looking for help reconciling the Sabbath with common observation?

[Davidstarr]

You said that the death penalty did not apply to ceremonial law.

Here is what AI has to say about the absence of the death penalty in the ceremonial law.

While theologians usually classify kidnapping as a civil/moral crime and sexual offenses as moral/purity laws rather than strictly "ceremonial," the text of the Pentateuch groups many of these together under the banner of maintaining holiness and preventing the spiritual defilement of the community.

1. Capital Sexual Offenses
In the Levitical "Holiness Code" (specifically Leviticus 20 and Deuteronomy 22), several sexual acts were punishable by execution (usually by stoning or, in rare cases, burning):

• Adultery: Sex between a married (or betrothed) woman and a man who is not her husband resulted in the death of both parties (Leviticus 20:10, Deuteronomy 22:22).
• Incest: Specific incestuous relationships—such as a man sleeping with his father's wife, his daughter-in-law, or a woman and her mother—carried the death penalty (Leviticus 20:11–12, 14).
• Bestiality: Having sexual relations with an animal resulted in the execution of both the person and the animal (Leviticus 20:15–16).
• Homosexual acts: Sexual relations between two men carried the death penalty (Leviticus 20:13).
• Rape of a betrothed woman: If a man forced himself on a betrothed woman in an isolated area (where her cries could not be heard), the man alone was executed (Deuteronomy 22:25).
• Prostitution by a priest's daughter: If a priest’s daughter defiled herself by turning to prostitution, she was to be burned to death because she profaned her father’s holy office (Leviticus 21:9).

2. Sorcery and the Occult
Sorcery was viewed as a direct, treasonous rejection of God's sovereign authority and a defilement of the camp's spiritual purity:

• Practising Sorcery: Exodus 22:18 explicitly states, "Do not allow a sorceress to live."
• Mediums and Spiritists: Anyone who acted as a medium or consulted the dead was to be put to death by stoning (Leviticus 20:27).

3. Kidnapping (Man-Stealing)
Kidnapping was treated as a severe civil and moral capital offense, comparable to murder because it completely stole a person's life and freedom:

• The Law on Kidnapping: Exodus 21:16 states, "Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession." Deuteronomy 24:7 narrows this to the kidnapping of a fellow Israelite for slavery or profit.

End AI.

I have told you many times that kidnapping and sorcery are both ordinances that carry a death penalty.

You are wrong and you cannot even admit your error.

Promiscuousness is covered in the "Thou halt not commit adultery" precept.
Practicing sorcery and talking to dead spirits falls under worshiping other God's.
Stealing, of course, is also one of the 10 commandments.

These were not ceremonial laws. They were moral laws. Parts of the 10 commandments.

There was no death sentence given if one did not observe the Jewish holidays, or forget to offer an animal for redemption of sin.
Show the command where one must die if he is not circumcised? You can't. there is no such law.

Again you are confusing the 10 commandment law, written by God on tablets of stone, with the ceremonial law written by Moses in a book.

BTW if you think murder, theft, adultery, worshiping spirits were only commands given to the Jews then you must think it is OK for Christians to do such things.

 

[TMS]

You said that the death penalty did not apply to ceremonial law.

Here is what AI has to say about the absence of the death penalty in the ceremonial law.

While theologians usually classify kidnapping as a civil/moral crime and sexual offenses as moral/purity laws rather than strictly "ceremonial," the text of the Pentateuch groups many of these together under the banner of maintaining holiness and preventing the spiritual defilement of the community.

