Church built on the Rock

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M

midwestbob

Guest
#21
That would make sense if the passage went like this:

17And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.
And I say to thee: upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (Matthew 17-18 modified).

But the fact remains that the passage does not go like that instead it goes:

17And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18And I say to thee: That thou art Peter (rock); and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (Matthew 17-18)

The fact that Christ renames Simon rock and then says upon this rock I will build my Church means the only interpretation you can have of this passage without going through grammatical gymnastics is that Christ built the Church on Peter. If Christ meant what you said why even rename Simon, or mention him at all in verse 18?
Mat 16:18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

One side argues this verse tells us Peter is the rock. The other side says that it is Christ who is the rock. It’s a matter of interpretation, neither side can conclusively prove from this verse their view is correct, so we must look to Scripture to determine who is the rock and who the church is built on.

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with
the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ
himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

The verses above clearly show the church (body of believers) is built with Christ as the cornerstone not Peter.

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our
fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

The verses above show we all drink from the same Rock. That Rock is Christ just as the verse says not Peter.
 

dscherck

Banned [Reason: persistent, ongoing Catholic heres
Aug 3, 2009
1,272
3
0
#22
I love how people ignore basic grammar in order to "prove" us Catholics are wrong. ;)
 
G

Graybeard

Guest
#23
I love how people ignore basic grammar in order to "prove" us Catholics are wrong. ;)
I really don't think anyone is trying to prove you Catholics wrong......we ought not to look to man, look rather to our Lord Jesus Christ, He IS the cornerstone!

2Sa 22:47 "The LORD lives! Blessed be my Rock! Let God be exalted, The Rock of my salvation!

Psa 95:1 Oh come, let us sing to the LORD! Let us shout joyfully to the Rock of our salvation
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#24
Mat 16:18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

One side argues this verse tells us Peter is the rock. The other side says that it is Christ who is the rock. It’s a matter of interpretation, neither side can conclusively prove from this verse their view is correct, so we must look to Scripture to determine who is the rock and who the church is built on.

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with
the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ
himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

The verses above clearly show the church (body of believers) is built with Christ as the cornerstone not Peter.

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our
fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

The verses above show we all drink from the same Rock. That Rock is Christ just as the verse says not Peter.
I don't see how Matthew 16:18 could be any more conclusive than it already is. In the same thought Christ renamed Peter "rock" and then said "and upon this rock I shall build my Church", using the same Greek word both times. It really doesn't get any plainer than that.
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#25
I really don't think anyone is trying to prove you Catholics wrong......we ought not to look to man, look rather to our Lord Jesus Christ, He IS the cornerstone!

2Sa 22:47 "The LORD lives! Blessed be my Rock! Let God be exalted, The Rock of my salvation!

Psa 95:1 Oh come, let us sing to the LORD! Let us shout joyfully to the Rock of our salvation
First see posts 10 and 11 and then read this post.

The fact that Christ is elsewhere, by a different metaphor, called the cornerstone (Eph. 2:20, 1 Pet. 2:4-8) does not disprove that here Peter is the foundation. Christ is naturally the principal and, since he will be returning to heaven, the invisible foundation of the Church that he will establish; but Peter is named by him as the secondary and, because he and his successors will remain on earth, the visible foundation. Peter can be a foundation only because Christ is the cornerstone.
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#26
I love how people ignore basic grammar in order to "prove" us Catholics are wrong. ;)
Yeah it makes no sense to me. If the passage was translated to preserve the play on words that is found in the Greek in the more popular Protestant translations I don't think we would have this problem.

If every translation said "You are Rock, and upon this Rock i will build my Church" we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

I do wish I had a better knowledge of Koine Greek so that I could demonstrate how the phrase "and upon this rock I will build my Church" relates grammatically to "You are rock". The grammatical relation between the two phrases is clear in the Latin, but demonstrating that would be pointless since they would reject it based on the fact that it's Latin.
 

