Occupy: What Would Jesus Do?

[TheGrungeDiva]

I'm curious what y'all think Jesus would say or do, with regards to the current "Occupy" movements happening around the country.

Do you think Jesus would be one of the protesters, getting pepper-sprayed?
Do you think he would be a volunteer, maybe bringing blankets and food to the protesters, but trying to avoid the controversy and confrontation?
Do you think he would be one of the people who is publicly berating the protesters, objecting to their lawlessness, telling them to go home and stop being trouble-makers?
Do you think he would remove himself from the problem, and not really care one way or the other, saying that it was a matter of "Ceasar," and that our minds should be set on God?

Other ideas?

 

[tribesman]

He would most likely tell them the truth that they are all vile and wicked sinners that needs to repent and turn to Him.

PS. I tend to symphatise with the protesters, but that's another dime.

 

[Saul_Durian]

He would most likely tell them the truth that they are all vile and wicked sinners that needs to repent and turn to Him.

PS. I tend to symphatise with the protesters, but that's another dime.

Why are they all vile and wicked sinners? That is a pretty harsh generalization.

 

[tribesman]

Why are they all vile and wicked sinners? That is a pretty harsh generalization.

Unless there is some straying christian on either side, then that's how it is. That is exactlly what the Word of God says. All men are equal in that one regard:

Rom.3

[4] God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
[5] But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
[6] God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
[7] For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
[8] And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
[9] What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
[10] As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
[11] There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
[12] They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
[13] Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14] Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
[15] Their feet are swift to shed blood:
[16] Destruction and misery are in their ways:
[17] And the way of peace have they not known:
[18] There is no fear of God before their eyes.
[19] Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
[20] Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
[21] But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
[22] Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
[23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
[24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
[26] To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
[27] Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
[28] Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
[29] Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
[30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
[31] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[Saul_Durian]

Unless there is some straying christian on either side, then that's how it is. That is exactlly what the Word of God says. All men are equal in that one regard:

So what you are saying is that he would be calling everyone vile sinners....

 

[tribesman]

So what you are saying is that he would be calling everyone vile sinners....

Who knows what expressions would be used, besides it's a side issue aside from the meaty one. But if you look in the scriptures (if you're really interested) you will see multiple examples of Jesus using what you probably would deem as "harsh" language when addressing unrepentant and unbelieving people.

 

[Saul_Durian]

Who knows what expressions would be used, besides it's a side issue aside from the meaty one. But if you look in the scriptures (if you're really interested) you will see multiple examples of Jesus using what you probably would deem as "harsh" language when addressing unrepentant and unbelieving people.

I am quite familiar. I was thinking more that it takes away from the point of the OP's question.

 

[tribesman]

I am quite familiar. I was thinking more that it takes away from the point of the OP's question.

Then I don't get the point with your repeated questions about that. Obviously I'm of the view that He would not take either side, but would stand above it, switching to the most important issue.

 

[rainacorn]

Jesus would say, "Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They would bring Him a dollar or a coin, and He would ask them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

“A US President... the US Government,” they would reply.

Then He would say to them, “So give back to the US Government what is the US Government's, and to God what is God’s.”




Hopefully they would be amazed, but they would more likely call Him a name and tell Him to leave if He doesn't support their cause.

 

[zeroturbulence]

I'm curious what y'all think Jesus would say or do, with regards to the current "Occupy" movements happening around the country.

Do you think Jesus would be one of the protesters, getting pepper-sprayed?
Do you think he would be a volunteer, maybe bringing blankets and food to the protesters, but trying to avoid the controversy and confrontation?
Do you think he would be one of the people who is publicly berating the protesters, objecting to their lawlessness, telling them to go home and stop being trouble-makers?
Do you think he would remove himself from the problem, and not really care one way or the other, saying that it was a matter of "Ceasar," and that our minds should be set on God?

Other ideas?

"Yet we hear that some of you are living idle lives, refusing to work and meddling in other people’s business. We command such people and urge them in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and work to earn their own living. As for the rest of you, dear brothers and sisters, never get tired of doing good."

(2 Thessalonians 3:11-13 NLT)

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

He would most likely tell them the truth that they are all vile and wicked sinners that needs to repent and turn to Him.

PS. I tend to symphatise with the protesters, but that's another dime.

