THE LAW OF CHRIST

[Dino246]

In your opinion, and using your own definition of legalism, was Jesus our Lord a legalist when He said, “If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17), and, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15)?

No.

 

[NightTwister]

easy take commandment 4 the sabbath if you take the 2 greatest commandments and keep those fine but will you know about the sabbath, and another, not to take the name of the Lord in vain? some we can guess, for instance murder, adultery but some need to be known.

As the statement(s) of Jesus he did say to keep the ten commandments and was specific about it and also said the 2 greatest one encompass the ten but we must know them all or we fall short..

Blessings.

You didn't answer the question.

 

[Gideon300]

He that committeth sin is the servant of sin...(John 8:34)
"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other." (Matt 6:24)
Sinners hate God !

You give credit well for the righteousness His servants manifest, but don't take advantage of His ways and means of remaining pure.

You are good at selectively quoting scripture. Anyone who says he has no sin is a liar. That's in God's word. James says that we all stumble in many ways. Believers are not sinners by nature, but we are still able to sin.

Have you never once sinned since you were saved? Good for you. I've sinned. From time to time I've been deceived by the devil, I've become complacent, I've said some harsh words, especially when I was a new believer.

Now I am a mature believer, two things have happened. I am more aware of the subtleties of sin. I am a little more aware of being free from sins that used to bind me. I don't think about it a lot. I forget what lies behind and press on because I'm far from perfect.

Soeth I thinketh that youeth need to learneth a little moreeth about the reality of the Christian lifeth.​

 

[Gideon300]

Well said. Legalists require an external written code to follow by their own efforts rather than accepting the indwelling Holy Spirit who constantly guides us to righteousness.

One may rightly wonder if legalists have the Holy Spirit within. Their inability to understand this would suggest not.

I had to deal with this question as a new believer, about 5 years in the Lord. The pastor at the time was banging on about Israel's rebellion in the wilderness and disobedience to the law. I spent many hours in the New Testament seeking the truth. Nothing anyone has said about the law has convinced me that believers are subject to it now. Derek Prince has great insight into the place of the law.

 

[OMC]

I had to deal with this question as a new believer, about 5 years in the Lord. The pastor at the time was banging on about Israel's rebellion in the wilderness and disobedience to the law. I spent many hours in the New Testament seeking the truth. Nothing anyone has said about the law has convinced me that believers are subject to it now. Derek Prince has great insight into the place of the law.

If you love someone, i mean really deeply love someone as yourself, would we not be obeying the law in actions and spirit?
If we love as we love ourselves we would treat them as we would like to be treated. Is that not the law in its full form? I ask honestly not as a mock.

 

[Freed18]

You are good at selectively quoting scripture.​

Thanks, as that is the purpose of using scripture.

Anyone who says he has no sin is a liar.​

Your "anyone", are those who walk in darkness.
1 John 1:8 doesn't apply to those walking in God-the light, as there is no sin in the light !

That's in God's word. James says that we all stumble in many ways. Believers are not sinners by nature, but we are still able to sin.​

Again you illustrate that you have been educated in the ways of defending sin.
Here is the real quote..."For in many things we offend all." (James 3:2)
The "many things", are the false doctines being taught alongside real doctrines.
Both salty water and sweet water coming from the same spigot. (James 3:11)
A "Too many cooks spoil the broth" scenario.

Have you never once sinned since you were saved?​

I won't be saved until the day of my resurrection.
I have, however, been converted.
The race remains to be run.

Good for you. I've sinned. From time to time I've been deceived by the devil, I've become complacent, I've said some harsh words, especially when I was a new believer.

Now I am a mature believer, two things have happened. I am more aware of the subtleties of sin. I am a little more aware of being free from sins that used to bind me. I don't think about it a lot. I forget what lies behind and press on because I'm far from perfect.

Soeth I thinketh that youeth need to learneth a little moreeth about the reality of the Christian lifeth.​

Is there sin "in Christ" ?
No ?
Well if there is sin in you, you are not "in Christ".

