Dating

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May 30, 2009
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#1
This is very long....so i'll post it in a series. I know most people are in a hurry these days.....but hey you may find it worth reading.....all of it.


I hesitate to write about the following topics do to the volatility in nature and so much material as well as opinions, already out there. Do to this very fact I believe a Biblical view should prevail. Biblical principles should prevail in all issues and events of the Christian life. Male and female relationships as well as relationships of parents and children, in every stage of human sociality, from childhood to adulthood, are no exception. However in so many cases, those who are dealing and participating in these issues don’t seek the mind of Christ, which is always based on His word. Or if they do, hesitate to the point of folly putting them into practice. Biblical principles should always prevail, not humanistic rules, legalism, traditions or measures. Matthew 15:1-7. God is very clear in His word regarding male female relationships, and sets forth principles and ethics to guide our behavior. That in no way suggests that there are no rules regarding these issues, but that God’s rules set forth as principles in His Word are the only true valid basis for guidance. This is written to Charismatic Spirit filled Christians who love God and are called according to His purpose. Romans 8:28 Just as with all things Biblical, the non-Spirit filled Christian will at best struggle with the content. This is not to discourage the non-spirit filled believer from gleaning from the principles set forth, but simply to serve as a warning label. Isaiah 8:13-15, Romans 9:32-33, 1 Peter 2:7-9. The emphasis or main purpose of this paper is to touch on the male female relationship dynamics created by God in view of His opinion on the matter. God intended the majority of the population to marry. This principle is set forth in His creation of man and women in Genesis. Some will rebel against this. See 1 Timothy 4:1-4. But God’s word still stands and His people should stand on His word. Romans 3:3-4. 1 Peter 1:22-25. The opinions of the author and sources will trickle down, therefore it is the responsibility of the reader to weigh everything in the light of God’s word and yield to the Holy Spirit for perfect guidance. The author and the sources sited strive to stay true to the Light of God’s word and His opinions. The reader should do the same. This is not to make rules but present biblical principles. Much of the material presented is given in full credit to Dr. Hobart E. Freeman who did a teaching on this very subject. The Bible teaches us to honor those who have gone before us. It was by sound recording that I the author was able to obtain the source message due to the fact that the source author is deceased. Much of the material is notes taken word for word as well as paraphrasing and expounding. Dr. Freeman never copyrighted his material but I wish to give credit where credit is due and offer these as notes to go along with his teachings as well as some of my own words to the wise.

To get the best out of this, one should know the word of God regarding the principles and promises set forth.


Parent Child relationships inside the Family.

The responsibility of parents to the children, in a Christian home, is to provide the security of a scripturally ordered home. A Biblical point of view is to prevail at all times. Husband is the head of the home, the wife is a loving helpmate and the children are in submission. The Bible is the final of all conduct in the home. It’s a home where every child has two parents, a mother and a father, who are both equally active in the loving discipline and training of the children. The mother and father are the sole source of all Spiritual and moral instruction and training. The majority of all morals and ethics are taught by the parents. Deuteronomy 31:12-13. Loving Correction and discipline are given based on the Bible. Proverbs 13:24, 23:13-14 and 29:15, 17. Their love is Biblical love. Love is corrective and the discipline is the expression that has to be done in love. Hebrews 12. Their method is to raise the children based on absorption. Molding them by training, discipline and example, not beating them into the shape they want or believing their children can do no wrong. Proverbs 22:15 and 19:18.

The Child’s responsibilities to the parents are to honor them and obey them. Exodus 20:12, Proverbs 6:20, Ephesians 6:1-3, Proverbs 1:8 with Romans 1:28-30 being an example of what can happen if you don’t. Another is to fear them. Leviticus 19:3. This is talking of a mature understanding of Godly fear. There are things that children should be afraid to say or do around their father or mother. Children need to submit to the discipline of the parents. Hebrews 12:9. Honoring parents extends to respect for elders. Leviticus 19:32 and 1 Peter 5:5. The older people should be of the reputation that draws and warrants respect. Children should care for parents. 1 Timothy 5:4, Mark 7:10-12.


“Question: What happens when parents aren’t saved (I’ll add “or saved not walking fully in the light of God’s word”) where obeying God rather then man comes in?”

“Answer: Principle of non-resistance (Matthew 5, 6, and 7) give total subjection and limited obedience. You’re to be totally subjected to your parents, to authorities, but limited obedience. So you obey your parents except where you would sin. So that is limited obedience but you’re totally subjected and then no doubt they will punish you, so you submit to the punishment. Sometimes you’re punished unjustly by your parents. Hebrews 12, but you still have to submit to the discipline. But you never submit to anyone where you would sin against your conscience or the word of God. If you do, you short circuit everything that morally and spiritually God is trying to show you or do through you. Once you disobey your conscience you never know anymore what you should do.”

Attitude toward parents: Love them in word and deed. Love and help them, saved or unsaved.
 
