I made a new bible translation and ask for feedback

[CayHasselmann]

At https://thecanonicalbible.com/, I have translated the bible with the books listed in the canon in the form existing 397 CE into English, using the papyri and codices that are nowadays all digitized. In 397 the bible was only existing in ancient greek. All improvements later were however done differently by the various churches and denominations. So this is the english translation of the original "source code".
As I have done the collection of all fragments and the translation mostly by myself, as there are few christians interested enough in the "source code", please let me know of any mistakes I have made?

Thanks

Cay

 

[BartholomewB]

At https://thecanonicalbible.com/, I have translated the bible with the books listed in the canon in the form existing 397 CE into English, using the papyri and codices that are nowadays all digitized. In 397 the bible was only existing in ancient greek. All improvements later were however done differently by the various churches and denominations. So this is the english translation of the original "source code".
As I have done the collection of all fragments and the translation mostly by myself, as there are few christians interested enough in the "source code", please let me know of any mistakes I have made?

Thanks

Cay

Nehemiah and Esther seem to be missing. Possibly others. You don't seem to be following any of the usual canonical orders.

 

[CayHasselmann]

Nehemiah and Esther seem to be missing. Possibly others. You don't seem to be following any of the usual canonical orders.

There are part of 2 Esdras and where first later put in serate books. At time of the Canonization they were part of 2 Esdras. This translation and structure follows the canon of 397 CE acepted by all christions. Today we have several canons 4 mayor ones https://biblecanon.org/canons/ and several others.

 

[GWH]

1In the beginning God made the heaven and the earth.

2And the earth was invisible and unformed, and darkness was over the abyss, and a spirit of God was borne over the water.

3And God said, "Let light come into being." And light came into being.

4And God saw the light, that it was good. And God separated between the light and between the darkness.

5And God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, one day.

6And God said, "Let a firmament come into being in the midst of the water, and let it be a divider between water and water." And it became so.

7And God made the firmament, and God separated between the water that was beneath the firmament and between the water that was above the firmament.

8And God called the firmament "heaven." And God saw that it was good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a second day.

9And God said, "Let the water beneath the heaven be gathered into one gathering, and let the dry land appear." And it became so. And the water beneath the heaven was gathered into their gatherings, and the dry land appeared.

10And God called the dry land "earth," and the collections of the waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

11And God said, "Let the earth sprout forth herbage of grass, sowing seed according to kind and according to likeness, and fruit-bearing tree producing fruit, whose seed is in it according to kind upon the earth." And it became so.

12And the earth brought forth herbage of grass, sowing seed according to kind and according to likeness, and fruit-bearing tree producing fruit, whose seed is in it according to kind upon the earth. And God saw that it was good.

13And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a third day.

14And God said, "Let luminaries come into being in the firmament of the heaven for illumination of the earth, to separate between the day and between the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and for years,

15and let them be for illumination in the firmament of the heaven so as to shine upon the earth." And it became so.

16And God made the two great luminaries, the great luminary for rule of the day and the lesser luminary for rule of the night, and the stars.

17And God placed them in the firmament of the heaven so as to shine upon the earth

18and to rule the day and the night and to separate between the light and between the darkness. And God saw that it was good.

19And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a fourth day.

20And God said, "Let the waters bring forth creeping things of living souls, and winged things flying over the earth along the firmament of the heaven." And it became so.

21And God made the great sea-monsters and every soul of living creeping creatures, which the waters brought forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying thing according to kind. And God saw that they were good.

22And God blessed them, saying, "Increase and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let the winged things multiply upon the earth."

23And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a fifth day.

24And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living soul according to kind: four-footed things and creeping things and wild beasts of the earth according to kind." And it became so.

25And God made the wild beasts of the earth according to kind and the cattle according to kind and all the creeping things of the earth according to their kind. And God saw that they were good.