 

[2Christ]

You didn't answer the question.

I did!

 

[Davidstarr]

Jesus spoke specifically of two commandments:

Matt 22:37-40 "love God" and "love your neighbor"
These are quotes from the OT - Deut 6:5 and Lev 19:18 and nothing new to the Jews of His day.

He also said on these 2 hang all the law and the prophets (verse 40). The word "hang" does not mean to replace or make void the 10 commandments (as in hanging them on a hangman's noose until dead). It is the Greek word "kremannymi". It means "to suspend", "hang up" as in hanging a picture on a wall for display. It means the law and the prophets are summed up in these two precepts.

Paul shows the last 5 of the 10 commandments are summed up in the law to love your neighbor in Rom 13:9 (briefly comprehended - "anakephalaioō" - to sum up, to put in a summary).

The 2 great commandments of love do not REPLACE the 10 commandments. They are a SUMMARY of the 10.

One law, written by God on tablets of stone containing 2 precepts of love (hence there were two tablets) which include all 10 commandments of that law.

 

[OMC]

esus spoke specifically of two commandments:

Matt 22:37-40 "love God" and "love your neighbor"
These are quotes from the OT - Deut 6:5 and Lev 19:18 and nothing new to the Jews of His day.

He also said on these 2 hang all the law and the prophets (verse 40). The word "hang" does not mean to replace or make void the 10 commandments (as in hanging them on a hangman's noose until dead). It is the Greek word "kremannymi". It means "to suspend", "hang up" as in hanging a picture on a wall for display. It means the law and the prophets are summed up in these two precepts.

Paul shows the last 5 of the 10 commandments are summed up in the law to love your neighbor in Rom 13:9 (briefly comprehended - "anakephalaioō" - to sum up, to put in a summary).

The 2 great commandments of love do not REPLACE the 10 commandments. They are a SUMMARY of the 10.

One law, written by God on tablets of stone containing 2 precepts of love (hence there were two tablets) which include all 10 commandments of that law.

Paul agrees: the neighbor‑love command summarizes several commandments (Rom 13:9),
but he never says the Ten Commandments are preserved as a covenant code for the church;
in fact, he says believers are not under the Law (Rom 6:14; Gal 5:18),
have died to the Law (Rom 7:4), and
that the Sinai covenant is obsolete (Heb 8:13).

Does that mean we don't follow the law anymore? No — it does not mean we stop obeying God;
it means we no longer obey the Mosaic covenant as our law.
Scripture is explicit: As already stated, believers are “not under the law” (Romans 6:14), have “died to the law” (Romans 7:4), and the Sinai covenant is “ready to vanish away” (Hebrews 8:13).
But Scripture is equally explicit that we still obey God’s moral will, now expressed as the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is fulfilled through love (Romans 13:8‑10).
Jesus didn’t abolish righteousness;
He relocated the believer’s obedience from the old covenant code to the new covenant command: “love one another as I have loved you” (John 13:34).
So we do not follow the Mosaic law, but we absolutely follow God’s moral will, now written on the heart by the Spirit (Hebrews 10:16). The covenant changed; the God who commands righteousness did not.
It's ok if you observe sabbath on a day. But it's not required in that way anymore.

 

[Davidstarr]

Paul agrees: the neighbor‑love command summarizes several commandments (Rom 13:9),
but he never says the Ten Commandments are preserved as a covenant code for the church;
in fact, he says believers are not under the Law (Rom 6:14; Gal 5:18),
have died to the Law (Rom 7:4), and
that the Sinai covenant is obsolete (Heb 8:13).

Does that mean we don't follow the law anymore? No — it does not mean we stop obeying God;
it means we no longer obey the Mosaic covenant as our law.
Scripture is explicit: As already stated, believers are “not under the law” (Romans 6:14), have “died to the law” (Romans 7:4), and the Sinai covenant is “ready to vanish away” (Hebrews 8:13).
But Scripture is equally explicit that we still obey God’s moral will, now expressed as the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is fulfilled through love (Romans 13:8‑10).
Jesus didn’t abolish righteousness;
He relocated the believer’s obedience from the old covenant code to the new covenant command: “love one another as I have loved you” (John 13:34).
So we do not follow the Mosaic law, but we absolutely follow God’s moral will, now written on the heart by the Spirit (Hebrews 10:16). The covenant changed; the God who commands righteousness did not.
It's ok if you observe sabbath on a day. But it's not required in that way anymore.