May 30, 2009
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#2
A Look at Dating

Most Christian American homes follow the example of the world in the customs of courtship and marriage. Most times the child is the one who runs the home. American’s mostly have child centered homes. Practices that have there origins in America are dating and “going steady” (getting serious about boy friend or girl friend, advancing beyond casual)
The dating game is encouraged by the parents for affirmation and confirmation that the child, he or she, will be able to marry. Great concern in the child and by the parents is “will I (or he/she) find anyone who will have me (them).” The more dates the child has, the more popular they feel and get a sense of security, that they can marry. Parents want their kids to be popular and not thought of as odd, so they promote it. Side affects of dating include social tyranny. If you don’t have a date for a social function such as a dance, you don’t go. The boy or girl goes through emotional anxiety and insecurity which drives them to get a boy friend or girl friend. In this way they can ensure social opportunities and acceptance. If you don’t date then you are different. Peer pressure prompts dating.
Dating fosters a subtle form of mutual exploitation. Boys try to exploit girls sexually and girls exploit boys financially.
Dating inspires variety and change in male female relationships. (This causes trouble later when marriage occurs in the fact that the permanency of marriage becomes boring for those who have “played the field” or the “dating game”.) Relationships run into problems, he or she just drops it and goes and gets a different boy or girl friend.
Dating has given young people the wrong attitude about money. The parents often give freely, money for taking some one out on the date. This doesn’t teach financial responsibility. Dating has promoted a high rate increase in illegitimate pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases. Dating complicates the relationship between parents and children. (I.e. putting daughter on the pill or “having the talk”) Teenagers are distracted between peer pressures and pressures from parents who try to keep them out of trouble.

Second stage of dating “going steady” or getting really serious about him/her is like marriage. It implies all the “perks” of marriage with no serious ties. It holds much of the same responsibilities of marriage like concern over finances, work locations, clothing, vacationing, et cetera. Dating in America is a matriarchal controlled system. It’s about getting the “man” ready for marriage. She controls the money as well as most every aspect of the relationship from where they eat to what he wears. With so much women influence on males from birth to adulthood, due to the institution of “momism” in America, the American male has become insecure. Unsure of himself he seeks security from a “mother” figure and finds it in a date. As the relationship progresses the more serious the mother child syndrome advances. This deals directly in the system of Ahab and Jezebel. Most men in America marry a mother figure. They are secure by letting the women or girl, control things. He is usually in that stage of transitioning from being mothered to independence of sorts and feels he needs a mother, which he finds that “mother” security in a serious girl friend. Often the control is back and forth. She will withhold “pleasures” or use some other vice and he will withhold money in desperate protest and so on. From the girl’s side or view on the date, she invariably thinks “this may be the one, this may be the marriage.”

Having a serious girlfriend or boyfriend is a mark of status social achievement. It’s a matter of pride. It’s a social announcement saying “look what I can do. I can make a conquest.” Its possessiveness of he’s mine or she’s mine. This can lead to jealousy; do to no serious real binding marriage contract. This can breed insecurity and problems that can carry over into a marriage. Going with some one long term before marriage promotes boredom inside a marriage. He or she no longer holds any mystery because you’ve already done your discovering out side of marriage. This can lead to problems and divorce. God ordained marriage not “trial” marriages or mini marriages, which dating brings.



Immature teen adolescent dating relationships hinder personality development.
It creates a blockage to healthy social relationships that help develop ones personality, due to the fact that he or she’s focus and attention is on that boy or girl in their life. These are unhealthy social distractions. It can be a serious cause of arrested development. It hinders important social networking, and friendships. Serious couples withdraw from others. This creates a problem for young adolescents who are still learning how to behave and act maturely in and toward the world around them. These “couples” tend to create their own little world and socially withdraw.(clicks) Premature relationships damage personalities and can lead to further problems resulting in hasty marriage which often results in the marriage failing. Not only does dating hinder mentally and socially, but the most expensive cost is spiritually. Time in spiritual growth is robbed, stunting spiritual maturity. In other areas is rushes maturity pushing the adolescent to be and do things above and beyond what God requires of their age group. It steals away their thoughts and focus to places that there experience and age can’t rightly handle.

Christian attitudes toward dating, courtship, and marriage

There can be no set of given rules regarding this subject. Biblical ethics are based on principles. Biblical views, principles and ethics should, as stated in the beginning, guide any subject in a Christian life. Your behavior choice should be determined based on the principles set forth in the word of God. Parents should be teaching the children these things. But sometimes what the parents know and their willingness to transfer the information and principles into practice is lacking. Psalm 27:10, Romans 12:2, Colossians 3. Everything you do in word or deed do all in the name of Jesus. Colossians 3:16-17. Can you glorify the Lord in dating? Jesus sought to glorify the Father not gratify Himself. John 7:18, Romans 12:1-2. The bible does not teach self gratification and fulfillment of fleshly appetites.

There are alternatives to dating. This deals with suggestions based on principles and are not intended to be exhaustive. Not every situation can be covered and there are no hard and fast rules. Nor are these things taught on to suggest that males and females can’t have anything to do with one another.

