looking for help reconciling the Sabbath with common observation?

[Davidstarr]

The Scriptures Thoroughly Refute the Possibility that Jesus is Michael

The exact phrase occurs 3 times

Durst G5111 Not G3766

Luke 20:40

And after that they durst G5111 not ask Him any question at all.

Acts 7:32

Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst G511 not G3756 behold.

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst G5111 not G3766 bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

The KJV translates Strong's G5111 in the following manner: durst (7x), dare (4x), be bold (4x), boldly (1x).

The KJV translates Strong's G3756 in the following manner: not (1,210x), no (147x), cannot (with G1410) (57x)

Moses Trembled and was afraid to look upon Elohim, He from fear, dared not look

Michael dared not bring a accusation

Not convinced, then read the verse in its context, brutish men speaking evil of things they don't understand, Yet Michael who did understand dared not say anything against satan, and said the Lord rebuke you

In Summary
you want people to believe, that the Pre-Incarnate JESUS who you believe was is and will always be Michael the Archangel, who dared not, bring a accusation against satan is God Almighty.

LOL

I'll Pass!!!

It's not a salvation matter.

What is important is that you believe that Jesus is the eternal Son of God.
That He became human and died for our sins.
Through that action (by God alone) we can repent of our sins and be saved.

Arguing about who Jesus was before He became incarnate is actually useless.

Some want to argue that Michael is an eternal being. And there is scriptural evidence.
Others want to say He is a created being. One of several archangels.
But that aligns more with the Books of Enoch which are Catholic forgeries.

I just don't see the point in arguing the matter.

 

[Roger316]

You can't even read what the forth commandment actually says can you. I suggest you do (Exo 20:8-11).
Verse 11 actually points BACK to creation week and God resting on the 7th day from His labors (Gen 2:1-3).

Do you even own a bible of your own? I will send you one (or at least find a way for you to get one) for free.

I note your inept attempt at sarcasm. I think my post was clear and it left no doubt that I have both read and studied the passage.

Let me ask you this, since you think you know: What does it mean for God to rest? What does that look like? The answer is also in Genesis if you can find it and recognize it.

 

[NightTwister]

NT teach us do not forsake gathering. Gathering is important.

Most churches proved otherwise during COVID.

 

[Churchgoer]

Most churches proved otherwise during COVID.

Yep, stick with those who is not afraid of covid.
But temporary weakness can understand. No one, no group is perfect.

 

[Yissachar]

The Scriptures Thoroughly Refute the Possibility that Jesus is Michael

The exact phrase occurs 3 times

Durst G5111 Not G3766

Luke 20:40
And after that they durst G5111 not ask Him any question at all.

Acts 7:32
Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst G5111 not G3756 behold.

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst G5111 not G3756 bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

The KJV translates Strong's G5111 in the following manner: durst (7x), dare (4x), be bold (4x), boldly (1x).

The KJV translates Strong's G3756 in the following manner: not (1,210x), no (147x), cannot (with G1410) (57x)

Moses Trembled and was afraid to look upon Elohim, he dared not

Michael dared not bring a accusation

Still not convinced, then read the verse in its context, brutish men speaking evil of things they don't understand, Yet Michael who did understand dared not say anything against satan, and said the Lord rebuke you

In Summary
you want people to believe, that the Pre-Incarnate JESUS who you believe was is and will always be Michael the Archangel, who dared not, bring a accusation against satan is God Almighty.



Please Submit your reason for double - posting

It started like this you see

I noticed a insignificant typo, then a missing number, then thought not was not the best word to start off a sentence, so I added one word.

Proceed

Wow thank you so much

It's not a salvation matter.

What is important is that you believe that Jesus is the eternal Son of God.
That He became human and died for our sins.
Through that action (by God alone) we can repent of our sins and be saved.

Arguing about who Jesus was before He became incarnate is actually useless.

Some want to argue that Michael is an eternal being. And there is scriptural evidence.
Others want to say He is a created being. One of several archangels.
But that aligns more with the Books of Enoch which are Catholic forgeries.

I just don't see the point in arguing the matter.

Okay, moving on

The SDA historically has taught that the Pope, the Vicar of Christ on a hat = 666, making each pope the man of sin - the initial reason that you started this conversation in the first place, you asked me if I agreed with the 1844 date you were proposing - a date now believed by SDA to be the date the RCC and pope's reign came to a end. The same people who originally taught that was the date Jesus would return, I digress

So why do most seventh day Adventist still celebrate christmas and easter, holidays invented by the man of sin, the devil 666 ?

