DEPRAVITY OF MAN

[Red33]

Red

Have I told you how much I love and appreciate you today?

We don't always agree on everything but an understanding of "the justification that God gives sinners by faith through His mercy and grace" is key and wonderful Gospel News that everyone should be proclaiming

Anyway catch you on another thread

It is so good for my heart to hear you say those words of love and appreciation. The scripture says to greet one another with a holy kiss (Rom 16:16, 1Cor 16:20, 2Cor 13:12, 1Thes 5:16) and you have demonstrated that with kind affections.

 

[serpentslayer]

Of equal equal importance are the doctrines of regeneration by the Holy Spirit,
Sanctification by the Holy Spirit, and Baptism of the Holy Spirit: all of which Jesus
made possible by His Perfect Atoning Death and Ressurrection.


Peace Brother.

 

[Forest]

Of equal equal importance are the doctrines of regeneration by the Holy Spirit,
Sanctification by the Holy Spirit, and Baptism of the Holy Spirit: all of which Jesus
made possible by His Perfect Atoning Death and Ressurrection.


Peace Brother.

By his death Jesus made them a reality, not a possiability.

 

[Forest]

Forest,

When was this man (the publican) justified? Remember, Jesus was speaking this before the cross.

Lk 18:10-14

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Titus 3:3-7

3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Does this point to the believer's justification or are you going to concoct some other explanation for what you believe?

When Christ died for the sins of God's elect his work on the cross covered every one of God's elect from Adam to the last one of the elect that will be born into this world.

 

[Forest]

I asked you a simple question about when the publican was justified and you were not honest in your answer. You do not have an honest heart nor are you honest about the scriptures. You ad to the what the scripture testify about justification by faith. This was an example that every believer can identify with and you come up with an explanation that it was not eternal justification that Christ was referring to with this publican. You have no idea the kind of justification that God gives sinners by faith through His mercy and grace. You use this dumb excuse to justify your own understanding by discrediting others of not harmonizing the scriptures. Justification is the greatest doctrine of our faith and never should we lead others astray with such a false understanding. You need to reconsider and examine yourself and see if you are grounded in the faith of the Son of God as you claim to be.

So then, do you think that Gal 2:16 says it is man's faith that justifies him or is it Christ's faith that justifies us? If you misinterpret this scripture to say that is man's faith that justifies himself, it will not harmonise with other scriptures.

 

[Red33]

All scriptures must harmonise with each other before you can understand the truth. All salvation scriptures are not talking about eternal salvation, and all scriptures talking about justification are not talking about eternal justification. In Rom 4:2 it says that Abraham was justified by his works when he offered Isaac. We know that eternal salvation is not by the works of man, and all justifications are not eternal justifications. We are to rightly divide the scriptures to harmonise with each other.

Didn't you know that God justifies the ungodly (Rom 4:5) and that is whom we believe upon and when we do our faith is counted for righteousness. God does not impute sin to the ungodly and the scriptures say so in (2Cor 5:19)...

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The world here is not speaking of the believer or God's elect, it is speaking of all men that make up the world (kosmos) - the inhabitants of the earth from Adam. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself by not imputing their trespasses unto them so that they could be justified the moment they believe with their faith in the one that paid for their sin through the shedding of His own blood. This doctrine of justification through the blood and grace of God is precious and you are twisting it to fit into your personal convictions which are not right.

We are justified and made righteous by grace through the washing of regeneration and the new birth. Anything else that is added to that is works and can not be reckoned by grace but of debt. Justification means that when I believe I am made righteous by grace and I owe nothing, no debt. When we believe, God puts righteousness on our account and not debt. Those that have been redeemed have no debt because they have been bought back with the purchase price of the blood that has removed all sin. You can't get any more redeemed than being purchased and justified by the blood of Christ. Anything we do other then to simply believe in the finished work of Christ involves a system of works with no grace and God rejects every bit of it no matter how good it is, even if it seems right in our own eyes.

This is the harmony of grace... Christ removes all sin through His death, burial and resurrection, we believe that by faith, and God makes us righteous through justification and it's all done by mercy and grace instantly when we believe. Who is going to separate us from love of God that has provided this kind of justification through His Son for sinful man.

 

[Forest]

Didn't you know that God justifies the ungodly (Rom 4:5) and that is whom we believe upon and when we do our faith is counted for righteousness. God does not impute sin to the ungodly and the scriptures say so in (2Cor 5:19)...

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The world here is not speaking of the believer or God's elect, it is speaking of all men that make up the world (kosmos) - the inhabitants of the earth from Adam. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself by not imputing their trespasses unto them so that they could be justified the moment they believe with their faith in the one that paid for their sin through the shedding of His own blood. This doctrine of justification through the blood and grace of God is precious and you are twisting it to fit into your personal convictions which are not right.

We are justified and made righteous by grace through the washing of regeneration and the new birth. Anything else that is added to that is works and can not be reckoned by grace but of debt. Justification means that when I believe I am made righteous by grace and I owe nothing, no debt. When we believe, God puts righteousness on our account and not debt. Those that have been redeemed have no debt because they have been bought back with the purchase price of the blood that has removed all sin. You can't get any more redeemed than being purchased and justified by the blood of Christ. Anything we do other then to simply believe in the finished work of Christ involves a system of works with no grace and God rejects every bit of it no matter how good it is, even if it seems right in our own eyes.