Alternatives to dating include group activities without any pairing off. Sports, hiking, games, cook outs, (bon fires) bike ridding and so on. Social youth get together (parties) for hanging out in innocent fun. Let the youth plan their events and get together. But all should be supervised by aware mature responsible adults and parents who have an interested oversight. Adults shouldn’t be breathing down their necks and micro managing the youth but more of a hands off approach based on Biblical principle not rules and regulations. They should be aware and willing to be involved and take the time to step in when there is an issue or potential boy girl drama relationships and be understanding. Not as watch dogs but back ground heavy hands. Sort of like a bouncer in a night club. Parents should not allow a pairing off of young teenagers, boys and girls, for the reason of emotional hormonal mating instinct attractions. If it does happen within the group activities and continues (a couple forms and starts showing the behavioral pattern signs of dating) the group activities just become a form of sanctified dating. Measures should be taken based on Biblical principles and dealt with according to the Holy Spirits leading. Sensitivity to the Holy Spirit on the part of the supervisor(s), be it parents or otherwise is paramount.
Girls should be taught not to flirt and be flirtatious as well as how to dress modestly.
Boys should be taught to honor and respect girls. Titus 2:1-8, 1:5-6, 1 Timothy 3:4, 11,
1 Thessalonians 5:22, 1 Timothy 5:1-2, 2 Timothy 2:22.

Now adult men and women ages 19 and up, don’t subscribe to these same guidelines because they are adults. However they, the man and the women, in socializing, should observe Christian propriety and principles. 19 and up have more liberty and self responsibility regarding the male female dynamic but still have to use common sense Christian ethics. Adults don’t need supervision like those under the age of 20. Does that mean adults can date? Sure they can. If they are engaged to be married. (or engagement proceedings.)

Excuses for dating often sound like the statements to the tune of “everybody’s doing it” or “they’ll think I’m strange or different if I don’t”. If you’re a real Christian then you won’t want to partake of the world and its ways. The decision of courtship and marriage is going to a/effect the rest of your life. ( Going steady meaning getting serious in your dating about your date is not to be confused with engagement or betrothal. Betrothal in the Bible took a bill of divorcement to break off. You couldn’t just hook up then change your mind and move on like changing your cloths.) The heart can play tricks on you. You can’t trust it to tell who your best match is. Emotions can and will deceive you.
 
May 30, 2009
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#3
Marriage

In the process of time for maturity and becoming an adult is in bloom, prospective persons do not include the unsaved. The unsaved individual will bring you down to their level. Marriage should be between Christians. You will almost never convert the unsaved after marriage as a general rule. Exceptions or examples of it happening are great grace. They, the unsaved partner, more often then not will pull you down to their level of spirituality. 1 Corinthians 15:33, Deuteronomy 7:3, Joshua 23:12-13, Ezra 9:12, Nehemiah 13:25, 1 Corinthians 7:39, 2 Corinthians 6:14, Numbers 25, Judges 13-16. For these reasons a Christian should not even consider non-Christians as prospective marriage partners. This principle follows down to differentiating between those who have the Spirit Filled Charismatic walk and those who don’t. The Spirit filled believer should not marry a non-Spirit filled believer. Remember husband or wife most often dictates their partner’s level of spirituality and if less then yours will drag you down to theirs or, at the very least, hinder your growth.

Another excuse for dating is “how will I ever find a husband or wife if I don’t date?”

“A Christian should prayerfully seek the direct providential leading of God in providing a companion for life. He is more concerned about who you marry then you are because its often the husband or wife that determines how faithful you are to God, how spiritual (you) are and how far you go in fulfilling God’s purpose in your life. So you better believe God is interested in who you marry. (would this imply unequally yoked as a possibility among Christians? Absolutely, you don’t marry some one just because they are a “Christian”) Most ignore seeking God about this issue in their life and let emotions, feelings and customs decide who their life’s companion will be basing much of the decision on the outward appearance. 1 Samuel 16:6-7. Emotion and feeling have a lot to do with it but should not be the determining factor. You should seek God’s direction in the decision making. Abraham’s servant prayed for God’s direct leading in selecting a wife for Isaac. He believed God would direct him and He did supernaturally. You can claim a husband or wife on the basis of God’s promises in His Word.(all God’s promises are yes and in Him amen) It will help you in your marriage knowing God is the one who selected him or her. If you pray for God’s will to be done about your life’s companion you won’t be an American statistic (50% divorce rate) (unless the Lord builds the house) Engagement and marriage should be between mature persons, not adolescent teens. Marriage is and adult enterprise. A person should be mature in years and experience as well as emotional development. (19 and up being a good rule of thumb although 19 is still a teenager.) (you need to have each stage of life’s experiences and lessons of growth to adulthood well in hand.) (Age is a pretty good indicator of maturity by experiences and there are some cases where persons are mature beyond there years but were talking basics not exceptions) Maturity is very important for success in marriage. There are things that can only be completed in maturity by age. There are many ways in which one should be mature. Physically: able to bear children (for the female) and able to labor at a job (for the male.) Emotionally: A mature person has gone through the childhood teenage adolescent stage and become an adult. Self Control is a mark of maturity. Proverbs 16:32. A mature person has made the adjustment to not being selfish, putting others first, being concerned about some one else besides self. Can live and work with others successfully. They can respect and interact with other personalities and have learned to leave and to cleave (the males) and give loving submission (for the females). For the men: Emotionally ready according to genesis chapter 2. Mature persons can love another for the others sake. (love some one for who they are and where they are at in the sense of how true love acts. Unconditionally) Not an “I’ll love you if you love me” or “I’ll meet you half way”. A person must, most importantly of all, be spiritually mature. A husband should be mature enough to except the responsibility of taking the spiritual leadership as well as headship of the home and live a spiritual life that commands the respect of the wife and children. The wife also by both training and example should rear her children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. If she obeys the Lord she will put home, husband and family first. (speaking to Christians of course who should understand you always have God first and foremost) A mature female is able to be a help mate, home maker, and a mother. Qualified persons should be intellectually mature, able to know from experience how to manage finances, be mister fix it in home maintenance, how to supervise a home, train children, and direct family affairs. A male should have some kind of labor or work skills to provide for a family.

