looking for help reconciling the Sabbath with common observation?

[Inquisitor]

made choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Peter was the head of the church to the gentiles not Paul.

That is incorrect.

Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles.

Peter was the apostle to the Jews.

Galatians 2:9
And recognizing the grace that I had been given, James, Cephas, and John, those reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas
the right hand of fellowship, so that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised.

 

[Delvianna]

That is incorrect.

Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles.

Peter was the apostle to the Jews.

Galatians 2:9
And recognizing the grace that I had been given, James, Cephas, and John, those reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas
the right hand of fellowship, so that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised.

Actually it was Peter.

And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” - Matthew 16:18-19

That's why Christ specifically said to Peter 3 times to feed His sheep and strengthen his brothers.

Also, Paul was an apostle to the Jews too.

Acts 9:15 — Jesus says of Paul:

“He is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.”

 

[Inquisitor]

you certainly don't keep the testimony of Jesus since you reject firmly what he said. the sabbath is part of the commandments and we have text saying to keep them throughout the bible.

Here is where you are seriously wrong.

Israel was in covenant to obey the law given in Exodus 20 and that is not my opinion.

In the New Testament it states that we are in a new covenant.

2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the
Spirit gives life.

Are you in the new covenant or the old covenant; the letter of the law, i.e., Exodus 20?

 

[ScooterJackson]

So far, you haven't answered the question. Where in the Bible does Jesus teach his disciples to keep the Fourth Commandment? No one has provided a scripture where he commands it.

The Lord never didn't which is why they get so upset because they are trying to spin God's Word to make it seem like He did as best they can. This is why these people are so grumpy all the time.

I asked first. Answer the question.

No, I do not believe one can be saved following the wisdom and traditions of men.
God's Word teaches that the wisdom and traditions of men is of the devil and not of the Lord.

So, do you believe one can be saved following the wisdom and traditions of men?
I asked second. Answer the question.

 

[JohnDB]

That was good. All chalked up to "believe me bro, because we don't have an answer".

Well....your beliefs were listed in the mix as heresy.
Just saying.

 

[ScooterJackson]

Well....your beliefs were listed in the mix as heresy.

Uh oh, the H word has been deployed!

 

[Delvianna]

Well....your beliefs were listed in the mix as heresy.
Just saying.

I never defined how I defined Christ and The Father. All I said was duality. So if you're taking that and applying assumptions as to how I define a duality specifically, that's completely on you if you think I stand anywhere in that video.

Not to mention I really don't care what people think is a "heresy". Broad is the gate that leads to destruction and the vast majority of doctrine fits in that broad gate. The Pharisees thought Jesus was a heretic too. Not saying I'm in the same league as Christ, but just that the verbal attack just doesn't register for me. It's used as a form to push people into doctrinal compliance and I just don't subscribe to the hive mind narrative.

 

[Inquisitor]

The "doctrine" of Moses was more concerned with animal sacrifices, temple services, feast days, yearly holy days. Patterns/types/symbols for the coming of Jesus.
Jesus gave the 10 commandments from Mt. Sinai and wrote them on tablets of stone Himself.
He even spoke the words out loud from the top of the mount for all the people to hear.

Moses was given instructions for the temple and sacrifices, etc. the SECOND time he went up into the mount.
And he wrote those things in a book which the bible calls the "handwriting of ordinances".

Two separate laws.

It is important to note that Exodus 24 specifies the book of the covenant (the whole law).

There is no subdivision in the law in Exodus 24.

Exodus 24:6:7
Moses took half of the blood and put it in bowls, and the other half he splattered on the altar. Then he took the Book
of the Covenant and read it to the people, who replied, “All that the LORD has spoken we will do, and we will be obedient.”

The Book of the Covenant was only given to the nation of Israel.

That is what the text states.

I don't know where you got the idea that YHWH made a covenant with any Gentile nation based on the Book of the Covenant.

