If you obey the two greatest commandments then you have fulfilled the rest, period.
What if repentance is not about feeling guilty, regretful or ashamed? How do you define repentance?
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It means "change of mind", in a fancy term, "paradigm shift." What you described is more like "penance".
" The greatest two commandments are much easier said than done, so thankfully God gave us the rest on(f) the Law of Moses to flesh out what it looks like to correctly obey them." NO, God gave us the Holy Spirit to "flesh out" what He commands and that is to love Him and our fellow man. There is nothing inherently wrong with TRYING to satisfy the requirements of the ten commandments, just as there is nothing inherently wrong with keeping the Jewish feasts, except if you think that you will gain anything from God for it, no righteousness or justification comes from doing them. But you can do them BECAUSE you HAVE ALREADY, through Christ, been MADE righteous and HAVE BEEN justified by His blood. Again, just love God and your fellow man. Trying to keep the whole law is a yoke of bondage. Instead, Jesus said" Take MY YOKE upon you, and learn of Me; for I AM meek and lowly in heart: and you shall find rest unto your souls. For MY YOKE is EASY and My burden is LIGHT" Matt. 11: 29-30. Get some rest for your soul Soyeong.
Then that is a pretty big “if”. If someone refused to obey all of God’s instructions for how to love Him and our neighbor, then they would have no grounds for thinking that they loved God and their neighbor or for thinking that they have fulfilled the instructions that they refused to obey. Love fulfills the Law of Moses because everything in it is in regard to how to love. The reason why the commandments to love God and our neighbor are the greatest two commandments is because they are inclusive of all of the other commandments, so there is no part of the Law of Moses that someone can exclude on the basis that they just need to love God and their neighbor.
The fact that the Spirit leads us to love God and our neighbor does not mean that it is not also true that the Law of Moses fleshes out what it means to love God and our neighbor, especially because the Spirit leads us to love God and our neighbor in accordance with what the Law of Moses fleshes out.
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has the character traits that the Law of Moses was given in order to teach us how to embody and God’s character traits are the fruits of the Spirit, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it (Ezekiel 36:26-27).
The way to love God is also by embodying His character traits, such as the way to love justice is by being a doer of justice, the way to love holiness is by being a doer of His instructions for how to be holy as He is holy, and so forth. In other words, the goal of everything that God has commanded is to teach how to love different aspects of His character traits, which is why the Bible repeatedly states that the way to love God is by obeying His commandments. If someone refuses to obey God’s instructions for how to be holy as He is holy, then holiness is an aspect of God that they do not love.
The OT does not leave the way to love God undefined so that people in the OT were free to love Gos in whatever way they saw fit and He would have to be happy with what He got. There is a difference between a husband loving his wife in whatever way he sees fit, such as bringing her coffee that is a flavor that he enjoys, and loving his wife in the way that she wants to be loved, such as with him being careful to get all of the many details of her coffee correct so that it is exactly the way that she likes it. Our goal should be to love God in the way that He wants to be loved in obedience to the Law of Moses by the leading of the Spirit.
There is nothing wrong with obeying what God has commanded period and in fact it is good to do that. The Law of Moses was never give as a way of earning our righteousness, salvation, or eternal life even as the rest of having perfect obedience to it, but rather we are required to choose to be a doer of it through faith because it was given in order to teach us how to experience those gifts.
The Law of Moses is truth (Psalm 119:142) and Jesus said that is the transgression of the Law of Moses that puts us under bondage while the truth sets us free (John 8:31-36).
Jesus set a perfect example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Law of Moses, and in Matthew 11:28-30, he was inviting people to come to him for rest and to learn from him, not inviting people to come to him for rest by taking a break from following his example. Moreover, by Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where the Law of Moses is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls, but they did not want to walk in it or pay attention. Will you walk in it and pay attention?