Again you are confusing the mosaic law with the 10 commandments. This error has been shown to you before.
I will not run around in circles with you.
It's like flushing a toilet. Round and round in circles until it's all sucked up....

 

[OMC]

Again you are confusing the mosaic law with the 10 commandments. This error has been shown to you before.
I will not run around in circles with you.
It's like flushing a toilet. Round and round in circles until it's all sucked up....

The problem is assuming Scripture treats the Ten Commandments as a covenant separate from the Mosaic law. (Exodus 34:28)

 

[Davidstarr]

The problem is assuming Scripture treats the Ten Commandments as a covenant separate from the Mosaic law. (Exodus 34:28)

God did not write the laws contained in ordinances on tablets of stone.
Your own post shows the 10 commandments are a separate law from the Mosaic laws. From the very fact ONLY the 10 commandments were written on stone (and by God's own finger).
The Mosaic (AKA Levitical laws) were written by Moses in a book, not on stone.

It is this handwriting of ordinances that were nailed to Jesus' cross, not the 10 commandments.

 

[Soyeong]

You can't keep 613 commandments. It is simply not physically possible. If you break one, you break them all. So you will die a sinner. Sorry about that. That's the joy of putting yourself under the letter that kills.​

No one has been required to obey all 613 commandments and not even Jesus experienced obedience to all of them, so that point continues to be irrelevant. If someone breaks one law, the they can repent. It’s not clear to me why you are acting like we can’t repent. God is sovereign, so we don’t have a choice about whether we are obligated to obey Him and it is refusing to obey Him that leads death, not obeying Him.

Modern false teachers are those like you who try to impose the old covenant on those who are born according to the new covenant.​

It is absurd to think that I am a false teacher for taking the position that followers of Christ should follow the example that he set for his followers to follow and not you for teaching against doing that. I have said nothing about imposing the Mosaic Covenant onto those who are born again under the New Covenant, but rather I have been speaking about the way to live under the New Covenant, which involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who are not doers of righteous works in obedience to the Torah are not born again, and in Romans 8:4-14, Paul contrasted those who are born of the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Torah.

You have not answered my point about circumcision. Paul condemns those who try to force the rite of circumcision of Gentile believers. Yet the Torah insists on it, to the point that Moses nearly died because he failed to obey that rite. Now both cannot be true. Either the Torah applies to everyone or it does not.​

I answered that point. Paul only spoke against becoming circumcised for incorrect reasons but did not speak against circumcision for the reasons that God commanded it.

God does not change. His way of dealing with people does change. Humanity was on the earth thousands of years before the law was introduced. When Jesus died and rose again, God's way of dealing with people changed once more. It's way past time that you caught up with that truth.​

The fact that God’s character traits are eternal means that any instructions that He has given for how to embody His character traits are eternal and cumulatively valid regardless of which covenant someone is under, if any.

 

[OMC]

God did not write the laws contained in ordinances on tablets of stone.
Your own post shows the 10 commandments are a separate law from the Mosaic laws. From the very fact ONLY the 10 commandments were written on stone (and by God's own finger).
The Mosaic (AKA Levitical laws) were written by Moses in a book, not on stone.

It is this handwriting of ordinances that were nailed to Jesus' cross, not the 10 commandments.

Scripture ties the Ten Commandments and the Mosaic law into one covenant by repeatedly saying the Ten are the covenant document itself (Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13), then immediately saying God gave statutes and judgments along with that covenant (Deuteronomy 4:14), meaning the covenant is a single unit containing both.

 

[Soyeong]

Exactly.
Nobody gets crucified with Christ so he can continue sinning.

Correctomundo !