 

[2Christ]

I see what you are saying. What Jesus said about being the Lord of the Sabbath is what his disciples would teach people during the Great Commission. It is just as important for Gentiles as it is for Jews to know that Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. This knowledge benefits all of his disciples.

But the claim in this thread is that since Jesus taught his disciples to rest every seventh day of the week, then all of his disciples should rest every seventh day of the week including Gentile disciples. This question can only be answered by searching the teachings of Jesus to see, if indeed, he DID teach people to Obey the fourth commandment. So far, I can't find that verse.

All I can do is take a page from Paul's teaching, where he said that if someone intends to serve the Lord by obeying the Fourth Commandment, then he or she should do that. It is always right, good, and preferable to serve the Lord, and no one should be discouraged from serving the Lord. (I'm paraphrasing from Romans 14:5-6)

But if the question is "what does the Bible say,?" I am compelled to convey what I think the Bible is actually saying. Thus, my question is strictly an exegetical one. Did Jesus actually teach it or not?

yes he did teach it but you want to see written for every commandments what you are looking for if a verse that id from Jesus saying [Remember the sabbath day and keep it keep it], well newsflash : He did when he said to enter into life to keep THE commandment(s) note here plural... the commandment Jesus spoke of are the Ten commandment(s) = the Covenant. The sabbat is listed on the list of the Ten commandments and is forever But like I said before we all have to make a choice God gives this choice;

The Choice of Life and Death​

Deu 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not too hard for thee, neither is it far off.

Deu 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it?

Deu 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it?

Deu 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Deu 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

Deu 30:16 in that I command thee this day to love Jehovah thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his ordinances, that thou mayest live and multiply, and that Jehovah thy God may bless thee in the land whither thou goest in to possess it.

Deu 30:17 But if thy heart turn away, and thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;

Deu 30:18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish; ye shall not prolong your days in the land, whither thou passest over the Jordan to go in to possess it.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before thee life and death, the blessing and the curse: therefore choose life, that thou mayest live, thou and thy seed;

Deu 30:20 to love Jehovah thy God, to obey his voice, and to cleave unto him; for he is thy life, and the length of thy days; that thou mayest dwell in the land which Jehovah sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Yes God gives a choice.

 

[Inquisitor]

I said it commands a 6-day work week with a day of rest on the 7th day.

You got that right.

Israel by law was commanded to rest on the seventh day.

No one needs to go any where in Israel on the rest day you can stay home and put your feet up.

For an Israelite that is perfect obedience to the sabbath commandment.

 

[ScooterJackson]

For an Israelite that is perfect obedience to the sabbath commandment.

Which won't result in them being saved as they'll all go to hell if they don't get born again and accept the New Covenant that the Lord foretold He would make with Israel

The sabbatarians seem to think those who do not observe Saturday sabbath will go to hell.

 

[Inquisitor]

KJV is English. Translated directly from the original languages.

All other English versions (as far as I know) are translations of translations of...ad infinitum.

The KJV was not started from a blank page. King James instructed the 47 scholars to use the 1602 edition of the Bishops' Bible
as their base, modifying it only when the original languages demanded a correction. The translators heavily relied on earlier
English versions, especially the Tyndale Bible, the Geneva Bible, and the Coverdale Bible. [1, 2, 3, 4]

While the Latin Vulgate was not the main source text, the translators did consult it—along with the Catholic Douai-Reims Bible—
for stylistic phrasing, sentence structure, or when dealing with obscure, ambiguous, or damaged passages in the original Greek
and Hebrew manuscripts. (AI)

To say that the KJV was directly translated from the original languages is dead wrong.

Where are you getting your information from?

 

[Delvianna]

There is no scripture that says anyone of the laws or commands are null and void. "Fulfillment" is different than abolishment which would say it's null and void.

Old Covenant - Written on Stone
New Covenant - Written on your hearts

But the laws/rules weren't ever changed. Christ CONSTANTLY quoted the old testament and EXPANDED on the law. If He was making the law void, why even bring it up? Makes no sense.

