Man imputed Jesus with sin on the cross, not God.

[rewriter]

Do you understand “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” II Cor. 5:21 in many different ways?

Do you study ancient languages or can you understand them and write a commentary? Which Bible is your interpretation of the many ways? People who actually do understand the original languages and supporting information as well as traditions and other things written at the time of the originals, have done their very best in the current accuracy of scripture along with copious notes and studies which absolutely DO NOT offer numerous ways to understand what is written.

FYI, my intelligence is not under question. Your absurd idea that it might be, is possibly proof of your own lack of it.

I mean honestly, can some of you people possibly post without trying to insult others or make them seen as possibly dumb?

Really though, how do you propose to understand II Cor. 5:21 I posted above.

I trust that since you are so aware of ancient languages that you know that there is a single verse in Colossians that is interpreted in 5 different ways in various translations as well as possibly in a sixth way that no translation will use, all while staying within the rules of Greek grammar. I have also studied Hebrew and when it comes to Aramaic, I have a friend who is fluent. He has also threatened to leave me his Old Syriac bible, which he also reads. I do not believe that his expertise extends all the way to Ugaritic though. Dennis is another friend who reads the bible in the original languages in case I need to consult with him also. Dennis also worked on the DSS by the way.

But without checking Google or AI, just of the top of your head, what do you know about Mithradates of Pontus and Crassus and Corbulo, the Roman generals. All might well be relevant for understanding the NT, as would knowledge of Artabanus of Parthia. And have you ever read Moses of Chorene's "A History of Armenia"? It can be insightful also. And let us not forget Gueen Helene of Adiabene, who might very well be referenced in one gospel account or her son Izates who gets interesting treatment in Josephus for some strange reason. And I trust you know about "tzekhut" (I hope I have spelled it properly), the obscure Hebraic concept that is relevant for answering your question. And of course you also recognize the input of 3rd and 4th Maccabees with regards to your quesiton also

Are you aware of the coinage of Antipas that seems to support Christianity? I know it is only one specific coin, but the timing and the historical events surrounding it do seem significant. Admittedly it could be just an artifact that just happens to fit with both the history and the apparent connection to Christianity, but what is the likelihood of so perfect an artifact on the coin. And which of the ancient Christian legends about Jesus's tomb do you support, one body, two bodies or that the bodies appeared in the well in the garden not in the tomb, at least all the legends agree that the bodies of the thieves hung beside Jesus were involved. Isn't it strange how stories sprang up, and were preserved, regarding a body or bodies associated with Jesus's tomb.

Now if my response has you scrambling for AI or Google then perhaps you do not know as much as you think you do. I can virtually guarantee that you would not care for my answer to your question regarding 2 Corinthians, and I even doubt that you would understand it.

 

[rewriter]

I'll address this on it's own 'merit'

As the Bible declares us all sinners and impossible of saving ourselves, your asking what sin Jesus meant indicates either a lack of biblical knowledge or the idea that you are better equipped than God to tell us.

Is it possible to stop one particular sin? Yes of course it is. In this case, do not have intimate relations with someone you are not married to as adultery does not need both individuals to be married in order to commit adultery...one will do....consult a divorce lawyer on that one if you do not think the Bible a credible source for hour understanding on the subject.

Go and steal no more, go and stop lying against others no more, go and stop driving above the speed limit no more and go and stop adultery. None of it makes you sinless but who knows....your philosophy might tell you otherwise.

Jesus forgave the woman her sin before He told her to "go and sin no more". So, she was forgiven, just as all believers are, when she was told to sin no more. So again, was it a general command or just with regards to one specific sin? And very closely related, are there a variety of sins or are all sinful actions the result of the exact same sin expressing itself in a variety of ways?

Remember, Jesus could reduce all the commandments to just two, and it seems probable that to break one of those two is to break both because they are so closely intertwined. But that would make sin a single entity that expresses itself in a variety of ways rendering the idea of stopping one expression of sin meaningless.

 

[Cameron143]

Jesus was quickened, and we were quickened with Him. Was Jesus spiritually dead?

Jesus wasn't dead in trespass and sin. Everyone else is or was. When He was quickened, He became a life-giving Spirit. This is not said of man.

