Would You Say, 'yes?' Is your faith strong enough to say 'YES!'

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Would you say 'yes' if professing your faith means you will likely die?

  • Yes

    Votes: 19 90.5%

  • No

    Votes: 2 9.5%
  • Total voters
    21
Jullianna said:
There is something I want to share here and I would imagine that other christians who have knocked at death's door a time or two (or in my case 4-5) can tell you the same, when the time comes that you feel you may be facing the last moment of your life, there is an OVERWHELMING peace and godly presence that comes upon you. It's indescribable. If God asks your life of you for His Name and His glory, you will be able to lay it down because He will HELP you do it. Fear not.
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Yes, julieannie, I am thinking there is slot more to your above said words that remain unsaid. Being in your field, surely you've seen many things, maybe experienced things yourself too (tracking a armed and dangerous suspect, etc.) .

Ahhh, the blood of Christ. Thank God, it protects you from ALL, julieannie, so does He. God is so great. I. Everything we do, THANK GOD . :)
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OH, that is who, vkat. Yes, i never heard anything about her or would have said something. A quick silence for all the victims.




Gone but not forgotten. With Bernall's story, right or wrong if she or Schnuur actuakly said 'yes' to Klebold's question, 'do you believe in God,' the script was written and many I am certain became to believe in God from Columbine.
 
Not meaning to rain on anyones parade, but were either of these deaths truly a martyr's death? I mean the killers were killing indiscriminately.
 
violakat said:
I'm not Chiclette, but I'll answer.
She was the first victim of the Columbine attacks.
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I'm curious as to why only the Columbine attack has been remembered, as the one of Christian Martyrdom in the US. Around the same time as the Columbine attacks, there were Churches were gunmen came in and shot people. One I remember the most was the one in Fort Worth, TX. And that's because I lived in a nearby city. But I remember there were other incidents of church shootings, and also of kids being shot at in schools.
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I don't know. This was the biggest story, vkat, and the killers' story made for very good bad news, as thousands were planed killed and only 13 died, Bernall and Schnuur stories.

SantoSubito said:
Not meaning to rain on anyones parade, but were either of these deaths truly a martyr's death? I mean the killers were killing indiscriminately.
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Yes, the killers killed indiscriminately too, spraying gunfire, but ALSO the killing of Cassie Bernall, whether she was killed for saying 'Yes' to believing in God is immaterial as she WAS outloud giving others understanding she was Christian (praying or answering question, eyewitness accounts confirm).

This was not just indiscriminate killings, Santo,

Case in point: in THAT same library where Bernall was shot and killed by Klebold so was valerie Schnuur spared AFTER eyewitnesses confirm Schnuur WAS asked if she believed in God by Klebold.

And.... it would have taken less than a second then for Klebold to have pulled the trigger on Schnuur, and, keep in mind she was already victim of the killers' sporadic gunfire (15 bullets in her), but he did not pull it.
Say what you will but I truly believe that God intervened, much like the 911 terrorists on sept. 11,2001, were headed with 4th plane to supposedly take out people in the White House, including the president. God just shows up in a time of great need but alzó I truly believe God used Schnuur surely to tell of His glory by her living for TELLING 'Yes,' to Klebold.

Remember, too, that Klebold, it was learned after the shooting of Bernall and this horrible tragedy was just shot while praying so, to me, this says that Klebold was cowardly in shooting Bernall but when someone said 'Yes' to believing in the name of God after Klebold asked them... they were SAVED !! :)
 
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SantoSubito said:
I'm not saying God didn't intervene, but whether we can say she was killed specifically for believing in God is a more complicated issue.
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Yes, Santos, we will never know that but the fact that Klebold questioned Schnuur about believing in God lends support to Klebold's actions or non-actions, in this case, which I believe were from God's power saving Schnuur because of her exclaimed faith. And, now speaking of Bernall, whom Klebold killed before going over to Schnuur's area of the Columbine library... why would Klebold kill a Bernall in the middle of her praying outloud to God by saying 'peekaboo,' as eyewitness accounts confirm?

