The "Judeo -Christian" Lie

[ada]

menzogna del giudeo-cristianesimo


Google translate renders it fairly coherent.

The essay is largely based upon a book authored by Pope Benedict XVI's favorite rabbi and one of the world's most respected authorities on Orthodox Judaism, Rabbi Jacob Neusner titled, Jews and Christians: the myth of a common tradition.

The lengthy introduction is in English at Google books here:

Jews and Christians: the myth of a common tradition

The thesis of the book is stated plainly at the outset in refreshingly direct and concise language:

The thesis of this book is that Judaism and Christianity do not form a common tradition, "the Judeo-Christian tradition." They are not compatible ... only now, for reasons of politics and sociology, have some representatives of Judaism maintained otherwise. ​

While I agree with the learned rabbi in his statement of fact that Judaism and Christianity are entirely incompatible, I must add proselytism to the 'Noahide' religion to his list of reasons that some representatives of Judaism would claim otherwise (even Maimoides suggested that Christianity and Islam could be viewed as directing 'the Goyim' towards the 'Noahide laws') and I observe this 'Noahide' proselytism beginning many centuries prior to the "only now" of 2001 (the date Neusner's claim was published) that Neusner identified as the genesis of a claimed "Judeo-Christian tradition." In Neusner's book, Historical Synthesis, he references the 18th century Brit-ish Rabbi Jacob Emden and his thesis that the Gospels were written to teach the 'Noahide Laws' to 'Gentiles.' Perhaps it was for political or sociological reasons that Neusner overstated his case here. Perhaps it is for the same such reasons that he has more recently apparently softened the hard line evident in his 2001 thesis.
Maurice Pinay Blog: Don Curzio Nitoglia: The "Judeo -Christian" Lie

 

[Helloimandrewyo]

This is interesting, being a messianic jewish believer.

 

[Grandpa]

This is interesting, being a messianic jewish believer.

Does that mean that you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the Messiah? And yet you still consider yourself a jew?

I'm just trying to clarify, I really don't know what you mean.

God Bless You

 

[Helloimandrewyo]

I was born Jewish, but accepted Christ as my savior. I continue to try and uphold the old testament, with a new testament understanding.

 

[Grandpa]

I was born Jewish, but accepted Christ as my savior. I continue to try and uphold the old testament, with a new testament understanding.

I thought that is what you meant. Awesome. I do it exactly opposite of you. I understand the OT in light of the NT. I love the OT and all the things it says about the Lord Jesus. And all the types and shadows of the Saviour to come.

God Bless You

 

[Helloimandrewyo]

Man I really think both books go hand and hand. You can't have one without the other. They are a completion, like husband and wife. It's way awesome to find someone of like mind! It's an interesting learning experience for sure. A lot of stuff is exposed to you when you seek it out.

 

[systemdown101]

Man I really think both books go hand and hand. You can't have one without the other. They are a completion, like husband and wife. It's way awesome to find someone of like mind! It's an interesting learning experience for sure. A lot of stuff is exposed to you when you seek it out.

See, I'm the same way, being a Jewish follower of Yeshua. In fact, there really is nothing incompatable with Judaism and Christianity. Jesus is in fact the fulfillment of all things Jewish.

 

[jimmydiggs]

@Helloimandrewyo
@systemdown101


So in other words, you guys try to have the Grace of God while upholding the OT Law? Is that a correct understanding?

 

[Helloimandrewyo]

No, I always have the grace of God, that is what gives me the strength to do what he has asked of his people. I think its deut. 30 that says that the law is not some object no one can achieve, uphold, or understand. Then in john it says that in the beginning, the law was God, or an exstintion of him.

God exists, so i believe the law exists. So thats why i try and follow.

 

[lil_christian]

doesn't sound too different from the "P" in TULIP

 

[jimmydiggs]

No, I always have the grace of God, that is what gives me the strength to do what he has asked of his people. I think its deut. 30 that says that the law is not some object no one can achieve, uphold, or understand. Then in john it says that in the beginning, the law was God, or an exstintion of him.

God exists, so i believe the law exists. So thats why i try and follow.

Hmm, I see equivocation.

Let me try this.


Do you believe we should keep Kosher?

 

[jimmydiggs]

doesn't sound too different from the "P" in TULIP

I don't see anything posted yet that indicates toward Perseverence of the Saints.


I'm not interested in a debate though.

