looking for help reconciling the Sabbath with common observation?

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Davidstarr said:
Were YOU brought out of the land of Egypt?
Then why bother keeping even the 1st 3 of the 10?
You can have other gods if you wish.
You can make and worship graven images.
You can curse God.
Because you NEVER were brought out of Egypt those precepts do not apply to you?

The first part of Exo 20 is God introducing Himself. The rest are His commands.....

Living under grace does not make void the law? Do you really need the NT references for that?
No, keeping the law cannot save you . Only Jesus can do that if He wishes.
But certainly living a life of disobedience against God can condemn you. Because you refuse to follow Jesus, refuse to LET Him save you.
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Your still mixing two very different covenants one obsolete covenant and the new covenant of grace.

The Lord brought Israel out of Egypt and gave the law to Israel.

Your missing the most important point in the Exodus account.

Exodus 20:7
Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it to the people, who replied, “All that the LORD has spoken we will do,
and we will be obedient.”

Israel agreed to obey the law in the Book of the Covenant!

The Lord did not impose the ten commandments on Israel and say obey or die.

Israel agreed to obey the ten commandments.

The Lord did not ask Egypt to obey the Book of the Covenant.

Romans 9:3-4
For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my own flesh and blood,
the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory and the covenants; theirs the giving of the law,
the temple worship, and the promises.

The Gentile nations never had the law, the divine glory, the covenants, the temple, and the promises.

You folk are in serious trouble because you are Gentiles and Gentiles were not the covenant people.
 
TMS said:
The difference between the old and the new is Jesus... one was looking forward to a Messiah and had cerimonial laws that were a shadow. The new looks directly at the life of Jesus and sacrifice.
The moral law does not change.
The new is better because the blood of Jesus is better then the blood of animals.
But both are saved by faith.

Heb 8:10-11
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:
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The law of Christ was written in our hearts and minds.

That law was the law of love.

1 John 3:21-24
Beloved, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God, and we will receive from Him whatever we ask,
because we keep His commandments and do what is pleasing in His sight. And this is His commandment: that we should
believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and we should love one another just as He commanded us. Whoever keeps
His commandments remains in God, and God in him. And by this we know that He remains in us: by the Spirit He has given us.

Do you deny that Jesus gave us two new commandments?
 
Davidstarr said:
After the fall there was sin and knowledge of right from wrong? Do you think immoral sinful men were then capable of making their own moral laws?

And Cain lived BEFORE the Noahic covenant.
Which, of course, said nothing about murder. Just don't eat fat or drink blood if I remember correctly.
PLUS a promise to never destroy the world by flood again.

BTW; who sinned when Noah cursed Canaan? Noah for getting drunk or Ham for mocking his nak'd father? Where is the command from God for either of them?

Any time someone claims there was no law concerning the 7th day sabbath before the Exodus I am always reminded; there were no recorded laws concerning murder, theft, adultery, worshiping other Gods either....
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So,according to you, after Adam and Eve and the fall,there were no laws of God. Which means there was no such thing as Sin.

OK.
 
Inquisitor said:
Constantine introduced a seven day week to the Roman Empire.

This means a Roman citizen could never have practiced the sabbath day (the seventh day).

Because Roman citizens worked 7 days and the eighth day was a market day, not a day of rest.

Not until the fourth century and the decree of Constantine did Rome even have a seven day week.

If you contradict written history then your creating your own version of history.
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my question is when Rome switch from 8 day cycle to 7 day cycle, how did they start day 1, was their day1 match Hebrew calendar day 1?
 
Churchgoer said:
my question is when Rome switch from 8 day cycle to 7 day cycle, how did they start day 1, was their day1 match Hebrew calendar day 1?
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The day of the Sun was the first day apparently.

That is where we get the name Sunday for the first day of the week.

We have a Roman calendar with the Roman names for the days.

An interesting question.
 
Inquisitor said:
The day of the Sun was the first day apparently.

That is where we get the name Sunday for the first day of the week.

We have a Roman calendar with the Roman names for the days.

An interesting question.
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My point is sabbath day is the 7th day, as long as every 7th day, it is good and blessing to believers to observe.
 
Churchgoer said:
my question is when Rome switch from 8 day cycle to 7 day cycle, how did they start day 1, was their day1 match Hebrew calendar day 1?
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The Hebrew Calendar changed to a modern calendar in 359 AD.

Historical Standardization: In 359 C.E., Hillel II established a fixed mathematical and astronomical calendar to replace the older practice of sanctifying the new month based on direct eyewitness crescent moon sightings, but this formalization preserved the lunisolar system rather than changing it to a solar one.

So in the first century in Israel the new moon began each month.
 
Churchgoer said:
My point is sabbath day is the 7th day, as long as every 7th day, it is good and blessing to believers to observe.
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The sabbath law was given to Israel and not to the Romans.

The law condemns and that is the purpose of the written law.

The law simply announces you are dead in your sin.

The law prepares you for the approaching messiah.

There is only life in Jesus and that life is eternal.

The sabbath law cannot save anyone.
 
Freed18 said:
Absolutely.
But the OT sabbath keepers used the commandment to keep one day separate to free themselves from keeping the other days holy too.

It says nothing about worship.

What if he is retired ? Or sick ?
Or injured and can't work ?
Is he breaking a commandment from God if he heals instead of works 6 days ?

As a NT man, I rejoice in my freedoms from OT Laws that were only a shadow of the coming Christ, and life in Him.
OT...Keep one day holy-separate.
NT...Keep everyday holy and be separate from this world and its filth.
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Where did Jesus say he abolished the Sabbath?And instead we are to keep 7 days holy?
 