Cheekygrin

Senior Member
Jan 25, 2011
125
11
18
43
#27
Who do you say I am? That and the answer to it is the theme of what Jesus is talking about. The revelation of the Christ. Jesus.
To think that the Church is built on Peter is funny to me. Peter wasn't what you could call the most stable foundation. He is rebuked by Christ as satan for not having in mind the things of God but rather the things of man, he denies Christ, he denies Christ, he denies Christ, and then he goes on to argue with God about food making him unholy, and ostracizes gentiles from the faith if they don't adhere to Jewish law and then is rebuked by Paul for doing so. To me, this is NOT what I'd call a solid rock of foundation.
On the other hand we have the divine and saving revelation of Jesus being the Savior. Now, lets look at that as the foundation rock for all Christianity to be based upon. Here, Jesus is the focus. God gets the glory. The priority of our attention is Christ centered, not man centered and therefore our personal relationship with the Father and the strength we receive from it is secure. From this revelation flows the freedom from sin, the shared inheritance with Christ of our returned authority and dominion that the first Adam lost, the gift of the Holy Spirit and much more of all else that a relationship with our savior and shepherd implies.
But whatever. What people believe doesn't have to make sense right? So I'm sure you won't mind that I choose to go with the interpretation that mirrors the same revelation as Peter that I received which has brought me peace and joy and salvation and everything else that goes along with it.

I've looked at both sides. I've prayed about both. I've settled with the answer that is politically motivated just as you have. I just voted for a different candidate.
Isaiah 6:6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace
There will beno end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Merry Christmas by the way. Or for those of you who prefer, Merry Petermas.
 

dscherck

Banned [Reason: persistent, ongoing Catholic heres
Aug 3, 2009
1,272
3
0
#28
Politically motivated?

How about Christ motivated? It was Our Lord and Saviour who chose Simon, and renamed him "Rock" Why is it so hard to accept the clear words of Our Lord?
How often do we see in the Scriptures instances where God changes the name of a person?

The passage in that section is very clear. Our Lord talks to Simon, asks him who does Simon think He is. Simon responds with the Truth, that Jesus is Lord.
Jesus then gives Simon a new name, Rock (Petros in Greek, Kephas/Cephas in Aramaic), and in that very same sentence tells him that on this Rock He will found His Church. Not only that, in an echo of Isaiah 22:22, He then tells Peter that He will give him the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. This symbolizes Peter's new position as the chief steward of Christ's kingdom.

It doesn't make sense to imply that the Rock in this particular passage is anything but Peter. I mean, if we're to believe the idea that Peter is merely a small pebble, then why would Our Lord in the very next sentence give this small pebble the keys to the kingdom of Heaven? That's a symbolic gesture telling the world that this person has been granted a position of high authority.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#29
Politically motivated?

How about Christ motivated? It was Our Lord and Saviour who chose Simon, and renamed him "Rock" Why is it so hard to accept the clear words of Our Lord?
How often do we see in the Scriptures instances where God changes the name of a person?

The passage in that section is very clear. Our Lord talks to Simon, asks him who does Simon think He is. Simon responds with the Truth, that Jesus is Lord.
Jesus then gives Simon a new name, Rock (Petros in Greek, Kephas/Cephas in Aramaic), and in that very same sentence tells him that on this Rock He will found His Church. Not only that, in an echo of Isaiah 22:22, He then tells Peter that He will give him the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. This symbolizes Peter's new position as the chief steward of Christ's kingdom.

It doesn't make sense to imply that the Rock in this particular passage is anything but Peter. I mean, if we're to believe the idea that Peter is merely a small pebble, then why would Our Lord in the very next sentence give this small pebble the keys to the kingdom of Heaven? That's a symbolic gesture telling the world that this person has been granted a position of high authority.
It is impossible for Peter to be the rock for look at what Jesus said about the rock
Matthew 16:18
(18) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


Yet the gates of hell did prevail against Peter
Matthew 16:23
(23) But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

If the church is built upon Peter then the church has a weak foundation but, it is built upon Christ who is a sure foundation
Isaiah 28:16
(16) Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
Ephesians 2:20
(20) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;



