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What does the Bible say about abortion you ask?
Abortion is not murder. A fetus is not considered a human life.
"If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life." Exodus 21:22-23
The Bible places no value on fetuses or infants less than one month old.
"And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver" Leviticus 27:6
Fetuses and infants less than one month old are not considered persons.
"Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD." Numbers 3:15-16
God sometimes approves of killing fetuses. (Any of the non-virgin women would have been killed along with their unborn fetuses.)
"And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him." Numbers 31:15-17
"Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts." Hosea 9:14
"Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb." Hosea 9:16
"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." Hosea 13:16
God sometimes kills newborn babies to punish their parents.
"Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die." 2 Samuel 12:14
God sometimes causes abortions by cursing unfaithful wives.
"The priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell. And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. ...
And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed." Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28
God's law sometimes requires the execution (by burning to death) of pregnant women.
"Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt." Genesis 38:24
Now I realize that some of these involve the death of pregnant women, and not the embryo/ fetus specifically. But if the mother dies, so does the embryo, and thus an "innocent" life. By your logic, this is just as bad, if not worst than abortion.
Abortion is not murder. A fetus is not considered a human life.
"If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life." Exodus 21:22-23
The Bible places no value on fetuses or infants less than one month old.
"And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver" Leviticus 27:6
Fetuses and infants less than one month old are not considered persons.
"Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD." Numbers 3:15-16
God sometimes approves of killing fetuses. (Any of the non-virgin women would have been killed along with their unborn fetuses.)
"And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him." Numbers 31:15-17
"Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts." Hosea 9:14
"Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb." Hosea 9:16
"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." Hosea 13:16
God sometimes kills newborn babies to punish their parents.
"Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die." 2 Samuel 12:14
God sometimes causes abortions by cursing unfaithful wives.
"The priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell. And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. ...
And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed." Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28
God's law sometimes requires the execution (by burning to death) of pregnant women.
"Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt." Genesis 38:24
Now I realize that some of these involve the death of pregnant women, and not the embryo/ fetus specifically. But if the mother dies, so does the embryo, and thus an "innocent" life. By your logic, this is just as bad, if not worst than abortion.
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V
Actually, the Bible does talk about how God knows even from the before we are born.
Psalm 139: 13-16 "13 For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother’s womb. 14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well. 15 My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. 16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them."
Psalm 119: 73 "Your hands have made me and fashioned me; Give me understanding, that I may learn Your commandments."
I'm trying to figure out where you are getting the idea of the woman being pregnant from this passage. And the only thing that I can figure out is the swollen belly. There are things, besides pregnancy, that can cause a woman's belly to swell. One being reactions to something. So, this does not prove your case that God causes abortion.
Psalm 139: 13-16 "13 For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother’s womb. 14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well. 15 My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. 16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them."
Psalm 119: 73 "Your hands have made me and fashioned me; Give me understanding, that I may learn Your commandments."
I'm trying to figure out where you are getting the idea of the woman being pregnant from this passage. And the only thing that I can figure out is the swollen belly. There are things, besides pregnancy, that can cause a woman's belly to swell. One being reactions to something. So, this does not prove your case that God causes abortion.
L
people should stop being lustful and think about the consequences of their actions and one of the ten comandments are that you should not kill that is a person from the time momy starts to puke. God plants those seeds no matter what religion it is that you may follow and he does not make mistakes or give you loads that you may not be able to bare it is the saten who puts those thaughts in our minds. I THANK GOD THAT HE SPOKE TO ME WHEN I WAS WORRIED ABOUT HOW WE WOULD PROVIDE AND I WANTED TO HAVE AN ABORTION JUST LAST YEAR AND I TURNED TO THE BIBLE I CLOSED IT AND PLACED MY HAND ON IT AND I STARTED PRAYING AND WHEN I OPEND IT AGAIN MY EYES FELL ON A CHAPTER THAT SAID TO ME *I AM GOD AND I WILL PROVIDE* I AM NOW 7 MONTHS PREGNANT AND AMAISINGLY JUST YESTERDAY MY HUSBAND GOD ANOTHER JOB SO FROM MONDAY HELL BE WORKING TWO JOBS
Well, the Hebrew translation(which is what the book was originally written in) for miscarriage or abortion is shachol. That is not even used in this passage.
The curse, swollen belly, fallen thigh and so on is believed to mean that she will not be able to become pregnant.