1. Capital Sexual Offenses
In the Levitical "Holiness Code" (specifically Leviticus 20 and Deuteronomy 22), several sexual acts were punishable by execution (usually by stoning or, in rare cases, burning):

• Adultery: Sex between a married (or betrothed) woman and a man who is not her husband resulted in the death of both parties (Leviticus 20:10, Deuteronomy 22:22).
• Incest: Specific incestuous relationships—such as a man sleeping with his father's wife, his daughter-in-law, or a woman and her mother—carried the death penalty (Leviticus 20:11–12, 14).
• Bestiality: Having sexual relations with an animal resulted in the execution of both the person and the animal (Leviticus 20:15–16).
• Homosexual acts: Sexual relations between two men carried the death penalty (Leviticus 20:13).
• Rape of a betrothed woman: If a man forced himself on a betrothed woman in an isolated area (where her cries could not be heard), the man alone was executed (Deuteronomy 22:25).
• Prostitution by a priest's daughter: If a priest’s daughter defiled herself by turning to prostitution, she was to be burned to death because she profaned her father’s holy office (Leviticus 21:9).

2. Sorcery and the Occult
Sorcery was viewed as a direct, treasonous rejection of God's sovereign authority and a defilement of the camp's spiritual purity:

• Practising Sorcery: Exodus 22:18 explicitly states, "Do not allow a sorceress to live."
• Mediums and Spiritists: Anyone who acted as a medium or consulted the dead was to be put to death by stoning (Leviticus 20:27).

3. Kidnapping (Man-Stealing)
Kidnapping was treated as a severe civil and moral capital offense, comparable to murder because it completely stole a person's life and freedom:

• The Law on Kidnapping: Exodus 21:16 states, "Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession." Deuteronomy 24:7 narrows this to the kidnapping of a fellow Israelite for slavery or profit.

End AI.

I have told you many times that kidnapping and sorcery are both ordinances that carry a death penalty.

You are wrong and you cannot even admit your error.

The broadness of the 10 commandments includes these sins.

Sexual sins under the command of adultery. Includes lusting...

Mat 5:27-28
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

And coveting is broad. Coveting what is not given to us by God.

And having another god in the place of The Lord is the first commandment.
If you make anything more important then God then it is your idol. Computer games, drugs, sexual lusts, money. If these become your god....
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Sorcery is breaking the first the 3rd, it was stealing, lying and killing. So to say it was not breaking any of the 10 is your blindness.

Kidnapping = Exo 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.

The 10 are much broader the you think.

 

[TMS]

Genesis never calls the Sabbath a law before the fall; it simply says God rested and blessed the seventh day (Gen 2:3).
There is no command to Adam and Eve to keep a Sabbath, no prohibition, no penalty, no covenant sign — the first time Sabbath becomes a command is Exodus 16, and the first time it becomes a sign is Exodus 31:13–17,

There was no command about adultery or murder or stealing or lying in those first chapters but this does not mean it was not a moral law.

When was the sabbath made for man?

Because it is not recorded does not mean God made it known.

Cain would be free from guilt
Joseph would have committed adultery without any guilt.
Abraham would not have said obeyed
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

It is a clear error to say because the command isn't recorded it did not exist.

The are so many examples of people sinning and transgressing the 10 commandments, they must have known.

God wrote the law down after there time in Egypt so that they wouldnt forgotten them again.

God knew that the time would come for the shadow laws to pass away. God knew that type would meet antitype in the future.

The fact that God put 10 laws inside the ark and all the rest on the side tells me that there is a distinction in these laws.

Deu 31:24-26
24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, 25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, 26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Notice .... This Law... and .... this book of the law.... it does not say God's law or include the 10 commandments.

Notice .... a witness against thee....

They were seperate laws.

 

[TMS]

You're barking up a dead tree my friend.
Some people believe once saved they no longer have to follow any laws, especially the 10 commandments.
That it is now OK to break at will any of those 10 commands.

Go ahead and murder your neighbor. You are already forgiven.
Go ahead and take his wife. Again already forgiven.
That's how much of a hold the man of lawlessness has on them.

People don't like to accept change, especially which the change requires sacrifice.

Keeping the sabbath is not a sacrifice or a change people will regret. It is a delight. And God knows what is best for us. But it also reveals which God is first in their life. A sign of who you follow.
Man or God.

This world made its own rules and laws
God made the sabbath holy.

