Political question

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TheGrungeDiva

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In the spirit of the other thread about the republican candidates, I have some questions:

What issue or issues are important to you (all), as a Christian?

Why?

Can you provide biblical support for this?

For example, you might say something like, "A politician should support social programs like food stamps, because Jesus spoke about feeding the hungry throughout the Gospels."

After we have some of these issues, we can look at the candidates and see which candidates line up with Biblical values.
 
Gods word says I will bless those who bless israel and curse those who curse israel. If we want to be blessed as a nation we need to elect those who support israel.
 
Gods word says I will bless those who bless israel and curse those who curse israel. If we want to be blessed as a nation we need to elect those who support israel.

Thank you for this.

First, can you give the reference (book, chapter, verse) for the above? I remember that, too, but not sure where it is.

Second, is "supporting" the modern nation of Israel the same as "blessing" the ancient people of Israel (or perhaps God is referring to Israel the person, Jacob, and his children ... we would have to look at it in its context to know for sure).

Thirdly, how does one support Israel? Obviously, giving support to Hammas (sp?) or any other group that has stated as its purpose the destruction of the Jews in any way, shape, or form would be a form of cursing Israel. Would it be necessary, however, to give military aid to the modern nation of Israel to fulfill this commandment of God? What about financial support?

Would the support of our prayers be a sufficient "blessing" to the nation of Israel?

Did the Prophets, and Jesus himself, not curse Israel, Judah, or cities therein (Jerusalem, for example) for turning their backs on the Lord, and going against the Lord? Are we, as Christians, not also called to do the same? Perhaps not cursing people, but at least reminding them of their duties to God's commandments.

Excellent start. I hope to see more.
 
Genesis 12:1-3, yes god mentions many times the nation of israel being his people. To suppprt israel personally you can pray for them and to support financialy there are ministries to go through to adopt an olive tree and different things like this you can do. There are products made from israel that you can buy that help support the nation. As a nation elected leaders should stand by israel with aid in various ways financial or just backing them up in whatever may be. As far as the jews and jesus goes he prayed for the very people crusifying him say forgive them they know not what they do. As with anything you should study god view on a subject and do as god leads you. Voting an official that is known not to support israel maybe what the bible calls casting your lot with those who are against israel.
 
Genesis 12:1-3, yes god mentions many times the nation of israel being his people. To suppprt israel personally you can pray for them and to support financialy there are ministries to go through to adopt an olive tree and different things like this you can do. There are products made from israel that you can buy that help support the nation. As a nation elected leaders should stand by israel with aid in various ways financial or just backing them up in whatever may be. As far as the jews and jesus goes he prayed for the very people crusifying him say forgive them they know not what they do. As with anything you should study god view on a subject and do as god leads you. Voting an official that is known not to support israel maybe what the bible calls casting your lot with those who are against israel.

Thank you, excellent points.

Please invite others to join this conversation. I would like to invite others to put in their ideas for Biblical values. There has been so much discussion recently about parties, and I think we (myself especially) need to step back, and stop looking at parties, because in the end, no party is going to save us. Only God can save us. The best we can do is consider the issues, and try to vote for the person(s) who match biblical principals best. I've been a staunch liberal democrat almost my whole life, but I'm starting to think it's time to think outside the box. Although his economic policies have been good and have supported the poor in ways that I think are in line with the Christ he claims to follow, I'm not convinced Obama is following Christ when it comes to foreign policy, and that makes me sad, because I did vote for him, and had great hopes, and I'm not sure I can continue to vote for someone who seems so bloodthirsty and so much in contrast to the Prince of Peace.
 
Gods word says I will bless those who bless israel and curse those who curse israel. If we want to be blessed as a nation we need to elect those who support israel.
I know this is in the bible.....but it's hard to want to live by seeing as how isreal is not evenly remotely a christian state. Why should we support unerringly a non christian state?
 
djness, you have to remember, the jews is still looking for God's son to come the first time. I don't remember where it is in the bible, I remember reading it, The Jews is God's chosen people. If we go against HIS chosen people, then we go against God. Now The Jews rejected Jesus Christ and salvation was (is) offered to the non jews. In the end, the Jewish nations will realize that Jesus wasn't just a teacher but the Promised one. Now when we accept the salvation that was given to the Jews first then to us, we become Gods chosen too.
 
