You have in common beliefs from Semi-Arians and JWs, both of which are heretics.
looking for help reconciling the Sabbath with common observation?
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Paul commanded this in Heb 4:1-11
Verses 4-10 show the text is talking about the 7th day that God rested from His works.
Verse 11 tells us to "labour" to enter into that rest or fall into unbelief.....
Taking any verses out of the context is not a good idea. It changes the meanings of those verses into anything anyone WANTS them to say.
Thought I'd chime in. While you are correct, there isn't a direct command from Jesus that explicitly says the words to keep the sabbath, we do have this:
This was during the time Christ was arguing with the Pharisees about what is lawful on the sabbath. He counters with what David did which was technically breaking the law, but Christs response was essentially, God makes special circumstances depending on context. Like His disciples plucking grain to eat, and David eating the showbread.
But the fact that He calls himself "Lord" of the Sabbath makes it so much deeper than just the idea of Christ having to explicitly state verbatim to keep it. That carries an implied expectation that the Sabbath is still something His followers are meant to recognize. You do not normally establish yourself as Lord over something in order to make that thing meaningless or something you no longer have to do.
Then people are going to have to decide who they are going to follow, the Lord or man.
That was good. All chalked up to "believe me bro, because we don't have an answer".
I agree, Paul mentions in passing that God rested on the Seventh day, but isn't Paul speaking of a Sabbath that is yet to be instituted?
I proved it already so lets leave it there. Jesus taught the sabbath, how to keep it and kept it so did the disciples and Paul so why wont you?
Here we go with affixing labels to People and calling them bad......
I see what you are saying. What Jesus said about being the Lord of the Sabbath is what his disciples would teach people during the Great Commission. It is just as important for Gentiles as it is for Jews to know that Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. This knowledge benefits all of his disciples.
But the claim in this thread is that since Jesus taught his disciples to rest every seventh day of the week, then all of his disciples should rest every seventh day of the week including Gentile disciples. This question can only be answered by searching the teachings of Jesus to see, if indeed, he DID teach people to Obey the fourth commandment. So far, I can't find that verse.
All I can do is take a page from Paul's teaching, where he said that if someone intends to serve the Lord by obeying the Fourth Commandment, then he or she should do that. It is always right, good, and preferable to serve the Lord, and no one should be discouraged from serving the Lord. (I'm paraphrasing from Romans 14:5-6)
But if the question is "what does the Bible say,?" I am compelled to convey what I think the Bible is actually saying. Thus, my question is strictly an exegetical one. Did Jesus actually teach it or not?
I didn't affix a label to any person. I did so to religious systems. Calling out heresy is important.Here we go with affixing labels to People and calling them bad......
I think though that there is danger to attribute Romans 14 based on whatever context people want because people point to that verse too to say the sabbath is Sunday, not Saturday. There's multiple context to ONE single verse that it turns scripture into "I can just apply this to whatever I want because on the surface it seems to fit" and then argue Christ never explicitly stated we couldn't worship on Sunday, so why does it matter? You see where I'm going with this?I see what you are saying. What Jesus said about being the Lord of the Sabbath is what his disciples would teach people during the Great Commission. It is just as important for Gentiles as it is for Jews to know that Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. This knowledge benefits all of his disciples.
But the claim in this thread is that since Jesus taught his disciples to rest every seventh day of the week, then all of his disciples should rest every seventh day of the week including Gentile disciples. This question can only be answered by searching the teachings of Jesus to see, if indeed, he DID teach people to Obey the fourth commandment. So far, I can't find that verse.
All I can do is take a page from Paul's teaching, where he said that if someone intends to serve the Lord by obeying the Fourth Commandment, then he or she should do that. It is always right, good, and preferable to serve the Lord, and no one should be discouraged from serving the Lord. (I'm paraphrasing from Romans 14:5-6)
But if the question is "what does the Bible say,?" I am compelled to convey what I think the Bible is actually saying. Thus, my question is strictly an exegetical one. Did Jesus actually teach it or not?
The context of Romans 14 is what? It can be chalked up to verse 4:
That's not saying that everyone is right and it doesn't matter, or now the context is different so who cares what people eat or what day they attribute to which is more holy, it's saying stop squabbling because at the end of the day, God is going to judge, so let God handle it.
So essentially, that's not a change or alteration of ANYTHING. But people sure do like to point that as an argument saying scripture says they're allowed to do XYZ as if it doesn't matter... but thats not the context of what Paul is talking about. There IS a right and wrong answer... and at the end of our life, we will account to God for what we do. That's the basis for Romans 14.
Your questions have been answered. And WITH biblical references.I see what you are saying. What Jesus said about being the Lord of the Sabbath is what his disciples would teach people during the Great Commission. It is just as important for Gentiles as it is for Jews to know that Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. This knowledge benefits all of his disciples.
But the claim in this thread is that since Jesus taught his disciples to rest every seventh day of the week, then all of his disciples should rest every seventh day of the week including Gentile disciples. This question can only be answered by searching the teachings of Jesus to see, if indeed, he DID teach people to Obey the fourth commandment. So far, I can't find that verse.
All I can do is take a page from Paul's teaching, where he said that if someone intends to serve the Lord by obeying the Fourth Commandment, then he or she should do that. It is always right, good, and preferable to serve the Lord, and no one should be discouraged from serving the Lord. (I'm paraphrasing from Romans 14:5-6)
But if the question is "what does the Bible say,?" I am compelled to convey what I think the Bible is actually saying. Thus, my question is strictly an exegetical one. Did Jesus actually teach it or not?
So why do you keep asking the same questions over and over again?
It's obvious, you don't want to accept what the bible says on the subject. It's easier to follow the denominational teachings of your chosen leaders and the church theologies you adhere to.
That becomes sola doctrina and not sola scriptura.
Sadly the amount of people who stick to doctrinal beliefs with intense loyalty is... a lot..... It can be it's own cult and people don't recognize it.
Do you believe one can be saved following the wisdom and traditions of men?
I sure hope you know God's Word better than to believe that.
So far, you haven't answered the question. Where in the Bible does Jesus teach his disciples to keep the Fourth Commandment? No one has provided a scripture where he commands it.
And Aren't you exaggerating a bit here? I only asked two people the question and only once each.
Are you just saying that or do you really think I have made it obvious that I don't want to accept what the Bible says on the subject?
But I don't have a denomination. Sorry to burst your bubble like that.
I call it Bible Study. And I have two main assumptions: 1) The Bible contains no errors, and 2) The Bible means what the author meant to say.
Thus, it always comes down to showing each other what the Bible actually says.