Christian love between a couple who intend to marry.

Mutual love is scriptural and essential to a successful(healthy marriage) (scriptures husbands love your wives and wives love your husbands) Ephesians 5 Titus 2 Scriptural love is a God given emotion that can grow and mature after marriage, but marriage shouldn’t take place without it. Some people have marriages of convenience or marry because that’s the thing to do and pick the first available person. Christian marriage is a union of hearts and minds. Genesis 2:24. Marriage is for two to become one. Biblical love 1 Peter 3. Deuteronomy 24:5 shows the importance of the newly married state in God’s eyes. Love is the basis for biblical marriage.

Genesis 24:63 and 67 we see mutual love expressed. This story deals with a marriage arranged by God. These two had never seen each other before. (this story in no way is to imply that the example is the only way God puts couples together. God works in many different ways.) When God ordained, love will be there. It wasn’t love at first sight, it was a spiritual union. God, supernaturally, had already worked in their hearts. There was already a God ordained attraction or “connection”. Good examples of love between mature men and women are found in the book of Ruth between the couple Boaz and Ruth as well as in 1 Samuel 1:4-5 between Elkanah and Hanna. The Bible bases real true marriage on love, not physical attraction. Love is an inner emotion of the spirit given by God to draw men and women together. (Malachi 2:15?) The physical aspect of attraction is not absent but simply not the basis. Companions for life should be found supernaturally by faith. (think of it like magnets, God will align everything perfectly and when ready will make sure your magnetic field is correct to create the perfect attraction)


Attitudes of engaged or couples of intent (mature adults)

Respect parents in Biblical courtship and marriage. When adults marry it is their choice. No one else is to make the final decision for you. Being respectful and honoring your parents in the decision making process does not mean you don’t make the decision. Give parents (or guardians) common courtesy of consideration and respect as the God given influence in your life. As interested oversights with concerned vested interests in your character and wellbeing, you should honor those who value your endeavors and want to endorse them, holding the expectation of you living at the highest purpose that God has for you. Listen to wise council. Much of Christendom is filled with the spirits of Job’s three friends and the devil hates Christian marriages. Considering this, it is almost invariable that voices and opinions expressed will be contrary to the revealed will and work of God. One must be able to discern and act maturely, over all obeying God in the decisions. God is the final authority, not man. Regardless of opinion you listen to God and make the final decisive voice of His decision. In all of the different opinions, attitudes and actions of all the persons who are involved, be it good or bad, be respectful. Obey God in your social responsibilities of honoring and respecting others. Walk in the Spirit and produce the fruit there in, gently weigh each valid opinion, taking it before the Lord if it seems contrary. Seek Godly advice but don’t let peoples express view sway you for or against your personal choice. This of course hinges on you having God’s mind and knowing His will as a Spirit lead believer. If parents or persons are in opposition but you know they are wrong due to God’s divine leading, set up and revelation, based on His word and what He has shown you, don’t rebel. Wait a while in faith on Him, letting Him work. This does not imply delaying until everyone agrees. Some may never agree. Submit to God’s time table and make the decision regardless of man. Choose God’s personal choice. Isaac and Rebekah even though they had an arranged marriage had the finial say, not Abraham and not Rebekah’s family. God worked on the side of both families. God working things out, it will work. Submit to Him. Read the Genesis 24 story.

One must give earnest consideration to the body of Christ in his or her decision on marriage, being respectful and honoring them in your decision. It does affect them.
You’re bringing in and introducing a new aspect to the Body of Christ and should desire the unity of the Spirit over the issue. Its not that the Church has the say on who or if you marry but is a general respectful announcement of your marriage intent, allowing them as fellow members of the Body of Christ to give their participation on the basis of you being a member and what you do affects the whole Body.

