looking for help reconciling the Sabbath with common observation?

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You really believe that the 10 commandments are not the Law? Do you really believe that there is no new covenant for believers? If the 10 commandments are the covenant, why do we need the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus?
The difference between the old and the new is Jesus... one was looking forward to a Messiah and had cerimonial laws that were a shadow. The new looks directly at the life of Jesus and sacrifice.
The moral law does not change.
The new is better because the blood of Jesus is better then the blood of animals.
But both are saved by faith.

Heb 8:10-11
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:
 
The difference between the old and the new is Jesus... one was looking forward to a Messiah and had cerimonial laws that were a shadow. The new looks directly at the life of Jesus and sacrifice.
The moral law does not change.
The new is better because the blood of Jesus is better then the blood of animals.
But both are saved by faith.

Heb 8:10-11
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:
"I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:"

Many don't believe that part. As if the moral laws of God are void.

Another way to look at,I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:, is.yo see that describing our Conscience.
 
the NT’s abolition texts (Col 2:16–17; Eph 2:15) use the standard Jewish triad — annual feasts, monthly new moons, and weekly Sabbaths — meaning the weekly day is included among the shadows fulfilled in Christ.
This is presumption.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Why did God put the 7th day sabbath in the 10 commandments and all the other sabbaths were given separately?
Why didn't God give the 4th commandment in the same way the other sabbath laws were given?

Why did God speak it and write it with the Ten commandments?
Are 9 of the 10 moral and the 4th one is different?
 
Nothing about the change of covenant means the creation week changed
God really did create in six days and rest on the seventh, and that historical fact stays exactly as scripture records it;
what did change is not creation, but covenant,
Because the seventh‑day sabbath was never given to humanity in Genesis,
Never commanded to Adam,
Never described as a weekly human practice,
And the first time the Sabbath is actually given to people is Exodus 16 and then formally in Exodus 31 as the sign of the Sinai covenant, which is why the apostles never impose it on Gentile believers;
The logic is is this,
Creation describes God’s rest,
Sinai commands Israel’s rest,
And the new covenant gives Christ’s rest (Heb 4),
So the question “show me where God created in any other amount of time” is a category mistake —
Creation week is history,
Sabbath command is covenant, and covenant signs change when covenants change;
The NT explicitly says the Sinai covenant is obsolete (Heb 8:13),
The priesthood has changed (Heb 7:12),
The law of commandments in ordinances has been set aside (Eph 2:15),
And Sabbaths are shadows whose substance is Christ (Col 2:16–17),
So affirming the literal six‑day creation does not require binding the Church to the Sinai sign — it only requires believing what Genesis actually says, and Genesis never says Adam kept a Sabbath or that the seventh day was commanded for all humanity.
God told Adam not to eat of the forbidden fruit. Adam and Eve did anyway. That was a sin because they broke God's command.
Where in scripture does it say God told Cain not to murder? If it does not then (back then) murder could not be a sin right?

"Sin is the transgression of the law."
"By the law is the knowledge of sin."
"Where no law is there can be no transgression."

I think I quoted those accurately enough from memory. I bet you know those verses.

Cain did no wrong killing Abel (or even giving the wrong offerings to God) unless there were explicit commands from God concerning those things. The bible records none.

Stating that the bible does not record a command to keep the sabbath day from Genesis until the Exodus is not proof THERE WAS NO SUCH COMMAND.

If there was no law before the flood then God was unjust killing off practically the entire human race. What sins did they commit? The bible does not say. It only says their imaginations were evil. How do you know good from evil without a God given directive?

Did Abraham sin when he told Pharaoh his wife was not wife but sister? Where is the command concerning adultery? Why was Pharaoh punished?
Why did Joseph reject Potiphar's wife? (Gen 39:9) It was a sin against God. Where from Adam to Joseph is that command?

Lack of evidence does not prove one way or the other whether the sabbath was binding on humanity before the Exodus or not.

"Your Honor. I walked into a dark room and smelled rotting dead meat. I think there's a body in there."
"Did you actually SEE the dead body?"
"No your Honor the room was dark..."
"In that case this court rules that there WAS IN FACT a dead body in that room that nobody ever saw."

