Good conversation.
I like your insight. However I don't think the darkness is Satan. My sense is it is something else.
How old is our world? A biblical timeline.
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I like your insight. However I don't think the darkness is Satan. My sense is it is something else.
Divergence of invisible light (space), just as visible light comes from the convergence of invisible light.
On day 1, the measure of day was light, and darkness. Earth without form, so possible not spinning like today spinning yet.
So I would doubt day 1 is the same length period as today.
That's a reasonable observation.
Genesis 1 defines the first day by the cycle of light and darkness, not by the sun's movement.
Since the sun, moon, and stars are not appointed until Day 4, the text doesn't explicitly tell us that Day 1 was measured the same way we measure a 24-hour day today.
At the same time, Scripture still calls it "evening and morning, the first day," so whatever the mechanism was, God was establishing a real day-night cycle.
Whether those days were identical in length to today's days is a question the text itself does not directly answer.
The safest conclusion is that God defined the days, but the exact mechanics of that early creation period are not fully revealed.
The text only says God separated light from darkness.
It does not say He turned the light off each night.
It could be a spatial separation, where one region experienced light while another experienced darkness, or some other arrangement known only to God.
I think at day 1, the darkness was just without light. Imagine without light?
from the text, it seems on day 1 here is the sequence of creation:
1. Time
2. Earth, water
3. Light
That corresponds to major scientific disciplines: earth, water, light, and time.
Physics / Optics = light and darkness
Physics / Relativity = time
Earth Science / Geology = earth
Hydrology = waters
Maybe its just describing the creation of those principles that we study and observe as "reality"
I believe in the gap theory. I believe God created the heaven and the earth as stated in verse 1, and the sons of God including Lucifer inhabited the earth until Lucifer led a rebellion and fell. God destroyed the earth that was with an overflow as we find in to verse 2, thus, the darkness. God starts over and starts creating the heaven and earth as we now know it in the rest of the chapter including man who would "replenish" the earth. Remember, Adam was a son of God as well. See Luke 3:38.
Wow, definitely amazing.
On day 1, the very basic stuff first.
This is the reason scripture is God breathed, absolutely beyond human writer capabilities.
When earth was without form, possible it wasn't shaped completely like today, not self spinning right like today, nor going around the sun either for sure....
Separating light and darkness can be time or space or both, time and space is very related. Time can be just another dimension of space.
Too interesting.
Moving on to day 2.
Psalm 42:7 "Deep calls unto deep at the noise of Your waterfalls; All Your waves and billows have gone over me."
1 Corinthians 2:10 "But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God."
It's interesting that we see "the deep" at the beginning, even the Spirit hovering over the face of the waters.
"..the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God."
In the context of God revealing Who He is "in the beginning", we can deduce that the deep things of God are at least a portion of what He began to reveal.
This calls to mind "it is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings is to search out a matter."
"At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was well-pleasing in Your sight."
"To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into."
This may help, seems somebodys been keeping up on this since the time of creation. You wont find any mention of our Lord in there at this time but maybe some day they will change their minds,
It says it is the year 5787 right now.
The measure of day started with evening, the darkness, that appeared after the expanse of space was created,
The earth abode in the the darkness of the empty space, as I am sure you are aware what happens to water in space was covered by the frozen waters (elements) that had risen up during it formation. [1] void infers no living substance [2] and without form infers it that it had no features, it had no comeliness. [3]
[1] Water in Space video
The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen. Job 38:30
[2] And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, Gen 7:23
[3] when there were no fountains abounding with water (liquid) before the mountains were settled, before the hills Prov 8:24-25
he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. Isa 53:2
KJV
The morning, the visible light of the sun, that appeared at the end of the first day.
And God said let there be light, and there was light Gen1:3
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Gen 1:4-5
The amount of time that it would take electromagnetic forces from the Sun to get the earth to begin rotating is staggering. But seeing that God said let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, time would be needed for the radiant heat of the sunlight to began heating those frozen waters (elements) under the outer surface. That would take awhile in our perspective of time. But as those elements began turning in a gaseous state they would slowly raise from the surface of the earth. Without that cloud cover the earth like a garment, it would be hard to get a breath.