Error regarding 1 Corinthians 7:36

1 Corinthians 7:36 would seem that the father has complete say over the daughter regarding marriage. This is not true. This story read in context and in the literal Greek with understanding of the situation Paul was speaking of, shows the light on the subject.
The theory or rule that would seem to be presented is not Biblically supported. The Bible however, does give support to mature adults having the finale decision regarding marriage. Mature Christians will understand the full aspect of this.
 
May 30, 2009
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#4
A closing review.

Matthew 6:9-13. Seek His Will for whatever Gift He has for you. The gift of single, or the Gift of marriage? Seek God to be qualified for every good work, mature in all things, ready for marriage. Being mature and ready for marriage gives you the versatility of a foundation for being single if God so gives that unique gift.

The basis for all things is seeking first the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness. Matthew 6:33. One definition of righteousness has been said to be “seeking to know God’s will and doing it”. Seek His desires, wants wishes and complete will. Have fellowship with Him in every sense of the word “fellowship” and continually meet the requirements of fellowship as set forth in His scriptures. In Mathew chapter 6 we see Jesus mention things gentiles seek. Husbands and wives can fit under this same category. The world “seeks” after finding mates all the time. Examples of that being eharmony.com, (even a“christiansingles.com”) dating services, match.com, bars and socializing to “hook up” as well as a host of TV shows promoting “finding” the “right” one. It ever fills the topics of a plethora of books and movies saturating the core undertones of art and entertainment. It is plastered all over the media and is a never ending theme in one form or another in almost every social setting. The world’s secular expression of male female relations saturates and permeates our culture. But what does God think about it? How do we as Christians find out who we are to marry? Its to be done by Faith. Faith works by love. Perfect Faith has a foundation in perfect love. One who loves God perfectly obeys God perfectly. Faith is complete, total, trust and reliance on God. One should want perfect faith. Faith doesn’t question in doubt. When a “possible perspective” member of the opposite sex crosses your path, its not faith to wonder or question if he or she is going to be "the one". Its not faith to question or wonder “is this the one? or “maybe this is the one.” God already knows who you are going to marry and doesn’t want you walking in any form of doubt or unbelief regarding things He has already made provision for. Remember the theme of the message. Abraham’s servant looked for God’s supernatural leading in finding a wife for Isaac and got it. Trust in Him that He will supernaturally work in your life to lead and guide you. Claim His promises by Faith. These include a husband or wife. God’s promises are so we can partake of His divine nature. The world as well as the “church” is filled with doubt fear and unbelief. Dating is no exception to this. Dating is not biblical because dating is doubt. Dating in its true form is seeking to find out “if this is the one”. Anything that is not of faith is sin. Romans 14:23. Now dating covers other aspects, all of which are carnal in nature or lead to carnality. Romans 8:5-8. Many of these “deeds of dating” are covered under “those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.” No one who commits sin will enter the Kingdom of God. Whatever is not of faith is sin and as we have already established, dating is doubt. No true Christian is going to partake of the world and its ways. God commands His people to “come out from them and be separate”.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18.

Now God has His version of dating. It is so opposite of the worlds version of dating and so separate from what the world’s system presents about “dating” that using the very word “dating” in describing His system, seems vulgar. But I assure you that dating God’s way is perfect. Its outline simply rests on both individuals know they are going to marry each other due to God’s perfect supernatural leading. Both meet the requirements of marriage before God because He designed the match and put them together. Where does the dating come in? Both are simply before God and man enjoying responsibly, a social life of getting to know one another before their marriage takes place. Some may call it courtship, but make no mistake. Any man made device or label placed on it, is not an accurate description of what takes place inside it. It’s for the Spirit filled/lead believer, a true Romans 8 Christian. See John 3:8. It’s based on Biblical principles, the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. There are rules, but it endeavors to be so perfect that it is above the carnal law. It adheres to the perfect combination of the Word and the Spirit. Any resemblance to the world’s system is simply dismissed by the fact that it is the original form of so called “dating” and the devil just copied it to pervert and twist.

Any attempts to have a “God given relationship” or to enter the perfect relationship dating system, prescribed by God, outside of meeting His requirements for such, will fail miserably. God’s system is designed as an adult “mature” enterprise, therefore it does carry restrictions. Take for example all throughout scripture how marriage took place between a “man” and a “woman”. This would imply age restrictions. Now again remember God’s system for the Spirit lead believer is based on principles. The requirements placed on single individuals for meeting His qualifications for marriage in our culture and society today are 99 times out of a 100 only met successfully by responsible mature adults. Let’s look at some of the outward qualifications for a husband as an example. In his life he needs to have established the necessary material items needed to provide the setting for a family and have it readily sustained. That means walking by faith, seeking first the Kingdom, God providing all the material needs by whatever venue or means He so chooses. He must be old enough to walk in these venues like working and being responsible in a source of steady income and material possessions. It is God who has to qualify the individual, male or female. One can not simply have the things necessary for a marriage in their life and see that as being qualified for building a marriage and all that it brings. Unless the Lord builds the House those who labor, labor in vain. Remember there are multiple qualification to be met for marriage, dealing in the spiritual, material, emotional, mental and physical. One should meet them all, even if in the eyes of God, supernaturally, by Faith. It is God’s stamp of approval that really counts. This maturity that brings approval comes through seeking God first foremost and in-between. It’s in submitting and yielding to the Holy Spirit completely, walking in the Spirit, living the deeper life. It’s in yielding to the course and process of becoming a mature son or daughter of God and walking in it. It is developed through coming to the maturity of the faith, the full measure and stature of Jesus Christ. It’s found in knowing and understanding God and built through the process of doing so, in perfect fellowship and relationship, obeying Him. I hope that you the reader, in what ever state you are in, married or single, will seek to live at the highest purpose that God holds for your life and be content knowing that you are truly complete in Him.
 