RIIIIGHT.
 
God told Adam not to eat of the forbidden fruit. Adam and Eve did anyway. That was a sin because they broke God's command.
Where in scripture does it say God told Cain not to murder? If it does not then (back then) murder could not be a sin right?

"Sin is the transgression of the law."
"By the law is the knowledge of sin."
"Where no law is there can be no transgression."

I think I quoted those accurately enough from memory. I bet you know those verses.

Cain did no wrong killing Abel (or even giving the wrong offerings to God) unless there were explicit commands from God concerning those things. The bible records none.

Stating that the bible does not record a command to keep the sabbath day from Genesis until the Exodus is not proof THERE WAS NO SUCH COMMAND.

If there was no law before the flood then God was unjust killing off practically the entire human race. What sins did they commit? The bible does not say. It only says their imaginations were evil. How do you know good from evil without a God given directive?

Did Abraham sin when he told Pharaoh his wife was not wife but sister? Where is the command concerning adultery? Why was Pharaoh punished?
Why did Joseph reject Potiphar's wife? (Gen 39:9) It was a sin against God. Where from Adam to Joseph is that command?

Lack of evidence does not prove one way or the other whether the sabbath was binding on humanity before the Exodus or not.

"Your Honor. I walked into a dark room and smelled rotting dead meat. I think there's a body in there."
"Did you actually SEE the dead body?"
"No your Honor the room was dark..."
"In that case this court rules that there WAS IN FACT a dead body in that room that nobody ever saw."

RIIIIGHT.
It wasn't a Sin when Cain murdered Abel?
 
It wasn't a Sin when Cain murdered Abel?
Not if there was no law stating "Thou shalt not kill."
So why was it wrong for Cain to kill his brother?

There is no law stating "Thou shalt not make a wagon (or a wheel) to ease thy burdens upon the earth."
So it is not wrong to make a wheel (or a wagon) even though God cursed the ground and told Adam by the sweat of his brow he would earn his bread. Because there is no law stating "Don't do that."

If no law states adultery is wrong then God was wrong destroying those innocent lives in Sodom and Gomorrah....
 
Not if there was no law stating "Thou shalt not kill."
So why was it wrong for Cain to kill his brother?

There is no law stating "Thou shalt not make a wagon (or a wheel) to ease thy burdens upon the earth."
So it is not wrong to make a wheel (or a wagon) even though God cursed the ground and told Adam by the sweat of his brow he would earn his bread. Because there is no law stating "Don't do that."

If no law states adultery is wrong then God was wrong destroying those innocent lives in Sodom and Gomorrah....
“And now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. When you work the ground, it shall no longer yield to you its strength. You shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth” (Genesis 4:11-12).

You might want to read all of Genesis 4. And Genesis 26,as pertains to Abraham.
After the fall there was Sin. And knowledge of right and wrong.

The later Noahic Covenant made murder a capital offense.
 
This is presumption.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Why did God put the 7th day sabbath in the 10 commandments and all the other sabbaths were given separately?
Why didn't God give the 4th commandment in the same way the other sabbath laws were given?

Why did God speak it and write it with the Ten commandments?
Are 9 of the 10 moral and the 4th one is different?
The fourth commandment sits in the Ten not because it’s “moral” in a different way, but because the Sabbath is the covenant sign God stamped onto Israel’s identity under Moses (Ex 31:13–17).
The Torah itself never treats the weekly Sabbath as a separate species: Lev 23 groups weekly Sabbath, annual feasts, and special Sabbaths under one heading and uses the same vocabulary for all.
That’s why Paul’s triad — festival / new moon / sabbaths — is the standard Jewish formula covering annual / monthly / weekly observances; he isn’t presuming, he’s quoting the category.
God spoke the Sabbath in the Ten because it marked Israel’s relationship to Him, not because its calendar form was timeless moral law. The moral principle is rest and trust; the calendar shadow is fulfilled in Christ.
 
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A LOT Of CONFUSION ABOUT THE LAW OF CHRIST

"The law of Christ” is not presented in Scripture as a replacement law with a new numbered code. It refers to living according to all Christ commanded.