 

[pinebeach]

I trust that since you are so aware of ancient languages that you know that there is a single verse in Colossians that is interpreted in 5 different ways in various translations as well as possibly in a sixth way that no translation will use, all while staying within the rules of Greek grammar. I have also studied Hebrew and when it comes to Aramaic, I have a friend who is fluent. He has also threatened to leave me his Old Syriac bible, which he also reads. I do not believe that his expertise extends all the way to Ugaritic though. Dennis is another friend who reads the bible in the original languages in case I need to consult with him also. Dennis also worked on the DSS by the way.

But without checking Google or AI, just of the top of your head, what do you know about Mithradates of Pontus and Crassus and Corbulo, the Roman generals. All might well be relevant for understanding the NT, as would knowledge of Artabanus of Parthia. And have you ever read Moses of Chorene's "A History of Armenia"? It can be insightful also. And let us not forget Gueen Helene of Adiabene, who might very well be referenced in one gospel account or her son Izates who gets interesting treatment in Josephus for some strange reason. And I trust you know about "tzekhut" (I hope I have spelled it properly), the obscure Hebraic concept that is relevant for answering your question. And of course you also recognize the input of 3rd and 4th Maccabees with regards to your quesiton also

Are you aware of the coinage of Antipas that seems to support Christianity? I know it is only one specific coin, but the timing and the historical events surrounding it do seem significant. Admittedly it could be just an artifact that just happens to fit with both the history and the apparent connection to Christianity, but what is the likelihood of so perfect an artifact on the coin. And which of the ancient Christian legends about Jesus's tomb do you support, one body, two bodies or that the bodies appeared in the well in the garden not in the tomb, at least all the legends agree that the bodies of the thieves hung beside Jesus were involved. Isn't it strange how stories sprang up, and were preserved, regarding a body or bodies associated with Jesus's tomb.

Now if my response has you scrambling for AI or Google then perhaps you do not know as much as you think you do. I can virtually guarantee that you would not care for my answer to your question regarding 2 Corinthians, and I even doubt that you would understand it.

See, I never said I was aware or knew ancient languages. I stated those who had those credentials and translated them were fit to ascribe the meaning. I made no such claim.

I don't check Google or AI so I will be fine leaving you with those definitions which, I suspect, you just searched.

If your aim is to cause others to question scripture and discuss it as one who is not filled with the Holy Spirit then you are doing a fine job. And it is truly yours. The Bible refers itself as needing to be understood spiritually although I don't think there is any harm for researching as you are doing, but certainly not with the intent you obviously have as it appears you are not convinced of Christ
as He is revealed in scripture. Yours seems to be a head knowledge. Without the Spirit, there is no life.

 

[pinebeach]

Jesus forgave the woman her sin before He told her to "go and sin no more". So, she was forgiven, just as all believers are, when she was told to sin no more. So again, was it a general command or just with regards to one specific sin? And very closely related, are there a variety of sins or are all sinful actions the result of the exact same sin expressing itself in a variety of ways?

Remember, Jesus could reduce all the commandments to just two, and it seems probable that to break one of those two is to break both because they are so closely intertwined. But that would make sin a single entity that expresses itself in a variety of ways rendering the idea of stopping one expression of sin meaningless.

I'm sorry you do not understand what I wrote. Confusion is not something I form attachments with so I will leave that to you.

 

[pinebeach]

Jesus was quickened, and we were quickened with Him. Was Jesus spiritually dead?

I cannot make sense out of what you wrote here so how are you understanding this post?

42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.

[1 Cor 15:40-49, ESV]

 

[OMC]

Jesus was quickened, and we were quickened with Him. Was Jesus spiritually dead?

Where does it say jesus was?

 

[PaulThomson]

Jesus was judged by God and bore the wrath of every sinner. Yes Jesus was judged by God...that's the whole point. What you wrote about sounds like an apology to people who don't believe in God. God is not up for our judgement yet you don't like the fact He judges sin and found His Son who took our place in obedience to the Father to be guilty of all of it....including your sin tod

What did I say that makes you think I don't like the fact that God judges sin? It is a wonderful thing that God judges sin, otherwise many people would keep on going from bad to worse with no motivation to slow down or stop, let alone turn around. But we disagree on how God judges sin. I believe God judges our sin by removing hedges that hold back the evil men and demons wish to inflict on us, so that the evil we are participants in returns on our own heads through others who are participating in evil like us; or by removing from us access to the blessing He gave us which we have been abusing. You believe God directly punishes us by inflicting pain directly upon us by His own hands. Sin will bring destruction upon us, if we persistently engage in it.