From your further discussion with Saul_Durian, I gather that your point here is not that the protesters are more sinful than anyone else, but that the protesters are sinners, as are the people in the institutions against which they are protesting. You seem to be saying that Jesus would lump them all together as humans who are sinners in need of repentance and forgiveness, am I understanding you correctly?

There is certainly much in the Bible to support this view. However, there is also much in the Bible to support the view that God comforts the afflicted and afflicts the comfortable. In this case, I think the protesters are making the case that they are "afflicted," and that the governmental powers (corporations and the politicians they buy) are "comfortable." One could argue that, if the occupiers are correct, Jesus would speak words of comfort, hope, and promise to the 99%, and words of warning and woe to the 1%. One could also argue that the protesters are wrong, that they really aren't that afflicted.

What do you guys think? Are the protesters correct? If so, do you think Jesus would speak words of comfort to them, like, "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, would that I could gather you unto me as a hen gathers her chicks."?

Or do you think the protesters are mistaken, and Jesus would call them out for their deception, "You brood of vipers..." (Actually, it was John who said this, wasn't it?)

Or would Jesus just ignore them?

Jesus would say, "Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They would bring Him a dollar or a coin, and He would ask them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

“A US President... the US Government,” they would reply.

Then He would say to them, “So give back to the US Government what is the US Government's, and to God what is God’s.”

Hopefully they would be amazed, but they would more likely call Him a name and tell Him to leave if He doesn't support their cause.

Excellent post.

However, I think most occupiers are in favor of taxation. They're protesting the corruption that is inherent in legislators being "bought" by corporations, in laws being passed according to who donates the most money to the lawmakers, not in what is "right" or "wrong."

It's really not about taxation, I think.

"Yet we hear that some of you are living idle lives, refusing to work and meddling in other people’s business. We command such people and urge them in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and work to earn their own living. As for the rest of you, dear brothers and sisters, never get tired of doing good."

(2 Thessalonians 3:11-13 NLT)

Nice Bible quote, but what does this have to do with the issue at hand? Some of the people protesting at the various Occupy movements are employed. Those who are not employed, it isn't by choice. They are not "refusing" to work. They are looking for work, but no one is hiring. Are you aware that unemployment is around 10% nationally? And in most of the Occupy cities, it's much higher, some places as high as 30%. Even McDonald's isn't hiring! And as for "meddling in other people's business," no, these people are not meddling in other people's business. They are very concerned about their own lives. So, while I do appreciate that you went to the Bible for an answer, you really need to find something relevant to the issue, like rainacorn did, rather than just pick some verse at random.

Thanks for the input so far. More discussion?

 

[Kyouken]

He wouldn't care who the 1% are and who the 99% are because His Father's economy differs greatly from the economy here.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

He wouldn't care who the 1% are and who the 99% are because His Father's economy differs greatly from the economy here.

I disagree. He cares greatly about those who are hungry and those who are rich. At least, if we are to believe what the prophets in the Old Testament say. Of course, one can argue that the Bible isn't relevant today, or that it's misinterpreted, or that God doesn't mean the same today that he did then, or any number of things ... There are all sorts of opinions on Scripture interpretation. However, I believe that God does care which are the 1% and which are the 99%, and he will hold the 1% accountable for their actions.

 

[Kyouken]

Perhaps I should have given more thought to my post... I didn't mean that He wouldn't care about the hungry and poor,or the rich. I meant that He wouldn't worry about it too much because He'd trust His Father to prosper Him, and that's all I meant.

Then again, I probably don't know the whole part of the Occupy movement. Sorry 'bout that, TheGrungeDiva. My bad.

 

[Crimeny]

Not sure what Jesus would do, but I would say to almost everyone who is not an actor or involved in the staging on occupy wallstreet and the other protests to get up, go home and work or do something to help others.

Co-intel-pro movements are dangerous and if the US falls under martial law, many countries will be quick to follow for fear of revolt.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

Perhaps I should have given more thought to my post... I didn't mean that He wouldn't care about the hungry and poor,or the rich. I meant that He wouldn't worry about it too much because He'd trust His Father to prosper Him, and that's all I meant.

Then again, I probably don't know the whole part of the Occupy movement. Sorry 'bout that, TheGrungeDiva. My bad.

No problem. Actually, I think your comment was good: I think a lot of people don't realize what the Occupy movement is all about, so it is good that you brought it up, so people can think about these things.

And when it all comes down to it, really, none of us know what Jesus would do ... we can only trust in the Father, as you said.