No, we truly will never know a lot of things that happen in our life until we get to Heaven, and there everything good we yearn to know will become truth from our Saviour who is The Truth. :)
 
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GreenNnice said:
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Yes, Santos, we will never know that but the fact that Klebold questioned Schnuur about believing in God lends support to Klebold's actions or non-actions, in this case, which I believe were from God's power saving Schnuur because of her exclaimed faith. And, now speaking of Bernall, whom Klebold killed before going over to Schnuur's area of the Columbine library... why would Klebold kill a Bernall in the middle of her praying outloud to God by saying 'peekaboo,' as eyewitness accounts confirm?

No, we truly will never know a lot of things that happen in our life until we get to Heaven, and there everything good we yearn to know will become truth from our Saviour who is The Truth. :)
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Honestly I can think of quite a few reasons why he would say "peekaboo" and kill her. It could be he just found it humorous to do so (they were pretty demented). I just can't help but think this way since the Catholic Church applies pretty rigid standards to determine if someone was martyred. Because Martyrdom is the fastest track to Sainthood.
 
Jullianna said:
There is only one track to sainthood -----> Jesus
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Well yes. That is why Martyrdom puts you on the fast track to Sainthood, because you paid the ultimate price for your faith, you died for it. That is the ultimate expression of trust in Providence.
 
Impressionable young christians may misunderstand and think the only way to become a saint of God is to die for their faith. This is a thread about dying for our testimony not a theological debate of your denomination's tenants of faith. It would be a shame to derail such an awesome thread in such a way.

But, if you have scripture to support such a claim, it would be cool to read about it in an applicable thread.
 
Historical and scriptural records indicate that at least 7 of the Apostles were martyred.

My only point is that we need to be careful, lest we lead young believers to misunderstand that we can become saints of God through our own sacrifice rather than the sacrifice of Christ. There are no fast tracks or slow tracks. There is only Christ and most saints of God are not presently called to martyrdom. The way the world is going, that may change..
 
SantoSubito said:
Well yes. That is why Martyrdom puts you on the fast track to Sainthood, because you paid the ultimate price for your faith, you died for it. That is the ultimate expression of trust in Providence.
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Because Schnuur did not die when she said 'yes' to Klebold's 'Do you believe in God,' does that mean she is not a martyr?

And, to me, the real story of Bernall, having been praying outloud when Klebold came up and shot her under a table tells me that she was not a martyr, she was praying to God to get her out of the situation, ' Lord. what is this that is happening?' is, more or less, what Bernall said under the table before Klebold said 'peekaboo' and shot her.


Jullianna said:
Impressionable young christians may misunderstand and think the only way to become a saint of God is to die for their faith. This is a thread about dying for our testimony not a theological debate of your denomination's tenants of faith. It would be a shame to derail such an awesome thread in such a way.

But, if you have scripture to support such a claim, it would be cool to read about it in an applicable thread.
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Yes. ^

zeroturbulence said:
Some of the apostles willingly accepted their execution for their belief in Christ.
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The apostles were martyrs.
 
SantoSubito said:
Honestly I can think of quite a few reasons why he would say "peekaboo" and kill her. It could be he just found it humorous to do so (they were pretty demented). I just can't help but think this way since the Catholic Church applies pretty rigid standards to determine if someone was martyred. Because Martyrdom is the fastest track to Sainthood.
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I can think of reasons too but the facts belie the reasoning. Bernal was praying outloud and Klebold specifically went back to the corner of the library where she was under a table and shot her. She was a christian, I think we can both agree that Bernal was a christian.

Then, after that'Bernall' sequence, Klebold went over to Schnuur and specifically asked her, 'Do you believe in God?' ,. That tells me that Klebold had a little agenda, and, why God allowed Klebold to shoot the praying Bernall but PUT His shield of protection in front of Schnuur I don't know.

It is like 911, why did God allow so many people to die. I look at that whole situation very parallel to Columbine. It was said that a lot more people could have died in Twin Towers collapse but many escaped down the stairs or were not at work yet when the attacks took place. Another few minutes later than think it was like 8:48 am eastern time that the planes struck the Twin Towers and instead of 1500 people dying it would have been more like 2500 dying.