The RCC is the mother of harlots !!! the man of sin, the son of perdition has never been nor will ever be a pope

How to identify her daughters, they keep the unholy days she invented, that's how

a double whammy for the SDA

Ouch

 

[JohnDB]

Funny. The people of Sodom talked that way about Lot. Though on a different subject.
Job's friends who falsely accused him claimed he was boastful.
Psa 44:8 "In God we boast all the day long, and praise thy name for ever. Selah."
I know you meant that as an accusation. I take it as a compliment. TYVM.
Yes, we are saved by grace through faith, not of works. It is a free gift from God. Only the blood of Jesus on the cross saves us. There is nothing we can do to "earn" salvation.
That's not the point of living lives in obedience to God's will, doing enough good deeds to be accepted.
We don't do the good deeds to GET saved. We do the good deeds because we are ALREADY saved. Led by God's Spirit to be obedient.
Certainly living lives AGAINST God's will can condemn us. But our deeds cannot save us.
And certainly those against God are not under the law, cannot even keep it anyway:
Rom 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

So EXACTLY AND PRECISELY how do you explain away Romans 13:10 ?

 

[Yissachar]

The Scriptures Thoroughly Refute the Possibility that Jesus is Michael

The exact phrase occurs 3 times

Durst G5111 Not G3766

Luke 20:40
And after that they durst G5111 not ask Him any question at all.

Acts 7:32
Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst G5111 not G3756 behold.

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst G5111 not G3756 bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

The KJV translates Strong's G5111 in the following manner: durst (7x), dare (4x), be bold (4x), boldly (1x).

The KJV translates Strong's G3756 in the following manner: not (1,210x), no (147x), cannot (with G1410) (57x)

Moses Trembled and was afraid to look upon Elohim, he dared not

Michael dared not bring a accusation

Still not convinced, then read the verse in its context, brutish men speaking evil of things they don't understand, Yet Michael who did understand dared not say anything against satan, and said the Lord rebuke you

In Summary
you want people to believe, that the Pre-Incarnate JESUS who you believe was is and will always be Michael the Archangel, who dared not, bring a accusation against satan is God Almighty.



Please Submit your reason for double - posting

It started like this you see

I noticed a insignificant typo, then a missing number, then thought not was not the best word to start off a sentence, so I added one word.

Proceed

Wow thank you so much


Okay, moving on

The SDA historically has taught that the Pope, the Vicar of Christ on a hat = 666, making each pope the man of sin - the initial reason that you started this conversation in the first place, you asked me if I agreed with the 1844 date you were proposing - a date now believed by SDA to be the date the RCC and pope's reign came to a end. The same people who originally taught that was the date Jesus would return, I digress

So why do most seventh day Adventist still celebrate christmas and easter, holidays invented by the man of sin, the devil 666 ?

The RCC is the mother of harlots !!! the man of sin, the son of perdition has never been nor will ever be a pope

How to identify her daughters, they keep the unholy days she invented, that's how

a double whammy for the SDA

Ouch

Why is it (that only after time has long since expired), (300 seconds given to edit, almost a eternity), something comes to mind that you surmise probably should have been included, but it wasn't, and said to yourself, forget about it, enough is enough already

I have but not this time, piling onward for the faith

A1 - Z26

The mother of harlots =226

The roman catholic church = 226

Y

Post in thread 'His Understanding is Arithmetical'

Sep 25, 2026

English Ordinal A1 - Z26 = 1769 = 23 KJV

Let = 37 Hath = 37 Count = 73 Number = 73 Ordinal = 73 Perfect = 73 Eighteen = 73

Wisdom - W 23 I 9 S 19 D 4 O 15 M 13 = 83 \ 23rd Prime 5

2+3+9+1+9+4+1+5+1+3 = 38

Verse 30927 | Revelation 13:18 = 1451 \ 230th Prime 5
Verse 1451 = 1318

<>

Verse 30927 = 21 | Revelation 13:18 = 31 _ (52) 7

Here is Wisdom. Let him that hath Understanding count the number of the...

• Yissachar

 

[ScooterJackson]

So EXACTLY AND PRECISELY how do you explain away Romans 13:10 ?

That's in the New Testament so it's referring to the Law of Christ.
9 of the 10 Commandments found in the OT are repeated again under the New Covenant (Law of Christ)
The sabbath has been upgraded to abiding IN Christ because the OT law could not bring life. The new one does.

 

[Davidstarr]

I note your inept attempt at sarcasm. I think my post was clear and it left no doubt that I have both read and studied the passage.

Let me ask you this, since you think you know: What does it mean for God to rest? What does that look like? The answer is also in Genesis if you can find it and recognize it.

God is omnipotent. He really has no need to rest.

But He WILL keep His own laws....

As our Creator, that's His chosen field of work, His job, to create.
He did that in 6 days and rested from that labor on the 7th.

Do you follow Jesus? Do you believe He is our Creator?
Then why is it so hard to understand the 7th day sabbath?

 

[Davidstarr]

So EXACTLY AND PRECISELY how do you explain away Romans 13:10 ?

How does this relate?

But add in verse 9 and you can see.
Loving our neighbor means:
No murder
No stealing
No adultery
No bearing false witness
No coveting what he has.

Aren't these in the 10 commandments?

BTW Love your neighbor is an OT command as well
Lev 19:18

 

[Davidstarr]

That's in the New Testament so it's referring to the Law of Christ.
9 of the 10 Commandments found in the OT are repeated again under the New Covenant (Law of Christ)
The sabbath has been upgraded to abiding IN Christ because the OT law could not bring life. The new one does.