Have you heard christians reffered to as the bride of christ. Israel is the nation after gods own heart. This may lead to other? S about the trintity and such because there is one god. We belong to jesus, jews belong to the father. This could be a huge teaching more than what this forum can provide but like it our not without the jew providing a holy line for our savior to come from, gentiles may not have been grafted in. Notice I said grafted. Look up meaning of grafted. You can cut a branch from an olive tree and draft it into the root system and in time it will produce another tree out of that rootless branch. There are twelve tribes of israel. Jesus is from tribe of judah. Without the jews being set apart to god, christians (gentiles) may have never had the chance to know the one true god. The jews have the torah which is the first 5 books of the bible. Do you read and belive and put faith into the story of adam and eve, noah, moses and abraham. These are jewish writings yet in our christian bible. Jewish writings start the bible. If you don't agree with an individual jews beliefs, agree to disagree. But to say why honor israel, its our heavenly fathers wish. Israel is our holy land as well. The first christians came from there. I have found by looking at the bible from hebraic (jewish) perspective, I have gained a better understanding of gods word and closer to god. That's the goal of christians and jews alike, getting closer to god. True we have many differences but the same common goal. I hope that helps answer the above question a little bit.
 
I know this is in the bible.....but it's hard to want to live by seeing as how isreal is not evenly remotely a christian state. Why should we support unerringly a non christian state?

djness, you have to remember, the jews is still looking for God's son to come the first time. I don't remember where it is in the bible, I remember reading it, The Jews is God's chosen people. If we go against HIS chosen people, then we go against God. Now The Jews rejected Jesus Christ and salvation was (is) offered to the non jews. In the end, the Jewish nations will realize that Jesus wasn't just a teacher but the Promised one. Now when we accept the salvation that was given to the Jews first then to us, we become Gods chosen too.

A common belief among most Christian theologians is that the Jewish people are still covered under the Old Covenant, and that Gentiles (non-jews) are covered under the New Covenant in Jesus Christ. I know there are Christians who believe that Jews are not saved because they reject Jesus, but in my experience this is a minority view among Christians.

We have such a loving and forgiving God, that even though the Jews broke the covenant, God is keeping his side of the contract (according to this interpretation). There is much in Scripture, both Old and New Testaments, to support that view.

To djness: I agree with you that the modern nation of Israel is not a Christian state -- they are a Jewish state. Apart from having a faith that rejects Jesus as the Messiah, can you name any specific policies which the modern Israeli nation holds that are not just non-Christian but specifically anti-Christian? Do they not have policies that are also mesh with a Christian ideology? I would think that, since their Scripture is also considered Scripture by Christians, that any nation that is considered Jewish would have to have at least some policies that would be in line with Christian values. Can you (or anyone else) name some of these policies?

Or do you feel that the modern nation of Israel has only embraced those aspects of the Old Testament that have been completed or fulfilled by the New, and therefore are no longer valid under Jesus Christ?

To iamachildofgod: I totally agree with what you said. Just two tiny little grammatical points: "Jews" should be capitalized, just as you would capitalize "Americans." Also, you said, "The jews is..." and it should be "The Jews are," since they are plural. (Sorry, I'm a teacher, and I just can't take the grading hat off. You can take the help or leave it, your choice. I know I've made spelling errors in this forum before, too, so I'm far from perfect. Good thing we're saved by grace and not by right grammar!)

This is all very fascinating to me, and I appreciate the discussion.
 
Have you heard christians reffered to as the bride of christ. Israel is the nation after gods own heart. This may lead to other? S about the trintity and such because there is one god. We belong to jesus, jews belong to the father. This could be a huge teaching more than what this forum can provide but like it our not without the jew providing a holy line for our savior to come from, gentiles may not have been grafted in. Notice I said grafted. Look up meaning of grafted. You can cut a branch from an olive tree and draft it into the root system and in time it will produce another tree out of that rootless branch. There are twelve tribes of israel. Jesus is from tribe of judah. Without the jews being set apart to god, christians (gentiles) may have never had the chance to know the one true god. The jews have the torah which is the first 5 books of the bible. Do you read and belive and put faith into the story of adam and eve, noah, moses and abraham. These are jewish writings yet in our christian bible. Jewish writings start the bible. If you don't agree with an individual jews beliefs, agree to disagree. But to say why honor israel, its our heavenly fathers wish. Israel is our holy land as well. The first christians came from there. I have found by looking at the bible from hebraic (jewish) perspective, I have gained a better understanding of gods word and closer to god. That's the goal of christians and jews alike, getting closer to god. True we have many differences but the same common goal. I hope that helps answer the above question a little bit.

Well said. All I can add is, "Amen!"
 
