Throughout time people are Saved by Grace alone, through Faith alone, In Christ alone

[shroom2]

You are exactly right in God's grace coming before we have faith. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit and we must be born of the Spirit before we have access to spiritual faith. If you interpret Gal 2:16 right, thats exactly what it says.

Gal 2:16) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that [with the result that] we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Salvation comes after we believe, Forest.

 

[Forest]

Dear AnandaHya.

Synergists do not try to say, "Don't we get some of the glory"? No

synergist says that; that is slander against what synergists believe.

Synergists say God does not save us against our will, our free will; God

wills the salvation of all men;

those who are saved must will to be saved by God's grace, too. God's

grace is not irresistible. It requires our co-operation. God does not

force Himself upon anyone!

We don't get born again without repentance, and repentance requires

choices to be made. It doesn't happen against our will. We must will

what God wills.

What you said is bearing false witness against the synergists. It's like

quoting Ephesians 2:8-9 without moving on to Ephesians 2:10.

Because "faith without works is dead" (James 2).

God save us. It's all by His mercy (Titus 3:5), and not something we

work ourselves. We can do nothing without Christ (John 15).

In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

You are wrongly repremanding Amandahya. In your post you are telling her that we are saved eternally by our works (we don't get born again without repentence, and repentence requires work), and then you contradict yourself by saying "It's all by his mercy, and not something we work ourselves. We are saved eternally only by the shed blood of Jesus as all who are saved were saved by his obedience to the cross.

 

[Forest]

Scott what causes your "will" to repent and accept God?

Grace, God placing in you a new heart capable of repenting? God replacing that heart of Stone?

Before God did that you had no "will" to chose Him, you were DEAD in your trespasses, Enslaved by your sin.

You did not free yourself by your own "will" GOD gave you that will and drew you to Him.

to say "God's grace is not irresistible." is slander against GOD and His Holy revealed words.

Synergism is a water down version of works salvation. it teaches people are not saved by grace alone but by some choose made by men and not by the will of GOD through the grace of GOD.

Romans 11:5-7
New King James Version (NKJV)
5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace.[a] But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

My statement is just a rephrasing of what synergist believe because they think they actually have a part in their own salvation when it is only GOD's work and God's glory alone.

If God wills it, then who are men that they are able to oppose the will of God?

why did Jesus pray only for His disciples and not the whole world?

John 17
9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.

You hang in there Amandahya, you are totally right in what you said in this post.

 

[Forest]

So Peter's words in Acts 2:38 were pointless, then?

Acts 2:38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent [ change!], and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Is receiving the gift of holy spirit a "timely salvation"?

Shroom, I believe we have been through Acts 2:38 before as also all of your favorite scriptures. A stony heart cannot be "Pricked", only a heart that God has replaced with a fleshly (absorbent) heart, 2 Cor 3:3. These men were already born of God.

 

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

You are wrongly repremanding Amandahya. In your post you are telling her that we are saved eternally by our works (we don't get born again without repentence, and repentence requires work), and then you contradict yourself by saying "It's all by his mercy, and not something we work ourselves. We are saved eternally only by the shed blood of Jesus as all who are saved were saved by his obedience to the cross.

Dear Forest:
I am not reprimanding AnandaHya. Again someone falsely accuses me of something I'm not doing. And there is no contradiction. Do you say "faith alone"? Which Scripture uses the words "faith alone"? If you check the Bible, you'll find the only place those words are used is in James 2:24. What do you say, now, then? In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[Crossfire]

was with you until this part.

Faith is something a person must embrace and accept, it is from God but it mostly a human thing.

Grace is completely unmerited forgiveness from God.

Grace came first because without GOD calling us we would not even think to repent and have faith in God because it is by grace that we even hear the Gospel or have a heart willing to listen and allow the Word of God to grow in our hearts. Monergist say it is all by the Grace and power of God.

Synergist try and say, "don't we get some of the glory" We have to do some of the work of being saved.

Monergist state that we do good works because we are saved.

Synergist makes it about people choosing to be saved and doing things to help God save them.

You didn't chose to be born the first time, you don't chose to be born again.

However how you live after being born again, well... that is for another post....

The monergist / synergist debate in many ways resembles two evolutionists arguing back and forth over which came first, the chicken or the egg. However, for those who place their faith in God, we do not worry ourselves with such petty disagreements because in our hearts we know that God came first.

Essentially Christ is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2) regardless of which a person feels must come first, faith or grace, both originate from the love of God for mankind thus God Himself came first. The problem begins when people try to define both grace and faith as nouns when in truth both are actually verbs, both being the love of God in action.

Given your perspective on synergism, it appears as though your understanding of synergism has been heavily influenced by a monergistic perspective. Nothing is wrong with that. In fact, most Christians tend to lean toward one side or the other of this debate without truly understanding what the other side actually believes.

