SAVED BY GRACE.....OH REALLY?

[Raistlin]

can an individual lost his salvation after been saved?

Are you hoping i will be contradictory?
Read my post again.
How many people truly believe they are saved yet do not change their ways.

But who am i?
I am nobody...
What does scripture say?

Romans 11

16 >For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 >And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 >Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 >Thou wilt say then, They broken were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

Here, someone was grafted in...given grace...what you seem to call saved...but what is the warning?

20 >Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear....

21 >For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

So if you believe the opposite, then your argument is not with me.
Yes your salvation can be taken away.
God just spelled it out.

 

[cronjecj]

Are you hoping i will be contradictory?
Read my post again.
How many people truly believe they are saved yet do not change their ways.

But who am i?
I am nobody...
What does scripture say?

Romans 11

16 >For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 >And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 >Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 >Thou wilt say then, They broken were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

Here, someone was grafted in...given grace...what you seem to call saved...but what is the warning?

20 >Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear....

21 >For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

So if you believe the opposite, then your argument is not with me.
Yes your salvation can be taken away.
God just spelled it out.

so are you saying salvation is dependent on the individual?

 

[DesertJoe]

Do you truly follow Christ?
Then you are not American.
You are a spiritual Jew.
Go to another country and see the infiltration of the many contradictory American born doctrines sprouting up.
It is shameful.
Are they truly Christian?
They seem too money orientated for that.



Brother I tell you this to your face... you need to repent. When you condemn Americans, you condemn yourself.You have said much from the flesh and not backed it up with God's word. More of the word & less ad hominem attacks.

 

[Raistlin]

Consumed.... God bless you. Jesus only condemned the condemners. He gave grace to the humble. I suggest the brother read & pray earnestly about what Jesus said in Matthew 7:1-5 which states 1“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Again... let the word of God speak & do not make statements that condemn. Those are of the flesh. God bless you

I am not judging.
I am stating fact.
You do have ears and eyes do you not?
God said expose them who abuse His Word.

When American born religions set up over here or anywhere for that matter, what do they do?

First they segregate their followers from outside contact (except for recruiting)
Then they tell them that all other Christian faiths are false.
Then they tell them do not listen to anybody else on scriptural doctrine, for it is the devil trying to snatch you away from God.
Then they urge them to leave their "ungodly" friends for their "godly church given friends".
Then they urge them to minimize contact with family who don't agree also.
Then they give them tasks for money saving reasons.
Then they urge them to tithe heavily.
All the while these poor fools lives are being torn apart in "Christs Name".

Then they ask them to leave all their worldly goods to them in their wills.
Money for the church which is for God of course...etc etc etc etc....
Then they get filthy rich while their followers struggle on giving them their hard earned money, all the while .
Then they urge them to buy church owned property (if they are successful at recruiting and growing that is).
Then when a member defaults, the church reclaims that property and sucks in some other poor fool.

All the while Gods word is never spread outside their "communities", instead their whole message stays within their closely guarded perimeters.

Is this Christian?
Is that judging?
Or is it using the Spirit to discern imposters charading as Christs disciples?
Why can't you hear the message?

 

[DesertJoe]

Do you truly follow Christ?
Then you are not American.
You are a spiritual Jew.
Go to another country and see the infiltration of the many contradictory American born doctrines sprouting up.
It is shameful.
Are they truly Christian?
They seem too money orientated for that.




If you have specific doctrines that are contrary to the word of God, then show how the doctrines are false.To attack all Americans is the same as racism, & the Pharisees were guilty of this. Remember what it says in Matthew 5:20 "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

 

[Raistlin]

so are you saying salvation is dependent on the individual?

You did not bother reading Gods written Word did you.
Nor my explanation.
I see what you are up to.
You disagree with God and hope to take it out on me as though i were the author of the bible.

I won't play this silly game.
Good try.

 

[cronjecj]

You did not bother reading Gods written Word did you.
Nor my explanation.
I see what you are up to.
You disagree with God and hope to take it out on me as though i were the author of the bible.

I won't play this silly game.
Good try.

is salvation dependent on the individual?

yes or no

 

[Raistlin]

Do you truly follow Christ?
Then you are not American.
You are a spiritual Jew.
Go to another country and see the infiltration of the many contradictory American born doctrines sprouting up.
It is shameful.
Are they truly Christian?
They seem too money orientated for that.