Back to politics and about obama. Did you know barak means lightening in hebrew and muhammads (muslim profit) horse was named barak. He did bring change. Our first black president. I wander if the next president will be a woman. Women have a more nurturing nature and more apt to want peace. The 7 year peace treaty will start the tribulation. I bet a woman president would likely support a peace treaty not knowing what the bible says it will lead to. I wander also if obama will join the united nations after his term here. The nations have seemed to embrace him above any other president we have had. It will be interesting to see what changes and prophetic events will unfold this new year.
 
Back to politics and about obama. Did you know barak means lightening in hebrew and muhammads (muslim profit) horse was named barak. He did bring change. Our first black president. I wander if the next president will be a woman. Women have a more nurturing nature and more apt to want peace. The 7 year peace treaty will start the tribulation. I bet a woman president would likely support a peace treaty not knowing what the bible says it will lead to. I wander also if obama will join the united nations after his term here. The nations have seemed to embrace him above any other president we have had. It will be interesting to see what changes and prophetic events will unfold this new year.

"Barak" in Hebrew actually means "to bless," with one possible side meaning being "to kneel." Some web research reveals that this also seems to be its meaning in Arabic and Swahili, however these same sources claim the Hebrew word means "lightening," "lightning," or "thunder," all of which are absolutely false, I can tell you with 100% certainty, as I have taken 2+ years of Biblical Hebrew, and Barak is one of the more common words in the Bible, as you might imagine.

All of which goes to show that you can't believe anything you read on the internet, including this. Double-check EVERYTHING! I mean, I know I am relatively authoritative on the topic, but for all y'all know, I could be an idiot who doesn't know "Shalom" from "Mir" (little language pun there).

To respond to the rest of your post: Did Barak bring change? Some, yes, but not as much as I was hoping. He was far too much of a Bush-ite for my tastes. Considering his whole campaign was all about "change," the number of Bush policies he maintained has been disappointing. Where he has changed what Bush did, he has been good. Where he has simply continued the same old same old, it has not been so good. Which goes to show: change IS good. We need more of it!

Now, as far as women being more peaceful, I think I agree with you in general, but I know some very militant women, and some very peace-loving men. I don't think we can assume that any female elected to the office of PUSA would necessarily lead in the tribulation. Though it is food for thought. The only female running right now is Michelle Bachman, and I don't think she would sign a peace treaty. I really don't like her policies. She is completely insane, from what I have heard her say, and I'm not sure she's the kind of person I want as our commander in chief. Then again, I wouldn't want Hillary Clinton, either, or Sarah Palin. Michelle Obama wouldn't be so bad. I don't think she's qualified, though. Maybe Anne Richards, but she's completely disappeared from the political scene. Is she even still alive?

Finally, I agree with you, the rest of the world seems to like Obama. I think he's been the most popular president internationally since Kennedy. I don't think he deserved the Nobel Peace Prize, especially now, looking at it in hindsight. He's been far too bloodthirsty. I bet the Nobel committee wishes they could take it back.

But again: let's look at policies, not people. What policies, specifically, do we, as Christians, support? Israel is one that has been discussed: at least not supporting Israel's enemies, if not going so far as providing military support for Israel. Other policies?
 
Jesus taught to meet the needs of others, BUT...he also taught that "it rains on the just and the unjust", "The poor you have with you always, but you will not have me with you always".....Paul, in the Epistles, taught that "if a man shall not work, neither will he eat"......he was addressing the church at the time. If we accept that Paul's position as Apostle was legal, we have to accept that he was speaking for Christ......What do you think?
 
Jesus taught to meet the needs of others, BUT...he also taught that "it rains on the just and the unjust", "The poor you have with you always, but you will not have me with you always".....Paul, in the Epistles, taught that "if a man shall not work, neither will he eat"......he was addressing the church at the time. If we accept that Paul's position as Apostle was legal, we have to accept that he was speaking for Christ......What do you think?

First of all, thank you so much for your input. LOVE IT!

Secondly, can you provide scripture references for your verses above? Book, chapter, verses? I like to see the context of Scripture.

Finally, let's look at each one in turn.

#1. "It rains on the just and the unjust alike." Very true. I wonder what political issue that favors? Is that favoring a position that's lenient on crime? Being found guilty should not necessarily carry a long prison sentence? Or were you going somewhere else with that? Let's explore that some more.

#2. "The poor you have with you always, but you will not have me with you always." I like this one. Especially recognizing its context. Do you know its context? Mary had opened a bottle of expensive oil and was washing Jesus' feet with her tears, drying them with her hair, and anointing them with this expensive oil. Judas, who was already planning to betray Jesus, complained, not because what Mary was doing was particularly shocking or inappropriate (which it was), but because it was wasteful of resources. He said the oil could have been sold and the money used to give to the poor. Jesus knew that Judas had no interest in the poor. Jesus didn't say what he did because of the poor. He said it as an object lesson to Judas, and to others around him, about what was going to happen. I'm not sure we can use this verse as a political value, because it was a specific sentence used in a specific situation.

