I am willing to discuss any and all biblical points. However, this is useless if a person is going to be so entrenched in his belief, and have so much of his self esteem invested in those beliefs, as to resist common sense and logic, as well as the promptings of the Holy Spirit, in the search for truth. This seems to be evident for many in this forum.
So much for your 'puffed up' attitude.
As to the Rev. 12:10 reference, the book of revelation is apocalyptic literature, and cannot be interpreted in the same way as historical or narrative books. In particular, it cannot be taken as literal, or assumed to be in chronological order. In fact, Revelations is NOT in chronological order, nor is it intended to be.
Are you going to tell all of us that there is nothing that can be taken literal nor is there anything chronological concerning the book of Revelation? You can't be serious.
Four things that must be considered in interpreting the book.
1. It is intended for the church. It was written for people in John's day, however it is intended for our edification in this day as well. But we must remember the original audience, and what was going on historically in that period.
The NT church has not changed one single bit in terms of the gospel, the edification of the body through grace and the knowledge of Christ, the filling of the Spirit nor concerning the unbelief of the nation of Israel and if you and others think so then your are mistaken.
2. The N.T. often interprets the O.T. for us. A careful rendering of the N.T. will often show the fulfilment of O.T. prophecy. Most, if not all, O.T. prophecy concerning the nation of Israel has already been fulfilled.
Any believer, or for that matter any non-believer, can easily discern when reading the prophecies of this book (Rev 1:1-3) that Israel is very much in the picture and is seperate from the church as an elect company. You are being very ambiguous.
3. Prophetic language is often figurative (Num. 12: 6-8). The mistake that most people who believe in a literal millenium is just that they take symbolic language and try to apply it literally.
This is a terrible cop-out for your own interpretation and understanding that you ascribe to. Do you believe in a literal Satan, a literal Antichrist, two literal witnesses that come from God, a literal temple, a literal twelve tribes of the children of Israel, etc, etc. In (Rev 11:3) have these two witnesses been given literal power to prophesy for a literal 1,260 days, or is this all symbolic in some manner or fashion?
4. Prophecy is fulfilled at different levels of reality.
This statement is just a foolish statement that can be used in any fashion, by anyone, to interpret anyway you want. Explain and give an example of the different levels of reality that exist in the prophecies being made in this book. I read that you better not add or take away from those prophecies less there be consequences, so you better not get too liberal with how you interpret. The old system of rationalization is alive and kicking.
Some reality is spiritual, and some is physical. As a general rule, prophetic literalists want to interpret all prophecy as applying to physical realities, rather than spiritual. The bible certainly distinguishes between the two levels of reality. For example, there are two kinds of Israel (Rom. 9:6); two kinds of Jerusalem (Gal 4: 25-26), and two kinds of kingdom (John 18:36).
That is also not true because there is a combination but not at the expense of forsaken the literal just because it pertains to prophesy. You just can't randomly make something spiritual when it is literal and you better not confuse the two or apply them as you see fit foryour understanding, especially when you put the church in the great tribulation and in place of a literal nation of Israel.
What is needed in this discussion, is a true and honest search for truth, rather than a prideful need to be right in all things.
Hang it up. This is just a self-righteous attitude and disposition of the heart that you and others like to get hung up on.
