lets all sin!!!!!!

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feedm3

Guest
I am saying, is it all about getting one up on another or conveying the Truth?

Originally Posted by feedm3

Great response, I believe you nailed him with that one.
Everything you said you had scripture to back it up, unlike someone else.
It has nothing to do with "getting one up" seeing there is none keeping score (I think). it does have to do with when I see someone standing for truth, I will support them.

On the other hand, one who attacking everything one says, accusing them of not understanding grace, being false teachers etc, just for teaching what the scriptures teach, then yes I will point out the fact there is no scripture in their opinions and support those who take a stance against them. You can look at how you want, but the word teaches us to be set for the defense of the gospel, and stop the mouths of those who will pervert it.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
It has nothing to do with "getting one up" seeing there is none keeping score (I think). it does have to do with when I see someone standing for truth, I will support them.

On the other hand, one who attacking everything one says, accusing them of not understanding grace, being false teachers etc, just for teaching what the scriptures teach, then yes I will point out the fact there is no scripture in their opinions and support those who take a stance against them. You can look at how you want, but the word teaches us to be set for the defense of the gospel, and stop the mouths of those who will pervert it.
As you wish.
 
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feedm3

Guest
As I wish? I didn't wish for you to do anything. You made a statement I responded. "As you wish" doesn't really make sense with anything I said, so I don't know what you mean once again. You keep making these little statements in which I have to ask what do you mean?

Not trying to offend you or anything, just saying, if you have something to say just say it, get it out there save us both some time. Like I said no offense.
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
are you just trying to pick a fight feedm3?

your comment seemed snide and snarky.

and your "support" divisive.
you said that is not what you meant by it.

You could have worded it with a positive message without commenting upon "unlike others"

he said "as you wish", in that if you don't see its a problem then he doesn't see the point in discussing it.

why don't you just let it drop?

If you want you can pick a fight with me, but I'd probably just cry and it would ruin your fun.
 
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feedm3

Guest
are you just trying to pick a fight feedm3?

your comment seemed snide and snarky.

and your "support" divisive.
you said that is not what you meant by it.

You could have worded it with a positive message without commenting upon "unlike others"

he said "as you wish", in that if you don't see its a problem then he doesn't see the point in discussing it.

why don't you just let it drop?

If you want you can pick a fight with me, but I'd probably just cry and it would ruin your fun.
are you just trying to pick a fight feedm3?

your comment seemed snide and snarky.

and your "support" divisive.
you said that is not what you meant by it.

You could have worded it with a positive message without commenting upon "unlike others"

he said "as you wish", in that if you don't see its a problem then he doesn't see the point in discussing it.

why don't you just let it drop?

If you want you can pick a fight with me, but I'd probably just cry and it would ruin your fun.
Well you just explianing that to me actully helpled me understand what he meant. If he did not see the point in disscussing it with me because I did not get his first statement, then dont comment if you wont take the time to explain what you mean.
Secondly, I did not get what he means by "as you wish", and I was asking and wanted him to just say whatever he was meaning, as you just did.

Now I see I could have left out "unlike others", yet do you know how many times that has been said about me, i does not bother me, but if it bothers others, I will not do it and I apologize.

However, someone who trying to pick a fight does not say two times "i am not trying to offend you", but you know that already, so then what are your motives for this post?

Now I will ask you, are you trying to pick a fight? Because you condemn my attitude in my posts and then show the exact same attitude you are condemning. Not very helpful in that sense.
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
deflection.... and interference...

people say "i am not trying to offend you" as if that would excuse anything they say afterwards.

divisive as in there is two different factions, instead of trying to get people to agree to one Truth that God reveals through His Holy Spirit.

its the "us" against "them" mentality, and appearance of cheering on a person who is boxing.

You normally don't say "you Nailed him" because that makes it seem like they are fighting each other and not discussing ideas.

and who are you referring to when you say "unlike someone else" everyone I've meet so far uses scriptures to back up their beliefs. whether I agree with the usage is another story but most try to base their beliefs on scripture.

it would be respectful to recognize that even if you don't agree with them.
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
Well you just explianing that to me actully helpled me understand what he meant. If he did not see the point in disscussing it with me because I did not get his first statement, then dont comment if you wont take the time to explain what you mean.
Secondly, I did not get what he means by "as you wish", and I was asking and wanted him to just say whatever he was meaning, as you just did.

Now I see I could have left out "unlike others", yet do you know how many times that has been said about me, i does not bother me, but if it bothers others, I will not do it and I apologize.

However, someone who trying to pick a fight does not say two times "i am not trying to offend you", but you know that already, so then what are your motives for this post?

Now I will ask you, are you trying to pick a fight? Because you condemn my attitude in my posts and then show the exact same attitude you are condemning. Not very helpful in that sense.
i'm a parrot.

you'll either learn to love me or want to strangle me ;)
 
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feedm3

Guest
deflection.... and interference...

people say "i am not trying to offend you" as if that would excuse anything they say afterwards.

divisive as in there is two different factions, instead of trying to get people to agree to one Truth that God reveals through His Holy Spirit.

its the "us" against "them" mentality, and appearance of cheering on a person who is boxing.