Nov 14, 2008
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#5
did you come up with all of this yourself?????
 
May 30, 2009
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#6
did you come up with all of this yourself?????
I stated a large source at the start of the paper. My best Friend helped me a lot. Its something I put together after a serious mistake in my life. It was "on the road to recovery" that I started looking for answers.
 
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LinaLinaLina

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#9
It's a wonderful post!! I have not read the whole thing but have read a big part and will continue reading it. I too made many mistakes before giving my life to Christ and now that I'm getting married I can see the effects it can have. The thing is that we want to give God partial control of our life, I know i did. When I gave up dating and gave Him control, it was then that I met my future husband. The book I kissed Dating Goodbye gave me a totally different perspective on dating and I recommend it for someone who wants to read more about it. When I met him, I knew right away that this was it. That it was God who had chosen this man to be my husband. It was the most wonderful feeling!! It's true, you just know. It was also in a time when I really needed him, God knows when the time is right. The time we're single we're to spend growing spiritually and preparing for when that time actually come. We have to trust God in every aspect of our lives, not just those we feel comfortable about. We have to put our faith in Him that He will bring the person that He has chosen for us because He already has.
 
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Ancilla

Guest
#10
Ok, I'm confused, so this is your opinion, but you've been influenced by Dr. Freeman, is that right? Some of the facts you sate, are you citing him? Because if so I'd like to know where he got some of his facts. Like, "Dating has promoted a high rate increase in illegitimate pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases." Where did he get that from?? Like, when my mom was 14 in 1960, dating was a lot more common than when I was 14. I mean, I should specify that where I was living when I was 14 in 1995, kids my age were doing a lot less dating then where my mom was living in 1960. Like, she said that she always had a boyfriend until the end of high school, as did all her friends. She said that if there was a party or something and a boy didn't ask a girl, the girl just wouldn't go. When I was 14 if one was invited to a party by the host or hostess, girls would go to the party and having a date for the party wouldn't even cross their mind. So my mom said that because if one didn't have a boy to take them out one just didn't have a social life, that it would just be easier to find a boy and "go steady" with him, even if she wasn't wild about it. That's just what everyone did. But, despite all this dating, there was much less sex and STDs were almost unheard of. First of all, there were only two STDs back then, ghonorrea and syphyllis, which I probably spelled wrong. I mean, there were the "bad girls" in the higher grades in high school, but the majority of sex before marriage in that era happend during engagement. Now, not only is are kids have more sexual partners younger, the rate of teens engaging in sexual acts with other teens who they aren't even dating, is crazy high.
 
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#11
I hesitate to write about the following topics do to the volatility in nature and so much material as well as opinions, already out there. Do to this very fact I believe a Biblical view should prevail. Biblical principles should prevail in all issues and events of the Christian life.
The truth of the matter is, the Bible doesn't say anything about dating. We like to take Biblical principals and apply them to modern courtship in our culture. We'd like to think that those Biblical principals are clear enough that one point of view should prevail, but I just don't think that's the case. See, when we hear a good interpretation of the Bible, we like to think that that is the one correct interpretation and anyone who disagrees is in denial. I mean, yeah, there are some things in the Bible that are pretty darn clear. The important stuff, like Jesus raising from the dead. But, as much as we wish it were not the case, while the Bible is clear about how we are to conduct ourselves spiritually, it doesn't have details about how we should live our lives in every other respect. This is when Christians disagree even when they are all very sincere about living Biblically. Like, Dr. Hobart (according to Wikipedia, if it's wrong, go change it) didn't believe in bith control or modern medicine. Well, there's nothing in the Bible that says "don't use birth control" that was just his interpretation.

Secondly, when you talk about Biblical courtship and marraige, you aren't (granted I haven't read all of it) making the distinction between the Old Testemant and New Testament. I mean, you say that you think God wants most people to get married. Where's that in the Bible? Because if you say it's in the Old Testament, that would mean that He wanted most Jews to get married and that would make sense if one didn't have Jesus.

Third when you talk about the Biblical principals of marriage, you haven't said that we need to take our culture into account. For example, our culture doesn't do arranged marriage or Levirate marriage, even though that's in the Bible.
 