 

dscherck

Banned [Reason: persistent, ongoing Catholic heres
Aug 3, 2009
1,272
3
0
#30
It is impossible for Peter to be the rock for look at what Jesus said about the rock
Matthew 16:18
(18) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


Yet the gates of hell did prevail against Peter
Matthew 16:23
(23) But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

If the church is built upon Peter then the church has a weak foundation but, it is built upon Christ who is a sure foundation
Isaiah 28:16
(16) Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
Ephesians 2:20
(20) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;



It's entirely possible for Christ to build His Church on Peter. You'll note that in John 21 we see Our Lord asking Peter 3x if he loved Him. And 3x Peter replied yes. After each positive answer, Peter is exhorted by Our Lord to take care of His sheep. IE, He was reinstating Peter and telling Peter that he would need to take care of the others. Just because a man stumbles doesn't mean that the gates of hell have prevailed over him. Our Lord saw that, and that's why even after being denied 3x by Peter, He gave Peter the opportunity to reaffirm his love 3x.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#31
It's entirely possible for Christ to build His Church on Peter. You'll note that in John 21 we see Our Lord asking Peter 3x if he loved Him. And 3x Peter replied yes. After each positive answer, Peter is exhorted by Our Lord to take care of His sheep. IE, He was reinstating Peter and telling Peter that he would need to take care of the others. Just because a man stumbles doesn't mean that the gates of hell have prevailed over him. Our Lord saw that, and that's why even after being denied 3x by Peter, He gave Peter the opportunity to reaffirm his love 3x.
A doctrine cannot be built on one verse alone. There are many verses in the Bible showing that God is the rock can you show me verses where it says that Peter is the rock?
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#32
A doctrine cannot be built on one verse alone. There are many verses in the Bible showing that God is the rock can you show me verses where it says that Peter is the rock?
Matthew 16:18 for one. The fact that God is usually referred to as rock is what makes the renaming of Simon so unusual and striking.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#33
Matthew 16:18 for one. The fact that God is usually referred to as rock is what makes the renaming of Simon so unusual and striking.

That is questionable because Christ is referring to what was said in previous verses. Also the last part of verse 18 says the gates of hell shall not prevail against IT, it does not say prevail against thee. Is that the only verse you have?
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#34
That is questionable because Christ is referring to what was said in previous verses. Also the last part of verse 18 says the gates of hell shall not prevail against IT, it does not say prevail against thee. Is that the only verse you have?
It's pretty obvious based on the grammar and the fact that the phrase "and on this rock I will build my Church" comes directly after Christ renamed Simon rock "And I say unto thee thou art Peter (rock)". It's obvious that Christ is connecting Peter and the rock, In Aramaic (which is what they would have spoke) the connection is even more obvious because it would have went "And I say unto thee, thou art Kepha and on this Kepha I will build my Church". It's also all one thought since the NT writers used and to mark the end of a thought (since they lacked punctuation). Christ gives us no indication that he was referring back to Peters previous statement in verse 16.

Then we get down to the question of why did Christ choose this moment in this discourse to rename Simon rock? More to the point why even rename Simon at all? But Christ chose this moment, this discourse, and this sentence structure to rename Simon "rock". Christ chose to rename Simon "rock" and then say (in the same thought) "and on this rock I will build my Church. And you mean to tell me the renaming of Simon has no significance and was completely unrelated to the entire discourse in Matthew 16:16-18. Sorry but that simply doesn't make any sense whatsoever.


Verse 18 says the gates of hell shall not prevail against it because it is referring to the Church (which is built upon Peter).
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#35
It's pretty obvious based on the grammar and the fact that the phrase "and on this rock I will build my Church" comes directly after Christ renamed Simon rock "And I say unto thee thou art Peter (rock)". It's obvious that Christ is connecting Peter and the rock, In Aramaic (which is what they would have spoke) the connection is even more obvious because it would have went "And I say unto thee, thou art Kepha and on this Kepha I will build my Church". It's also all one thought since the NT writers used and to mark the end of a thought (since they lacked punctuation). Christ gives us no indication that he was referring back to Peters previous statement in verse 16.