Psalm 19:7-11
The law of the Lord is perfect,
reviving the soul;
the testimony of the Lord is sure,
making wise the simple;
8 the precepts of the Lord are right,
rejoicing the heart;
the commandment of the Lord is pure,
enlightening the eyes;
9 the fear of the Lord is clean,
enduring forever;
the rules of the Lord are true,
and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold,
even much fine gold;
sweeter also than honey
and drippings of the honeycomb.
11 Moreover, by them is your servant warned;
in keeping them there is great reward.
1.) Do you agree that the above verses accurately describe obeying the Torah?
2.) Do you agree that the Apostles thought that these verse accurately describe obeying the Torah?
3.) If so, do you agree that you should therefore share the view of obeying the Torah that those verses express?
4.) Do you agree that anyone who affirmed that the above verses accurately describe obeying the Torah should jump at the opportunity to get to obey it even if they had no obligation to do so?
5.) Can you explain how it is compatible for anyone to agree that the above verses accurately describe obeying the Torah and to also hold the position that the Torah is a yoke of bondage?
I love how our filters protect us. We really, really, need to make "religion" old and new about personally obeying God's commands. We are exactly, in so many ways, were the first 700 years of God-Man relationship we claim to be wrong. It is all about our personal faith, obedience, conversion and trust in God, IF we believe right but our commitment to God's loving principles for a just society are "not our problem because we are saved and will soon leave the earth to Satan. 55 core prophets throughout Israel's history (including figures like Moses, Abraham, David, and Elijah), biblical scholars typically focus on the 3 Major Prophets and 12 Minor Prophets (The Twelve) when analyzing specific prophetic texts condemning societal corruption.
The entire prophetic context of the Hebrew bible is not about how we personally engage with God, but how we represent God's sovereignty and call to reform our society. We want it to be all about me. It is not. The prophets railed about economic and moral failings of the CULTURE we have created and support. Thus, we collectively must love our neighbor and treasurer social harmony with God's will. We Protestants want personal salvation without bringing salvation to the widows, orphans, the sick, the oppressed, the imprisoned and the outcast, because that is their problem, "I'm good because of what I believe." Too bad for you who see in us no love, forgiveness, reconciliation, economic justice, no living image of a loving God, not light to our communities.
Jesus made it clear, you can't love God if you don't love your neighbor. One branch of Christianity provides 221,144 preschools, primary schools, and secondary schools worldwide, enrolling more than 62.1 million students providing 6.7 million students are enrolled in post-secondary and university institutions globally. Provides 5,000 hospitals and 16,000 health clinics across the globe, providing essential medical care in remote and under-resourced regions. It runs approximately 10,000 orphanages and countless local shelters, food banks, and family-support centers managed by local communities. It serves as the official international humanitarian agency of the U.S and assists hundreds of millions of people annually across more than 90 countries focusing on emergency response, agriculture, health, and peacebuilding without proselytizing.
Protestant groups have historically spearheaded major social movements, including prison reform, labor rights, and the abolition of slavery (such as Quaker and Methodist anti-slavery campaigns) while the majority of southern Christianity was willing to kill 700,000 to protect human slavery because it was "biblical."
My point is that we will be judged not only about our theological claims of salvation with or without conversion. We will also be judged about our impact on the societies we inhabit and influence/control.
“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
“No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.
“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
The Judgment: “When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32All the nations will be assembled before him, and he will separate people one from another like a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the king will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of mine, you did it for me.’
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels! For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger and you did not receive me as a guest, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not give you whatever you needed?’ Then he will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for me.’ And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Does Jesus sound anything like, "Just make a decision for Jesus and you will be saved?"
You want to follow the whole law, then have at it, but remember, you can only walk so many steps on the Sabbath, and there are about 612 others you HAVE to follow. I'll follow Gal. 5:14 " For ALL THE LAW IS FULFILLED IN ONE WORD, EVEN IN THIS; Thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself." And 1 Cor 13:4-11, to learn what that love looks like and do my best to emulate it. I believe that God would be pleased.
Had anyone actually kept the Law perfectly in the OT, it might be worth trying to keep it now.