May 30, 2009
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#12
The truth of the matter is, the Bible doesn't say anything about dating. We like to take Biblical principals and apply them to modern courtship in our culture. We'd like to think that those Biblical principals are clear enough that one point of view should prevail, but I just don't think that's the case. See, when we hear a good interpretation of the Bible, we like to think that that is the one correct interpretation and anyone who disagrees is in denial. I mean, yeah, there are some things in the Bible that are pretty darn clear. The important stuff, like Jesus raising from the dead. But, as much as we wish it were not the case, while the Bible is clear about how we are to conduct ourselves spiritually, it doesn't have details about how we should live our lives in every other respect. This is when Christians disagree even when they are all very sincere about living Biblically. Like, Dr. Hobart (according to Wikipedia, if it's wrong, go change it) didn't believe in bith control or modern medicine. Well, there's nothing in the Bible that says "don't use birth control" that was just his interpretation.

Secondly, when you talk about Biblical courtship and marraige, you aren't (granted I haven't read all of it) making the distinction between the Old Testemant and New Testament. I mean, you say that you think God wants most people to get married. Where's that in the Bible? Because if you say it's in the Old Testament, that would mean that He wanted most Jews to get married and that would make sense if one didn't have Jesus.

Third when you talk about the Biblical principals of marriage, you haven't said that we need to take our culture into account. For example, our culture doesn't do arranged marriage or Levirate marriage, even though that's in the Bible.
Distinction between old testemant and new....Its still the Same God.

As far as birth control the Bible does give it's thoughts on that.

Our culture is so far from God. I'm talking about God supernaturally working to put people together.

I can state tons and I mean tons of scripture that is to guide our actions in the hear and now of today. The bible isn't out right clear....i agree.....But if you know the Person of God and what He intends....you begin to understand. its relationship not rules.
 
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#13
ALL And i mean all of the bible....is true for today. You can not....cherry pick....you can't say....welll....the Bible isn't clear about this...so I'm gonna do this.

Seek God.....There is an answer for all generations. The Bible is timeless.
 
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#14
rust in Him that He will supernaturally work in your life to lead and guide you. Claim His promises by Faith. These include a husband or wife. God’s promises are so we can partake of His divine nature. The world as well as the “church” is filled with doubt fear and unbelief. Dating is no exception to this. Dating is not biblical because dating is doubt. Dating in its true form is seeking to find out “if this is the one”. Anything that is not of faith is sin. Romans 14:23. Now dating covers other aspects, all of which are carnal in nature or lead to carnality. Romans 8:5-8. Many of these “deeds of dating” are covered under “those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.” No one who commits sin will enter the Kingdom of God. Whatever is not of faith is sin and as we have already established, dating is doubt. No true Christian is going to partake of the world and its ways. God commands His people to “come out from them and be separate”.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18.
 
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#15
Distinction between old testemant and new....Its still the Same God.
Let me explain. In the Old Testament, one was born a Jew. Yes conversion was possible like Rahab, but the main, preferred way of expanding God's people was through the Jews having more babies. This is why there's such an emphasis on marriage (that is Jews marrying Jews) and having children in the Old Testament. However, in the New Testament, we learn that one must be born again, and anyone can be born again regardless of what race they are born into. So having children to add to the family of God was no longer emphasized. If I lived in the Old Testament, as an unmarried 28 year old woman, I'd probably be considered selfish and disobedient.

As far as birth control the Bible does give it's thoughts on that.
You're right, which is why preacher's like Dr. Freeman who oppose birth control make me very uncomfortable. We should never raise our own ideas to what is clear in the Bible.

Our culture is so far from God. I'm talking about God supernaturally working to put people together.

I can state tons and I mean tons of scripture that is to guide our actions in the hear and now of today. The bible isn't out right clear....i agree.....But if you know the Person of God and what He intends....you begin to understand. its relationship not rules.
You're right, our culture is far from God. All cultures are. All cultures that exist have been far from God. I know it's easy to think that back in the day when pretty much everyone went to church and the only churches were Christian churches that we were somehow less sinful, and that society then was somehow more righteous then than it is now. But when I studied history in university I found that view lack support in facts. What I'm saying about our culture is that the Bible was written for the intended cultures, the ancient Jews, the early Christians in various places. We live in a different culture from them, but that doesn't mean that we're more sinful. Like I said, in our culture we don't have arranged marriage and couples fall in love before marriage. Are you saying that practice is far from God?

You're right, it is about relationship and not rules. That's why I don't like Freeman's rules against birth control and modern medicine. If something's not specifically forbidden in the Bible, you should abstain from it if you feel that it's interfering with your relationship with God. I know Christians that just don't feel right about using birth control, but I don't think it should be preached from the pulpit because it's just not in the Bible.

See, it's inarguable what the Bible says about how we are to treat each other. Some people find they can't treat each other in a way that glorifies God if they're dating. I mean there was one guy on the this forum who just couldn't separate the idea of casual dating from casual sex. Well, he definitely shouldn't be dating then. What I don't like is when Christians who can't feel that they can't date go around saying that no one should. Some Christians can with a clear conscience, and I don't think they should be judged by other Christians, because there's nothing in the Bible that specifically forbids it.