The rest of your post just keeps getting worse.

There is no excuse for denial of what scripture states and trying to make it more palatable so you can present a worldly hypocritical Jesus so that YOU will be accepted.

“God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” II Cor. 5:21

The above verse days nothing of what you say.

It is perfectly commensurate with what I interpreted it to be saying. IMO, heretic hunters, of whom you may possibly be one, are binding you to confessing a religious dogma, through threats of dire consequences, if you depart from their particular statement of beliefs. It's a very mediaeval form of religious control. But perfect love cast out fear. We are freed by Jesus to listen to Him for ourselves, and to let the Holy Spirit open the scriptures to us as He wills.

I'm not addressing your private feelings again. Obviously it's a waste of time judging by all those who already did their best to explain to you how you are so very very wrong and you dismiss what is written because it seems
to make you uncomfortable.

Yup. Wait until Revelation. You will really feel out of sorts then.

Right now, I do not see where you understand the actual gospel. In fact, you dismiss it and rewrite it.

The gospel is that we have cut ourselves off from God through sin: not doing to others as we would have others do to us, of which we are constantly convicting ourselves though our condemnation of others for the way they are treating us. God wants us to have a relationship with Him and others that is one of giving and receiving love, modelled on the relationship between Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That is the only way we can keep the universe God made working in peace and harmony., so that others are not wounded by our actions. The only way we can be rescued from our false ideas that are destroying our relationships is by turning our attention away from ourselves and placing our reliance on God, who is the only one able to instruct us in how we should live for a fully healthy and abundant life. That entails us placing our allegiance in Jesus Christ, who came from God into the world to model His way of life for us. We were so offended by the Way He taught that we falsely charged Him with sin and blasphemy, and we killed Him to shut Him up, which God let us do. Even as we were doing that Jesus prayed for our forgiveness, assuring us that no matter how bad we have been it is God's will that we trust that He loves us and we come to Him to have our lives healed. God raise Jesus up from the dead, undoing our murder and releasing us from the judgment due for murder, making it only attempted murder. And the victim has agreed to drop all charges of offenses against Him, for those who repent from their hatred of him and His Way, and instead begin to walk with Him in it .To those people, He gives the Holy spirit to teach them and empower them to live the Way.

So, I believe Jesus came from heaven, became human, taught the truth, submitted to God's command to allow men to kill Him, was killed by men, was raised from the dead because he was sinless and obedient to the point of suffering crucifixion, and as the raised Lamb of God He has all authority, including the authority to forgive sins against God and against Himself, and is able to save from the guttermost to the uttermost those who put their trust in Him and walk with Him in His Way. Those who refuse His grace, they cutoff their herts and minds from God and the healing walking in His Way can bring them, and their sins will come back on their own head through others who are sinning like them, or will one day lose their access to the blessings of God that they presently abuse to distract them from their unloving mistreatment of others.

If we confess with our mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in our heart that God raised Him from the dead, we will be saved. So, tell me, friend, why I am not a follower of Jesus and I am saved?

 

[PaulThomson]

Where does it say jesus was [quickened]?

Eph 2:5
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Act 2:32
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 10:40
Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
Act 13:37
But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
Act 13:33
God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; asit is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Act 13:30
But God raised him from the dead:
etc.

 

[PaulThomson]

Jesus wasn't dead in trespass and sin. Everyone else is or was. When He was quickened, He became a life-giving Spirit. This is not said of man.

Correct. What is your point?

 

[Cameron143]

Correct. What is your point?

Jesus wasn't spiritually dead when He was quickened. We are.

 

[OMC]

hath quickened us together with Christ

“Hath quickened us together with Christ” means one thing in Paul’s argument: God took people who were spiritually dead and made them alive by uniting them to Christ’s resurrection life. Christ wasn't made alive, He is the life.

 

[Burn1986]

Jesus was quickened, and we were quickened with Him. Was Jesus spiritually dead?

Well were you saved? Have you been filled with the Holy Spirit? What gifts do you have - Tongues, prophecy, faith, healing?