26And God said, "Let us make man according to our image and according to likeness, and let them rule the fish of the sea and the winged things of the heaven and the cattle and all the earth and all the creeping things that creep upon the earth."

27And God made man; according to the image of God he made him; male and female he made them.

28And God blessed them, saying, "Increase and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and rule the fish of the sea and the winged things of the heaven and all the cattle and all the earth and all the creeping things that creep upon the earth."

29And God said, "Behold, I have given you every sowable grass, sowing seed, which is upon all the earth, and every tree that has in itself fruit of sowable seed — it shall be to you for food

30and to all the wild beasts of the earth and to all the winged things of the heaven and to every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth, which has in itself a soul of life, every green grass for food." And it became so.

31And God saw all things, as many as he had made, and behold, they were exceedingly good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.

I see no problem/no significant difference with the NIV other than in v. 2 you say "a spirit" instead of "the Spirit".
Also, bara in verse 1 should be translated as "created" to distinguish it from asah in verse 7.

 

[CayHasselmann]

1In the beginning God made the heaven and the earth.

2And the earth was invisible and unformed, and darkness was over the abyss, and a spirit of God was borne over the water.

3And God said, "Let light come into being." And light came into being.

4And God saw the light, that it was good. And God separated between the light and between the darkness.

5And God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, one day.

6And God said, "Let a firmament come into being in the midst of the water, and let it be a divider between water and water." And it became so.

7And God made the firmament, and God separated between the water that was beneath the firmament and between the water that was above the firmament.

8And God called the firmament "heaven." And God saw that it was good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a second day.

9And God said, "Let the water beneath the heaven be gathered into one gathering, and let the dry land appear." And it became so. And the water beneath the heaven was gathered into their gatherings, and the dry land appeared.

10And God called the dry land "earth," and the collections of the waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

11And God said, "Let the earth sprout forth herbage of grass, sowing seed according to kind and according to likeness, and fruit-bearing tree producing fruit, whose seed is in it according to kind upon the earth." And it became so.

12And the earth brought forth herbage of grass, sowing seed according to kind and according to likeness, and fruit-bearing tree producing fruit, whose seed is in it according to kind upon the earth. And God saw that it was good.

13And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a third day.

14And God said, "Let luminaries come into being in the firmament of the heaven for illumination of the earth, to separate between the day and between the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and for years,

15and let them be for illumination in the firmament of the heaven so as to shine upon the earth." And it became so.

16And God made the two great luminaries, the great luminary for rule of the day and the lesser luminary for rule of the night, and the stars.

17And God placed them in the firmament of the heaven so as to shine upon the earth

18and to rule the day and the night and to separate between the light and between the darkness. And God saw that it was good.

19And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a fourth day.

20And God said, "Let the waters bring forth creeping things of living souls, and winged things flying over the earth along the firmament of the heaven." And it became so.

21And God made the great sea-monsters and every soul of living creeping creatures, which the waters brought forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying thing according to kind. And God saw that they were good.

22And God blessed them, saying, "Increase and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let the winged things multiply upon the earth."

23And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a fifth day.

24And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living soul according to kind: four-footed things and creeping things and wild beasts of the earth according to kind." And it became so.

25And God made the wild beasts of the earth according to kind and the cattle according to kind and all the creeping things of the earth according to their kind. And God saw that they were good.

26And God said, "Let us make man according to our image and according to likeness, and let them rule the fish of the sea and the winged things of the heaven and the cattle and all the earth and all the creeping things that creep upon the earth."

27And God made man; according to the image of God he made him; male and female he made them.

28And God blessed them, saying, "Increase and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and rule the fish of the sea and the winged things of the heaven and all the cattle and all the earth and all the creeping things that creep upon the earth."

29And God said, "Behold, I have given you every sowable grass, sowing seed, which is upon all the earth, and every tree that has in itself fruit of sowable seed — it shall be to you for food

30and to all the wild beasts of the earth and to all the winged things of the heaven and to every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth, which has in itself a soul of life, every green grass for food." And it became so.