God just does what he does and I believe that the strength of Christians' prayer , too, not just in USA but around the world after the 911 horror was critical too and I just think a lot worse could have happened with 911 than did but God saw something in us, our hearts, like what the Grinch saw AFTER he stole all the toys of the Whoville people. He EXPECTED them to be crying from NO TOYS and instead they were singing songs, christian songs too, I think they were, but, anyway, God moves quickly, with Godspeed, when he sees that something happening should stop.
Schnuur's act of professing her faith of God HELPED Columbine horror be different than what it could have been, I truly believe that now that I have read this story.

Who knows, too.

The bomb was supposed to go off in the library, dropping the library onto the cafeteria and killing everyone eating lunch, and, in a 2000+ high school that would be a lot of carnage. but maybe Bernall too , by praying to God in that library, helped that bomb not go off.

Sure, I am reaching, but I BELIEVE in the almighty power of God ! :)
 
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WELL SORT OF BUT ITS THE STRONGEST FOR THINGS THAT I REALLY CARE ABOUT LIKE FOR EXAMPLE: I HAVE FAITH THAT MY DAD IS GOING TO GET

ME

TICKETS TO SEE BIG TIME RUSH THEN ITS REALLY STRONG FAITH BUT IF I SAY SOMETHING LIKE: I HAVE FAITH THAT I AM GOING TO GET THE FIRST

FRONT

ROW MOVIE SEATS BUT END UP SITTING WAY IN THE BACK WHERE I CAN BARELY SEE THE MOVIE SCREEN THEN MY FAITH MIGHT GET KIND OF WEAK IF

ITS

SOMETHING OF GREAT INTEREST TO ME I HAVE STRONG FAITH IF NOT OF INTEREST TO ME THEN I HAVE WEAK FAITH SO WHEN IT

DOESN'T INTEREST ME YES THEN MY FAITH GETS KINDA WEAK.
 
Rather than saying yes or no, I just pray that my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ and myself will keep the faith under such persecution.
 
NO I LOVE LIVING JUST BREATHING GOING TO WATER WORLD BEING AROUND MY FAMILY WHILE I KNOW THEM N THEY KNOW ME MY MOM TOLD ME THE

BIBLE SAYS IN HEAVEN WE WONT EVEN REMEMBER EACH OTHER I WONT EVEN KNOW MY OWN MOTHER SO I WONT TO STAY ALIVE AS LONG AS I CAN

N DIE WHEN I CANT HELP IT I JUST STOLE THAT LINE FROM MY MOM SHE ALWAYS SAY GIRL YOU BETTER LIVE AS LONG AS YOU CAN N DIE WHEN YOU

CANT HELP IT WHEN I TALK ABOUT SUICIDE BUT I JUST BE TEASING WITH HER I LOVE SAYING HEY MOM HOW

ARE YOU DOING? THEN GOING TO HUG MY SISTERS AS THEY HUG ME BACK MY MOM TOLD ME NON OF THAT WILL BE IN HEAVEN JUST SITTING AROUND ON

CLOUDS PRAISING JESUS ALL DAY IS ALL WILL BE THERE GOLD N MILK N HONEY SO ID LIKE TO STAY ALIVE N ENJOY MY LIFE HERE ON EARTH FULLY ALIVE.
 
Jullianna said:
Impressionable young christians may misunderstand and think the only way to become a saint of God is to die for their faith. This is a thread about dying for our testimony not a theological debate of your denomination's tenants of faith. It would be a shame to derail such an awesome thread in such a way.

But, if you have scripture to support such a claim, it would be cool to read about it in an applicable thread.
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It's not the only way to Sainthood. But it is the ultimate expression of faith and love of God, as Jesus says in John 15:13: "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."

Which is illuminated further in I John 3:16a:

"Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us"

Jesus laid down his life for us, Martyrdom is that in reverse. But how we get to heaven doesn't matter, all that matters is that we get there. Because in heaven all share the same table whether they be theologians, martyrs, poor, or rich.