It comes down to this: Do you love God or are you just looking for a cheat sheet on how to get to heaven with the LEAST amount of effort possible because heaven is what matters to you and not actually God (as a person)?

If God loves His feast days why not celebrate them? They are remembrance for Christ and how God handles humanity and Gods love for us, why are people so against it but will celebrate Christmas and Easter which are pagan holidays? And don't even get me started on Halloween...

Why is taking a day of rest to spend with God such a problem? Why the rejection of it? You really think of God that little that you're actively arguing against spending time with Him?

The first commandment and the most important even quoted by Christ : Love the Lord with all your heart, soul and mind.

Is this what love is? "I don't have to"?

 

[Inquisitor]

Roger you are in denial and try to get out of it and keep ypur old doctrine of men that you are accustomed to. Jesus spoke of all 10 commandments and explained the meaning of them all you can find a list of his teachings on the internet. and Yes also about the sabbath, so why do you say he did not? Jesus Magnified the law. why are you so ignorant of what Jesus was teaching, must I find all the verses for you? about john of course you have to keep faith in him always do I need to me mentioned its so obvious. faith is essential I would even say a complete faith to a degree that our lives depend on it and it does. On out own we are nothing and we must Follow Jesus and Obey him not for salvation but because we live him.

Seriously please go back to these books Matt, Luke, MArk and John and see for yourself.

to help you out here is a list that you can consult I found it in 2 seconds on the internet. Jesus spoke of all ten.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
   (Matthew 4:10; Matthew 6:24)
2. You shall not make for yourself a carved image; you shall not bow down to them or serve them.
   (Matthew 4:10; John 4:23–24)
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
   (Matthew 5:33–37; Matthew 6:9)
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
   (Mark 2:27–28; Matthew 12:8; Luke 4:16; Luke 6:9)
5. Honor your father and your mother.
   (Matthew 15:4–6; Matthew 19:19; Mark 7:10–13)
6. You shall not murder.
   (Matthew 5:21–22; Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19)
7. You shall not commit adultery.
   (Matthew 5:27–28; Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19)
8. You shall not steal.
   (Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20)
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
   (Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19)
10. You shall not covet.
    (Luke 12:15; Matthew 6:19–21; Matthew 19:21–24)

Jesus said if you love me keep the Commandments its that simple.

One important point is that Jesus did not simply repeat all ten commandments word-for-word. In several cases, as mentionned, He went deeper into their meaning. For example, He took “You shall not murder” and taught that hatred and unjust anger violate the spirit of that command (Matthew 5:21–22), and He took “You shall not commit adultery” and showed that lustful intent also violates it (Matthew 5:27–28).

You can deny the sabbath all you want but its linked forever to the ten Commandments jesus was teaching anf they are the Covenant, If you love God/Jesus you will follow it..

On this i wish you a good night. i am off for today.

Jesus was sent only to Israel.

Jesus was talking to the Jews about the Book of the Covenant.

Jesus near the end went on to establish a new covenant with the disciples.

Luke 22:20
And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant
in My blood".

Are you in the new covenant or are you a Jew living under the old covenant?

 

[Inquisitor]

Which won't result in them being saved as they'll all go to hell if they don't get born again and accept the New Covenant that the Lord foretold He would make with Israel

The sabbatarians seem to think those who do not observe Saturday sabbath will go to hell.

They don't understand the difference between the old covenant and the new covenant.

I don't think they even recognize the concept of a covenant.

One covenant was sealed with the blood of an oxen and the other was sealed with the blood of Jesus.

They seem to strictly adhere to the Book of the Covenant sealed with the blood of oxen.

 

[ScooterJackson]

Jesus was talking to the Jews about the Book of the Covenant.

That's not true according to Jesus:

In Luke 16:16 the Lord says: "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

According to the Lord the law and the prophets stopped being taught to man when John the Baptist came on the scene which is when the Gospel of the Kingdom began to be preached which is the New Covenant.

 

[JohnDB]

I never defined how I defined Christ and The Father. All I said was duality. So if you're taking that and applying assumptions as to how I define a duality specifically, that's completely on you if you think I stand anywhere in that video.