Then we get down to the question of why did Christ choose this moment in this discourse to rename Simon rock? More to the point why even rename Simon at all? But Christ chose this moment, this discourse, and this sentence structure to rename Simon "rock". Christ chose to rename Simon "rock" and then say (in the same thought) "and on this rock I will build my Church. And you mean to tell me the renaming of Simon has no significance and was completely unrelated to the entire discourse in Matthew 16:16-18. Sorry but that simply doesn't make any sense whatsoever.


Verse 18 says the gates of hell shall not prevail against it because it is referring to the Church (which is built upon Peter).
If the church is built upon Peter then it has a weak foundation, why aren't you showing me more verses to support your claim that Peter is the rock?
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#36
If the church is built upon Peter then it has a weak foundation, why aren't you showing me more verses to support your claim that Peter is the rock?
Why are you not explaining how Christ was somehow not referring to Peter when he said "and upon this rock I will build my Church" or what the significance or purpose of the renaming of Simon was in that discourse if it had no bearing on anything said in the discourse at all?

But I've said this once and I'll say it again. The fact that Christ is elsewhere, by a different metaphor, called the cornerstone (Eph. 2:20, 1 Pet. 2:4-8) does not disprove that here Peter is the foundation. Christ is naturally the principal and, since he will be returning to heaven, the invisible foundation of the Church that he will establish; but Peter is named by him as the secondary and, because he and his successors will remain on earth, the visible foundation. Peter can be a foundation only because Christ is the cornerstone.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#37
Why are you not explaining how Christ was somehow not referring to Peter when he said "and upon this rock I will build my Church" or what the significance or purpose of the renaming of Simon was in that discourse if it had no bearing on anything said in the discourse at all?

But I've said this once and I'll say it again. The fact that Christ is elsewhere, by a different metaphor, called the cornerstone (Eph. 2:20, 1 Pet. 2:4-8) does not disprove that here Peter is the foundation. Christ is naturally the principal and, since he will be returning to heaven, the invisible foundation of the Church that he will establish; but Peter is named by him as the secondary and, because he and his successors will remain on earth, the visible foundation. Peter can be a foundation only because Christ is the cornerstone.
Here the words of Peter himself who tells us who the rock is
Acts 4:8-12
(8) Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
(9) If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;
(10) Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
(11) This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
(12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Also Peter was not the leader of the early church it was James
Acts 15:13
(13) And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
Acts 15:19
(19) Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:


 
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
39
0
#38
The Bible says that no other foundation can be laid but Jesus Christ,who is the chief cornerstone.

The Bible says that Jesus is the head of the Church.

It is Jesus that started Christianity,for He is the first man to be right with God,and He is the Messiah,the Christ.

Everything is built upon Jesus Christ,who started the Church,and no other man can start the Church,for only a sinless man can start the Church,who is the man Christ Jesus.

Which means Jesus is unmovable,unshakable,stedfast,who started the Church that can never be overthrown,never moved,never disannuled,never taken over.

So Peter being the Rock poses a problem.

How can the Church be built upon Peter who is a fallible man,that made mistakes even after his conversion,to where Paul withstood Peter to the face to point out a fault he had of being prejudice.
How can Peter be a Rock who is a fallible man,and has faults,for being a Rock would mean unmovable.

Only a sinless man can have the Church be built upon Him,and if Jesus started the Church,and is the chief cornerstone,how can the Church be built upon Peter.
How can the Church be built upon Jesus and Peter.

The only way the Church being built upon Peter would make sense,is if it applied to Peter preaching the initial message of salvation in Acts 2:38,where the Lord added daily to the Church such as should be saved.

But the truth is Jesus started the Church,who is the head of the Church,who is the chief cornerstone of the Church,and no other foundation can be laid but Jesus Christ,so everything is built upon Jesus Christ.