Follow and keep Sunday or everyday and you are not following God.
Deu 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

 

[OMC]

There was no command about adultery or murder or stealing or lying in those first chapters but this does not mean it was not a moral law.

When was the sabbath made for man?

Because it is not recorded does not mean God made it known.

Cain would be free from guilt
Joseph would have committed adultery without any guilt.
Abraham would not have said obeyed
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

It is a clear error to say because the command isn't recorded it did not exist.

The are so many examples of people sinning and transgressing the 10 commandments, they must have known.

God wrote the law down after there time in Egypt so that they wouldnt forgotten them again.

God knew that the time would come for the shadow laws to pass away. God knew that type would meet antitype in the future.

The fact that God put 10 laws inside the ark and all the rest on the side tells me that there is a distinction in these laws.

Deu 31:24-26
24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, 25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, 26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Notice .... This Law... and .... this book of the law.... it does not say God's law or include the 10 commandments.

Notice .... a witness against thee....

They were seperate laws.

Your entire argument collapses at the single point where Jesus Himself defines the timing:
“The sabbath was made for man” (Mark 2:27) — made, not merely “recognized,” and the verb points backward to Genesis 2:3, where God blesses and sanctifies the seventh day, but the text never says He commanded Adam, never says Adam kept it, never says it was revealed to humanity as a weekly obligation; the creation act is God’s action, not man’s duty, and Scripture never upgrades that sanctification into a pre‑fall command.
Your appeal to “unrecorded commands” fails because Scripture does record pre‑Sinai moral law by showing moral condemnation: Cain’s murder (Gen 4),
Pharaoh’s near‑adultery (Gen 12; 20),
Joseph’s refusal (“How then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?” Gen 39:9), and
Abraham’s obedience (Gen 26:5) — but none of these passages ever mention Sabbath, weekly rest, seventh‑day observance, or any violation of it; the text shows moral law functioning, but never shows Sabbath functioning.
Genesis 26:5 proves Abraham obeyed God’s voice and commands, but it never identifies those commands as the Ten, never lists Sabbath among them, and Paul explicitly says sin is imputed only where a command exists (Rom 4:15), which is why the first human Sabbath command appears in Exodus 16 and the first covenant‑sign assignment appears in Exodus 31.
Your ark‑placement argument also collapses because Scripture never says “inside the ark = moral law” or “outside the ark = ceremonial law”;
Deut 31:26 calls the book “a witness against you,” but Paul says the whole Sinai covenant is the ministry of death and condemnation (2 Cor 3:7–9), and James says the law is one unit (James 2:10).
The NT’s own category is decisive: Sabbaths are shadows pointing to Christ (Col 2:16–17), and shadows are not moral absolutes; murder, adultery, theft, and lying remain moral because the NT reaffirms them, but Sabbath is never reaffirmed as a binding weekly obligation on the new‑covenant believer. I have already said all of this a couple times now. This is scripture. You are importing a system that scripture does not support. And you trying to make it fit just has us going in circles. Leave your system behind and let the scripture speak for itself.

 

[TMS]

Sinai covenant is one unit (Deut 4:13–14; James 2:10), and Christ fulfills and supersedes that covenant

The covenant was an agreement.

A covenant is a formal, solemn, and binding agreement or promise between two or more parties.

The agreement was superseded by the new. Where does the Bible say all the laws of the covenant were made void?

 

[OMC]

The covenant was an agreement.

A covenant is a formal, solemn, and binding agreement or promise between two or more parties.

The agreement was superseded by the new. Where does the Bible say all the laws of the covenant were made void?

The Bible says the whole Sinai covenant‑agreement was voided, not piecemeal laws: Heb 8:13 says the covenant was “obsolete… ready to vanish away,” Heb 7:18 says there was a “disannulling of the commandment,” Col 2:14 says the covenant’s “handwriting of ordinances” was “blotted out,” Eph 2:15 says Christ “abolished… the law of commandments,” and Gal 3:25 says we are “no longer under the tutor.” These are covenant‑level statements declaring the entire agreement ended.