Inquisitor said:
The sabbath law was given to Israel and not to the Romans.

The law condemns and that is the purpose of the written law.

The law simply announces you are dead in your sin.

The law prepares you for the approaching messiah.

There is only life in Jesus and that life is eternal.

The sabbath law cannot save anyone.
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Agree sabbath law cannot save anyone.

But do you think it can bless people? Meaning make people s life better.

Such as eating healthy brings benefits. Regular convocation worship brings benefits.
 
Bible_Locket said:
Where did Jesus say he abolished the Sabbath?And instead we are to keep 7 days holy?
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Why not keep everyday holy, instead of limiting it to just one day ?
Jesus said..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
Is God holy on only one day per week ?
 
Inquisitor said:
Constantine introduced a seven day week to the Roman Empire.

This means a Roman citizen could never have practiced the sabbath day (the seventh day).

Because Roman citizens worked 7 days and the eighth day was a market day, not a day of rest.

Not until the fourth century and the decree of Constantine did Rome even have a seven day week.

If you contradict written history then your creating your own version of history.
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I haven't contradicted written history.
I said I don't care what pagan nations believed or practiced.

I'm surprised you are not arguing that we need to throw our first born to Chemosh now. Or to celebrate the fertility rites of Astarte.
Since you are arguing against the 7th day sabbath by using pagan values and beliefs....

Pagan rites and beliefs have nothing to do with Judaism or true Christianity.
You are arguing in support of Constantine's Sunday law from March 7, 321AD. A pagan day of rest that eventually infiltrated Catholicism and supplanted God's 7th day sabbath in 363AD (Canon 29 - Council of Laodicea).
Without absolutely no biblical authority.

All you have are the stone idols that can't turn a handful of dust into a mouse.....
The Creator has been forsaken and people are being to taught THAT'S OK to do.
 
Bible_Locket said:
So,according to you, after Adam and Eve and the fall,there were no laws of God. Which means there was no such thing as Sin.

OK.
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No "biblical" evidence.
Of course we know those things are sin. Now, tomorrow, and in times past; even before the flood.

I'm saying lack of biblical evidence does not mean those moral laws were not known and practiced and HAD to have been given by God.
This would include all 10 commandments.
I could point to 9 (excluding the sabbath commandment) and I bet you would agree. Breaking those is sin. But add the 4th, the ONLY one of the 9 that actually IDs which Gad gave this law) and now people want to get rid of all 10 commandments.....
Just to take the Creator out of His own law?

What else could that be called but anarchy, lawlessness, following the man of lawlessness?
 
Inquisitor said:
Your still mixing two very different covenants one obsolete covenant and the new covenant of grace.

The Lord brought Israel out of Egypt and gave the law to Israel.

Your missing the most important point in the Exodus account.

Exodus 20:7
Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it to the people, who replied, “All that the LORD has spoken we will do,
and we will be obedient.”

Israel agreed to obey the law in the Book of the Covenant!

The Lord did not impose the ten commandments on Israel and say obey or die.

Israel agreed to obey the ten commandments.

The Lord did not ask Egypt to obey the Book of the Covenant.

Romans 9:3-4
For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my own flesh and blood,
the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory and the covenants; theirs the giving of the law,
the temple worship, and the promises.

The Gentile nations never had the law, the divine glory, the covenants, the temple, and the promises.

You folk are in serious trouble because you are Gentiles and Gentiles were not the covenant people.
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Would you like a list (partial list - not all inclusive) of the principles of the 10 commandments known and practiced by the patriarchs in the OT before God wrote them down on stone at Mt. Sinai? Save for the 3rd. Nobody knew God's name before the burning bush.So how could His name be taken in vain?

What about a list from the NT showing the same things known and practiced by the apostles and early Christians?
Including the 4th sabbath commandment.?

My guess you will decline. You don't want to know. Such things go against your personal beliefs and denominational training....
 
Besides creation week, the very 1st time God mentioned sabbath day, the 7th day is telling Moses about picking manna.
Can it be possible day 1 is manna day 1?
 
Inquisitor said:
Your still mixing two very different covenants one obsolete covenant and the new covenant of grace.

The Lord brought Israel out of Egypt and gave the law to Israel.

Your missing the most important point in the Exodus account.

Exodus 20:7
Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it to the people, who replied, “All that the LORD has spoken we will do,
and we will be obedient.”

Israel agreed to obey the law in the Book of the Covenant!

The Lord did not impose the ten commandments on Israel and say obey or die.

Israel agreed to obey the ten commandments.

The Lord did not ask Egypt to obey the Book of the Covenant.

Romans 9:3-4
For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my own flesh and blood,
the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory and the covenants; theirs the giving of the law,
the temple worship, and the promises.

The Gentile nations never had the law, the divine glory, the covenants, the temple, and the promises.
Click to expand...

Inquisitor said:
You folk are in serious trouble because you are Gentiles and Gentiles were not the covenant people.
Click to expand...
You are so wrong in so many ways.
 
Davidstarr said:
No "biblical" evidence.
Of course we know those things are sin. Now, tomorrow, and in times past; even before the flood.

I'm saying lack of biblical evidence does not mean those moral laws were not known and practiced and HAD to have been given by God.
This would include all 10 commandments.
I could point to 9 (excluding the sabbath commandment) and I bet you would agree. Breaking those is sin. But add the 4th, the ONLY one of the 9 that actually IDs which Gad gave this law) and now people want to get rid of all 10 commandments.....
Just to take the Creator out of His own law?

What else could that be called but anarchy, lawlessness, following the man of lawlessness?
Click to expand...
You aren't being consistent with your post 170.
 
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