31And God saw all things, as many as he had made, and behold, they were exceedingly good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.

I see no problem/no significant difference with the NIV other than in v. 2 you say "a spirit" instead of "the Spirit".
Also, bara in verse 1 should be translated as "created" to distinguish it from asah in verse 7.

Thanks

 

[BartholomewB]

There are part of 2 Esdras and where first later put in serate books. At time of the Canonization they were part of 2 Esdras. This translation and structure follows the canon of 397 CE acepted by all christions. Today we have several canons 4 mayor ones https://biblecanon.org/canons/ and several others.

Your Esdras II includes the whole of Ezra and Nehemiah but (as far as I can see) nothing else. Where can I read Esther in your translation?

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Also, bara in verse 1 should be translated as "created" to distinguish it from asah in verse 7.

True, the term 'create' infers by implication a divine act of bringing something into existence which has never existed in either substance or form prior to it being brought into existence whereas "made' or 'make' is the act of taking something already in existence into changing it into something different.

The term 'create' also represents that except for the divine act which brought it into existence, it could not have came into existence by any natural process, or in other words it wasn't brought into existence before it would have naturally occurred if given enough time.

Thus, the physical body of space which forms the expanse we call the universe in which the celestial bodies abode did not exist prior to the divine act which brought it into existence.

 

[CayHasselmann]

That is where we put our doctrine and teaching over the bible. That has lead to many parts of the bible being rewritten as to good intensions, but is a deviation then real the word of God or our shortcomming to understand the fullness of God?

 

[GWH]

That is where we put our doctrine and teaching over the bible. That has lead to many parts of the bible being rewritten as to good intensions, but is a deviation then real the word of God or our shortcomming to understand the fullness of God?

The antecedent of "that" is unclear, so please specify what you view as wrong without putting your own good intentions over the Bible. Thanks. I guess we might get to other parts of the Bible eventually if this thread lasts long enough, but I suggest that we finish discussing Genesis 1 first.

 

[OMC]

At https://thecanonicalbible.com/, I have translated the bible with the books listed in the canon in the form existing 397 CE into English, using the papyri and codices that are nowadays all digitized. In 397 the bible was only existing in ancient greek. All improvements later were however done differently by the various churches and denominations. So this is the english translation of the original "source code".
As I have done the collection of all fragments and the translation mostly by myself, as there are few christians interested enough in the "source code", please let me know of any mistakes I have made?

Your project is impressive, but the only honest way to evaluate mistakes in a translation of the Greek biblical corpus is to check your renderings against the actual LXX critical editions, the major uncials (especially Codex Sinaiticus, Codex Vaticanus, Codex Alexandrinus), and the standard lexica (LSJ, BDAG), because the text you posted from Genesis 1 shows you’re translating the Septuagint, but with several interpretive expansions (“invisible and unformed,” “borne over the water,” “come into being”) that reflect Brenton‑style English choices, not the raw Greek; the danger is that when you say you’ve translated “the original source code,” you’re implying the Greek of 397 CE was a single fixed text, but the manuscript tradition is plural, with variant readings, orthographic differences, and occasional lacunae, meaning any translation must disclose which base text it follows and how it resolves variants; without that apparatus, the mistakes aren’t in your English wording but in the assumption that the 397 CE canon existed as one uniform Greek Bible rather than a collection of manuscripts with differences, so the correction you need is methodological, not grammatical.

 

[RWRiley]

Your project is impressive, but the only honest way to evaluate mistakes in a translation of the Greek biblical corpus is to check your renderings against the actual LXX critical editions, the major uncials (especially Codex Sinaiticus, Codex Vaticanus, Codex Alexandrinus), and the standard lexica (LSJ, BDAG), because the text you posted from Genesis 1 shows you’re translating the Septuagint, but with several interpretive expansions (“invisible and unformed,” “borne over the water,” “come into being”) that reflect Brenton‑style English choices, not the raw Greek; the danger is that when you say you’ve translated “the original source code,” you’re implying the Greek of 397 CE was a single fixed text, but the manuscript tradition is plural, with variant readings, orthographic differences, and occasional lacunae, meaning any translation must disclose which base text it follows and how it resolves variants; without that apparatus, the mistakes aren’t in your English wording but in the assumption that the 397 CE canon existed as one uniform Greek Bible rather than a collection of manuscripts with differences, so the correction you need is methodological, not grammatical.