 

[pinebeach]

What did I say that makes you think I don't like the fact that God judges sin? It is a wonderful thing that God judges sin, otherwise many people would keep on going from bad to worse with no motivation to slow down or stop, let alone turn around. But we disagree on how God judges sin. I believe God judges our sin by removing hedges that hold back the evil men and demons wish to inflict on us, so that the evil we are participants in returns on our own heads through others who are participating in evil like us; or by removing from us access to the blessing He gave us which we have been abusing. You believe God directly punishes us by inflicting pain directly upon us by His own hands. Sin will bring destruction upon us, if we persistently engage in it.

It is perfectly commensurate with what I interpreted it to be saying. IMO, heretic hunters, of whom you may possibly be one, are binding you to confessing a religious dogma, through threats of dire consequences, if you depart from their particular statement of beliefs. It's a very mediaeval form of religious control. But perfect love cast out fear. We are freed by Jesus to listen to Him for ourselves, and to let the Holy Spirit open the scriptures to us as He wills.

The gospel is that we have cut ourselves off from God through sin: not doing to others as we would have others do to us, of which we are constantly convicting ourselves though our condemnation of others for the way they are treating us. God wants us to have a relationship with Him and others that is one of giving and receiving love, modelled on the relationship between Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That is the only way we can keep the universe God made working in peace and harmony., so that others are not wounded by our actions. The only way we can be rescued from our false ideas that are destroying our relationships is by turning our attention away from ourselves and placing our reliance on God, who is the only one able to instruct us in how we should live for a fully healthy and abundant life. That entails us placing our allegiance in Jesus Christ, who came from God into the world to model His way of life for us. We were so offended by the Way He taught that we falsely charged Him with sin and blasphemy, and we killed Him to shut Him up, which God let us do. Even as we were doing that Jesus prayed for our forgiveness, assuring us that no matter how bad we have been it is God's will that we trust that He loves us and we come to Him to have our lives healed. God raise Jesus up from the dead, undoing our murder and releasing us from the judgment due for murder, making it only attempted murder. And the victim has agreed to drop all charges of offenses against Him, for those who repent from their hatred of him and His Way, and instead begin to walk with Him in it .To those people, He gives the Holy spirit to teach them and empower them to live the Way.

So, I believe Jesus came from heaven, became human, taught the truth, submitted to God's command to allow men to kill Him, was killed by men, was raised from the dead because he was sinless and obedient to the point of suffering crucifixion, and as the raised Lamb of God He has all authority, including the authority to forgive sins against God and against Himself, and is able to save from the guttermost to the uttermost those who put their trust in Him and walk with Him in His Way. Those who refuse His grace, they cutoff their herts and minds from God and the healing walking in His Way can bring them, and their sins will come back on their own head through others who are sinning like them, or will one day lose their access to the blessings of God that they presently abuse to distract them from their unloving mistreatment of others.

If we confess with our mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in our heart that God raised Him from the dead, we will be saved. So, tell me, friend, why I am not a follower of Jesus and I am saved?

You have not understood the verse below and that is plain from this long rendering you created above. Just one verse and you ignore it and create a word salad that condenses your apparent confusion into it.


God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” II Cor. 5:21

 

[rewriter]

See, I never said I was aware or knew ancient languages. I stated those who had those credentials and translated them were fit to ascribe the meaning. I made no such claim.

I don't check Google or AI so I will be fine leaving you with those definitions which, I suspect, you just searched.

If your aim is to cause others to question scripture and discuss it as one who is not filled with the Holy Spirit then you are doing a fine job. And it is truly yours. The Bible refers itself as needing to be understood spiritually although I don't think there is any harm for researching as you are doing, but certainly not with the intent you obviously have as it appears you are not convinced of Christ
as He is revealed in scripture. Yours seems to be a head knowledge. Without the Spirit, there is no life.

No, I have not had to Google or check AI, I did my homework a while ago the hard way, by reading scholarly material and sometimes looking where others said it was worthless to look, even though they admitted they could not answer questions using the approved sources. Translators translate to fit approved standards. Other scholars suggest other translations, get a lot of attention in scholarly circles, but the attention stays in scholarly circles, not even dropping into classroom discussions, because most are bound by their institutions "Statements of Faith". Even finding a credible publisher who will go outside traditional boundaries, no matter how well supported a work is, is a difficult task ("I love it, but the company will not publish it." is more common than many people realize).