There is a lot of confusion about the expression “the law of Christ.” So let us keep this simple and look at what Scripture actually says.

The exact expression “law of Christ” appears only once in the New Testament:

“Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.” (Galatians 6:2)

James uses another similar expression to “law of Christ.” He speaks instead of the “royal law”:

“If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself,’ you do well.” (James 2:8)

James then immediately speaks about the commandments against adultery and murder. He does not say that the Ten Commandments were replaced.

So what does “the law of Christ” actually mean?

The answer is found by looking at Christ Himself. Jesus gave His followers commandments and told them to keep them:

“If you love Me, keep My commandments.” (John 14:15)

“He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.” (John 14:21)

Jesus commanded us to love God, love our neighbor, love our enemies, forgive, show mercy, do good, remain faithful, and do the will of the Father. He also directed the man who asked about eternal life to the commandments:

“If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17)

Therefore, if someone says, “I follow the law of Christ,” the biblical meaning is simply this:

I follow what Christ commanded me to keep.

That includes all the commandments Christ gave His disciples. It does not mean that Christ created a replacement law that cancels the Ten Commandments.

In fact, Jesus said:

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.” (Matthew 5:17)

“If you love Me, keep My commandments.” (John 14:15)

So the phrase “law of Christ” should never be used as a vague excuse to throw away God's commandments. If we want to know what the law of Christ is, we should simply ask: What did Christ command us to do?

His commandments are the things He gave us to keep.
 
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“And now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. When you work the ground, it shall no longer yield to you its strength. You shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth” (Genesis 4:11-12).

You might want to read all of Genesis 4. And Genesis 26,as pertains to Abraham.
After the fall there was Sin. And knowledge of right and wrong.

The later Noahic Covenant made murder a capital offense.
After the fall there was sin and knowledge of right from wrong? Do you think immoral sinful men were then capable of making their own moral laws?

And Cain lived BEFORE the Noahic covenant.
Which, of course, said nothing about murder. Just don't eat fat or drink blood if I remember correctly.
PLUS a promise to never destroy the world by flood again.

BTW; who sinned when Noah cursed Canaan? Noah for getting drunk or Ham for mocking his nak'd father? Where is the command from God for either of them?

Any time someone claims there was no law concerning the 7th day sabbath before the Exodus I am always reminded; there were no recorded laws concerning murder, theft, adultery, worshiping other Gods either....
 
God told Adam not to eat of the forbidden fruit. Adam and Eve did anyway. That was a sin because they broke God's command.
Where in scripture does it say God told Cain not to murder? If it does not then (back then) murder could not be a sin right?

"Sin is the transgression of the law."
"By the law is the knowledge of sin."
"Where no law is there can be no transgression."

I think I quoted those accurately enough from memory. I bet you know those verses.

Cain did no wrong killing Abel (or even giving the wrong offerings to God) unless there were explicit commands from God concerning those things. The bible records none.

Stating that the bible does not record a command to keep the sabbath day from Genesis until the Exodus is not proof THERE WAS NO SUCH COMMAND.

If there was no law before the flood then God was unjust killing off practically the entire human race. What sins did they commit? The bible does not say. It only says their imaginations were evil. How do you know good from evil without a God given directive?

Did Abraham sin when he told Pharaoh his wife was not wife but sister? Where is the command concerning adultery? Why was Pharaoh punished?
Why did Joseph reject Potiphar's wife? (Gen 39:9) It was a sin against God. Where from Adam to Joseph is that command?

Lack of evidence does not prove one way or the other whether the sabbath was binding on humanity before the Exodus or not.

"Your Honor. I walked into a dark room and smelled rotting dead meat. I think there's a body in there."
"Did you actually SEE the dead body?"
"No your Honor the room was dark..."
"In that case this court rules that there WAS IN FACT a dead body in that room that nobody ever saw."