You normally don't say "you Nailed him" because that makes it seem like they are fighting each other and not discussing ideas.

and who are you referring to when you say "unlike someone else" everyone I've meet so far uses scriptures to back up their beliefs. whether I agree with the usage is another story but most try to base their beliefs on scripture.

it would be respectful to recognize that even if you don't agree with them.
"are you trying to pick a fight" not a real question, but an accusation based on an assumption of one's motives.

"i would cry and ruin YOUR fun" another accusation that proves the first, and implies I pick fights for fun. Now slander and accusations based on assumptions.

Now, can you admit when your wrong, or only point out others mistakes?
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
"are you trying to pick a fight" not a real question, but an accusation based on an assumption of one's motives.
no that was a warning that if you continued you might get one whether that was your intentions or not.

"i would cry and ruin YOUR fun" another accusation that proves the first, and implies I pick fights for fun. Now slander and accusations based on assumptions.
you are really prickly tonight aren't you?

Now, can you admit when your wrong, or only point out others mistakes?
yes i'm wrong, I actually thought you might have a sense of humor.

I'll run off now and talk to people who might actually like to have a civilized conversation instead of ego stroking.
 
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feedm3

Guest
no that was a warning that if you continued you might get one whether that was your intentions or not.

you are really prickly tonight aren't you?


yes i'm wrong, I actually thought you might have a sense of humor.

I'll run off now and talk to people who might actually like to have a civilized conversation instead of ego stroking.
Oh okay, you said your were wrong and managed to get one more insult in before you left. Thanks for answering my question though, i see you were just picking a fight:(
 
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feedm3

Guest
I have had a few minutes to reflect on some of the things I have said. AnandaHya, I am sorry for attacking what you said to me trying to help me. I can see how your end statement is humoris now that I read it with that mindset. I did not see it that way at first, but saw it as a cheapshot at me. I appreciate what you said and your are right, It seems like I am trying to be argumentative, I should word things alot different.

cfultz3 , you were right in the very beginning, I did not need to make that comment about certain people that I don't agree with, I am sorry for not accepting what you said, because you are totally right. Thank you for your humble approach to try and keep peace in these discussions.

Red, anything I have said that is offensive, I am sorry for that, and I will try not to get that way, please do the same with me. We are discussing God's word, you feel you are speaking the truth and I feel I am too, and sometimes I forget the most import thing, "speak the truth in love". Doesn't matter what I say if I do not do that.

I might not agree with some things, but I dont want to offend any of you so I am very sorry.
 
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mmlj29

Guest
I think many on here must be confused in what we are teaching concerning repentance.

No one is sinless - Rom 3:23. No one is perfect as Christ was.
I am not saying if you commit a sin after becoming a Christian you are no longer saved.

There is a difference in living in sin, and falling short and committing a sin.

Homosexuals for example:
If a gay man becomes a Christian, he must repent of being gay and walk in adherence to God's word.

If he falls during his Christian walk, and commits a sin, he needs to repent again and ask for forgiveness.

Yet if he chooses to go back to being gay, and continues this, he has not repented, therefore he is no longer walking in the light and the blood of Christ is not cleansing his homosexual sin, he is in danger, until he repents of this.

And this goes for any other sins, we may find ourselves committing.

II Pet 3:9, God wants us all to repent. Everyday He allows the world to continue is because of his long-suffering and Him giving all who hear the truth a chance to repent. Yet one day it will be too late for many.
I agree, if someone has a moment of weakness or "relapses" it doesn't make their salvation void. We just have to repent and try again.

And we need to remember that God is very patient with us.

Mat 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Mat 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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If your heart was established in grace you would acknowledge the truth of the scripture but it would be done in the grace of God. The gospel of Christ is one of grace and truth and the message of the gospel of salvation is grace. The Spirit that God has given unto us by promise is the Spirit of grace. It is mercy and goodness (God's grace) that followed David all the days of his life and we have those same sure mercies (Acts 13:34). Most of the epistles are opened with grace and closed with the grace of God and even the last inspired scripture we read in Revelation 22:21 is a prayer of grace...The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all, Amen.

To know our Lord is to know Him as the God of all grace. Without the grace of God we would have never been forgiven or cleansed from our sin. Without grace we would have never been given the Holy Spirit. Without grace we would have no fellowship. Without grace there would be no believers and no body of Christ and no church. Without grace we would have no chance for a more abundant life. Without grace there would be no way to edify and build up other believers in Christ. Without grace there would be no throne of grace to obtain mercy and find grace to help in the time of need. Without grace we would have nothing to suffice us in our weakness. Without grace we would live in condemnation and have to depend upon the law. Without grace we would have no hope of salvation or eternal life. Get the picture and there is so much more about God's grace...

Eph 2:4-7

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

God's grace is indeed His graciousness. Grace is also His divine influence on the heart.