 

[tribesman]

From your further discussion with Saul_Durian, I gather that your point here is not that the protesters are more sinful than anyone else, but that the protesters are sinners, as are the people in the institutions against which they are protesting. You seem to be saying that Jesus would lump them all together as humans who are sinners in need of repentance and forgiveness, am I understanding you correctly?

Yes, positive.

There is certainly much in the Bible to support this view. However, there is also much in the Bible to support the view that God comforts the afflicted and afflicts the comfortable. In this case, I think the protesters are making the case that they are "afflicted," and that the governmental powers (corporations and the politicians they buy) are "comfortable." One could argue that, if the occupiers are correct, Jesus would speak words of comfort, hope, and promise to the 99%, and words of warning and woe to the 1%. One could also argue that the protesters are wrong, that they really aren't that afflicted.

It could be well argued that the unrighteous rich would get an extra "woe", as they have earned up for it. Fair enough. However, it does not make you righteous or justified because you are not a rich and crafty banker or that you suffer more or less afflictions because of the effects of social injustice. So, both groups need to hear the gospel.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

It could be well argued that the unrighteous rich would get an extra "woe", as they have earned up for it. Fair enough. However, it does not make you righteous or justified because you are not a rich and crafty banker or that you suffer more or less afflictions because of the effects of social injustice. So, both groups need to hear the gospel.

Yes, both groups are sinners, and both groups need to hear the Gospel. I also believe that both groups have -- pardon the PC-soundedness of this statement, but -- equal opportunity to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus said it is harder for a camel to enter the eye of the needle than a rich man to enter the gates of heaven. What modern readers may or may not know is that The Eye of the Needle was the name of one of the gates into Jerusalem, known for its low clearance. When entering through that gate with a camel and lots of baggage, one would have to unload the camel, and the camel would have to "get on its knees" and shuffle through (you may have seen pictures of this, or you might be able to imagine a camel walking on its knees for a few feet). In other words, a rich man must free himself of his worldly possessions and humble himself before the Lord before he is worthy to enter heaven, while a poor man is already worthy, just as he is.

Of course, we all need to repent and be saved. But the good news is that because of Jesus, we all CAN be saved. Glory Hallelujah! Ain't-a-that GOOD NEWS!

 

[tribesman]

Yes, both groups are sinners, and both groups need to hear the Gospel. I also believe that both groups have -- pardon the PC-soundedness of this statement, but -- equal opportunity to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus said it is harder for a camel to enter the eye of the needle than a rich man to enter the gates of heaven. What modern readers may or may not know is that The Eye of the Needle was the name of one of the gates into Jerusalem, known for its low clearance. When entering through that gate with a camel and lots of baggage, one would have to unload the camel, and the camel would have to "get on its knees" and shuffle through (you may have seen pictures of this, or you might be able to imagine a camel walking on its knees for a few feet). In other words, a rich man must free himself of his worldly possessions and humble himself before the Lord before he is worthy to enter heaven, while a poor man is already worthy, just as he is.

Of course, we all need to repent and be saved. But the good news is that because of Jesus, we all CAN be saved. Glory Hallelujah! Ain't-a-that GOOD NEWS!

OK. However I do not from a theological point of view agree with the saying that all has the same "equal opportunity" to be saved. Or that salvation is in any wise a possibility for men. Salvation is impossible for men to accomplish, but with God all things are possible.

No one is worthy anything else from God than God's just judgment for their sin. Salvation then is wholly the work of God, who in His grace and mercy freely gives this to men, after His own will. I believe that the only trace of humility in man that is pleasing to God is in regenerated souls where it appears as fruit of the Spirit, again all caused by God's grace.

These and related matters are much debated elsewhere at this forum. And, yep, I knew about the Eye of the Needle gate in Jerusalem, where camels had to kneel.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

OK. However I do not from a theological point of view agree with the saying that all has the same "equal opportunity" to be saved. Or that salvation is in any wise a possibility for men. Salvation is impossible for men to accomplish, but with God all things are possible.

Would you not say that all humans are equally incapable of saving themselves? And would you not agree that God is equally able to save all humans? Do you not believe that God is capable of saving ALL people equally? That is what I mean by "equal opportunity." Of course, it is God's work, not mine, that gets me into heaven. But I have no better -- and no worse -- a chance of getting there than any other person on earth.