More about Israel.
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Many thanks for your posts.
So, Abraham and Moses covenants can be made obsolete but others can’t – not sure you have proved any passage to say that any of it is ‘unconditional’
This was made with Abraham long before Moses - Gen 17:11-14 is clear as can be - 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”
Even with the above it shows a covenant can be broken and there were conditions on the covenants as does Deut 11:26-27 - 26 See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse—
I think you accept that ‘olam’, ‘owlam’ doesn’t imply forever / everlasting etc… but you state some are until the end so to speak.
remnant of Israel / Jacob – no problem whoever they, are considering the mixed marriages from the time of Abraham and throughout rule of pagan Rome then Christianity with mass conversions and Islam mass conversions – Bottom line is whoever believes in Jesus now or when he returns will be saved – Irrelevant of colour or race – so nothing special.
Babylon – Not agreed – were the Persians / Greeks / Romans (much bigger) any better?
Wedding Banquet – you haven’t proved that this relates to the end times
Most prophecies are often shortly after the relevant time or within a limited time after -
the invited guests are the Jews who refuse to come
They killed the prophets / men of God (Jesus even stated this)
God destroys them AD70
The Gentiles are called –
End of the Israelites as they didn’t accept the Messiah - who came to ‘the lost sheep of Israel’ - Luke 21:20-24 - 20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near
I think we will have to agree to disagree but thank you for the respectful exchange
I've already shown you how the Covenant was unconditional.
Galatians 3:17-18
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
ALL of the Covenants, and there are several, are unconditional with the exception of the Mosaic law.
The Israelites are still alive and kicking. God/Jesus has preserved a REMNANT of them throughout all of history in order to replenish. Now they back in part of the promised land, but the rest won't be complete until after Jesus returns and claims it back for Himself and for them.
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The figure of six million Jewish victims is established through a convergence of direct documentation and indirect statistical comparison, as no single master list of all victims exists. Scholars, including those at Yad Vashem and the US Holocaust Memorial Museum, rely on captured Nazi records, pre-war and post-war census data, and survivor testimonies to arrive at this estimate, which ranges academically between 5.1 and 6 million.
Nazi Documentation and Perpetrator Records
- Extermination Camp Records: The Nazis meticulously documented transports and gassings at killing centers. For example, the Höfle Telegram (January 1943) detailed that 1,274,166 Jews were murdered in the Aktion Reinhard camps in 1942 alone.
- Shooting Operations: Detailed reports from the Einsatzgruppen (mobile killing squads), such as the Jäger Report, account for approximately 1.5 million murders via mass shootings in Eastern Europe.
- Internal Statistics: The Korherr Report, compiled by an SS statistician in 1943, recorded a conservative total of 2.45 million Jews deported or murdered by the end of 1942.
- Population Comparison: Historians compare pre-war census data (showing a European Jewish population of roughly 9.7 million in 1939) with post-war estimates (approximately 3.6 million in 1946), indicating a loss of roughly 6.1 million.
- Addition Method: Researchers sum known deaths from specific categories: ~2.7 million at killing centers, ~2 million in mass shootings, 800,000–1 million in ghettos and labor camps, and 250,000 in other acts of violence.
- Institutional Estimates: The Nuremberg Tribunal estimated 5.7 million victims, while Yad Vashem has documented over 4.7 million names through the "Pages of Testimony" project, though this represents only a portion of the total.
- Destruction of Evidence: The Nazis destroyed many camp records and killing site infrastructure as they retreated, making exact accounting impossible for many locations.
- Unrecorded Deaths: Millions died in isolated pogroms, forced marches, or hiding without leaving paper trails, meaning the true number is an estimate rather than a precise count.
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At least Chesterton believed in the Second Coming of Jesus. You should really try to figure out why you don't.
As a devout Roman Catholic and a defender of orthodox Christian doctrine, Chesterton held the Second Coming (or Second Advent) as a core article of faith — it is affirmed in the Nicene Creed ("He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead"), which he upheld throughout his life.
He wrote about it explicitly in his Advent reflections, framing the season as a time of waiting for Christ's return, and in The Everlasting Man he built his entire narrative of Christian history toward the expectation of that final consummation. His Advent e-book from the Chesterton Institute even includes the line: "Since it is lawful to pray for the coming of the kingdom, it is lawful also to pray for the coming of the revolution that shall restore the kingdom."