But due to man's inability to perform perfectly in the OT, a better way has been given to mankind.
A way in which we can live in perfect accord with God.
That way, is living in Christ.
There is no verse in the New Covenant, that I have found, that says follow the Mosaic Law. I'm not saying that the Mosaic Law is wrong or evil but we have a NEW covenant, built upon the principles of the Old, but NEW nonetheless. Why is a New Covenant needed when the same can be accomplished with the Old? The Apostles were in a transitional period between the old and new covenants. Jesus mostly gave Paul revelation for the New Covenant, although the other Apostles epistles help also in our faith walk.
Since I don't know who you are posting to I won't respond in full, but if it's me, you're singing to the choir.
Change, You change. carve out the bad within yourself and fill it with Jesus.
I hear what you are saying but do you understand we live in the beast system now and if the people actually chose GOD we would all do away with this monetary system, and ever then this place is doomed. We can try to kick scream and fight as much as we want, all of this is about your soul, and what it comes down to is if Jesus KNOWS YOU... I agree we need to change everything about this beast system but do you see that most have not the slightest clue the pile of filth we are upon?
We live in a system dressed in glory but look closely and you see the devil.
Lebanon is the highest proportion of Christians in the Middle East.
Nagasaki had the highest consecration of Christians in Japan when Fat Man was dropped too.
To all who insist on following the Mosaic law what are your thoughts about this, " But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; KNOWING THIS, that the law IS NOT MADE FOR A RIGHTEOUS MAN, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for men-stealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;" 1 Tim 1-9-10. " For He(God) hath made Him(Jesus) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; THAT WE MIGHT BE MADE THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN HIM." 2 Cor. 5:21. I have been made righteous, and according to 1 Timothy 1:9-10 the law is not for me to try to follow. How about you?
Can support either of these statements with Scripture?
The Torah came with instructions for what to do when His children sinned, so it never required us to have sinless obedience. In Romans 10:5-8, Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the world of faith that we proclaim in regard to the righteousness that is by faith proclaiming that the Torah is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a cruse, so choose life! So it was presented as a possibility and as a choice, not as the need to have sinless obedience. The only reason why someone would need to have sinless obedience would be if they were going to give themselves to pay for the sins of the world - the rest of us can thankfully have our sins for given.
Christ set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Torah and in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked, so living in Christ is not a better way, but rather it is the same way as God's way. The way to live in perfect accordance with God is not by rejecting His instructions for how to do that.
Gladly...Heb. 7:19..."For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God."
Aren't ypu glad the NT writings point to our unification with the Son of God, so we can be free of sin ?
The choices were, Torah and death, or Christ and life !
The only reason to remain perfectly obedient is because we love God and our neighbor.
You are using the Torah as a license to sin.
Jesus fulfilled the Torah's presages.
He is the escape from sin, and thus it's punishments.
Except for one thing.
In the OT all men walked in and after the "flesh"...the worldly oriented mind.
In the NT, all men can walk in and after the Spirit !
Christ Jesus set an example that all men can follow.
Thanks be to God !
You notably did not answer any of my questions.
In Deuteronomy 30, it forms the basis for the New Covenant by prophesying about a time when the Israelites will return from exile, God will circumcise their hearts, and they will return to obedience to the Torah, which is what Jeremiah 31:33 and Ezekiel 36:26-27 are in regard to. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, and in Ezekiel 36:26-27, it involves God taking away our hearts of stone, giving us hearts of flesh, and sending His Spirit to lead us in obedience to the Torah, so those who want nothing to do with following Christ's example of obedience to it also want nothing to with being under the New Covenant. Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Torah by word and by example and the reason why he established the New Covenant was not in order to nullify anything that he spent his ministry teaching or so that we could continue to have the same lawlessness that caused it to be needed in the first place, but rather it still involve following the Torah.