Jesus being the chief cornerstone of the Church proves that the Church is built upon Jesus Christ,because without the chief cornerstone,there is no building at all,for the building would not get started.

And the Church cannot be built upon both Jesus and Peter,so I will choose Jesus,for if it is built upon Him,then it shall never be overthrown or fall.

If Jesus referred to Peter as a rock,that the Church would be built upon,it would mean that Jesus gave Peter authority to preach the initial message to the people in Acts 2:38,but the Church cannot be built upon Peter,for Jesus is the chief cornerstone.
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#39
Also Peter was not the leader of the early church it was James
Acts 15:13
(13) And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
Acts 15:19
(19) Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
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1. Matthew 14:23-33

Peter is uniquely empowered by Jesus to walk on water, and when his faith begins to falter, our Lord does not allow him to go under. This is a prelude to Jesus promising to give his authority that can never fail to Peter in Matthew 16. The gift of the papacy is here assured not to depend upon the person of Peter or of his successors, but on the promise and power of Christ.

2. Matthew 17:24-27

After receiving the promise of authority in Matthew 16, Peter is once again given supernatural power to provide for both himself and Jesus when the first-century equivalent of the IRS comes calling. Peter acts as Christ’s "vicar" (or in the place of Jesus) in miraculous fashion, guaranteed by Jesus not to fail.

3. Luke 4:16-5:10

Luke gives us another example of Peter’s unique and supernatural authority to act as Christ’s "vicar." Jesus declares he is the Messiah (cf. 4:16-21), then goes out and demonstrates it by performing miracles (cf. 4:35-39). The multitudes that gather to hear him at the shore of Lake Gennesaret press in on him so that he has to step off shore into one of two boats docked there. The boat he steps into just happens to be Peter’s boat. Jesus proclaims the gospel from the barque of Peter (5:1-3). Then, Jesus steps out of the boat and tells Peter to step into that same boat and go fishing. Can you imagine the people present? They must have been thinking that Jesus was nuts! Multitudes have to stand there and watch Peter fish? Peter then says, "We have toiled all night and caught nothing" (v. 5), yet he lets down the nets at the command of Jesus. When they catch so many fish they need to bring out the other boat to haul in the load, Peter realizes that Jesus is calling him to more than catching catfish. Fish are a metaphor for Christians. Peter says, "Depart from me, for I am a sinful man" (v. 8). Jesus responds, "Do not be afraid; henceforth you will be catching men." Peter receives a unique and singular calling from Christ to be the fisher of men. And once again, Peter receives supernatural power that cannot fail to fulfill his unique calling.

4. Luke 22:24-32

In this text, Jesus teaches the apostles the true nature of authority, especially in verses 24-28. True authority in the New Covenant is commanded to be servant of all. He will speak with infallible authority just as Christ did, but he must also wash the feet of his brothers just as Christ did. In this context, Jesus said to the apostles:

[A]s my Father appointed a kingdom for me, so do I appoint for you that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you (Gk. humas, "you all" [plural]), that he might sift you (Gk. plural again) like wheat, but I have prayed for you (Gk. sou, singular—Peter alone) that your faith (Gk. singular again) may not fail; and when you (Gk. singular) have turned again, strengthen your brethren.

In the context of committing his kingdom’s authority to the apostles to govern the Church (the "Israel of God"; see Gal 6:16), Jesus especially prays for Peter so that he may be the source of strength and unity for the rest of the apostles. If the apostles want to be protected from the devil’s attempts to divide and destroy them and the Church, they must be in communion with Peter. This is precisely what the Catholic Church has been teaching for 2,000 years.

5. John 10:16

Jesus prophesied: "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd." Who is this prophetic shepherd? The answer seems simple. And on one level it is. Jesus declared himself to be "the good shepherd" (Gk. poimein, "shepherd" or "pastor") in John 10:14. Jesus is the Shepherd. Yet, if we dig deeper into the text we discover another meaning as well. In the context of prophesying about this "one flock" and "one shepherd," Jesus says he must gather "other sheep," referring to the Gentiles. Who does our Lord use as the shepherd to bring this prophecy to pass? The answer is found in two texts, which we’ll look at next.