As for being filled with the Holy Spirit, do you think the HS is bound by traditional teachings or is it free to break tradition if it is so inclined. What if there is a lot of evidence that tradition is seeking to protect some secret more than to reveal truth? What if the understanding that some of Antipas's coins express support for Christianity is correct, even though admitting such would imply that scripture is actively concealing that fact. What if the facts surrounding Corbulo imply that Acts was written in hope that the turmoil in Roman government kept people from knowing the truth about how the Apostle Paul came to be in Roman custody? What if Mark and John were intentionally rewritten to make them acceptable to Rome and conceal an original anti-Roman stance? All of these possible occurrences could be the result of Rome winning the 1st Jewish War and Christianity seeking to separate itself from any implication that it was in up to its neck with the rebels, just as it appears the Jewish pharisees attempted to do (Josephus, a pharisee, wrote the official version of the rebellion and can be shown to have been rather loose with the truth in places).

 

[rewriter]

What did I say that makes you think I don't like the fact that God judges sin? It is a wonderful thing that God judges sin, otherwise many people would keep on going from bad to worse with no motivation to slow down or stop, let alone turn around. But we disagree on how God judges sin. I believe God judges our sin by removing hedges that hold back the evil men and demons wish to inflict on us, so that the evil we are participants in returns on our own heads through others who are participating in evil like us; or by removing from us access to the blessing He gave us which we have been abusing. You believe God directly punishes us by inflicting pain directly upon us by His own hands. Sin will bring destruction upon us, if we persistently engage in it.

It is perfectly commensurate with what I interpreted it to be saying. IMO, heretic hunters, of whom you may possibly be one, are binding you to confessing a religious dogma, through threats of dire consequences, if you depart from their particular statement of beliefs. It's a very mediaeval form of religious control. But perfect love cast out fear. We are freed by Jesus to listen to Him for ourselves, and to let the Holy Spirit open the scriptures to us as He wills.

The gospel is that we have cut ourselves off from God through sin: not doing to others as we would have others do to us, of which we are constantly convicting ourselves though our condemnation of others for the way they are treating us. God wants us to have a relationship with Him and others that is one of giving and receiving love, modelled on the relationship between Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That is the only way we can keep the universe God made working in peace and harmony., so that others are not wounded by our actions. The only way we can be rescued from our false ideas that are destroying our relationships is by turning our attention away from ourselves and placing our reliance on God, who is the only one able to instruct us in how we should live for a fully healthy and abundant life. That entails us placing our allegiance in Jesus Christ, who came from God into the world to model His way of life for us. We were so offended by the Way He taught that we falsely charged Him with sin and blasphemy, and we killed Him to shut Him up, which God let us do. Even as we were doing that Jesus prayed for our forgiveness, assuring us that no matter how bad we have been it is God's will that we trust that He loves us and we come to Him to have our lives healed. God raise Jesus up from the dead, undoing our murder and releasing us from the judgment due for murder, making it only attempted murder. And the victim has agreed to drop all charges of offenses against Him, for those who repent from their hatred of him and His Way, and instead begin to walk with Him in it .To those people, He gives the Holy spirit to teach them and empower them to live the Way.

So, I believe Jesus came from heaven, became human, taught the truth, submitted to God's command to allow men to kill Him, was killed by men, was raised from the dead because he was sinless and obedient to the point of suffering crucifixion, and as the raised Lamb of God He has all authority, including the authority to forgive sins against God and against Himself, and is able to save from the guttermost to the uttermost those who put their trust in Him and walk with Him in His Way. Those who refuse His grace, they cutoff their herts and minds from God and the healing walking in His Way can bring them, and their sins will come back on their own head through others who are sinning like them, or will one day lose their access to the blessings of God that they presently abuse to distract them from their unloving mistreatment of others.

If we confess with our mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in our heart that God raised Him from the dead, we will be saved. So, tell me, friend, why I am not a follower of Jesus and I am saved?

I can actually, whether you believe it or not, agree with most of this post of yours.

 

[pinebeach]

No, I have not had to Google or check AI, I did my homework a while ago the hard way, by reading scholarly material and sometimes looking where others said it was worthless to look, even though they admitted they could not answer questions using the approved sources. Translators translate to fit approved standards. Other scholars suggest other translations, get a lot of attention in scholarly circles, but the attention stays in scholarly circles, not even dropping into classroom discussions, because most are bound by their institutions "Statements of Faith". Even finding a credible publisher who will go outside traditional boundaries, no matter how well supported a work is, is a difficult task ("I love it, but the company will not publish it." is more common than many people realize).