I would be interested in seeing how you have translated the Pauline Epistles ... and the Pastoral epistles, as well ... Perhaps you could start out with just showing me your reading of the simple epistle of Philemon ... I assume that your translation has some sort of apparatus, to help the reader follow along, seeing how and why you treat the words and phrasing they way you do? Tell you what ... I will show you my opening of this epistle, along with the first few verses ... you take a look at it, and provide me with the same in your translation, and we can see where each us is coming from ...I will try and post it here, but this might be one of those give and takes that need to use the internet email for more properly showing each other our efforts ... lets see how this works ..

Philemon

The Layman’s Companion Version (LCV) is compiled from “The New Testament in The Original Greek - Byzantine Textform” (RP2026), by Maurice Robinson and William Pierpont. All verse variants are noted (asterisked*) between this, and ten other Greek critical texts*GCT (e.g., “Greek New Testament SBL Edition” SBLGNT), by Michael Holmes (as reviewed against Tregelles; Westcott and Hort; Tisehendorf; and, the Nestle-Aland Novum Testamentum). Each verse is presented in an expanded format: first there's a suggested English reading; then, the Greek and transliterated Greek; and then, a word-for-word analysis (following the original syntax), including Strong’s numbering, and the applicable parsing/ inflection coding. Second person, plural pronouns are double underlined; added words are [bracketed]; iota subscripts are indicated via a subscripted plus (+); also, horizontals (||) are included to show where Nomina Sacra (NS) abbreviations have been editorially enhanced; all Old Testament (OT) quotations are capatilized; and verses, which were added to the original Pauline text (interpolations by later scribes), are italitized and contained in [[double]] brackets This is not your common English reading, but rather a consistently concordant, calque (hyper-literalistic), translation.


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1:1* Paulos (bonded-prisoner of~Anointed Yeshua), and the brother Timotheos: Unto~Philemon (the beloved and together-working [brother] of~ours);



Παῦλος δέσμιος χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ, καὶ Τιμόθεος ὁ ἀδελφός, Φιλήμονι τῷ ἀγαπητῷ καὶ συνεργῷ ἡμῶν,



paulos desmios ||christou ||iEsou kai timotheos ho adelphos philEmoni tOi+ agapEtOi+ kai sunergOi+ hEmOn



Paulos/ Paul {3972 N-NSM} a~bonded-prisoner {1198 N-NSM} of~an~Anointed/ of~a~Christ {5547 N-GSM} of~Yeshua/ of~Jesus {2424 N-GSM} and {2532 CONJ} Timotheos/ Timothy {5095 N-NSM} the [one] {3588 T-NSM} a~brother {0080 N-NSM} unto~Philemon {5371 N-DSM} unto~the [one] {3588 T-DSM} unto~a~beloved [one] {0027 A-DSM} and {2532 CONJ} unto~a~together-working [one] {4904 A-DSM} of~ours {1473 P-1GP}





1:2* and, unto~the beloved Apphia, and Archippus (the together-warrior of~ours); and, unto~the congregation according-to house of~yours:



καὶ Ἀπφίᾳ τῇ ἀγαπητῇ, καὶ Ἀρχίππῳ τῷ συστρατιώτῃ ἡμῶν, καὶ τῇ κατʼ οἶκόν σου ἐκκλησίᾳ·



kai apphiai+ tEi+ agapEtEi+ kai archippOi+ tOi+ sustratiOtEi+ hEmOn kai tEi+ kat oikon sou ekklEsiai+



and {2532 CONJ} unto~Apphia {0682 N-DSF} unto~the [one] {3588 T-DSF} unto~a~beloved [one] {0027 A-DSF} and {2532 CONJ} unto~Archippos/ unto~Archippus {0751 N-DSM} unto~the [one] {3588 T-DSM} unto~a~together-warrior {4961 N-DSM} of~ours/ of~us {1473 P-1GP} and {2532 CONJ} unto~the [one] {3588 T-DSF} according-to {2596 PREP} to~a~house {3624 N-ASM} of~yours {1473 P-2GS} unto~a~congregation/ unto~an~out-called {1577 N-DSF}





1:3 Grace unto~you, and peace from God our Father, and [from] Lord Yeshua Anointed,



χάρις ὑμῖν καὶ εἰρήνη ἀπὸ θεοῦ πατρὸς ἡμῶν καὶ κυρίου Ἰησοῦ χριστοῦ.



charis humin kai eirEnE apo ||theou ||patros hEmOn kai ||kuriou ||iEsou ||christou



a~grace {5485 N-NSF} unto~you {1473 P-2DP} and {2532 CONJ} a~peace {1515 N-NSF} from {0575 PREP} of~a~God {2316 N-GSM} of~a~Father {3962 N-GSM} of~our {1473 P-1GP} and {2532 CONJ} of~a~Lord {2962 N-GSM} of~Yeshua/ of~Jesus {2424 N-GSM} of~an~Anointed/ of~a~Christ {5547 N-GSM}

 

[OMC]

I would be interested in seeing how you have translated the Pauline Epistles ... and the Pastoral epistles, as well ... Perhaps you could start out with just showing me your reading of the simple epistle of Philemon ... I assume that your translation has some sort of apparatus, to help the reader follow along, seeing how and why you treat the words and phrasing they way you do? Tell you what ... I will show you my opening of this epistle, along with the first few verses ... you take a look at it, and provide me with the same in your translation, and we can see where each us is coming from ...I will try and post it here, but this might be one of those give and takes that need to use the internet email for more properly showing each other our efforts ... lets see how this works ..

Philemon

The Layman’s Companion Version (LCV) is compiled from “The New Testament in The Original Greek - Byzantine Textform” (RP2026), by Maurice Robinson and William Pierpont. All verse variants are noted (asterisked*) between this, and ten other Greek critical texts*GCT (e.g., “Greek New Testament SBL Edition” SBLGNT), by Michael Holmes (as reviewed against Tregelles; Westcott and Hort; Tisehendorf; and, the Nestle-Aland Novum Testamentum). Each verse is presented in an expanded format: first there's a suggested English reading; then, the Greek and transliterated Greek; and then, a word-for-word analysis (following the original syntax), including Strong’s numbering, and the applicable parsing/ inflection coding. Second person, plural pronouns are double underlined; added words are [bracketed]; iota subscripts are indicated via a subscripted plus (+); also, horizontals (||) are included to show where Nomina Sacra (NS) abbreviations have been editorially enhanced; all Old Testament (OT) quotations are capatilized; and verses, which were added to the original Pauline text (interpolations by later scribes), are italitized and contained in [[double]] brackets This is not your common English reading, but rather a consistently concordant, calque (hyper-literalistic), translation.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



1:1* Paulos (bonded-prisoner of~Anointed Yeshua), and the brother Timotheos: Unto~Philemon (the beloved and together-working [brother] of~ours);



Παῦλος δέσμιος χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ, καὶ Τιμόθεος ὁ ἀδελφός, Φιλήμονι τῷ ἀγαπητῷ καὶ συνεργῷ ἡμῶν,



paulos desmios ||christou ||iEsou kai timotheos ho adelphos philEmoni tOi+ agapEtOi+ kai sunergOi+ hEmOn