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There is no genocide being committed against Palestinians, just Islamic terrorists and the people who support them for being terrorists. It's called "defending" oneself. On the other hand, the terrorists are definitely targeting and killing the Jews and/or anyone who doesn't obey the terrorists.
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Romans 11- I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2. God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew.
Yes, God gave to Abraham by promise – but it came with conditions 1 of them being - 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”
- Doesn’t prove any of the covenants are ‘unconditional’ – as stated earlier – God says you have broken the covenant & new covenant – you just can not break a covenant that is unconditional not do you need a new covenant when the old is still valid – no matter how you look at it will never be reasonable.
- Exception of Moses & Gods conditions don’t matter – why is that? – so when convenient can be made obsolete but no others can – seems inconsistent
- Gal 3:19 until the arrival of the seed to whom the promise referred. – arguably all the previous covenants are dissolved – not needed
- To clarify is ‘olam’ forever or not?
- Your ignoring the history facts of inter marry and conversions in and out and following a ‘narrative, promoted by Rabbis for the last couple of hundred years – no facts. That’s why Israel has banned DNA and all Ashkenazi jews outside of Israel who have undertaken DNA say we have no connection to the land. Programmed over hundreds of years but with the technology we have today the lies can be found unlike before. Just like pagan Christmas and Jesus being blue eyed and blond – when we have no information at all of what he looked like – white colonial propaganda which stated from Rome.
- Are Gods conditions not unconditional? If not why not?
26 See, I am setting before you today a **blessing and a curse**—
27 the **blessing if you obey the commands** of the LORD your God that I am giving you today;
28 the **curse if you disobey the commands** of the LORD your God and turn from the way that I command you today by following other gods, which you have not known.
Psalms 132:12 **If** your sons keep my covenant and the statutes I teach them, then their sons will sit on your throne for ever and ever.”
Jeramiah 11:10 – they have turned back **going after other Gods** – how could they have **broken my covenant**
We have been through it already which was a waste of time as you ignore everything and bang the same Narrative – with no substance and everything else has been debunked
Never said God rejected his people - his people were those that followed him as Abraham and all the others were not Israelites that was after Jacob and Jews are named after Judah -
are you saying Abraham was rejected because he was not an Israelite?
Th followers of Jesus were Israelites, kept the law and rituals, temple etc...
The people God rejects are the ones that don’t follow Gods commands no one else - you will see the intermarriage throughout and confirmed in the bible - there is no so-called pure blood line
follow the conversation with Rev1v8 – if you have anything of substance reply
show me the evidence of the continuous six million over the last 100 years
Like I said, the Mosaic Covenant was conditional.
The Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants are unconditional. The Mosaic Covenant was conditional. The New Covenant is conditional by faith, but a remnant of Jacob will meet those requirements (Isaiah 10:20) AGAIN in order to live in the promised land promised to them by God/Jesus in order for them to rebuild and replenish the population again during the Millennial Kingdom period.
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Jesus himself came from the tribe of Judah. The Bible shows you that there will be members from every tribe that will be preserved in order to act as witnesses for God/Jesus during the Tribulation period in Revelation 7. So people from every seed of Jacob have been called in order for God/Jesus to carry out the rest of His promises to them during the Millennial Kingdom period.
Revelation 7:4-8
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
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All sounds good until you have to bring evidence - do you have any evidence you can provide?
Not manipulated data long after - all this evidence than it comes to - oh but there was destruction of evidence and much unrecorded.
Even if there were 10 million jews in Europe which is very arguable – there was only about ½ million in Germany – much parts of Europe they didn’t get to – so the countries like Poland and France etc… they killed practically every single Jew - really
Without going into the passages - 144 thousand doesn’t sound like a lot to me and that’s from all the tribes - not just Judah were the Jews say they are from and get the name from - we have approx. 15 million so called Jews now so most aren’t going to make the cut - does the figure also include those that have past and the future - looks grim to me
That's why I brought up Zechariah 13:8-9 to you earlier. There are many different peoples scattered throughout the promised land right now, but 2/3 of them will be cut off, no matter who they are.
Zechariah 13:8-9
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.
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Romans 11 is talking about jews like Peter, paul.... getting grafted back to the tree, Jesus Christ, same as my neighbors, jew by ethnic, but professing Jesus as Lord and savior, and refuse to bow down to golden calf.