 

[2Christ]

Your entire argument collapses at the single point where Jesus Himself defines the timing:
“The sabbath was made for man” (Mark 2:27) — made, not merely “recognized,” and the verb points backward to Genesis 2:3, where God blesses and sanctifies the seventh day, but the text never says He commanded Adam, never says Adam kept it, never says it was revealed to humanity as a weekly obligation; the creation act is God’s action, not man’s duty, and Scripture never upgrades that sanctification into a pre‑fall command.
Your appeal to “unrecorded commands” fails because Scripture does record pre‑Sinai moral law by showing moral condemnation: Cain’s murder (Gen 4),
Pharaoh’s near‑adultery (Gen 12; 20),
Joseph’s refusal (“How then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?” Gen 39:9), and
Abraham’s obedience (Gen 26:5) — but none of these passages ever mention Sabbath, weekly rest, seventh‑day observance, or any violation of it; the text shows moral law functioning, but never shows Sabbath functioning.
Genesis 26:5 proves Abraham obeyed God’s voice and commands, but it never identifies those commands as the Ten, never lists Sabbath among them, and Paul explicitly says sin is imputed only where a command exists (Rom 4:15), which is why the first human Sabbath command appears in Exodus 16 and the first covenant‑sign assignment appears in Exodus 31.
Your ark‑placement argument also collapses because Scripture never says “inside the ark = moral law” or “outside the ark = ceremonial law”;
Deut 31:26 calls the book “a witness against you,” but Paul says the whole Sinai covenant is the ministry of death and condemnation (2 Cor 3:7–9), and James says the law is one unit (James 2:10).
The NT’s own category is decisive: Sabbaths are shadows pointing to Christ (Col 2:16–17), and shadows are not moral absolutes; murder, adultery, theft, and lying remain moral because the NT reaffirms them, but Sabbath is never reaffirmed as a binding weekly obligation on the new‑covenant believer. I have already said all of this a couple times now. This is scripture. You are importing a system that scripture does not support. And you trying to make it fit just has us going in circles. Leave your system behind and let the scripture speak for itself.

Ai again "your argument collapses" cant you write something for yourself? and stop using AI regurgitated crap ?

 

[OMC]

Ai again "your argument collapses" cant you write something for yourself? and stop using AI regurgitated crap ?

I write the arguments, the reasoning, and the Scripture myself, but because I’m disabled I use a writing assistant to help me put my thoughts into clear, readable paragraphs. That isn’t cheating, and it isn’t “AI regurgitation.” It’s an accessibility tool — the same way someone else might use glasses, speech‑to‑text, or a calculator. If someone hates that I use what I need to communicate, that’s their problem, not mine. If they want to challenge my argument, they can challenge the content. Attacking the fact that I use assistance is just a way to avoid the actual discussion.

 

[Davidstarr]

The Bible says the whole Sinai covenant‑agreement was voided, not piecemeal laws: Heb 8:13 says the covenant was “obsolete… ready to vanish away,” Heb 7:18 says there was a “disannulling of the commandment,” Col 2:14 says the covenant’s “handwriting of ordinances” was “blotted out,” Eph 2:15 says Christ “abolished… the law of commandments,” and Gal 3:25 says we are “no longer under the tutor.” These are covenant‑level statements declaring the entire agreement ended.

You are running around in circles, ignoring the scriptural evidence given to you.
Obviously, no matter what the bible says, you will continue to adhere to the denominational teachings of whichever church you adhere to.

You are NOT sola scriptura. Your posts show purely sola doctrina.

My guess you are well educated (may even have some degrees) in Catholicism. But as far as to what the bible REALLY teaches you remain illiterate.

Of course, there is another option:
You know what the bible teaches yet you purposefully uphold the doctrines of your church in opposition to scriptures. This smacks more of Jesuitism.

 

[OMC]

You are running around in circles, ignoring the scriptural evidence given to you.
Obviously, no matter what the bible says, you will continue to adhere to the denominational teachings of whichever church you adhere to.

