@OMC, maybe that's why I PLAY UP the seed of Isaac in Romans 9:7-8 and PLAY DOWN the adopted Gentile Christians to make my points too, but people need to read each of our responses carefully to see where BOTH fit.
Replacement theology? Yes or No.
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@OMC, maybe that's why I PLAY UP the seed of Isaac in Romans 9:7-8 and PLAY DOWN the adopted Gentile Christians to make my points too, but people need to read each of our responses carefully to see where BOTH fit.
Everything in 21-22 is new covenant. The faithful remnant are those saved by grace through faith. The unilateral covenant is with the seed; not ethnic Israel, and not old covenant.
The book of Revelation deals primarily with the destruction of Jerusalem, the temple, and the old covenant. God is not dwelling in the midst of Israel any longer. He now dwells in His people.
No that is not the debate.
Both sides believe all saved individuals are made righteous via Jesus.
The debate involves RT BELIEVING ERRONEOUSLY that the Jews are not only cast away permanently, but also inserts that God will not approach them differently AS A PEOPLE in the end, during the GT.
THAT is the debate.
Nobody is know of believes the Jews are saved as a people outside of Jesus.
He deals with them ;
1) through the 7 yr gt.
2) the gt is the plow to prepare for his appearance TO THE JEWS AS A NATION, in Rev 14.
3) RT has no idea of the purpose of the GT, or the dynamic of 1st and second born....no clue.
4) ever wonder why the First miracle HAD TO BE AT A JEWISH WEDDING,
Hint...last is first and first is last in Gods timing.
While heaven is framing a picture of a dynamic outside of your educated mind, you are missing it entirely, with side arguments, and trying to pass yourself off as superior to any challenger.
You reply is always the same.
" what you need to prove is...."
" I am not using assumptions but scripture"
...and 7 or 10 more dances around the bible you are trying mentally to connect the dots.
Yes indeed.
A no brainer actually.
But the amil tortures it until it submits to their strange picture frame.
You forget that God changed Jacob's name to Israel. The "remnant" of Israel are those saved through covenant promises (Romans 9:7-8) and the refining of fire (Zechariah 13:9).
While it appears as though the book of Revelation deals primarily with the destruction of Jerusalem, I pointed out the verses to you showing how God will restore it again for the purpose of the Millennial Kingdom period. It definitely shows you that God will continue to dwell in Jerusalem throughout the Millennial Kingdom period.
In the Millennial Kingdom period, not all people are indwelled by the Holy Spirit. The Bible shows that while Israel/Jerusalem is living in peace and God/Jesus knocks down every nation and person that tries to come up against them in Isaiah 54, that there will indeed be another rebellious people that come out of it to prepare battle against the saints after Satan is released from the Abyss in Revelation 20. The FINAL battle of Gog & Magog.
1) when I injected the 144,000 you could not get a bearing on who they were.
2) Paul called the Jews his brethren.
3) your unpacking of romans chapters 9-11 has a spin on it that God is simply feeding Jews a little at a time into the bride of Christ via a few salvations.
When in fact it is a gathering of the Jews in the millions when they see their messiah MID 7YR TRB, IN REV 14
"Grafted back in"
You also need to note that if it is justified trickle of Jews saved here and there, in rom 11, then why does God say: " if I cut them off, how much more will you be cut off if you also disobey"????
Hello....that speaks of God seeing us and them as 2 covenants.
Lay down the ai and address that in your words.
So, you're looking at this as the last (the Christians/ the second made unto to God) will be made the FIRST in ruling over the Millennial Kingdom of God/Jesus.
AND
You're looking at this as the last (Christians) will ENTER Heaven FIRST before the Millennial Kingdom on earth is played out and then the seed of Isaac enters into it?
Am I getting that right?
Tell us again how you see this in connection with the timing of who's first in the resurrection because I forgot, but I like where your thinking is going.
That's not entirely what the Bible says. It says that God made promises with Abraham and through Isaac that He intended to keep forever.
God saves and sustains the seed of Isaac through covenant promises by establishing an everlasting, unilateral guarantee rooted in His own faithfulness rather than human merit or mere abstract faith. This is demonstrated through divine election, where God chose Isaac over Ishmael before birth to fulfill the covenant, proving that salvation depends on sovereign grace and God's initiative, not human works.
1. Unconditional Assurance
Genesis 17:7 — "And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you."The Hebrew word for "establish" is qûm (קוּם, #06965) in the Hiphil stem. As the Free Bible Commentary notes: "This VERB in the Hiphil stem is used with oaths to assure their fulfillment (cf. Gen. 6:18; 17:19; Exod. 6:4; Lev. 26:9; Ezek. 16:62). YHWH is committing Himself to the completion of His promises." The REV Bible Commentary adds: "This covenant with Abraham is something God initiates, something He maintains, and something He brings to fulfillment" — resting entirely on the Lord's burden, independent of human performance.
Genesis 17:19 — "But God said, 'No. Sarah your wife will bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.'"
The Video Bible Commentary observes: "God's emphatic 'No' asserts divine sovereignty — He defines the terms of the promise." The repetition of "I will" (15 times in Genesis 17 alone) shows this is initiated and sustained by God alone.