By isolating Torah, are you inferring the ten commnadments ?
Much of the other Law has been put away since the resurrection of Jesus Christ...like priesthoods, sabbath keeping, feast keeping, dietary rules, and animal sacrifices.

God's word is the way to live, but the ten commandments are what we are now commanded to observe.

No man is made perfect by the Law's 600 plus edicts.
Evrery man can be made perfect in Christ Jesus.

The Torah contains 613 commandments, ten of which are the Ten Commandments, and it is by the Torah that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20). The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has the character traits that the Torah was given in order to teach us to embody, so if our goal is to embody His character traits, then the only way that we should cease to follow the Torah would be if God were to cease to have those character traits, but His character traits are eternal. For example, in 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to be holy as God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, which includes keeping His Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3) and refraining from eating unclean animals (Leviticus 12:44-45), so if someone ceases to follow God’s instructions for how to be holy as He is holy, then they are treating God as if He has ceased to be holy. There are many other verses that call for us to be holy, so it is not the case that those instructions have been put away. The reason that Jesus went to the cross was not in order to free us to become doers of what the Torah reveals to be sin but just the opposite. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what he accomplished through the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah (Acts 21:20). The Torah was never given to make us perfect, but rather Christ makes us perfect by leading us to be zealous for embodying it.

 

[Davidstarr]

Scripture ties the Ten Commandments and the Mosaic law into one covenant by repeatedly saying the Ten are the covenant document itself (Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13), then immediately saying God gave statutes and judgments along with that covenant (Deuteronomy 4:14), meaning the covenant is a single unit containing both.

Now you can say the 10 commandments were also nailed to Jesus' cross.
ALL TEN of them.
And NT Christians do not have to obey those laws.

This is why I think you are an anarchist and a man of lawlessness.

 

[Dino246]

…
This is why I think you are an anarchist and a man of lawlessness.

After all, it’s so much easier to pigeonhole others so you justify (to yourself) dismissing everything they say.

 

[OMC]

Now you can say the 10 commandments were also nailed to Jesus' cross.
ALL TEN of them.
And NT Christians do not have to obey those laws.

This is why I think you are an anarchist and a man of lawlessness.

Its what the scripture says, Go yell at the Lord for not fixing his words to fit your system. I dare you.

 

[Davidstarr]

Its what the scripture says, Go yell at the Lord for not fixing his words to fit your system. I dare you.

Sorry. I don't do dares.

It's not my system. You obviously just don't want to be obedient to God's will, His law or His way of life.
Of, course my human nature does not want to follow God either.
Thank God that Jesus made it possible for us to be obedient. It's why Jesus sent the Holy Spirit.

Heaven for you is eternal murder, adultery, worshiping idols.
That's not my idea of heaven.
More like the other place.

 

[OMC]

Sorry. I don't do dares.

It's not my system. You obviously just don't want to be obedient to God's will, His law or His way of life.
Of, course my human nature does not want to follow God either.
Thank God that Jesus made it possible for us to be obedient. It's why Jesus sent the Holy Spirit.

Heaven for you is eternal murder, adultery, worshiping idols.
That's not my idea of heaven.
More like the other place.

When you say “you don’t want to be obedient to God’s will,” you’re assuming a spiritual posture that Scripture never allows you to diagnose in another believer’s heart.
Jesus forbids that move in Matthew 7 — you can judge fruit, but you cannot judge motives, because motives belong to God alone (1 Cor 4:5).
And when you say “heaven for you is eternal murder, adultery, worshiping idols,” that’s not exhortation — that’s accusation, and Revelation 12 calls that the dragon’s vocabulary, not the Spirit’s.
The Spirit convicts of sin, yes, but He does it by exposing actual disobedience, not by assigning imaginary wickedness to someone’s future state.
You’re right that human nature resists God (Rom 8:7), and you’re right that obedience is only possible through the Spirit (Rom 8:13), but the way you’re speaking right now is not the Spirit’s method.
The Spirit produces gentleness, patience, and truth — not prophetic doom aimed at a brother.