Obedience REQUIRED

[Freed18]

So it seems after looking at your reply again you have fully understood what I was indicating which I wasn't sure in my last reply which am now ? , but it looks like you would rather neglect what you've understood, with your answer, the reality here is there is over whelming scriptures that suggest being under the father first before the son is not simultaneous, and I would ask you to show me in scripture how you've come to this understanding, as guessing it's different because it's 2000 years after christ, isn't really backing your attempt to disprove what you've understood.

Also it's not wise to carry on believing and supporting a doctrine when you have clear instruction that shows you that you need to look at something, that's not wise,

Would you care to elucidate on knowing the Father before knowing the Son ?

 

[Freed18]

Once again, you confirm everything I stated about you and your error in my post, but you are simply blind to it.


As I’ve said before, you do not believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior.

If I didn't think Jesus was my Savior, I would not have gotten water baptized in His name for the remission of my past sins.
And I would never have taken to heart the admonissions and exhorations of His apostles.

 

[Freed18]

I would be careful with that statement. Every true believer has received the Holy Spirit, and Paul does say: "But we have the mind of Christ" (1 Cor. 2:16).

True, every true believer has received the gift of the Holy Ghost, after their turn from sin and baptism...just as Peter commnaded in Acts 2:38.

However, possessing the mind of Christ does not make any of us infallible in our interpretations.

Having the mind of Christ precludes misinterpretations.

The Corinthian believers had the Holy Spirit, yet Paul still corrected them on numerous issues.

Would you call adulterers and those with a me first attitude charcteristic of those in Christ ?
I don't.
They were still carnal, for crying out loud !

The Galatians had received the Spirit, yet Paul asked, "Who hath bewitched you?"
The churches in Revelation were indwelt by the Spirit, yet Christ still rebuked and corrected them.

Why do you think they had the Holy Spirit ?
Why does anyone think the disobedient have anything at all to do with Christ ?

So I would say: Thanks be to God that He has given His Spirit to His people.
Without the Holy Spirit, none of us could understand spiritual truth at all.

Doesn't that teach you that those who don't understand, (excepting very new converts), also don't have the gift of the Holy Spirit ?

But the fact that I have the Holy Spirit does not exempt me from testing my conclusions against Scripture, nor does it mean that everyone who disagrees with me lacks the Spirit.

Maybe not at first, but if they refuse to accept the teachings of one with the Holy Ghost, they just prove their separation from God.

The strongest position is not: "I have the Holy Spirit, therefore my interpretation must be correct."
Rather: "I have the Holy Spirit, therefore I should humbly submit my interpretation to the whole counsel of God's Word."
After all, sincere believers on opposite sides of many doctrinal debates have confessed Christ, possessed the Spirit, and appealed to Scripture.
The question is not who claims the Spirit, but which interpretation best fits what God has actually said.

As any interpreation from a man with the gift of the Holy Ghost perfectly aligns with God, isn't it obvious that those who disagree with that man don't have God's Spirit in them ?

 

[Freed18]

You teach salvation by works when the Bible says we are not saved by works in general. (Romans 4:2-6; 11:6; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) Works salvation is no salvation at all and all you can say is so what?

I teach obedience to the one who bought my salvation.
I do not teach we must keep the Law to be saved...just as Paul taught.
You seem to have added everything, including obedience to God, as a work of the Law.

1 John 1:8 - f we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. Those who claim sinless perfection are suffering from a terminal case of self-righteousness.

Addresses those who walk in darkness, which Pro 4:19 says is the way of the wicked.
Sinners cnnot say they have no sin.
Nor can they say they have fellowship with God, (1 John 1:6), or that they even know Him. (1 John 2:3)
However those walking in the light, (which is God in whom is no darkness-sin), can say yes to all of those things !

Not the works of the Law..circumcision, dietary rules, feast keeping, sabbath keeping, priesthoods, tithing AND also includes the moral aspect of the law

No, the law Paul taught against for salvation does not include the ten commands written on our hearts, as loving God and neighbor are encapsulated in them.
No adulterer, murderer, coveter, liar, oridolater, tc. is converted, and certainly will not be found in the book of life on the last day.

God imputes righteousness apart from works (Romans 4:6) saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His mercy He saved us (Titus 3:5) God saved us saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works. (2 Timothy 1:9)

Yes, apart from the works fo the Law...circumcision, dietary rules, etc.

Through repentance/believing in Him/faith. (Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43; 15:7-9; 26:18; Romans 3:24-26 etc..)

Amen, repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and enduring faithfully until the end !
Just as Peter said in Acts 2:38.

You continue to confuse the reality (Spirit baptism) with the picture of the reality (water baptism). Acts 2:38 must be read alongside verses like (Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) where forgiveness is explicitly tied to repentance/belief/faith and not water baptism.

I will stick with Peter's Acts 2:38 admonission, and Ananias' admonission to Saul in Acts 22:16, on the subject of water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Peter said turn from sin and get baptized, and you will get the gift of the Holy Ghost...which is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

In Acts 22:16, the cleansing happens as he calls on Christ, not by the water itself. The water is symbolic; the appeal to Christ’s name is the saving act. Romans 10:13 - For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. *Hermeneutics.