 

[Helloimandrewyo]

I keep kosher personally. I don't know how i feel about it being a law for all man kind, because there were different sets of laws. Adamic, noadic, davidic, mosaic... and so on. Some apply to jews, some apply to all man kind.

What it boiled down to for me is that all the laws that were given was for the preservation of life. Not that if you eat unkosher food you will die, but a lot of contemporary studies show that a lot of foods that were outlawed in the old testament have been found to carry diseases if not cooked properly, or have other attributes to them that are, or can be unhealthy. Everything god commanded i feel was commandd for a reason. God is a God of order, so i don't think he would just throw down rules cause he is bored. :]

 

[systemdown101]

@Helloimandrewyo
@systemdown101


So in other words, you guys try to have the Grace of God while upholding the OT Law? Is that a correct understanding?

My understanding is that while we don't HAVE to follow all the laws (and in any event we couldn't, I'd be busted by the ASPCA five seconds after I tried to sacrifice a sheep in my backyard), I do find that I *LIKE* to follow as many of the Lords laws as I can. For instance, I don't eat cheeseburgers,. But I've also found that I just don't like non-kosher foods. Seriously, pork really doesn't agree with me.

On the other hand, if I do eat a cheeseburger, I don't feel like I've committed a grave sin.

 

[jimmydiggs]

I suggest the New Covenent.

 

[systemdown101]

I suggest the New Covenent.

Well, you know how it is, one person esteems one day as holy, one person another, and so forth. I'm not telling anyone to do what I do, nor am I telling anyone they are unsaved for not doing what I do. I don't think the laws of kosher are something upon which salvation hinges upon at this point, but I ALSO don't see any harm in still keeping them if one chooses to.

 

[Grandpa]

Ham and bacon and pork ribs... Pork chops with that cream of mushroom gravy on the top or pan fried. Lobster and Crab. OOooh Yeaaaah. I go with Peters teaching on these things. Don't call unclean what I have called clean. Its in Acts around 11 or 12.

The bible also says not to flaunt your freedom in front of a brother that may make him stumble. So I shouldn't eat bacon or lobster in front of my Messianic Jew brother who keeps kosher.

On a different note my wife made a rack of lamb with a Pinot Noir rub last Passover. It was magnificent.

I don't think it is wrong to follow any laws or feasts of the OT as long as you don't make reasons to compel others to follow what you do. The only one you should compel anyone to follow is the Lord Jesus. Right?

 

[Helloimandrewyo]

I suggest the New Covenent.

Frankly i don't see anything new about it.

I see it very much like commentary for the old Testament. God Never changes, He said that. If you also take the bible as absolute truth, then you would have to accept the fact that things don't contradict themselves in the bible. So if we don't understand things, its our own limitations.

Yet there are a lot of things I know can't be fulfilled because we don't have a temple. Christ came to die for our sins during this period were there is no temple. Yet the bible even talks about when christ comes back, sacrifices will start again and such.

I don't feel the old testament is a book of myths and legands. I think it all has a lot of meaning in everyday life. As I said before, all the rules he gave was for the preservation of life, and so that we may live life to the fullest.

 

[Helloimandrewyo]

Ham and bacon and pork ribs... Pork chops with that cream of mushroom gravy on the top or pan fried. Lobster and Crab. OOooh Yeaaaah. I go with Peters teaching on these things. Don't call unclean what I have called clean. Its in Acts around 11 or 12.

The bible also says not to flaunt your freedom in front of a brother that may make him stumble. So I shouldn't eat bacon or lobster in front of my Messianic Jew brother who keeps kosher.

On a different note my wife made a rack of lamb with a Pinot Noir rub last Passover. It was magnificent.

I don't think it is wrong to follow any laws or feasts of the OT as long as you don't make reasons to compel others to follow what you do. The only one you should compel anyone to follow is the Lord Jesus. Right?

I was born jewish, thats a lot of the reason i don't eat it. I feel like the leviticul laws still apply to the Jews, and thas why i hold onto it. For people who come into the understanding of these things, i don't think they are held to the same standerd.

Enjoi those pulled rib subs!!!

 

[Helloimandrewyo]

Well, you know how it is, one person esteems one day as holy, one person another, and so forth. I'm not telling anyone to do what I do, nor am I telling anyone they are unsaved for not doing what I do. I don't think the laws of kosher are something upon which salvation hinges upon at this point, but I ALSO don't see any harm in still keeping them if one chooses to.

Well explained, i share the same feelings.