But even if we do take it as a statement that also transcends its immediate use, what does that mean? Does that mean we shouldn't give to the poor? That we should always chose to throw lavish gifts at Jesus rather than giving to the poor? We should spend thousands on making fancy churches instead of giving to the poor? Do you really think that's what Jesus wants? One could certainly make an argument for that. And if one were to look at some of the churches around the world, one could say many institutions have done that. Is this a Biblical Value?

#3 "if a man shall not work, neither will he eat" I have no problem taking Paul's word as authoritative, perhaps not quite as authoritative as Jesus', but close to it. And I have no problem taking this particular verse as authoritative.

Again, let's look at the context. Paul was responding to a question about people in the church who were lazy. They were able to work, but thought that they were "above" manual labor. I happen to agree with Paul. (LOL ... like my personal opinion counts for squat ....) I think retired CEO's who are making multi-billion dollar pensions for sitting on their butt all day is a sin.

Cutting capital gains tax is absolutely a direct contradiction to this Biblical Value. Technically, if one were to follow this biblical value, capital gains and all other forms of unearned income should be taxed at a rate of 100%. I'm not sure I'm willing to go that far, but I certainly have no problem saying that unearned income should be taxed at a higher rate than earned income. To my knowledge, all the republican candidates are in favor of LOWERING taxes on capital gains and other forms of unearned income. The democrats in congress want to raise it, so that those who do not work for their money have to pay a higher share of taxes, and those who do work pay less in taxes. In other words, the republican candidates are less in line with this particular Biblical Value than the democrats. At least on this one issue.

On the other hand, Paul would never have said that a person who was incapable of working should be denied basic services. Paul and Jesus both performed miracles to heal the sick, and reached out to the poor. We know they loved the marginalized in society. They absolutely would have been in favor of giving food and other basic needs to those who were in need. How does that play out today? Which social programs today are most beneficial to the needy? And which of the political parties are supporting those programs?

So far, we've identified two issues based on Biblical values: taxing unearned income and supporting Israel. Currently, both major parties support Israel, but only one supports taxing unearned income at a higher rate, as Paul advocated. So we have:
Republicans: 1; Democrats: 2.
Interesting. More issues?
 
I don't think the issue of Christ's teaching was "either/or".......what he was saying is that we are not to abdicate spiritual healing in deference to meeting physical needs. What he was saying, in essence, is that despite our efforts to the contrary, poverty will always be with us. Still, we are to do whatever we can to alleviate the misery of those around us. After all, he DID provide bread and fishes to the 5,000, not New Testaments...:)

I think the same issue applies to the other verses. Fundamentally, to reduce the focus of the Gospel to an economic argument is to play into the hands of humanists and others who feel that the ultimate answer to man's problems is the wisdom and creativity of man. Repentance was, and is, the primary message of Christ's ministry. He healed, he raised from the dead....but above all, he brought conviction for sin, which is, after all, the most pervasive and public afteraffect of Eden's fall.

In my 23 years of pastoral ministry, I have often faced pressure to either do more or less "social ministry". But, the truth is that both are necessary. I preach a message of salvation, but...it's very tough to think of the need for repentance when one is hungry, cold or strung out on booze or drugs. I don't think the debate between "soul healing" and "body healing" will ever be settled permanently. The fact is, both have to be taken care of.

Quickly, let me address Israel......a sticky issue, for sure. But, here's my take on it. I think we make a basic Biblical mistake when we consider the "people of Israel" the same as the state of Israel. Even the New Testament said that not all who are Israel are "true Israel". I don't think God "blesses" parcels of land. Even America, the most blessed nation ever to exist, is entering what I consider an extended period of judgement. In the case of Israel, the sticky part of the issue is that the original promise to Abraham was made to a combination of tribes. But, it involved giving them a specific parcel of land in which to establish the nation of Israel. So, I think it is proper for America to stand beside Israel when they are threatened.

I've enjoyed this exchange and hope to talk with you again soon.....take care..
 
I've enjoyed this exchange and hope to talk with you again soon.....take care..

As have I. I totally agree with everything you've said. As Christians, we are absolutely called to preach to people's souls as well as to heal the bodies.

And you've raised some great points about Israel. I think that applies to all nations, not just Israel. I like the idea of supporting people without regards to the parcels of land they inhabit.

May God continue to bless you with continued wisdom.