I disagree.
Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is for the remission of past sins.
Just as John's baptism remitted sins so too does baptism in the name of Jesus Christ remit past sins.

The remission of sins has three applications: 1. Literally, by the blood of Christ - Matthew 26:28 2. Experientially, by faith in Christ - Acts 26:18 3. Figuratively, by water baptism - Acts 22:16
Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - WHAT IS TRUTH: Acts 22:16--Baptism Essential for Salvation?

Obey Peter, and ignore the skeptics.

Why is the laying on of hands before receiving the Holy Spirit found in certain cases but not in every case of conversion?

It isn't a 'before' situation but a 'for' situation.
The Spirit was passed on from one man to another by the laying on of hands.

Baptismal regeneration is a false gospel.

I disagree.

Again, a symbol is not the reality but is a picture of the reality. You are trying to turn a symbol into a savior.

Without faith in the originator of the gift of water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, there is no remission of past sins.

1 Peter 1:23 - having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever. The word "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. ( John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, and we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the washing of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)

Our rebirth occurs when we are raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
That happens after our old man is destroyed with Christ at our "immersion" into Christ's death. (Rom 6:6, Gal 5:24)
That "immersion" is our water baptism in the Lord's name for the remission of past sins.
May God be praised for His miraculous intercession on our behalf !

 

[PaulThomson]

You need to learn ASAP that disobedience is death and death is being separated from the Lord

"Death" is not "being separated from the Lord". It is not possible to be separated from the Lord, since He is everywhere. If I die and go to hades, He is even there.

Psa 139:7
Whither shall I go from Your Spirit? or whither shall I flee from Your Presence?
Psa 139:8
If I ascend up into heaven, You are there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.


No other thing can separate us from God's love, because God is love and God is everywhere. The only way we can experience ourselves being separated from God is if we refuse to love Him and refuse open up to Him. and try to hide ourselves from Him

Rom 8:38
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, northings to come,
Rom 8:39
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

God did not separate from Adam when Adam sinned. God did not separate from Cain when he murdered Abel.

 

[OMC]

True, every true believer has received the gift of the Holy Ghost, after their turn from sin and baptism...just as Peter commnaded in Acts 2:38.

Having the mind of Christ precludes misinterpretations.

Would you call adulterers and those with a me first attitude charcteristic of those in Christ ?
I don't.
They were still carnal, for crying out loud !

Why do you think they had the Holy Spirit ?
Why does anyone think the disobedient have anything at all to do with Christ ?

Doesn't that teach you that those who don't understand, (excepting very new converts), also don't have the gift of the Holy Spirit ?

Maybe not at first, but if they refuse to accept the teachings of one with the Holy Ghost, they just prove their separation from God.

As any interpreation from a man with the gift of the Holy Ghost perfectly aligns with God, isn't it obvious that those who disagree with that man don't have God's Spirit in them ?

That conclusion simply does not follow from Scripture.

If having the Holy Spirit made a believer infallible in interpretation, there would have been no need for most of the New Testament epistles.

The Corinthians were called "sanctified in Christ Jesus" (1 Cor. 1:2), yet Paul corrected them repeatedly.

The Galatians had received the Spirit (Gal. 3:2-3), yet Paul asked, "Who hath bewitched you?"

The seven churches in Revelation were addressed as churches of Christ, yet several were sharply rebuked.

So Scripture itself shows Spirit-indwelt believers can be mistaken, immature, inconsistent, and in need of correction.

You ask why I think the Galatians had the Spirit. Because Paul explicitly says they did (Gal. 3:2-5).

Likewise, possessing "the mind of Christ" (1 Cor. 2:16) does not mean possessing omniscience.
It means the Spirit enables us to understand spiritual truth.
We still grow in knowledge, test doctrine, and correct errors.

Your position creates a problem.
If everyone with the Holy Spirit interprets Scripture perfectly, why have sincere, godly believers disagreed on doctrine since the first century?

The apostles did not say: "Whoever disagrees with me lacks the Spirit."
They reasoned from Scripture.

The test is not, "Does this person agree with me?"
The test is, "What has God actually said?"

That is why even believers must continually test their conclusions against the whole counsel of God rather than assuming that possessing the Spirit makes every interpretation automatically correct.

 

[carbunculus]

That which God has given to Jesus for our salvation is adeqate for our salvation.
To study One is to study both the Father and the Son.

The commands we have from Jesus and His apostles on how to be saved, are sufficient for salvation on the day of judgement.
Love God with all your heart, mind, soul, amd strength, and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

This doesn't show the relationship to be simultaneously from your your idea here, your idea here point towards the father and son being one, and for many things this is Good, but however this still doesn't answer the question you where asked, and again I must stress that understanding a believer does have a relationship with the father first before being accepted by the son is very important to understand.

Your next answer of go ahead and educate me, doesn't seem like your interested, so I'm not sure how to reply to this remark, you don't seem to interested.

Are you Catholic ?