Since this passage has to do with a wife's faithfulness to her husband, and if she is guilty of adultery it is only natural to believe that the "curse" the water contained would be that she cannot have children.
The passage says later on if she is innocent then she will be able to bare a child.
BTW, the "belly" in this passage is in reference to internal organs. Sex organs to be exact.
Again, there is NOTHING in this passage that mentions a current pregnancy of the woman.
Y
If you look at Wikipedia's list of wars and other disasters by death toll, and suppose that a number between the two extremes is the correct number, than abortion has killed more human beings than any war, famine, plague, religious persecution, whatever, in history (except, of course, the flood of Noah, which wiped out nearly everyone). 50,000,000+ innocent lives have been taken in abortion. 50+ MILLION... That's more than Hitler killed!
Yet for those 50 million people, most people don't shed a tear. Most people say, people have their reasons, it's their choice, whatever. I actually got a post erased, and got banned and IP address blocked from a different site, just for stating that fact, nothing personal, no attacks on anyone. That's how eager people are to defend today, the butchery of the unborn. They're tiny, so it's ok in most people's minds. It's the choice of the woman, of the parents...
Go down the list of wars and genocides. Which one of the people or groups that perpetrated them didn't have what they thought were "good reasons" for killing a bunch of other people? Every single group or person who perpetrated those atrocities had excuses. They sincerely though they were in the right, doing the right thing, by killing the people they killed. Well, today people have their excuses, too, why they think this kind of murder is right. They have their reasons, too. Does having reasons make it right, though?
If you listen to the heartbeat, and you're listening to the womb of a woman, not a cow or a pig... that's a little human. People need to educate themselves on what doctors (and the mothers who pay them) feel themselves free to do, to wipe out that little human. It's beyond gross. It's not like they just push a button, and it just "goes away". Once you know what they really do, you will be beyond disgusted.
People today are afraid of confrontation, even if it's standing up about what's right. They say, "I don't believe in it, but someone else can." Even if it's murder?
God's laws apply to all men, whether or not they accept them. God didn't say, "I exempt these people, or those who don't believe, from these laws." That's why it is just for there to be a hell. Yes, men CAN (are able to) defy God... but there are consequences. Consequences God does not want to see us choose. That is why He came to save us, and to teach us the right way to go, to avoid that. He came to show us the way, but He IS God. We have a free will and can choose to disobey... but it's not optional in the sense that you can disobey and get away with it, otherwise where is justice for GOD? What about HIS rights? He creates a soul, has plans for that soul, means that soul to do something special in the world, and a woman and a doctor decide they don't want that soul to exist in this world, so they choose their will over His. Never mind that God willed it, by creating it.
We need to be conscious of God's rights. We will never have the "right" to do evil things. We are physically capable, yes. Is it fine? No. That's why we call them the ten commandments, and not the ten suggestions. Everyone, regardless of creed, or atheism, will be judged by the same laws. Yes mercifully... also justly. When we permit ourselves to envision God as the stereotypical pushover dad, who "loves" his kids so much he lets them get away with murder, and subsequently ruin their lives and other people's... we have lost the vision of the truth. God will not be mocked, and though He is loving and merciful, we can't just pick when and how to willfully defy Him, and expect that not to matter, and for there to be no consequences. That is an insult to the dignity of God as God and Our Father.
People talk about love.... where was love for those 50 million + babies? Where was their choice? People arbitrarily decided they shouldn't exist. Some of them would have been great. Maybe one of them would have cured AIDS, cancer, or done who knows what. God had plans for them, but people had other plans, and they felt they had the right to put a stop to those plans. But God's plans are plans of love. Who only knows what the absence of those 50+ million will deprive the world of, of God's goodness to us through them. That choice effects EVERYONE, not just the parents. The world is full of examples of very, very talented souls that the mothers were "advised" to abort them, or who almost did.
But people say, "I don't believe in it, but it's fine if other people do"?
I can't see it. God's law IS law. It's for everyone, and those souls were meant for the good of everyone. They didn't make it because someone didn't care what God wanted, or wanted to bless the world with. It's a loss in many ways, and I think we'd be fooling ourselves if we thought that God will just be fine with that, and not care. And if our world is such a mess, maybe it's in some part because we're feeling the hurt of the absence of what those 50 million had to offer the world as leaders, as politicians, as peacemakers, as people of talent, as family and friends. How anyone can think that all those lives and the impact they would have had, just doesn't matter, is beyond me. After all, there's a reason God wanted them to be here.