6. John 21:1-17

Here, we find another example of Jesus aiding the fishing of the apostles who "caught nothing" all night long (v. 3). At the command of Jesus they let down their nets and catch an astonishing 153 "large fish" (v. 11). When Jesus commands the net to be hauled ashore, Peter heaves the entire net of fish to shore by himself. No man can lift that size of a catch out of the water and on to the shore by himself, but Peter was given supernatural strength to do just that. Fish are symbols representing the faithful (recall Lk 5:8-10). And the symbol of "the net" is used elsewhere in the New Testament for the Church (see Mt 13:47). Not only is Peter’s ability to carry these fish (all the faithful) a miracle, but the fact that the "net" is not broken is also a miracle. The Church that holds all the faithful with Peter holding the power will never be destroyed.

In this context Jesus then asks Peter three times, "Do you love me?" When Peter responds in the affirmative the second time, Jesus responds by commanding Peter to "tend (Gk. poimaine, "shepherd") my sheep" (v. 16). Jesus the Shepherd here commissions Peter to be the prophetic shepherd of John 10:16 to shepherd the entire people of God.

7. Acts 10:1-48

In this chapter from the Acts of the Apostles, Jesus personally sees to the fulfillment of the prophecy of John 10:16. He appears to Peter and commands him to bring the gospel to the Gentiles by way of Cornelius, the centurion. When Peter then "commanded [Cornelius and his household] to be baptized" in Acts 10:48, the prophecy of John 10:16 was fulfilled. There was now one fold and one shepherd for Jews and Gentiles. That ministry has continued to this day in the successors of Peter, the bishops of Rome.

8. Acts 1:15-26

As a matter of historical record, Peter takes the helm of the Church and gives an infallible interpretation of Psalm 69:26 and 109:8 in choosing a successor for Judas.

9. Acts 15

The ministry of Peter as "the shepherd" of the universal Church continues. When a heresy was spreading in the church at Antioch that was so widespread and problematic that Paul and Barnabas could not quell the resulting confusion, the church there decided to "go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders about this question" (15:1-2). The question concerned salvation and the Old Covenant law in relation to the gospel. Some among "believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up, and said, ‘It is necessary to circumcise . . . and . . . to keep the law of Moses’" (v. 5) or else you "cannot be saved" (v. 1). In particular, they spoke of the Gentiles who were converting to Christ, but the same would apply to all. The real question was: Are Christians saved by the grace of Christ in the New Covenant, or must they obey the Old Covenant as well for salvation? The first Church Council (of Jerusalem) was convened and the theological question was put to rest by Peter’s pronouncement in Acts 15. When everyone was arguing, Peter arose and declared the truth on the matter, and then (to translate the following text in modern parlance) told everyone to shut up. The matter was settled by the "one shepherd" given to the Church as a source of unity and authority:

The apostles and elders were gathered together to consider this matter. And after there had been much debate, Peter rose and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made choice . . . that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe . . . we believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will." And all the assembly kept silence . . . (Acts 15:6-12)

10. Matthew 10:2

In the context of Jesus saying to his disciples, "the harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; pray therefore the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest" (9:37-38), Jesus calls the apostles to be those "laborers" (see Mt 9:35-10:1). Notice, Peter is then called first in the list of apostles. We know this word would not mean "first" chronologically here because Peter was not the first called by Christ in time—Andrew was (see Jn 1:40-41). The Greek word protos, "first," often denotes a primacy in authority, not necessarily in time. It can be translated as "chief." For example, Paul says of himself: "The saying is sure and worthy of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. And I am the foremost (protos) of sinners" (1 Tm 1:15).