Not to mention I really don't care what people think is a "heresy". Broad is the gate that leads to destruction and the vast majority of doctrine fits in that broad gate. The Pharisees thought Jesus was a heretic too. Not saying I'm in the same league as Christ, but just that the verbal attack just doesn't register for me. It's used as a form to push people into doctrinal compliance and I just don't subscribe to the hive mind narrative.

Don't take what I've said so far so seriously....I'm certainly not going to.

And it's a cartoon voiced over....not even in the original voice which described Pantheism as well as several versions of modalism.

The trinity, while belief in all three being divine and separate is necessary to be Christian as Jesus declared them to be with the three names people were to be baptized in.
And usually if people cut short one of the three from divinity it's usually Jesus....which I'm going to take exception to because then it's just a sect of Judaism
(which ultimately Christianity is but Judaism in practice is without a messiah)

And YOU have stated that you believe in the Divinity of Jesus....just not the Holy Spirit (which I find odd...but whatever...I'm not here to Judge....just talk)
But I am interested if you claim to understand the trinity when the rest of us only claim a poor apprehension of the Trinity. (We can say the words with meanings but do not understand their precise application or fullness)
The THREE are ONE .

One in purpose, one in goals, one in unity, one in perfection, three in definition. Plural in majesty. It's not Eloh....it's Elohim. Like Cherub/cherubim
Seraph/Seraphim.

 

[Inquisitor]

Actually it was Peter.


That's why Christ specifically said to Peter 3 times to feed His sheep and strengthen his brothers.

Also, Paul was an apostle to the Jews too.

Acts 9:15 — Jesus says of Paul:

In your interpretation of the N.T are you saying that Paul was wrong?

Galatians 2:9
And recognizing the grace that I had been given, James, Cephas, and John, those reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas
the right hand of fellowship, so that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised.

Paul in the book of Acts went to both Jews and Gentiles but in Acts 18 finally rejects the Jews, then solely goes to the Gentiles.

Acts 18:4-6
Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks alike. And when Silas and Timothy came
down from Macedonia, Paul devoted himself fully to the word, testifying to the Jews that Jesus is the Christ. But when they
opposed and insulted him, he shook out his garments and told them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent of it.
From now on I will go to the Gentiles.”

That is a big call you made and I hope you can back up your claim.

 

[JohnDB]

There is no scripture that says anyone of the laws or commands are null and void. "Fulfillment" is different than abolishment which would say it's null and void.

Old Covenant - Written on Stone
New Covenant - Written on your hearts

But the laws/rules weren't ever changed. Christ CONSTANTLY quoted the old testament and EXPANDED on the law. If He was making the law void, why even bring it up? Makes no sense.

It comes down to this: Do you love God or are you just looking for a cheat sheet on how to get to heaven with the LEAST amount of effort possible because heaven is what matters to you and not actually God (as a person)?

If God loves His feast days why not celebrate them? They are remembrance for Christ and how God handles humanity and Gods love for us, why are people so against it but will celebrate Christmas and Easter which are pagan holidays? And don't even get me started on Halloween...

Why is taking a day of rest to spend with God such a problem? Why the rejection of it? You really think of God that little that you're actively arguing against spending time with Him?

The first commandment and the most important even quoted by Christ : Love the Lord with all your heart, soul and mind.

Is this what love is? "I don't have to"?

He kept 2 of the Laws of Moses....not a very long list. Because God is immutable (never changes)

So we are to keep these two laws today as well as the rest of the commandments of Jesus that he specifically gave.

1)Love God with all your H.M.S.
2)Love your neighbor as yourself.
(Meaning as well to get to know what your neighbor actually likes and does before showing them lovingkindness)

 

[ScooterJackson]

The trinity, while belief in all three being divine and separate is necessary to be Christian

The Lord said in His Word that the Three are ONE

1 John 5:7 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are One.

1 John 5:8 - And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one