This is the harmony of grace... Christ removes all sin through His death, burial and resurrection, we believe that by faith, and God makes us righteous through justification and it's all done by mercy and grace instantly when we believe. Who is going to separate us from love of God that has provided this kind of justification through His Son for sinful man.

The false belief that Christ's blood upon the cross is not effective until we believe is disgrassing Christ in the fact that man has to have a part in obtaining eternal life instead of giving God praise and honour and honouring themselves. Christ's work on the cross was 100% effective in giving eternal life, justification, redeemption by washing all of the sins away of those that he died for and not forall mankind John 6:37-41.

 

[Forest]

Didn't you know that God justifies the ungodly (Rom 4:5) and that is whom we believe upon and when we do our faith is counted for righteousness. God does not impute sin to the ungodly and the scriptures say so in (2Cor 5:19)...

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The world here is not speaking of the believer or God's elect, it is speaking of all men that make up the world (kosmos) - the inhabitants of the earth from Adam. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself by not imputing their trespasses unto them so that they could be justified the moment they believe with their faith in the one that paid for their sin through the shedding of His own blood. This doctrine of justification through the blood and grace of God is precious and you are twisting it to fit into your personal convictions which are not right.

We are justified and made righteous by grace through the washing of regeneration and the new birth. Anything else that is added to that is works and can not be reckoned by grace but of debt. Justification means that when I believe I am made righteous by grace and I owe nothing, no debt. When we believe, God puts righteousness on our account and not debt. Those that have been redeemed have no debt because they have been bought back with the purchase price of the blood that has removed all sin. You can't get any more redeemed than being purchased and justified by the blood of Christ. Anything we do other then to simply believe in the finished work of Christ involves a system of works with no grace and God rejects every bit of it no matter how good it is, even if it seems right in our own eyes.

This is the harmony of grace... Christ removes all sin through His death, burial and resurrection, we believe that by faith, and God makes us righteous through justification and it's all done by mercy and grace instantly when we believe. Who is going to separate us from love of God that has provided this kind of justification through His Son for sinful man.

The "world" in 2 Cor 5:19 according to Thayer's Greek translation is 2889, 8) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort. a)a) used of believers only, John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19. Every thing nesesary for eternal salvation was accomplished on the cross, and became effective at that time.

 

[Red33]

The false belief that Christ's blood upon the cross is not effective until we believe is disgrassing Christ in the fact that man has to have a part in obtaining eternal life instead of giving God praise and honour and honouring themselves. Christ's work on the cross was 100% effective in giving eternal life, justification, redeemption by washing all of the sins away of those that he died for and not forall mankind John 6:37-41.

Any belief system concerning the blood of Christ that does not include the sins of every single ungodly human being, is a faith that is not of the written word, nor of Jesus Christ nor of the Holy Spirit and it limits Christ's sacrifice making the availability of His atonement limited. It conditions grace to only an elect few instead of those that humble themselves and believe, it confines the preaching of the gospel instead of being preached to every creature, it makes Christ and Him crucified a respecter of persons showing partiality which is evil, and it makes the Father inadequate to be able to provide redemption to every person that He has given life to in the womb. This absurd doctrine provides no conviction to preach the gospel in all the world and makes the believer passive and indifferent with the saving grace that he has received as an undeserving sinner. This is a fraudulent doctrine that denies every aspect of the cross of Christ and there is no fellowship with those that adhere to this understanding.

 

[Forest]

Forest,

When was this man (the publican) justified? Remember, Jesus was speaking this before the cross.

Lk 18:10-14

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Titus 3:3-7

3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Does this point to the believer's justification or are you going to concoct some other explanation for what you believe?

Justification for all those that Christ died for came at the time of his crucifiction and covered every person that he died for from Adam to the last one of God's elect that will be born into this world.

 

[Forest]

As expected you did not answer my questions to you at all (of course you can't bring any evidence for said "succession", QED). Instead you keep spamming the same thing. This gives that I will put you on ignore and stop replying to your posts as you are not keeping in line with sound and rational netiquette, seeing you actually do not discuss at all, repeatedly spamming same thing over and over.

I warned you several times not to keep spamming, but true to form you do not mind the posts of others, just keep spamming the same thing in thread after thread, often by oneliners. If I am not mistaken, your posts do not comply with the rules of this forum. Now it will be up to the moderators to discern whether the things you promote, and the way you have communicated them, are appropriate or not. Have a nice day!

Then report me to the moderators and lets get this cleared up. I am of the understanding that this forum is for defending what we believe to be the doctrine of Christ, is it not?

 

[tribesman]

Then report me to the moderators and lets get this cleared up. I am of the understanding that this forum is for defending what we believe to be the doctrine of Christ, is it not?

I have no intention to report you, but I'd guess the moderators will check the threads now and then and will clear up any discrepancies. However I found it quiet meaningless to respond to repeated quotes of Gal.2:16, while you on several occasions did not respond to my inputs. Nevertheless I have taken you off ignore and might respond to serious posts that you make. But there should be no repeating, for the sake of the readers. if anything.