Well you’ve brilliantly won and I’ll let you have the last word there ……:
Replacement theology? Yes or No.
- Thread starter Gideon300
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LOL! See, now you're starting to notice a pattern of God pouring out His Spirit on His people. Now, you just need to realize and come to accept, the fact that He will do it again. Seriously, the main reason we're going to have another Great Tribulation is to remove the blinders from God's original people that were put on in Romans 11:25. Or do you not believe in a future Tribulation now either?
Again, your verse doesn't say anything different than the KJV version. Maybe you should read it again. It says "to save those who are eagerly waiting for him".
The whole point of cv5 bringing up that verse in the first place was for those who don't believe in a Second Coming.
God/Jesus does save those who are eagerly waiting for Him. Then God/Jesus will put the people and the nations through the Sheep & Goat Judgement in order to carry them into the Millennial Kingdom. The Bible tells us that the basis for that Judgement has to do with how well the nations treated God's people. That's why He cuts down the nations who try to come up against Jerusalem AGAIN in Zechariah 12, on a much larger scale than when the first temple was destroyed. The 1/3 that remain in the land in Zechariah 13:8-9 will be there for that purpose. The refining with fire of God's remnant is probably done through the Great Tribulation period. Whether it's before Jesus' return or afterwards, the end result will still be the same. A remnant will be saved just like they always have been throughout all of history.
They are not an abuse of scripture. Maybe the difference is that you're not reading the scripture with a pure heart because you're holding some deep seated resentment against Israel as a nation, when you shouldn't be. Didn't Jesus tell all of us to love our enemies? God has a plan for his original people, just like He does for everyone else.
Who says to deny Jesus 2nd coming?
Did you read what Jesus tells His people to prepare 2nd coming?
Did Jesus mention commit murdering stealing to prepare His 2nd coming?
Did Jesus mention to sell Him and shout crucify Him to prepare His resurrection?
What's your thought process?
Where is your logic?
Who are you following?
Repent and turn to Jesus while still have breath.
We know HeIsHere doesn't believe in the Second Coming of Jesus, which is why cv5 brings it up.
Love the enemy is telling the enemy the truth, not to hand him a knife to help him suicide.
That's how I treat people with political agendas who monkey around with the Bible.
The only one with a political agenda is you. You're looking at Israel from a political view instead of looking at Israel from God's view. That's why that makes you the one monkeying around with the Bible. Israel is God/Jesus' holy land and there is a remnant of people living in it that God/Jesus will refine like Zechariah 13:8-9 says. That's why Jesus returns to Jerusalem and not some other location. It is to prove that He was always the God/King of Israel and the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Which is the way the Bible was WRITTEN. We were grafted into that Olive Tree as Gentiles, but that doesn't mean that God/Jesus is going to return to a Gentile nation to taunt Israel.
Even if they hold the view of dispensationism, still there is no connection of handing weapon to current Israel state.
How do that connection come in?
Maybe you can start with beekeeper of "love your enemy" explanation, then we can discuss how to " love your enemy, " by Jesus term.
It starts after Jesus' return and after He performs the Sheep & Goat Judgement. The whole purpose of the Messianic Age, Millennial Kingdom is to restore peace upon the earth where everyone will know that Jesus is God. After the Millennial Kingdom period is over you see the Great White Throne Judgement in Revelation 20.
Here are the Bible verses describing the Millennial Kingdom and the period of peace that will take place during it:
- Isaiah 2:4 – "And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."
- Micah 4:3 – "But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it."
- Isaiah 9:6 – "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."
- Isaiah 9:7 – "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this."
- Isaiah 11:6 – "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them."
- Isaiah 11:7 – "And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox."
- Isaiah 11:8 – "And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den."
- Isaiah 11:9 – "They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea."
- Psalm 46:9 – "He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire."
- Psalm 72:7 – "Let the people praise him in the congregation of the people, and bless him in the assembly of the people: Let the abundance of peace prosper as long as the moon; yea, as long as the sun endureth."
- Hosea 2:18 – "And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely."
- Zechariah 9:10 – "And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth."
- Luke 1:79 – "To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace."
- Luke 19:11 – "And it came to pass, when he had thus spoken, he went before, going up to Jerusalem: and they supposed that he was going to set up the kingdom of Judaea at that time."
- Acts 1:6 – "Therefore, men and brethren, what shall we do? And they said, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?"
- Acts 3:19 – "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;"
- Acts 3:20 – "And he shall send Jesus Christ, whom before that he had sent: whom heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things,"
- Acts 3:21 – "Which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."
Beekeeper obviously sees Israel/Jews as enemies to Christians, and while they appear that way to some temporarily, we need to look to the Bible to see how God/Jesus will correct this situation and not look at it as a permanent state of rejection by God/Jesus.
Current secular Israel, jews are enemy of Jesus, so let's see how we can truly love them.
- refuse to commit murdering, stealing, lying together with the enemy, not as in ot, many Israelites instead of worshipping YHVH, they joined the enemy side and worship Baal, sacrificing babies....they supposed to lead other people to YHVH, but instead they joined the other people became followers of baal, ...pagan idols.
- be like Daniel, 3 young men, refuse to bow down to fake gods.
- telling them the gospel, tell them if they don't repent, God's wrath will be upon them.
- tell them to stop all the murdering, stealing. Expose the murdering, stealing, immoralities.
More ideas welcome.
We have all had this conversation before.
While God/Jesus doesn't prefer war, sometimes it is necessary for God/Jesus to protect His people from Satan and anyone who wants to do them harm, regardless of their current state. Especially, when we already know that God has a specific plan and purpose for these people based on what has been written. Don't forget that while Jesus will ultimately bring peace into the world, He has to do it by returning with the Wrath of God. Does that mean He won't use people on the earth to carry out part of those plans before He returns to finish it off? The answer is "No".
Let's look at some history in the Bible:
God personally waged war against the Egyptians by destroying their army in the Red Sea and later commanded Israel to execute judgment on the Canaanites, who were deemed exceedingly wicked. In these conquests, God provided specific battle strategies, such as the collapse of Jericho’s walls after the Israelites marched and shouted, demonstrating that victory relied on divine intervention rather than conventional military might.
God directed ancient Israel’s armies to defend their land and enforce His laws, often intervening supernaturally to secure victory. Key examples include Gideon’s 300 men defeating the Midianites to prove God saves through His power, and King David receiving divine battle tactics to defeat the Philistines. God also fought for Israel without their direct combat, such as when He caused a coalition of enemies to rout themselves during King Jehoshaphat’s reign.
Heavenly hosts and angelic armies are depicted as executing God’s will alongside or instead of human forces. The commander of the Lord’s army appeared to Joshua to lead the conquest of Canaan, and Elisha’s servant saw mountains filled with "horses and chariots of fire" to protect Israel. Ultimately, biblical texts portray God as the Supreme Leader who determines when to wage war, ensuring that His people trust in His power rather than their own strength.
People do not seem to understand that there was a time of transition between the old covenant and the new covenant, the new covenant was installed when Christ Jesus used the Roman Army to destroy the temple.