Also this really isn't a theological debate about the tenants of faith of any denomination. I think we can all agree that dying for the faith is the ultimate sacrifice one can give
 
SantoSubito said:
Also this really isn't a theological debate about the tenants of faith of any denomination. I think we can all agree that dying for the faith is the ultimate sacrifice one can give
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Whether or not sainthood is something earned is clearly a theological debate. Unless I have an awful intuitive grasp of Catholic doctrine, it is believed that Sainthood is something earned. Not so in Protestant/Evangelical circles.
 
See_KING_Truth said:
Rather than saying yes or no, I just pray that my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ and myself will keep the faith under such persecution.
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Excellent. Amen, SeekingMcVeggies. The Lord leads. I just WANT to be ready IF that kind of situation ever arose in my life, like we ALL would want to be who profess the Christian faith openly to friends and strangers.
But to profess it to a killer who ASKS 'Do You Believe In God,' while holding a gun in front of me aimed at ME, that belies all logical thought processes inside me. I would hope and pray I would say what God wanted me to say in that instance, I would RELY on His words to me. Who knows ! Maybe He would want me to say 'no,' the Lord leads. FOR CERTAIN, we will not be condemned for our answer, amen to that :)

Your saying 'yes' or 'no' is NOT a do-or-die thing, THAT is the important thing to keep in mind, God knows our heart and, in that kind of moment God will not hold that against us. That would be the Enemy attacking and, getting away with murder, so to speak. NO human should be put in that situation but WE will and some will say 'yes,' and some will say 'no'.

Bottom line: It does NOT matter what answer you give. God knows that we LOVE Him and that IF we don't' want to die and love this life then that belies our answer 'no' just fine. Important thing? DON'T JUDGE !!! :) God is verse-specific in scripture MANY TIMES about the harsh repercussions of judging others.

SantoSubito said:
It's not the only way to Sainthood. But it is the ultimate expression of faith and love of God, as Jesus says in John 15:13: "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."

Which is illuminated further in I John 3:16a:

"Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us"

Jesus laid down his life for us, Martyrdom is that in reverse. But how we get to heaven doesn't matter, all that matters is that we get there. Because in heaven all share the same table whether they be theologians, martyrs, poor, or rich.

Also this really isn't a theological debate about the tenants of faith of any denomination. I think we can all agree that dying for the faith is the ultimate sacrifice one can give
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OK. Good, Santos.

dominicanbeauty said:
NO I LOVE LIVING JUST BREATHING GOING TO WATER WORLD BEING AROUND MY FAMILY WHILE I KNOW THEM N THEY KNOW ME MY MOM TOLD ME THE

BIBLE SAYS IN HEAVEN WE WONT EVEN REMEMBER EACH OTHER I WONT EVEN KNOW MY OWN MOTHER SO I WONT TO STAY ALIVE AS LONG AS I CAN

N DIE WHEN I CANT HELP IT I JUST STOLE THAT LINE FROM MY MOM SHE ALWAYS SAY GIRL YOU BETTER LIVE AS LONG AS YOU CAN N DIE WHEN YOU

CANT HELP IT WHEN I TALK ABOUT SUICIDE BUT I JUST BE TEASING WITH HER I LOVE SAYING HEY MOM HOW

ARE YOU DOING? THEN GOING TO HUG MY SISTERS AS THEY HUG ME BACK MY MOM TOLD ME NON OF THAT WILL BE IN HEAVEN JUST SITTING AROUND ON

CLOUDS PRAISING JESUS ALL DAY IS ALL WILL BE THERE GOLD N MILK N HONEY SO ID LIKE TO STAY ALIVE N ENJOY MY LIFE HERE ON EARTH FULLY ALIVE.
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We have NO idea what Heaven will be like. Not sure where you get that we won't know our family in Heaven from the bible, as you say, Dom, but that's neither here nor there, Heaven will be beyond our comprehension and it will be soooooooo uncomprehendably good :)
 
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