Any true synergist worth his or her salt will tell you that ultimately synergism can be described with one simple word; 'surrender'. What I mean by this is basically God does all the work, the only role that man plays is that he / she surrenders themselves to the will / direction / call of God. Whether or not a person believes that God had predestined them to do so is entirely up to the individual and really does not effect the synergistic definition in any way seeing as God has known us all from the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4).

If my memory serves me correctly, I believe you once mentioned that you belonged to a Methodist church? If so, I am curious as to which kind of doctrine that you feel your church embraces, mongergistic or synergistic? I'm not sure if you are aware but Methodism at it's very core is synergistic (I would know ). If you do your research, you will find that most Lutherans actually lean toward synergism.

 

[AnandaHya]

The monergist / synergist debate in many ways resembles two evolutionists arguing back and forth over which came first, the chicken or the egg. However, for those who place their faith in God, we do not worry ourselves with such petty disagreements because in our hearts we know that God came first.

Essentially Christ is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2) regardless of which a person feels must come first, faith or grace, both originate from the love of God for mankind thus God Himself came first. The problem begins when people try to define both grace and faith as nouns when in truth both are actually verbs, both being the love of God in action.

Given your perspective on synergism, it appears as though your understanding of synergism has been heavily influenced by a monergistic perspective. Nothing is wrong with that. In fact, most Christians tend to lean toward one side or the other of this debate without truly understanding what the other side actually believes.

Any true synergist worth his or her salt will tell you that ultimately synergism can be described with one simple word; 'surrender'. What I mean by this is basically God does all the work, the only role that man plays is that he / she surrenders themselves to the will / direction / call of God. Whether or not a person believes that God had predestined them to do so is entirely up to the individual and really does not effect the synergistic definition in any way seeing as God has known us all from the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4).

If my memory serves me correctly, I believe you once mentioned that you belonged to a Methodist church? If so, I am curious as to which kind of doctrine that you feel your church embraces, mongergistic or synergistic? I'm not sure if you are aware but Methodism at it's very core is synergistic (I would know ). If you do your research, you will find that most Lutherans actually lean toward synergism.

I attend and am aware that most people believe in synergism no matter what the denomination.

as I stated before even if the heart of the doctrine is "surrender" it is but half the picture and half the truth is still a lie. the rest is that GOD enables that surrender. that GOD is the source of the desire to surrender. it is not within men to do so, it goes against the nature of natural men, against the flesh to do so.

If GOD is the source then that is monogerism. If God is always recognized as the source, then Truth and understanding will come from above and not from below.

Synergism often causes people to forget the source which is GOD and look to their own works to accomplish their salvation.

 

[becausehedied]

Anytime one uses the word "alone" then that means that one is saved by that an nothing else.

One cannot be saved by this alone, and that alone, plus that alone.

If I go to the store alone who went with me?

If I say I am going to the store with Tim alone, James alone, and Bill alone, then I am contradicting my self.

 

[AnandaHya]

how about this

I was taught by God alone, through His Holy Bible alone, with the Holy Spirit speaking alone in my heart.

any contradictions there?

prepositions aren't they lovely?

God created the Bible.

Grace creates Faith.

you are saved By Grace THROUGH faith, which places you IN Christ. Alone.

 

[Crossfire]

I attend and am aware that most people believe in synergism no matter what the denomination.

as I stated before even if the heart of the doctrine is "surrender" it is but half the picture and half the truth is still a lie. the rest is that GOD enables that surrender. that GOD is the source of the desire to surrender. it is not within men to do so, it goes against the nature of natural men, against the flesh to do so.

If GOD is the source then that is monogerism. If God is always recognized as the source, then Truth and understanding will come from above and not from below.

Synergism often causes people to forget the source which is GOD and look to their own works to accomplish their salvation.

I understand what you saying and agree to great degree. However, modern monergy also embraces it's share of deception as well. The majority of monergists today use monergy as a means redefine the biblical description of faith and in doing so make allowances for sinful, self centered lifestyles which the Bible clearly does not excuse. Scripture clearly teaches that obedience is the fruit of saving faith however, many monergists over the centuries have tried very hard to eliminate obedience as an evidence of faith. As long as this occurs, the majority of Christians will lean toward synergism.

Quick question: Do you view salvation as a relationship or something other?

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

i think justification is monergistic but sanctification is synergistic...

 

[AnandaHya]

I understand what you saying and agree to great degree. However, modern monergy also embraces it's share of deception as well. The majority of monergists today use monergy as a means redefine the biblical description of faith and in doing so make allowances for sinful, self centered lifestyles which the Bible clearly does not excuse. those are not monergist those are wolves.

Scripture clearly teaches that obedience is the fruit of saving faith however, many monergists over the centuries have tried very hard to eliminate obedience as an evidence of faith. As long as this occurs, the majority of Christians will lean toward synergism. the reaction to wolves should not be to turn to another gospel but to reveal the falsity that those wolves teach.

Quick question: Do you view salvation as a relationship or something other?

Salvation is when you have the Holy Spirit within you that allows you to cry out Abba, Father.

until that happens you are not saved.

If you don't have a relationship with your Heavenly Father....truthfully that thought is just too weird for words.

not sure what you are asking so its kind of hard to answer.