Sorry, all TEN are found in the NT. You just don't like Heb 4:4 and 10.

Not to mention the 80+ recorded times in the book of Acts showing a weekly 7th day sabbath was still kept.
By both Jews AND Gentiles.

 

[ScooterJackson]

Sorry, all TEN are found in the NT. You just don't like Heb 4:4 and 10.

Sorry you have not been able to find anyplace in the New Testament that says we are to only honor and worship God on Saturday
No, we are to abide in Christ resting in Him all day, every day, 24/7/365

Not to mention the 80+ recorded times in the book of Acts showing a weekly 7th day sabbath was still kept.

And yet there are zero instructions in the New Testament telling Christians to only honor and worship God on Saturday and there are zero warnings in the New Testament telling us those that abide in Christ resting in Him all day, every day, 24/7/365 are going to hell for refusing to only honor and worship God on Saturday.

Romans 14:5-6 - One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Colossians 2:16 - So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,

Counsel of Jerusalem in Acts 15 - The Lord did not lead or instruct the Apostles to require Christians to to only honor and worship God on Saturday. That means Christians are free to abide in Christ resting in Him all day, every day, 24/7/365

If you choose to only honor and worship God on Saturday, then you go do that.
Those of us who abide in Christ resting in Him all day, every day, 24/7/365 are not going to hell for that.

 

[TMS]

Still a boastful work.

No
I serve God because I love Him

Don't judge my motives.

Read all of Daniel 3

Dan 3:16-18
16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter. 17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. 18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

 

[Davidstarr]

Sorry you have not been able to find anyplace in the New Testament that says we are to only honor and worship God on Saturday
No, we are to abide in Christ resting in Him all day, every day, 24/7/365



And yet there are zero instructions in the New Testament telling Christians to only honor and worship God on Saturday and there are zero warnings in the New Testament telling us those that abide in Christ resting in Him all day, every day, 24/7/365 are going to hell for refusing to only honor and worship God on Saturday.

Romans 14:5-6 - One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Colossians 2:16 - So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,

Counsel of Jerusalem in Acts 15 - The Lord did not lead or instruct the Apostles to require Christians to to only honor and worship God on Saturday. That means Christians are free to abide in Christ resting in Him all day, every day, 24/7/365

If you choose to only honor and worship God on Saturday, then you go do that.
Those of us who abide in Christ resting in Him all day, every day, 24/7/365 are not going to hell for that.

You don't seem to understand.
I'm not talking about worshiping God on only one day of the week.

 

[ScooterJackson]

I'm not talking about worshiping God on only one day of the week.

That's what you sabbath people do is only honor and worship God on Saturday.
If you honor and worship God other days of the week it's not approved by the Sabbath Keepers Union
You don't want to tick off the SKU.

 

[TMS]

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Michael dared Not bring an accusation against the devil

Which means you believe that Almighty God was afraid to rebuke the devil.

What Lord was the Great I AM calling upon in order to rebuke satan?

SDA that teach Michael is Jesus are definitely a cult

I want to say soooo much.... but I'm not getting side tracked.

Jud 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Jesus didn't bring a railing accusation against Satan, Jesus simply said.. "the Lord rebuke thee".

Another words Jesus didn't get into an argument with the devil He just rebuked the devil.

I'm taking Moses regardless....

 

[TMS]

The fault of the old covenant was that it could not bring life.
The New Covenant can and does bring life because of it's High Priest, Jesus Christ.

By faith in the coming Messiah the old pointed to Jesus.
By faith in Jesus the new points to Jesus.

The old system of blood offering did not save people. But Jesus's blood does.

 

[ScooterJackson]

By faith in the coming Messiah the old pointed to Jesus.
By faith in Jesus the new points to Jesus.

The old system of blood offering did not save people. But Jesus's blood does.

And still, the old covenant could not bring life.
If it could have there would have been no need for a New Covenant.

 

[TMS]

. He did not give the Gentiles that same command? Why? Because that command is part of the Mt. Sinai Covenant.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

I'm adopted in by Christ.

I'm not a gentile.

 

[Davidstarr]

I want to say soooo much.... but I'm not getting side tracked.

Jud 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Jesus didn't bring a railing accusation against Satan, Jesus simply said.. "the Lord rebuke thee".

Another words Jesus didn't get into an argument with the devil He just rebuked the devil.

I'm taking Moses regardless....

I agree.
Keep in mind that some people think Satan got there first and wanted to animate Moses' body in some way to use it as an idol.
But that cannot be true.
Deut 34:5-6 shows that God buried him in a secret place in the land of Moab.
It would not be much of a secret if Satan knew about it.

That means Michael got there first.
So why would God want a dead man's body?
The only possibility is to resurrect Moses. Who but God could perform such a deed?
Once Satan saw this he wanted to keep Michael from taking Moses.
Satan is the accuser. He would have pointed out Moses' sins.
But Michael would not contend with him. Just simply rebuked him.