If you have specific doctrines that are contrary to the word of God, then show how the doctrines are false.To attack all Americans is the same as racism, & the Pharisees were guilty of this. Remember what it says in Matthew 5:20 "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Oh dear !!
How are you twisting this to be about me?
This is silly.

I have no problem with Americans.
It is all these zany Christian cults of theirs spreading everywhere ..THOSE GROUPS.
This is about SPIRITUAL DECEPTION.
And even blind Freddy knows that 90% of them are American based.
You can't honestly disagree?
Honestly and before Christ?

Racism?
Oh please!!

I can see this is going nowhere....
I don't care for personal fights of self justification...
You may have the last word(s)....
Be my guest.
Nice speaking to you.

 

[AnandaHya]

]
If you have specific doctrines that are contrary to the word of God, then show how the doctrines are false.To attack all Americans is the same as racism, & the Pharisees were guilty of this. Remember what it says in Matthew 5:20 "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

But DesertJoe its so much easier to paint people with a tar brush and insult a large group of people then point out individual things you disagree with

especially when those things include statements like JESUS IS GOD, or you are SAVED BY GRACE not by Works or that gnostics gospels are not scripture.

so instead of stating your position and the doctrines you oppose, it is much easier to pretend to be the victim and being unjustly picked on and called a racist.

 

[Raistlin]

is salvation dependent on the individual?

yes or no

I already said no.
I suggest you read those scriptures again & again & again & again until it sinks in.
You are just being a smart Alec now.
This is unfruitful and a waste of my time.
Others who can see, see.
I am sorry you are unable.
May the Lord open your eyes.

 

[cronjecj]

I already said no.
I suggest you read those scriptures again & again & again & again until it sinks in.
You are just being a smart Alec now.
This is unfruitful and a waste of my time.
Others who can see, see.
I am sorry you are unable.
May the Lord open your eyes.

then why did you say an individual can loose his salvation?

 

[Consumed]

is salvation dependent on the individual?

yes or no

are you talking about the start or the end?

we are running the race yes, so does being obedient count?

 

[cronjecj]

are you talking about the start or the end?

we are running the race yes, so does being obedient count?

start

is a saved person not obedient?

 

[cronjecj]

we are running the race yes

to run the race is not about keeping your salvation or to stay saved.

it's a race for the saved person.

 

[DesertJoe]

Oh dear !!
How are you twisting this to be about me?
This is silly.

I have no problem with Americans.
It is all these zany Christian cults of theirs spreading everywhere ..THOSE GROUPS.
This is about SPIRITUAL DECEPTION.
And even blind Freddy knows that 90% of them are American based.
You can't honestly disagree?
Honestly and before Christ?

Racism?
Oh please!!

I can see this is going nowhere....
I don't care for personal fights of self justification...
You may have the last word(s)....
Be my guest.
Nice speaking to you.

You hold yourself up as one who teaches & yet you condemn entire people groups. Jesus spoke to a Pharisee (Nicodemus) in John chapter 3. He was a Jew. He didn't get it. Jesus spoke to a Samaritan woman in John 4, and the Samaritans were doctrinally far far off. She got it. It is first and formost a heart issue. You are wrong to point to a nationality group and condemn them. Scripture calls this sin brother, and I care enough about you to tell you to repent. If Americans are on your heart as being spiritually blind, do as Jesus did with the Samaritans and come to America and give the good news.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

are you talking about the start or the end?

we are running the race yes, so does being obedient count?

Why would it matter. We are either saved or not saved. there is no inbetween. There is no start or finish.

It is dead in Christ or made alive in Christ. Those made alive HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. Those who are not, have not seen life, but the wrath of God abides in them.

 

[SantoSubito]

Congratulations everyone, you have hit upon the long standing Catholic view that faith and works are integral to salvation.

 

[Dude653]

You may say, who is this nasty Raistlin character?



...and you also may say, who is this guy that names himself after a fictional character in a Dragon Lance novel






e]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Congratulations everyone, you have hit upon the long standing Catholic view that faith and works are integral to salvation.

Actually it was around long before the romans thought it up. Cain tried to get right with God this way. Babylon religion was founded on this, and it spread all over the world. The Jews added this to their doctrines, and in fact Crucified Christ because of it.

This idea is greatest largest victory in keeping people from the truth of the gospel.

 

[Tobby17]

*Doesn't understand this thread*