I believe that God chastens and scourges every one of His children and if you have not felt the correcting rod of God then you are either not one of His children or you are illegimate, which means you are not a child of the free woman but of the bondservant. you do not inherit the promise of salvation with Isaac but the chains of Ishmael.

 

[Forest]

not quite. I don't know what he means by "Christ's faith"

is it the same thing as Faith IN Christ?

Galatians 2
16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

it is not the faith of another that saves. the faith must be within a person. the faith must be active. Christ is the object of our faith. Faith is a gift from God.

what is the object of "Christ's Faith"?

I will try to explain what I mean by "Christ's faith". Gal 2:16 says that we are justified by faith "OF" Christ. that makes it Christ's faith and not our faith, at least it states it that way in the KJV. Some transulations have changed to word "OF" to "IN" which is the reason I stick to the KJV.

 

[Forest]

not quite. I don't know what he means by "Christ's faith"

is it the same thing as Faith IN Christ?

Galatians 2
16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

it is not the faith of another that saves. the faith must be within a person. the faith must be active. Christ is the object of our faith. Faith is a gift from God.

what is the object of "Christ's Faith"?

No its not the same thing as faith "IN" Christ. Faith in Christ is our spiritual faith.

 

[Forest]

[quote=AnandaHya;593304]How Were People Saved in the Old

Testament, Since Jesus Had Not Yet Come? - TeachingTheWord

Ministries - Equipping the Scripture-Driven Church




This is what the Bible teaches. If you or your church teaches differently

then their understanding of scripture has not been opened for God

reveals this to us:


Revelation 19:10


And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you

do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who

have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus

is the spirit of prophecy.”


therefore if the TESTIMONY of JESUS is not key doctrine and you bow

to anyone or anything else be it your prosperity, or your power to

reign, or your spiritual gifts or that of your pastors, then you need to

reexamine yourself and your motives.

All are saved by faith in JESUS CHRIST.


One covenant, ONE faith, ONE baptism, ONE Savior, ONE God.

Dear AnandaHya. This is what the Bible teaches. If your "church" or

denomination teaches otherwise,


then it does not agree with the whole Bible, but only with the parts of

the Bible it selectively chooses to (want to) believe!

The Word of God: "You see that a person is justified by works and not

by faith alone". James 2:24 ESV (English Standard Version).

God save us. Amen. In Erie Scott R. Harrington

[/quote]All people who are saved eternally were saved by the work of Christ on the cross, from Adam to the last man born on this earth.

 

[Forest]

Off hand it appears as though they are referring to the concept of 'imputed righteousness' which is the idea that when we come to faith in Christ, His righteousness is imputed to those who belief and follow after Christ. Most Protestants would agree with this statement.

However, you are wise to question their original intent because you never know when you might run into the rare few who embrace the idea that God requires nothing of man (which is not to be mistaken with nothing from man) during the act of salvation.

Faith is indeed the requirement OF man in order for man to receive the gift of salvation. However, faith does not originate FROM man but rather faith originates from the working of the Holy Spirit in men after hearing / reading the Word of God. Faith is every bit a gift from God as grace.

What's funny is when people begin to argue which comes first, faith or grace. This argument is the basis for the monergy v/s synergy debate, monergists believing grace comes first while synergists believe faith comes first. However, once you realize that both originate from God, the argument seems kind of ridiculous.

We are not justified for eternal life any other way, but by Christ's faith as so stated in Gal 2:16. We do not have access to spiritual faith until we are born of the Spirit. Our faith can save (deliver) us many times here in this world but our faith will never be the cause of our eternal salvation, God gets 100% of that glory.

 

[shroom2]

I will try to explain what I mean by "Christ's faith". Gal 2:16 says that we are justified by faith "OF" Christ. that makes it Christ's faith and not our faith, at least it states it that way in the KJV. Some transulations have changed to word "OF" to "IN" which is the reason I stick to the KJV.

Gal 2:16) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that [ with the result that ] we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

We are justified by the faith of Christ when we believe.

 

[Forest]

That is true we are all saved by grace through faith. The purpose of the sacrifices and the sanctuary was to teach the plan of salvation.
Hebrews 10:1-4
(1) For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
(2) For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
(3) But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
(4) For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

There is no plan of eternal salvation after Christs death on the cross because Gods plan for salvation of his elect was accomplished by Christ on the cross. The scriptures were preserved down through time as instructions for God's elect as to how they should live their lives here on earth. All that God gave to Christ was saved by grace through Christ's faith, not ours, Gal 2:16. God gets all the credit for our eternal salvation and none goes to man.

 

[Forest]

So Peter's words in Acts 2:38 were pointless, then?

Acts 2:38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent [ change!], and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Is receiving the gift of holy spirit a "timely salvation"?

Shroom, do you believe in regeneration as well as conversion? Regeneration always comes before conversion.

 

[Forest]

Christ saves you when you choose to believe on him.

Do you just ignor scripture? Thats not what Gal 2:16 says!