I mean there is a lot, A LOT that I see Christians doing and I wonder how they justify it Biblically. But I know that not everyone sees things the way I do and I try to remember that God is there judge and not me.
 
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#16
ALL And i mean all of the bible....is true for today. You can not....cherry pick....you can't say....welll....the Bible isn't clear about this...so I'm gonna do this.

Seek God.....There is an answer for all generations. The Bible is timeless.
This is what I'm talking about. There are different interpretations. Just because one doesn't have your interpretation doesn't mean they are cherry picking. The Bible isn't specific about this, so I'm going to pray about it and talk to older wiser Christians who know what they're talking about. One can equally be trying to please God and come up with a different interpretation than you (or me).

Yes the Bible is the answer but not the answer for everything in every aspect of life. I mean, do you oppose democracy because it's not in the Bible? I mean, one could pose the question "Should we have democracy?" and different Christians could put aside all their feeling of what they want and just look at what the Bible says, and possibly come up with different answers.
 
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#17
You think that because of my age that the wisdom of Jesus does not dwell in me? There is only one true interpretation of the Bible. That is the person who wrote it. That person is the Person of the Holy Spirit. If the Person of the Holy Spirit dwells in you then He will lead you and guide you into all truth.
 
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#18
You think that because of my age that the wisdom of Jesus does not dwell in me? There is only one true interpretation of the Bible. That is the person who wrote it. That person is the Person of the Holy Spirit. If the Person of the Holy Spirit dwells in you then He will lead you and guide you into all truth.
No, I don't think it's because of your age or anything. I think it's kind of arrogant to say that because one is a Christian that one's interpreation of the Bible is always correct. I mean I read something in a Joshua Harris book, it was an interpretation of a passage of scripture, and at the time it sounded right to me. But since then I've heard a respected theologian offer a dramatically different interpretation of that same scripture which makes a lot more sense to me. It fits better into my Biblical understanding of the Trinity and the divinity of Christ. In other words, I found this new interpretation to be more scripturally sound than the old one. BUT, the verse had to be put into cultural context. Like, we can think that the Bible was written for everyone and it was in the sense that the Bible is the Word of God and He wants everyone to recieve the Gospel, but it's not in the sense that the authors had a clear audience in mind and so they wrote things that would they knew their audience would understand given our culture. This is why Biblical scholars find that studying those cultures help them better understand the Bible. I should write a thread specifically on what that passage was and how the Harris book and the other theologian had different interpretations. But not on the singles forum because it doesn't have to do with singleness or dating.

I mean, how many theologians have you read? Did they always agree on all points?
 
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#19
Theologians.......well The Bible was written to Christians, not non-believers. Theologians...have their place....but do not replace.....The Holy Spirit. I do not claim that what I say about the bible is correct. I do claim what He says is correct. You can not rely on man to do your thinking for you. Men are not responsible for the bible nor can they understand it of themselves. Its not to be read like a text book. I do not vouch for what some one wrote in a book. I do vouch for what the Holy Spirit wrote. Anything that I have written about can be taken to several differnt people and you will get several different view points. Bottom line is this. What does the Holy Spirit say about it. Believe and Seek God, not man.
 
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#20
rust in Him that He will supernaturally work in your life to lead and guide you. Claim His promises by Faith. These include a husband or wife.
But where does it say in the New Testament that God will give everyone a husband or a wife? I mean, don't you know anyone who never got married? If your church preaches that God brings all good Christians a spouse eventually, those who don't get married might have left because they were dispointed that God broke their promise to them, when in fact no where in scripture does God promise a spouse to everyone and that they can take a passive approach and that God will do all the work for them.

Yes, you're right, God does lead and guide you, but sometimes there's work involved.

Dating is not biblical because dating is doubt. Dating in its true form is seeking to find out “if this is the one”. Anything that is not of faith is sin.
You're going to have to explain what you mean here. Did God tell us that He'd always tell all of us who is the one like he did with Isaac?

Now dating covers other aspects, all of which are carnal in nature or lead to carnality. Romans 8:5-8. Many of these “deeds of dating” are covered under “those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.” No one who commits sin will enter the Kingdom of God. Whatever is not of faith is sin and as we have already established, dating is doubt. No true Christian is going to partake of the world and its ways. God commands His people to “come out from them and be separate”.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18.
Ok, so you say that dating is seeing if someone is "the one" but you say that this is lead by sinful nature. I mean I tend to agree with Joshua Harris who said that just because people have sinned as a result of dating, doesn't mean that dating is, in itself, sinful. I mean, people have sinned at church, but that doesn't make going to church sinful. Should we always not do what the world does? The world gets married and sins, does that mean we shouldn't get married?

See, what gets me about your essay is that you're very sepcific about what the Bible says, but not in relation to it supporting your arguement. I mean, I've read Romans many times. It doesn't mention dating. So, for example, it's undeniable that forinication is a sin, and many people who date forinicate, but does that mean that such practice in inevitable while dating? Well, what do you know about dating to support that statement?

Secondly, you seem to saying a lot of sociology like statements, (I'll give you some examples if you want) but how do you know that they're true? Where did you read them?