Yet for those 50 million people, most people don't shed a tear. Most people say, people have their reasons, it's their choice, whatever. I actually got a post erased, and got banned and IP address blocked from a different site, just for stating that fact, nothing personal, no attacks on anyone. That's how eager people are to defend today, the butchery of the unborn. They're tiny, so it's ok in most people's minds. It's the choice of the woman, of the parents...
Go down the list of wars and genocides. Which one of the people or groups that perpetrated them didn't have what they thought were "good reasons" for killing a bunch of other people? Every single group or person who perpetrated those atrocities had excuses. They sincerely though they were in the right, doing the right thing, by killing the people they killed. Well, today people have their excuses, too, why they think this kind of murder is right. They have their reasons, too. Does having reasons make it right, though?
If you listen to the heartbeat, and you're listening to the womb of a woman, not a cow or a pig... that's a little human. People need to educate themselves on what doctors (and the mothers who pay them) feel themselves free to do, to wipe out that little human. It's beyond gross. It's not like they just push a button, and it just "goes away". Once you know what they really do, you will be beyond disgusted.
People today are afraid of confrontation, even if it's standing up about what's right. They say, "I don't believe in it, but someone else can." Even if it's murder?
God's laws apply to all men, whether or not they accept them. God didn't say, "I exempt these people, or those who don't believe, from these laws." That's why it is just for there to be a hell. Yes, men CAN (are able to) defy God... but there are consequences. Consequences God does not want to see us choose. That is why He came to save us, and to teach us the right way to go, to avoid that. He came to show us the way, but He IS God. We have a free will and can choose to disobey... but it's not optional in the sense that you can disobey and get away with it, otherwise where is justice for GOD? What about HIS rights? He creates a soul, has plans for that soul, means that soul to do something special in the world, and a woman and a doctor decide they don't want that soul to exist in this world, so they choose their will over His. Never mind that God willed it, by creating it.
We need to be conscious of God's rights. We will never have the "right" to do evil things. We are physically capable, yes. Is it fine? No. That's why we call them the ten commandments, and not the ten suggestions. Everyone, regardless of creed, or atheism, will be judged by the same laws. Yes mercifully... also justly. When we permit ourselves to envision God as the stereotypical pushover dad, who "loves" his kids so much he lets them get away with murder, and subsequently ruin their lives and other people's... we have lost the vision of the truth. God will not be mocked, and though He is loving and merciful, we can't just pick when and how to willfully defy Him, and expect that not to matter, and for there to be no consequences. That is an insult to the dignity of God as God and Our Father.
People talk about love.... where was love for those 50 million + babies? Where was their choice? People arbitrarily decided they shouldn't exist. Some of them would have been great. Maybe one of them would have cured AIDS, cancer, or done who knows what. God had plans for them, but people had other plans, and they felt they had the right to put a stop to those plans. But God's plans are plans of love. Who only knows what the absence of those 50+ million will deprive the world of, of God's goodness to us through them. That choice effects EVERYONE, not just the parents. The world is full of examples of very, very talented souls that the mothers were "advised" to abort them, or who almost did.
But people say, "I don't believe in it, but it's fine if other people do"?
I can't see it. God's law IS law. It's for everyone, and those souls were meant for the good of everyone. They didn't make it because someone didn't care what God wanted, or wanted to bless the world with. It's a loss in many ways, and I think we'd be fooling ourselves if we thought that God will just be fine with that, and not care. And if our world is such a mess, maybe it's in some part because we're feeling the hurt of the absence of what those 50 million had to offer the world as leaders, as politicians, as peacemakers, as people of talent, as family and friends. How anyone can think that all those lives and the impact they would have had, just doesn't matter, is beyond me. After all, there's a reason God wanted them to be here.
Now consider this, there are many married couples, including Christian couples, in which one or both parents are infertile - that is, they lack the ability to conceive a child naturally. Fortunately for them, science has developed a method to help these couples have children and bring happiness into their lives. This method is called In-vitro fertilization. The way it works is gametes are extracted from both parties, and about a dozen embryos are produced. After the course of a few weeks, the healthiest of the bunch is inserted back into the female's Uterus. The rest are discarded. The procedure has a high success rate and has been a great boon for infertile couples.