Christ is referred to as prototokos, or "first-begotten" in Colossians 1:15. Here Paul teaches us about Christ’s eternal generation, which has been accomplished outside of time. He is, therefore, the Creator and the one who has authority over all things, according to the text. Colossians 1:15-18 reads:

[Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the first-born (Gk. prototokos) of all creation; for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth . . . He is before all things . . . He is the head of the body, the Church . . . that in everything he might be pre-eminent. (Gk. proteuon, a verb with the same root as protos and prototokos)

In a notably direct and overt manner, by referring to Peter as the "first" apostle, Matthew presents the first Bishop of Rome just as we see him represented in the rest of the New Testament; he is revealed to have a primacy of authority over all the apostles and, indeed, over the entire Church.

Taken from: No Rocks Required | Catholic Answers
 
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SantoSubito

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#40
Also Peter was not the leader of the early church it was James
Acts 15:13
(13) And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
Acts 15:19
(19) Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:


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Addressing the question of James:


James, Greater than Peter?

Since the late 1990s, several books have been written about James, the “brother of Jesus,” most notably Just James: The Brother of Jesus in History and Tradition (Columbia, SC: University of South Caroline Press, 1997), by John Painter; James, Brother of Jesus (London: SCM Press Ltd, 1996), by Pierre-Antoine Bernheim; and James the Brother of Jesus: The Key to Unlocking the Secrets of Early Christianity and the Dead Sea Scrolls (Viking Press, 1997), by Robert Eisenman. All three authors write about the “minimizing” of James by early Church writers and authorities, and either overtly or implicitly claim James was the victim of Church politics aimed at keeping Peter’s pre-eminence intact.

Bernheim, for example, states,

Acts and the Letter to the Galatians attribute considerable authority to James, seemingly greater than that of Peter. Questions of power and authority in the primitive church are of more than academic interest, since the Roman Catholic Church bases the supremacy of the pope, the Bishop of Rome, on the primacy of Peter. According to Catholic doctrine, Peter, who was designated the foundation and the ultimate authority of the apostolic Church (Mt 16:13-20), maintained his primacy throughout his life and transmitted it to his successors as bishops of Rome. (James, Brother of Jesus, 191)

Bernheim is correct to note the importance of Matthew 16 in the matter of Petrine authority. But does Acts 15 contradict the famous “keys of the kingdom” passage and even portray James as a greater authority than Peter? Pentecostal author Rosanna J. Evans makes such a case in her booklet, “Crossing The Threshold of Deception”:

Among the more compelling arguments [for Peter not being pope], is that of the leadership at the Jerusalem Council. . . . What is of interest here, is not necessarily the proclamations made at this council, but the conspicuous position (or lack thereof) Peter held. While he was, without doubt, present at this momentous council, he certainly did not preside over it; this honor went to James, not Peter. Additionally, although Peter had some say in the procession itself, it was James, not Peter, who decided the outcome of the deliberations . . . Without a doubt, the man James was the one who presided over the Jerusalem Council. (18, 19)

In his commentary on Acts, Evangelical scholar I. Howard Marshall presents Peter as a central but still lesser authority than James, a perspective held by numerous Evangelical commentators. While Peter appealed to experience, Marshall states, “The decisive voice in the meeting, however, lay neither with Peter nor with the delegates from Antioch, but with James. This may have been due partly to the position which he increasingly came to hold as the foremost leader in the church (12:17), and partly also to the fact that he was regarded as a champion of a conservative Jewish outlook” (Acts, 249, 251).

Was Peter really inconspicuous at the Jerusalem Council? Did he take a secondary role to James? What does the text really say?

Acts 15 can be broken into four basic sections.

1. The first (vs. 1-5) sets the scene and explains the conflict between Gentile and Jewish Christians over the observance of various Mosaic customs and laws.

2. The second (vs. 6-18)—the section that concerns us here—contains the discussion, including debate (v. 7a), Peter’s speech (vs. 7b-11), the witness of Paul and Barnabas (v. 12), and James’ speech (vs. 13-21).

3. The third section (vs. 19-29) explains the decision reached at the council, including the letter to be sent to the churches.