RIIIIGHT.
You’re right that “lack of explicit command” doesn’t prove “no law at all”—but that cuts against your case, not for it.
Scripture clearly teaches pre‑Sinai moral accountability (Rom 2:14–15; 4:15):
Cain’s murder, Pharaoh’s adultery‑adjacent actions, the pre‑Flood world’s corruption—all condemned because God’s moral law is written on the heart, even before it’s codified at Sinai.
That’s exactly the point: moral law (don’t murder, don’t commit adultery, don’t lie) is universally binding and evident in Genesis; the Sabbath command is not.
Genesis never shows Adam, Cain, Noah, Abraham, or Joseph keeping a weekly seventh‑day; the first explicit giving of Sabbath as a commanded sign is to Israel in Exodus 16/31, and it is explicitly called the sign of that covenant (Ex 31:13–17), not of creation or of humanity in general.
So yes—there was real law before Sinai, but that proves the opposite of what you’re arguing: if Sabbath were part of that universal moral law, we’d expect it to appear in the same way murder, adultery, and deceit do in Genesis.
Instead, the NT treats Sabbath as a shadow (Col 2:16–17) and locates its substance in Christ’s rest (Heb 4), while continuing to condemn murder, adultery, and lying as direct violations of God’s moral will.
Your courtroom analogy fails because we do “see the body” for moral law in Genesis; we only “smell something” for Sabbath, and the text itself later identifies it as a covenant sign for Israel, not a creation ordinance for all.
 
The fourth commandment sits in the Ten not because it’s “moral” in a different way, but because the Sabbath is the covenant sign God stamped onto Israel’s identity under Moses (Ex 31:13–17).
The Torah itself never treats the weekly Sabbath as a separate species: Lev 23 groups weekly Sabbath, annual feasts, and special Sabbaths under one heading and uses the same vocabulary for all.
That’s why Paul’s triad — festival / new moon / sabbaths — is the standard Jewish formula covering annual / monthly / weekly observances; he isn’t presuming, he’s quoting the category.
God spoke the Sabbath in the Ten because it marked Israel’s relationship to Him, not because its calendar form was timeless moral law. The moral principle is rest and trust; the calendar shadow is fulfilled in Christ.
jesus says the sabbath was made for MAN , meaning for all mankind and we know from the book of revelations it will still be observed in the future, its not just for Israel but all peoples who were given to Christ, all his believers either Jew or gentiles.
 
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jesus says the sabbath was made for MAN , meaning for all mankind and we know from the book of revelations it will still be observed in the future, its not just for Israel but all peoples who were given to Christ, all his believers either Jew or gentiles.
“Made for man” in Mark 2:27 means the Sabbath was given for human good, not that it was a creation‑mandate for all humanity.
Jesus is correcting Pharisaic abuse of Israel’s covenant sign, not universalizing the Sinai command.
If “man = all mankind must keep Sabbath,” Paul cannot say one person esteems every day alike, cannot forbid judging over Sabbaths as shadows, and the apostles cannot omit Sabbath from Gentile requirements in Acts 15.
Revelation’s Sabbath imagery is symbolic temple language, just like altars, priests, incense, and lampstands—none of which reinstate Sinai law.
Genesis never commands Adam to keep Sabbath;
Exodus explicitly gives Sabbath for the first time as the sign of the Sinai covenant (Ex 31). “Made for man” = “made for Israel’s benefit,” not “binding on all believers for all time.”
 
you like to cause trouble by misquoting scripture and turning it against someone like you did here.

Did i ever say to follow the law of Moses? NO just the Ten commandments that GOD declared to be The Covenant. You know this because I have told you about 20 times already quoting the verese that proves it.

I am turning you off, I have no tome for this, I have waiting time with someone who rejects scripture.
Are Gentiles under two covenants or one covenant?

The ten commandments were given to Israel at Mt Sinai.

Here read the first commandment as written in Exodus 20.

Exodus 20:2-3
I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
You shall have no other gods before Me.

Were the Romans rescued from the land of Egypt?

You have a traditional (Catholic, Orthodox) interpretation of the scripture.

You are attempting to live under grace and law at the same time.