If abortion is wrong, than IVF is nearly twelve times as bad (abortion kills one; IVF kills up to twelve. 1 X 12 = 12). Yet, the catholic church and Christian organization spend millions and millions of more dollars on anti-abortion propaganda than on anti-IVF propaganda. In addition, there is far less opposition of IVF among the average Christian community. Why is this?
If abortion is wrong, than IVF is nearly twelve times as bad (abortion kills one; IVF kills up to twelve. 1 X 12 = 12). Yet, the catholic church and Christian organization spend millions and millions of more dollars on anti-abortion propaganda than on anti-IVF propaganda. In addition, there is far less opposition of IVF among the average Christian community. Why is this?
V
Actually,not all IVF eggs are discarded (and yes, I think it's wrong to discard them as well, since it's still life.) Some are actually given for adoption to be used by other infertile couples. And in most cases, the IVF babies are not thrown away right away, like your comment above seems to insinuate. They are actually kept for years. Specifically, in case the parents wants more children.
V
I just naturally assumed people would realize that these were fertilized eggs, and not unfertile eggs. Since eggs that are not fertilized can not be stored. But your right, we probably should be a little more specific with what we say.
But Dogma, I'm glad you did bring this point up. In my mind, it's still a form of abortion. And really, until a few years ago, when there was a huge scandal surrounding Nadya Suleman, I never really thought about the embryos being thrown away. And personally, I think there should be more awareness created about adopting embryos, as well. Even though there may be no guarantee that the embryos will result in live babies, every opportunity should be given there.
And before anyone brings up the subject of adoption in foster care, about somewhere between 75-78% percent of the child in foster care are NOT available for adoption, or that was at least in 1999. And chances are, the statistics has not changed that much since then.
But Dogma, I'm glad you did bring this point up. In my mind, it's still a form of abortion. And really, until a few years ago, when there was a huge scandal surrounding Nadya Suleman, I never really thought about the embryos being thrown away. And personally, I think there should be more awareness created about adopting embryos, as well. Even though there may be no guarantee that the embryos will result in live babies, every opportunity should be given there.
And before anyone brings up the subject of adoption in foster care, about somewhere between 75-78% percent of the child in foster care are NOT available for adoption, or that was at least in 1999. And chances are, the statistics has not changed that much since then.
I am glad you are consistent with your beliefs, violakat. There are many Christians that claim to be against abortion, but are indifferent or for IVF. Like you said, I would like to see more funds being allocated to awareness for adopting embryos rather than just anti-IVF/ abortion propaganda. Actions speak louder than words, and I feel like affirmative action would be more effective in the campaign against the killing of embryos.
B
I'm prochoice. By that I mean I support your right to choose life. If you want a reminder on why I believe in choosing life look at your belly button. That scar should remind each one of us where we came from. A mother who loved us enough not to kill us. If you don't choose life then you choose to kill an innocent human being and that you can lable as simply a choice or you can specify by freely choosing to lable it murder. And people who murder should be punished. I think fines that go towards police and fire departments would be better than jail time that eats up tax payer dollars.
This is a very good point Saul. People will continue to seek abortions whether or not it is illegal.
Something very interesting to point out is that the amount of complications, injuries, and death in women seeking abortions were vastly decreased when it became legal. This is because instead of going to backstreet quacks, women could actually be treated by a medical professional.
I am personally against abortions in most cases as well. But people aren't perfect; unwanted pregnancies happen. One of the reasons why abortion rates are so high is because women feel that they would not be able to financially support a child if they were to actual birth it. Perhaps instead of spending MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of dollars ANNUALLY on anti-abortion propaganda across the world, Christian organizations can contribute to welfare funds, foster homes, and financial aid for mothers bearing children in poverty. Not only would this be more human; it will jointly decrease the amount of abortions taking place.
Something very interesting to point out is that the amount of complications, injuries, and death in women seeking abortions were vastly decreased when it became legal. This is because instead of going to backstreet quacks, women could actually be treated by a medical professional.
I am personally against abortions in most cases as well. But people aren't perfect; unwanted pregnancies happen. One of the reasons why abortion rates are so high is because women feel that they would not be able to financially support a child if they were to actual birth it. Perhaps instead of spending MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of dollars ANNUALLY on anti-abortion propaganda across the world, Christian organizations can contribute to welfare funds, foster homes, and financial aid for mothers bearing children in poverty. Not only would this be more human; it will jointly decrease the amount of abortions taking place.