2. Generational Continuity
Genesis 26:3–4 — "I will give you and your descendants all these lands, and I will confirm the oath I swore to your father Abraham. I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars of heaven and give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed."The Bible Study on Genesis 26 (Coulter) explains: "God also reaffirms the covenant that He made with Abraham, and promises to bless Isaac and his descendants with the land, the seed, and the blessing. God reminds Isaac that He is a covenant-keeping God, and that He will not break His oath or His word."
Genesis 26:24 — "The LORD appeared to him that night and said, 'I am the God of your father Abraham. Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bless you and will make your descendants as numerous as the stars of the sky for the sake of my servant Abraham.'"
The BibleSays commentary notes: "God reaffirmed the covenant first made with Abraham, pledging the same commitment to Isaac" — the covenant people survive even when individual members fail (as Isaac himself does in vv. 7–13, deceiving Abimelech about Rebekah).
Genesis 22:17–18 — "I will surely bless you and will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies. Through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have listened to me."
The Forerunner Commentary emphasizes: "God does not condition His fulfilling this promise on any expected behavior by Abraham. Note, too, that this promise has the effect of an oath, in that God swears by Himself."
3. Irrevocable Oath (Double Guarantee)
Genesis 22:16 — "By myself I have sworn, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son."Ellicott's Commentary: "This solemn interposition of an oath (Hebrews 6:17), of which the present is the sole instance in Holy Scripture, plainly indicates that this trial of Abraham's faith was of no common kind." Gill's Exposition: "Aben Ezra observes is a great oath, and abides for ever; for because he could swear by no greater, he swore by himself, his own nature, perfections, and life."
Hebrews 6:17–18 — "So when God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of the promise, he guaranteed it with an oath, so that they could be perfectly sure that no one could overturn what had been confirmed by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie. Therefore it is with great confidence that we who have fled to take refuge in the hope set before us may seize on it."
Philip Hughes (Precept Austin): "God in his goodness desired to show more convincingly, to underline, as it were, with a double assurance, the unchangeable character of his purpose; and to this end he interposed with an oath. This he did for the sake not only of Abraham but also of all the heirs of the promise, whose line starts with Abraham and continues on through Isaac."
Leon Morris: "Mesiteuo has the idea of 'mediate,' which often means 'interpose,' 'stand between.' But here the idea is rather that of 'stand as guarantor.' God appears, so to speak, in two characters, the giver of the promise and then its guarantor."
Dr. Constable's Expository Notes: "God swearing by Himself signifies that He binds His word to His character. Thus God gave Abraham double assurance that He would indeed deliver what He had promised."
Berean Bible Church (Hebrews 6:13–20): "God, then, guaranteed his trustworthiness through two immutable or unchangeable things: His word of promise and his oath in confirmation of that word."
With all of that said, it shows that God/Jesus made an irrevocable promise to Abraham and Isaac. The Old Testament says that God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (renamed Israel). Through these three, God will redeem the genetic seed of Israel. Just like the rest of us Gentile Christians who are preserved by Grace through Faith, that was promised and given to us by God. We didn't receive faith on our own. God gave that to us as well, not just the grace that comes with it.
It's entirely true. Salvation has always been and will forever be by grace through faith.
I'll repeat again:
God saves and sustains the seed of Isaac through covenant promises by establishing an everlasting, unilateral guarantee rooted in His own faithfulness rather than human merit or mere abstract faith. This is demonstrated through divine election, where God chose Isaac over Ishmael before birth to fulfill the covenant, proving that salvation depends on sovereign grace and God's initiative, not human works.
I don't disagree. God is a covenant God. But the promises are in the seed...Christ. Thus, all the promises of God are in Him yes and in Him amen.
Surely the gravitas and import of this profundity escape him......
Zec 12:8
In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
I know for a surety that post # 4,515 applies to you as well, among many many others on this thread.
Did I mention that Joel 2 is realized and amplified in Rev 9?
That's because Jesus is God and always has been God. He's the one who made the promises to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the rest of us who have lived thereafter. So, there really is no difference. Promises weren't just made by Him through His human flesh, but through His spiritual flesh as well, before He incarnated into human flesh.
So, are you still going to say that Revelation shows God/Jesus ending the covenant and that He will no longer live with His people Israel now? Or have you changed your view on that?
The intent of @OMC is to DISCONNECT the dots.
The fact is that the Scripture is A UNIFIED WHOLE and EVERY part is connected to one another and is also an illustration of Christ, His work and His character and His plan of Salvation.
Many others such as @Cameron143 and @HeIsHere simply ignore and deny vast tracts of Scripture to suit the same nefarious ends.
No sane rational mind could fail to rightly understand the overarching theme of Romans 11.
The fact is that the Nation Israel is the possessor of the covenant, and the gentiles of this present INTERREGNUM CHURCH AGE are merely a temporary beneficiary of same. Basically, the gentiles are incidental to this New Covenant, which will only reach its intended fulfillment yet future when corporate Israel rectifies their ancient breach, and enters the New Covenant as a people in like manner as Sinai.
The early Jewish Church wrestled with gentile inclusion all the way to Acts 15 in fact. They were dazed and confused by gentile inclusion.
Rom 11:1
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:12
Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
Rom 11:15
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Rom 11:18
Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:29
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.