You are NOT sola scriptura. Your posts show purely sola doctrina.

My guess you are well educated (may even have some degrees) in Catholicism. But as far as to what the bible REALLY teaches you remain illiterate.

Of course, there is another option:
You know what the bible teaches yet you purposefully uphold the doctrines of your church in opposition to scriptures. This smacks more of Jesuitism.

What system are you accusing me of upholding? What scripture am I misleading others on? What evidence of my education do you have other than assumption?

 

[Inquisitor]

Promiscuousness is covered in the "Thou halt not commit adultery" precept.
Practicing sorcery and talking to dead spirits falls under worshiping other God's.
Stealing, of course, is also one of the 10 commandments.

These were not ceremonial laws. They were moral laws. Parts of the 10 commandments.

There was no death sentence given if one did not observe the Jewish holidays, or forget to offer an animal for redemption of sin.
Show the command where one must die if he is not circumcised? You can't. there is no such law.

Again you are confusing the 10 commandment law, written by God on tablets of stone, with the ceremonial law written by Moses in a book.

BTW if you think murder, theft, adultery, worshiping spirits were only commands given to the Jews then you must think it is OK for Christians to do such things.

You make a valid point, and looking strictly at the text of Scripture, your distinction is well-founded. The Bible does not treat kidnapping as simple property theft or murder, nor does it compress all moral failures into just ten bullet points.

1. Kidnapping as a Unique, Separate Offence
You are entirely correct that kidnapping is its own distinct crime in Scripture. When Exodus 21:16 lays down the law, it establishes a specific, separate category: "Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death." It does not say "if you steal a man like property" or "if you murder a man's freedom."
Scripture assigns a unique death penalty to it because it recognizes the specific horror of taking a person’s body and autonomy. In a legal sense, it is an independent offense that stands alone.

2. Sorcery and the Scope of Ordinances
Your distinction regarding sorcery is also scripturally accurate. A sorcerer or a witch (mekhashephah in Exodus 22:18) does not necessarily have to bow down to an idol or explicitly believe in a specific deity to practice magic.
Scripture treats sorcery as an illegal manipulation of the spiritual realm. This fits precisely into what you noted: ordinances (mishpatim) cover a vast, comprehensive range of life. The judgments and ordinances delivered in the books of Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy weave together:

• Civil and moral protections (like laws on kidnapping, assault, or sorcery)
• Health and dietary instructions (like food laws and quarantine rules)
• Ceremonial and purity regulations (like tabernacle rituals)

3. The Ten Words Are Not Exhaustive
To suggest that the Ten Words capture every single nuance of morality is indeed shortsighted. Scripture itself proves this. If the Ten Words were an exhaustive moral code, God would not have needed to speak the hundreds of other civil and moral statutes that follow them.
The Ten Words serve as foundational pillars, but the ordinances are what actually spell out the specific, real-world offenses against humanity and God—including kidnapping and sorcery. Because these ordinances carry the death penalty for moral violations against a neighbor's life or spiritual order, they show that God's standard of civil justice expands far beyond a simple list of ten things.

 

[OMC]

Ai again "your argument collapses" cant you write something for yourself? and stop using AI regurgitated crap ?

Grid 3 is a full AAC system built for people who can’t rely on natural speech, giving them fast text communication, symbol‑based communication, and full computer access through eye gaze, switches, touch, or pointer devices; it runs on Windows, includes vocabularies like Text Talker and Alpha Core for adults, supports prediction and saved phrases for quick chatting, and even lets users control email, social media, and smart‑home devices, making it one of the strongest options for disabled folks who need to talk in chat rooms or communicate online without speaking. ITS NOT AN AI! look it up.

 

[Inquisitor]

The covenant was an agreement.

A covenant is a formal, solemn, and binding agreement or promise between two or more parties.

The agreement was superseded by the new. Where does the Bible say all the laws of the covenant were made void?

If one law in the Mt Sinai covenant is void then all the law is void.