Your blending together two covenants into one covenant and that hybrid is not the new covenant of grace.
 
jesus says the sabbath was made for MAN , meaning for all mankind and we know from the book of revelations it will still be observed in the future, its not just for Israel but all peoples who were given to Christ, all his believers either Jew or gentiles.
The Sabbath commandment was law and the sabbath commandment carried the sentence of death for disobedience.

Obedience to the law cannot save anyone because the law does not grant righteousness.

The only law makes everyone aware of sin and it's ramifications.

Jesus said that your thoughts and actions will hold you accountable.

A simple commandment such as do not murder is weak and will not stop the raging nature of your heart against others.

You will call someone a fool or even think that thought and that is transgression of the law.

The law kills all and sundry as Paul stated in Romans 7.

Romans 7:5-6
For when we lived according to the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, bearing fruit
for death
. But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the law, so that we serve in the new way
of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code
.

The written law has already condemned you.
 
Who cares what Pagan nations had for calendars? Those guys worshiped bulls and fishes, goats and crocodiles, the sun and moon.
If you want to follow pagan beliefs then go ahead. Turn your back on the Creator of all things.
But don't try to convince a Christian that God did NOT create the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th day.
So now you don't need to be concerned with a 7 day weekly cycle because Horus says it's a 10 day cycle....

Even a child can see you have forsaken the Creator and chosen a mythological fantasy being as god.
You realize that the whole law was a shadow not the reality of our life in the Holy Spirit?
 
“Made for man” in Mark 2:27 means the Sabbath was given for human good, not that it was a creation‑mandate for all humanity.
Jesus is correcting Pharisaic abuse of Israel’s covenant sign, not universalizing the Sinai command.
If “man = all mankind must keep Sabbath,” Paul cannot say one person esteems every day alike, cannot forbid judging over Sabbaths as shadows, and the apostles cannot omit Sabbath from Gentile requirements in Acts 15.
Revelation’s Sabbath imagery is symbolic temple language, just like altars, priests, incense, and lampstands—none of which reinstate Sinai law.
Genesis never commands Adam to keep Sabbath;
Exodus explicitly gives Sabbath for the first time as the sign of the Sinai covenant (Ex 31). “Made for man” = “made for Israel’s benefit,” not “binding on all believers for all time.”
You have never read Exo 16 have you? OR 20:8-11

And BTW, why say the sabbath was given for HUMAN good out of one corner of your mouth while saying it is for the Jews only out the other side?
 
Are Gentiles under two covenants or one covenant?

The ten commandments were given to Israel at Mt Sinai.

Here read the first commandment as written in Exodus 20.

Exodus 20:2-3
I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
You shall have no other gods before Me.

Were the Romans rescued from the land of Egypt?

You have a traditional (Catholic, Orthodox) interpretation of the scripture.

You are attempting to live under grace and law at the same time.

Your blending together two covenants into one covenant and that hybrid is not the new covenant of grace.
Were YOU brought out of the land of Egypt?
Then why bother keeping even the 1st 3 of the 10?
You can have other gods if you wish.
You can make and worship graven images.
You can curse God.
Because you NEVER were brought out of Egypt those precepts do not apply to you?

The first part of Exo 20 is God introducing Himself. The rest are His commands.....

Living under grace does not make void the law? Do you really need the NT references for that?
No, keeping the law cannot save you . Only Jesus can do that if He wishes.
But certainly living a life of disobedience against God can condemn you. Because you refuse to follow Jesus, refuse to LET Him save you.
 
Who cares what Pagan nations had for calendars? Those guys worshiped bulls and fishes, goats and crocodiles, the sun and moon.
If you want to follow pagan beliefs then go ahead. Turn your back on the Creator of all things.
But don't try to convince a Christian that God did NOT create the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th day.
So now you don't need to be concerned with a 7 day weekly cycle because Horus says it's a 10 day cycle....

Even a child can see you have forsaken the Creator and chosen a mythological fantasy being as god.
Constantine introduced a seven day week to the Roman Empire.

This means a Roman citizen could never have practiced the sabbath day (the seventh day).

Because Roman citizens worked 7 days and the eighth day was a market day, not a day of rest.

Not until the fourth century and the decree of Constantine did Rome even have a seven day week.

If you contradict written history then your creating your own version of history.