While it took 3 days, or 3 turns before the earth was rotating to produce the gravity on earth so that the living creatures on earth didn't just float off into space. Thus on the fourth day the two great lights, Day and Night were in equilibrium.
Then again, everyone has their own interpretation, but whether it took 1000 years for the earth to spin 360 degrees on its axis, or 24 hours, the evening and the morning would still be a day.
Some very good cross references in scripture. Thank u.
For day 1, there was no sun.
I am saying possible God is the source of light for day 1.
You mentioned day 1 possible all frozen, very interesting too. . Job 38:30, Prov 8:24-25.
So back to day 1, before light, it was cold, icy, spacing... possible. Then light came in.
Thermal dynamically, it is reasonable at day 1, started with absolute 0 temperature. Light is energy, it came to warm things up.....
Thank you again.
Love these discussions.
It depends on what you mean by 'unbroken timeline'.
There are instances where the space/time continuum has been interrupted and altered.
Example 1:
| Isaiah 38:8 - Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down. |
Although it was a short amount of time, we can already see that time has been altered.
Example 2:
| Joshua 10:13 - And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. |
Now we are up to a day.
Example 3:
| 2 Peter 3:8 - But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Psalms 90:4 - For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. |
I have yet to see someone who quotes the above verses connect it with its proper context. The verses are referring to the flood of Noah. Thus, if one were to take them literally, one could make the case that for every year that Noah was inside the ark, a thousand years passed on earth.
If Noah was inside the ark for say 360 days, then according to 2 Peter 3:8 and Psalms 90:4, 360,000 years passed on earth. This would give plenty of time for life to die.
Interestingly, some have traced modern humans back to around that same time:
Bible and Theory of Evolution agreeing? Oh my!
Example 4:
| Genesis 11:6-8 - And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech. So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. |
How much time did this take? Did it happen in the twinkling of an eye? Was the space/time continuum altered in the process? The Bible is literally describing a Mandella Effect.
If one were to examine this event scientifically, one could make a case that parallel universes were involved. John travelled to a 'new heavens and new earth' in Revelation. Technically, that is a parallel unniverse.
Where did all of the languages come from? They had to have been developed somewhere. That can take hundreds or even thousands of years. They didn't come from nowhere.
Until we know exactly what happened, we cannot assume that time has been continuous since Adam and Eve.
Example 5:
| Genesis 10:25 - And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother’s name was Joktan. |
Is the above literal? Were there plate tectonics involved? Was earth Pangea before the flood? How long does it take for continents to drift?
The bottom line is that it would be foolish to not take into consideration all of the strange anomalies in Scripture with regards to the altering of space/time. I do not believe it has been continuous. Scripture agrees.
That's certainly an interesting model, but I think it goes beyond what Genesis says.
The text tells us that darkness existed, God created light, separated the light from the darkness, and called them Day and Night.
It does not tell us that the sun became visible on Day 1, that the earth was initially not rotating, that frozen waters covered the earth, or that it took three days for gravity and rotation to reach equilibrium.
The challenge is that many of those conclusions depend on assumptions imported from modern cosmology rather than statements found in Genesis itself.
If someone wishes to argue that the creation days were longer than 24 hours, that case must be made from the text.
But the text itself measures Day 1 by "evening and morning," not by how long it would take sunlight to thaw frozen elements or start the earth spinning.
So while your model is possible, I would distinguish between what Genesis states and what we infer may have happened behind the scenes.
Great findings.
That's the reason I kept saying the 7th matters, but starting point all can be different.
Absolutely spot-on.
Earth was not created until the Third Day:
| Genesis 1:10 - And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. |
The 'firmament' was not earth's atmosphere. Consequently, most do not even know what the three heavens are.
Where did God dwell before he made the three heavens? If folks wish to go to the 'beginning', I would suggest starting there.
Can we agree on "approximate" 12 hours of night followed by and "approximate" 12 hours of day?
About the 3rd week in June the days grow shorter while the nights begin to grow longer.
On Winter solstice the shortest day of the year begins to grow longer while the longest night of the year begins to grow shorter.