 

[Gideon300]

well done, all who say the ten commandments do not need to be kept will have a huge surprise when they resurrect, if only they listened.

they always refuse what Jesus said "if you want to enter into life keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17).

Jesus was clear about it. Their excuse is usually its for Jews only and they refuse also the great commission where Jesus told the disciples to teach all he did and said to ALL nations and they did. (Matthew 28:16-20, Mark:16-14-20) They have No excuse. and some don't see the distinction between the law of Moses and the ten commandments that God declared His Covenant, and had the Ark of the Covenant build to keep the 2 tables of stone with the Ten Commandments, written on it by GOD's own hand, they reject this as well because many denominations do not teach these truths written in scripture.

Blessings.

Tell me where the stone tablets are now. Tell me where the temple is now. Do you not yet realise that the law is the shadow and Christ is the reality? Jesus came to be the life of the believer. No one in the Old Covenant had the indwelling Holy Spirit. They did not have the new life that is found only in Christ.

What they did have is the law. And that did nothing for them as the law does not include the power to obey. At the right time, God sent His Son to be much more than the sacrifice for sin. Lord Jesus fulfilled all the righteous requirements of the law for us.

The law saves no one still. The law is still powerless to change the heart. Lord Jesus made it clear that the law is good. The problem is not with the law, it is with fallen humanity. The law brings death. Now you want me to believe that God saved me and wants to put me back under the law that killed me in the first place.

God has not removed the law and it still has a noble purpose. It's intent is to lead us to Christ. My advice to you is to come to Christ, because if you are still bound to the law, you have not come to Christ.

You do not know what it means to be crucified with Christ. That is hardly surprising. The stinking pride of the human heart baulks at the idea that God's only remedy for self is to kill us. Few preach the truth of the cross anymore, even while quoting Galatians 2:20. They know what it says. They do not know what it means. I don't remember too much preaching on verse 19 either.

"For through the law I died to the law so that I might live to God. No law applies to dead people. No one takes them to court or even charges them with an offence.

You and your fellow legalists think that we who enjoy liberty in Christ want to sin. Not at all. The life of Christ in us hates sin. Since Christ is the life of the believer, we hate sin also. Obeying the law is not enough to please God. The rich young ruler stated that he had kept the commandments. Jesus told him that was not enough. I don't care how well you keep God's commandments, you also fail to please God.

 

[Inquisitor]

Again you are confusing the 10 commandment law, written by God on tablets of stone, with the ceremonial law written by Moses in a book.

Moses wrote the original Book of the Covenant in version one (Exodus 24).

In version two of the Book of the same Covenant the upgrade was stone tablets and an Ark of the Covenant (Exodus 34).

Whether God spoke the ten words and Moses wrote them it makes no difference as it's the same ten words.

Whether the ten words are in the Ark or not is irrelevant.

What does that have to do with the price of eggs?

Why keep repeating "God wrote it with His finger"?

It is definitely a mantra you have been taught.

I only hear those lines on Adventist threads.

 

[Davidstarr]

If one law in the Mt Sinai covenant is void then all the law is void.

Naturally then since we no longer kill animals for redemption from sin then we can steal, murder, worship other gods right?

If all those laws are made void then none of them need to be obeyed....

Two people, one an atheist the other a Christian. Both of them climb to the top of a tall building and start randomly shooting people on the streets. As soon as the cops reach them they each shoot themselves.

Naturally the atheist is going to hell right?
But the Christian is not under the same laws as the atheist. He will go on to heaven...

Is that where you wish to stand?

There is no way you can get rid of the 4th commandment without getting rid of all 10 of them.
This is how far you wish to go just to avoid keeping the 7th day sabbath?

 

[Davidstarr]

Tell me where the stone tablets are now. Tell me where the temple is now. Do you not yet realise that the law is the shadow and Christ is the reality? Jesus came to be the life of the believer. No one in the Old Covenant had the indwelling Holy Spirit. They did not have the new life that is found only in Christ.