As for being filled with the Holy Spirit, do you think the HS is bound by traditional teachings or is it free to break tradition if it is so inclined. What if there is a lot of evidence that tradition is seeking to protect some secret more than to reveal truth? What if the understanding that some of Antipas's coins express support for Christianity is correct, even though admitting such would imply that scripture is actively concealing that fact. What if the facts surrounding Corbulo imply that Acts was written in hope that the turmoil in Roman government kept people from knowing the truth about how the Apostle Paul came to be in Roman custody? What if Mark and John were intentionally rewritten to make them acceptable to Rome and conceal an original anti-Roman stance? All of these possible occurrences could be the result of Rome winning the 1st Jewish War and Christianity seeking to separate itself from any implication that it was in up to its neck with the rebels, just as it appears the Jewish pharisees attempted to do (Josephus, a pharisee, wrote the official version of the rebellion and can be shown to have been rather loose with the truth in places).

Right but you still had to look it up. That being my actual point.

I could get people to support belief for just about anything and it seems you want to dicker past the point of understanding and certainly of faith in scripture as it is, as it stands and as people far beyond the abilities of your homework results would suggest
to you.

What if the Bible is true as is? I believe it is; you apparently do not.

Ever learning it seems, but never coming to the knowledge of the truth would be a very fitting way to describe your machinations.

Scripture defines the problem you seem to behaving.

 

[rewriter]

Right but you still had to look it up. That being my actual point.

I could get people to support belief for just about anything and it seems you want to dicker past the point of understanding and certainly of faith in scripture as it is, as it stands and as people far beyond the abilities of your homework results would suggest
to you.

What if the Bible is true as is? I believe it is; you apparently do not.

Ever learning it seems, but never coming to the knowledge of the truth would be a very fitting way to describe your machinations.

Scripture defines the problem you seem to behaving.

Yes, I looked it up and taking that action allowed me to find answers to questions, and to learn that there is a lot of evidence that something is being deliberately hidden in scripture.

Why did the Romans persecute Christians? Scripture implies that there would be no reason for it. Awareness of history though suggests something far different, something that the early church likely would not like to be in any official records.

Paul, in 2 Timothy 3:!6, chose not to use the term "enthousiasmos", "inspired by God", which was known at the time and sometimes applied to scripture, but which also had other connotations that Rome might well have objected to. So why do you think he chose to invent a brand-new term, unless it was to avoid some issue that suggests strong ties to Mark, John and the question of women's hair in Corinth, and which can also be linked to aspects of both Luke (negatively) and Acts (incidentally) that Rome could object to.

But such would not fit with tradition, so clearly this knowledge must be irrelevant, even if it can explain otherwise inexplicable issues.

 

[PaulThomson]

I did not say "some spirits become quickened" That is you twisting my words and my meaning.

You wrote -
OMC said:
What would you call a person whose spirit has not yet been quickened by God?

If you proposed that someone's spirit has not yet been quickened by God, you certainly seem to me to have said that some spirits become quickened. If someone's spirit were not yet quickened/made alive, then it must be presently dead. And if it became not dead, it would be a spirit that has been quickened/made alive.

Biblically, “quickened” means one thing only: God making a dead human alive.
It never refers to angels, demons, or “spirits” being made alive.
The term shows up in older English translations (KJV), but the underlying Greek verb is ζῳοποιέω — to make alive, to give life, to cause to live. Ephesians 2:5: “even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ.”
And every single time Scripture uses it for salvation, the subject is God, and the object is a human who was spiritually dead.

We were dead in/because of sins because we were destined for permanent physical death because of sins. But when Jesus rose, we were no longer destined for permanent physical death; we became destined for a physical resurrection.

We were also dead in sins, i.e. our works were sins/faithless dead works because of sin in our flesh. But the Holy Spirit who raised Jesus from the dead, Jesus shares with us, so that we are willing and empowered to do faith-filled living works. We were made alive together with Christ.

I think we have seen that the term "spiritually dead" is not in the Bible. Please, make a biblical claim by restating your claim using terms that are in the Bible.

 

[PaulThomson]

I cannot make sense out of what you wrote here so how are you understanding this post?

42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.

[1 Cor 15:40-49, ESV]

You need to read back through a few mutual responses between OMC and I to understand one post in the exchange. They need to be read in their context. Try that, and see if my point becomes clearer.

What is "this post" referring to