In Hebrews 8:7-9, the fault that God found with the Mosaic Covenant was not with His righteousness or righteous laws, but rather He found fault with the people for not continuing in their covenant, so the reason why the New Covenant was needed was not in order to do way with God's righteousness and righteous laws but to do away with what was hindering us from obeying them. This is why the New Covenant involve God sending us His Son to free us from sin so that we might be free to meet the righteous requirement of the Torah (Romans 8:3-4), God taking away our hearts of stone, giving us hearts of flesh, and sending His Spirit to lead us in obedience to the Torah (Ezekiel 36:26-27), and God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts so that we will obey it (Jeremiah 31:33).
It is contradictory for someone to believe in the truth of Psalm 19:7-11 as Scripture while not wanting to follow the Torah.
A Sabbath's day's journey does not refer to a maximum number of steps that someone can take on the Sabbath but to the maximum distance that someone can travel outside of a residential area before they are leaving the city limits, which is 2,000 cubits (Numbers 35:5). Someone is not limited in how much they can walk within a residential area.
In Deuteronomy 17:18, it specifically instructs the king to write a copy of the Torah, so even if I were to do that, then it would not qualify as fulfilling that command because I am not the king, so we do not get to follow all 613 laws.
Love fulfills the law because it is showing a correct understanding of what all of the other laws are essentially about how to do. If someone feels free to commit idolatry because they think that they are only required to obey the command to love God, then they are not fulfilling the command against idolatry, and the same is true for everything else in the Torah. The Bible repeatedly states that the way to love God is by obeying His commandments, so it is impossible to love God instead of obeying His commandments. You can falsely choose to love God in whatever way you see fit or you can choose to truly love God in the way that He wants to be loved.
The way to pick up your cross daily and follow him is not by refusing to follow the example that he set for us to follow.
The only way to acquire a character trait is through faith, but what it means to have a character trait is to be a doer of works that embody that trait, so what it means for someone to be courageous is for them to be a doer of courageous works and what it means for someone to be righteous is for them to be a doer of righteous works in obedience to the Torah (1 John 3:4-7). If you try to abuse 1 Timothy 1:9-10 into saying that being a doer of righteous works is only for the unrighteous in order to justify your freedom to be a doer of unrighteous works, then you thereby become an unrighteous person that the Torah is made for. Seriously, what did those poor verses do you? Christ embodied the righteousness of God through his works by being setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Torah, so that is also the way that we have the gift of getting can to live when we are made the righteousness of God in him.
That verse notably does not support either of your statements.
The way to be unified with the Son of God is by following his example of embodying God's character traits in obedience to the Torah, which is the way to be free from sin.
No, it Moses presented them with a choice between life and death, life and a blessing for obedience to the Torah or death and a curse for disobedience, and instructed to choose life!:
Deuteronomy 30:15-20 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil. 16 If you obey the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you today, by loving the Lord your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, then you shall live and multiply, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. 17 But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today, that you shall surely perish. You shall not live long in the land that you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess. 19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, 20 loving the Lordyour God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.”
It is contradictory to choose think that the way to choose life is by choosing God's Word made flesh and that the way to choose death is by following his example of embodying Gos's Word.
All have sinned an fallen short of the God, so we all fall short of sinless obedience. Repentance is not a license to sin, but its value does mean that we are not required to be sinless. Jesus fulfilled the Torah so that we would know how to correctly obey it, but he did not fulfill is so that we would not need to follow him. The reason why Jesus fulfilled the Torah by loving his neighbor is so that we would love one another as he loved us, but he did not love our neighbor for us so that we don't have to.
God has not commanded anything that is not in accordance with walking in the Spirit, but rather His character traits are the fruits of the Spirit and the purpose of the Torah is to teach us how to embody His character traits, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it (Ezekiel 36:26-27). In Romans 8:4-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Torah. In Galatians 5:16-23, Paul contrasted the desires of the flesh with who desires of the Spirit and everything that he listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Torah while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through his works by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in the Spirit/how to walk in obedience to the Torah.