4. The final section (vs. 30-35) presents some of the reaction to the letter.

The council consisted of “the apostles and the elders” who had gathered together to “look into the matter” and come to some sort of solution. The Catholic understanding is that this gathering was a blueprint and prototype for future Church councils. As such, it included the gathering of leaders from the entire Church, not just a particular region; it made decrees binding on all Christians; it addressed matters of faith and morals; and it issued documents recording essential statements, decrees, canons, and so forth. Finally, but certainly not least, it was presided over by the pope (either in person or by representative).

The Jerusalem Council began with a spirited debate (v. 7a). Then Peter spoke, appealing to the “early days” and his experience in bringing the gospel to the household of Cornelius, a Gentile (Acts 10). We are saved by grace, Peter stated, not by works of the Law (v. 11). A marked silence followed his speech (v. 12a). Then Barnabas and Paul testified to God’s work “among the Gentiles” (v. 12b). After they had finished, James gave his speech, pointing to both the words of Peter (“Simeon,” v. 14) and the Prophets (vs. 15-18). He then offered his “judgment”: the Gentiles would not have to observe the ceremonial Law. An authoritative letter was then written, stating “it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and us to lay upon you no greater burden” than abstaining from “things sacrificed to idols,” from blood and things strangled, and “from fornication” (vs. 28-29).

Petrine Primacy in Acts

The Catholic claim that Peter was the first pope is not based on sola scriptura, selective use of Scripture, or just a single passage of Scripture. (See “Beyond Matthew 16:18,” page 30.)

As for Acts 15, a number of factors point to Peter actually being both the leader at the council and the leader of the early Church. First, there is the manner in which his speech begins and ends. By standing up to speak after the debate had subsided, Peter made an emphatic physical gesture affirming his authority and centrality. The silence afterwards indicated the finality of what Peter had just said; no one disputes either his speech or his right to make it. In fact, the witness of Paul and Barnabas, along with James’s speech, only reinforce and agree with what Peter says.

Secondly, few non-Catholic commentators seem to notice the striking wording Peter used in his speech. If he was only a witness, wouldn’t he have appealed only to his experience? But while Peter did focus on his experience, the main object of his speech was God: “God made a choice among you, that by my mouth . . .”; “And God . . . bore witness to them, giving them the Holy Spirit”; “He made no distinction”; and “why therefore do you put God to the test?” (vs. 7-10). It is readily apparent that Peter was quite comfortable in being a spokesman for God. Even James seems to take this for granted by stating, “Simeon has related how God first concerned himself . . .” (v. 14). There is an immediacy to Peter’s relating of God’s work which is noticeably absent from James’s speech.

As mentioned, Paul, Barnabas, and James all reinforced and agreed with Peter’s declaration, albeit in different ways. The first two related “the signs and wonders God” had been working “among the Gentiles” (v. 12). James pointed first to the words of Peter and then to the Prophets (vs. 14-15). Those who claim James’s speech was the definitive one point to the language in verse 19 (“Therefore it is my judgement . . .”) as evidence for James’s primacy. Yet James is simply suggesting a way of implementing what Peter had already definitively expressed. “Peter speaks as the head and spokesman of the apostolic Church,” state Scott Hahn and Curtis Mitch in the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible, “He formulates a doctrinal judgment about the means of salvation, whereas James takes the floor after him to suggest a pastoral plan for inculturating the gospel in mixed communities where Jewish and Gentile believers live side by side (15:13-21)” (232).

Problems with Authority

One can only conclude that those commentators and scholars who take issue with Peter’s primacy have, for various reasons, taken an anti-Catholic, anti-papal stance. They labor under a skewed understanding of what the papacy is and how the papal office relates to the Church as a whole. As a result, they are prone to interpret Peter’s actions and the history of the early Church incorrectly.

If James was the leader of the early Church, or even the first pope, why aren’t his successors the head of the universal Church? These and related questions are not adequately addressed by those who say James, not Peter, was the leader of the early Church.

Taken from: Was James the Real Leader of the Early Church? | Catholic Answers