What they did have is the law. And that did nothing for them as the law does not include the power to obey. At the right time, God sent His Son to be much more than the sacrifice for sin. Lord Jesus fulfilled all the righteous requirements of the law for us.

The law saves no one still. The law is still powerless to change the heart. Lord Jesus made it clear that the law is good. The problem is not with the law, it is with fallen humanity. The law brings death. Now you want me to believe that God saved me and wants to put me back under the law that killed me in the first place.

God has not removed the law and it still has a noble purpose. It's intent is to lead us to Christ. My advice to you is to come to Christ, because if you are still bound to the law, you have not come to Christ.

You do not know what it means to be crucified with Christ. That is hardly surprising. The stinking pride of the human heart baulks at the idea that God's only remedy for self is to kill us. Few preach the truth of the cross anymore, even while quoting Galatians 2:20. They know what it says. They do not know what it means. I don't remember too much preaching on verse 19 either.

"For through the law I died to the law so that I might live to God. No law applies to dead people. No one takes them to court or even charges them with an offence.

You and your fellow legalists think that we who enjoy liberty in Christ want to sin. Not at all. The life of Christ in us hates sin. Since Christ is the life of the believer, we hate sin also. Obeying the law is not enough to please God. The rich young ruler stated that he had kept the commandments. Jesus told him that was not enough. I don't care how well you keep God's commandments, you also fail to please God.

No one is claiming obedience to the 10 commandments can save you.
Only Jesus can do this.
But certainly continual disobedience to God's law can insure you won't be saved.

 

[Davidstarr]

Moses wrote the original Book of the Covenant in version one (Exodus 24).

In version two of the Book of the same Covenant the upgrade was stone tablets and an Ark of the Covenant (Exodus 34).

Whether God spoke the ten words and Moses wrote them it makes no difference as it's the same ten words.

Whether the ten words are in the Ark or not is irrelevant.

What does that have to do with the price of eggs?

Why keep repeating "God wrote it with His finger"?

It is definitely a mantra you have been taught.

I only hear those lines on Adventist threads.

It is what the bible says. God wrote His 10 commandments on tablets of stone. Moses wrote the ceremonial laws in a book.
Exodus chapter 20 predates chapters 24 and 34.

 

[Davidstarr]

Tell me where the stone tablets are now. Tell me where the temple is now. Do you not yet realise that the law is the shadow and Christ is the reality? Jesus came to be the life of the believer. No one in the Old Covenant had the indwelling Holy Spirit. They did not have the new life that is found only in Christ.

What they did have is the law. And that did nothing for them as the law does not include the power to obey. At the right time, God sent His Son to be much more than the sacrifice for sin. Lord Jesus fulfilled all the righteous requirements of the law for us.

The law saves no one still. The law is still powerless to change the heart. Lord Jesus made it clear that the law is good. The problem is not with the law, it is with fallen humanity. The law brings death. Now you want me to believe that God saved me and wants to put me back under the law that killed me in the first place.

God has not removed the law and it still has a noble purpose. It's intent is to lead us to Christ. My advice to you is to come to Christ, because if you are still bound to the law, you have not come to Christ.

You do not know what it means to be crucified with Christ. That is hardly surprising. The stinking pride of the human heart baulks at the idea that God's only remedy for self is to kill us. Few preach the truth of the cross anymore, even while quoting Galatians 2:20. They know what it says. They do not know what it means. I don't remember too much preaching on verse 19 either.

"For through the law I died to the law so that I might live to God. No law applies to dead people. No one takes them to court or even charges them with an offence.

You and your fellow legalists think that we who enjoy liberty in Christ want to sin. Not at all. The life of Christ in us hates sin. Since Christ is the life of the believer, we hate sin also. Obeying the law is not enough to please God. The rich young ruler stated that he had kept the commandments. Jesus told him that was not enough. I don't care how well you keep God's commandments, you also fail to please God.

And BTW the two tablets containing the 10 commandments were placed inside the ark of the covenant. It has been lost since before Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem and Solomon's temple.