Paulos/ Paul {3972 N-NSM} a~bonded-prisoner {1198 N-NSM} of~an~Anointed/ of~a~Christ {5547 N-GSM} of~Yeshua/ of~Jesus {2424 N-GSM} and {2532 CONJ} Timotheos/ Timothy {5095 N-NSM} the [one] {3588 T-NSM} a~brother {0080 N-NSM} unto~Philemon {5371 N-DSM} unto~the [one] {3588 T-DSM} unto~a~beloved [one] {0027 A-DSM} and {2532 CONJ} unto~a~together-working [one] {4904 A-DSM} of~ours {1473 P-1GP}





1:2* and, unto~the beloved Apphia, and Archippus (the together-warrior of~ours); and, unto~the congregation according-to house of~yours:



καὶ Ἀπφίᾳ τῇ ἀγαπητῇ, καὶ Ἀρχίππῳ τῷ συστρατιώτῃ ἡμῶν, καὶ τῇ κατʼ οἶκόν σου ἐκκλησίᾳ·



kai apphiai+ tEi+ agapEtEi+ kai archippOi+ tOi+ sustratiOtEi+ hEmOn kai tEi+ kat oikon sou ekklEsiai+



and {2532 CONJ} unto~Apphia {0682 N-DSF} unto~the [one] {3588 T-DSF} unto~a~beloved [one] {0027 A-DSF} and {2532 CONJ} unto~Archippos/ unto~Archippus {0751 N-DSM} unto~the [one] {3588 T-DSM} unto~a~together-warrior {4961 N-DSM} of~ours/ of~us {1473 P-1GP} and {2532 CONJ} unto~the [one] {3588 T-DSF} according-to {2596 PREP} to~a~house {3624 N-ASM} of~yours {1473 P-2GS} unto~a~congregation/ unto~an~out-called {1577 N-DSF}





1:3 Grace unto~you, and peace from God our Father, and [from] Lord Yeshua Anointed,



χάρις ὑμῖν καὶ εἰρήνη ἀπὸ θεοῦ πατρὸς ἡμῶν καὶ κυρίου Ἰησοῦ χριστοῦ.



charis humin kai eirEnE apo ||theou ||patros hEmOn kai ||kuriou ||iEsou ||christou



a~grace {5485 N-NSF} unto~you {1473 P-2DP} and {2532 CONJ} a~peace {1515 N-NSF} from {0575 PREP} of~a~God {2316 N-GSM} of~a~Father {3962 N-GSM} of~our {1473 P-1GP} and {2532 CONJ} of~a~Lord {2962 N-GSM} of~Yeshua/ of~Jesus {2424 N-GSM} of~an~Anointed/ of~a~Christ {5547 N-GSM}

I haven't produced a full translation with the kind of detailed apparatus you've developed, so I can't offer a one-for-one comparison in terms of parsing codes, Strong's numbers, transliteration, and textual notes.
My interest is more in evaluating whether a translation accurately reflects the Greek text and whether its translation philosophy is consistently applied.
Looking at your sample from Philemon, I can see that you've adopted a highly concordant approach, attempting to preserve Greek forms and lexical relationships in English through renderings such as "bonded-prisoner," "together-working," and "together-warrior." That's useful for study, although I'd be interested in discussing where a strictly etymological rendering may differ from how a word functions in Koine usage.

For example, my reading of Philemon 1:1-3 would be:

1 Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus, and Timothy our brother, to Philemon our beloved fellow worker,

2 and to Apphia our sister, and to Archippus our fellow soldier, and to the church in your house:

3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

What would interest me most is not whether our English wording is identical, but why certain choices were made.
For instance, what criteria led you to translate συνεργός as "together-working" rather than "fellow worker," or ἐκκλησία as "congregation/out-called" rather than simply leaving it as "assembly" or "church"?
Those decisions reveal a translation philosophy, and that's where the most productive discussion usually begins.
If you're willing to post more of Philemon, I'd be glad to examine the translation choices verse by verse.