Grace never was and never will be a cover for willful sin.

One is still dead in their sins even after a genuine repentance and that is why one must be raised up by the power of God and the blood applied to wash away past sins.

Verse 5 there is the quickening which means...

suzōopoieō
From G4862 and G2227; to reanimate conjointly with (figuratively): - quicken together with.


This is what God does, we cannot do it. It is His divine influence on our heart revealing the true light.

I wrote an article on the Quickening if you would like to take a look.

The Pearl of Great Price: Salvation



What the modern theologians have done is redefine grace into being a cover for continued willful sin. Grace has nothing to do with that and that is a dangerous error.

This is why people will constantly refer to grace as a covering as opposed to a cleansing. We are cleansed through God's grace by abiding in the light through a working faith as we submit to God as He works through us. Thus we align our walk with His revealed will as we grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ having had our previous sins purged by the blood.

That is salvation.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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I agree, if someone has a moment of weakness or "relapses" it doesn't make their salvation void. We just have to repent and try again.

And we need to remember that God is very patient with us.

Mat 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Mat 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

What you are talking about is oft misunderstood.

God counts us righteous by our faith (Rom 4:11-12) but the faith that counts is a true genuine faith that works by love (Gal 5:6) that fulfills the righteous requirements (Rom 8:4) of the law because the law has been established in the heart (Rom 3:31). In other words the heart has been purified by faith (Act 15:9).

A person who willfully transgresses the light of their conscience, that is, they KNOW what is the right thing to do and they willfully choose to do wrong, that person is not right with God.

Thus it is error to say that someone can be "saved" and then "slip" into an act of fornication and not "lose their salvation."

Salvation is not some sort of ticket, it is a state of being. Salvation is being saved from the corrupting influence of sin and being able to walk in the light. The purging of our past sins and being reconciled to God go alongside salvation too.

An error in modern theology is that people view salvation as some sort of "arrangement" or a "deal" that they have made with God. As long as they "believe" in something then they have made this deal and have thus entered into some sort of contract.

This error is mainly due in regards to how the death of Christ on the cross is viewed. The predominant teaching today is the "Penal Substitution" view.

The Penal Substitution view is only about 400 years old and was never taught in the early church.

The early church held to what is known as the "Ransom Model." Under the Ransom Model Jesus purchased the sinner by paying a ransom with His blood from the corrupting influence of sin. The sinner, in order to partake in the reconciliation process, would have to repent and enter into the New Covenant by faith.

It was through repentance that the mind was changed was brought into alignment with God. This in turn produced a total forsaking of all known sin because the new believer would be walking in submission to the light revealed to them. The rebellion in the heart had been broken.

Faith was the dynamic which allowed all this to happen because it is the mind totally persuaded about the things of God, thus faith is the substance and evidence of things not yet seen. A true faith is such a persuasion of the mind that an individual acts upon it in all that they do.

Thus God leads with His grace which is his influence on the heart provided as a gift and faith reacts by applying what it teaches.

This is how the early church taught it. It is not taught like that today.

Under the Penal Substitution model Jesus is the sinners substitute. Jesus takes their place on the cross and is punished by God in their stead. Thus the "penalty" of sin has been completely paid for and cannot be required again. This is where the doctrine of "eternal security" comes from because it is an inevitable logical conclusion to the Penal model.

Under the reformed school of thought they also teach that the actual "righteousness of Christ," or in other words, Jesus obedient track record, is actually transferred to the sinners account. This is known as a double imputation because the sin is transferred to Jesus and His righteousness is transferred to the sinner. Thus when God looks at the sinner "who believes" all he sees is the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

It is pure fiction and is not in the Bible. The primary verses used to support this error are 2Cor5:21 which is better understood as a "sin offering" and Rom 3:24 which is taken out of context.

This is why in the church system the "sinners prayer" is used. The "sinners prayer" which is built upon isolating several scriptures in Romans is the method by which people make this "deal" or "transaction" with God. Upon making the transaction they believe they have been "covered" by the blood because Jesus "paid the price" for them.

It is all a masterful satanic deception which sounds right and will fool those who do not actually dig deep into the Scripture. It is extremely dangerous and it is pretty much universally preached everywhere today.

The holiness side of the church (Arminian, Wesleyian, Nazarene, some Pentecostal denominations) does not place as much emphasis on the "imputed righteousness of Christ but more on what they call "total sanctification" which to put it simple is "sinning less and less."

The Arminian side of the church is much more contradictory because they use the cover of Penal Substitution to make up the slack until entire sanctification is reached.

They are really teaching the same error as that on the reformed side because both the reformers and the arminians are estabished on the premise of an inborn sin nature. Thus they have to tailor the Gospel to support a "saved in sins" message. Logically, if you are saved in your sins then there can be no sin that can disqualify you.

We have emailed many pastors to discuss these things and they all, without exception, believe that salvation is a cover and not a cleansing. Many will appear to be telling the truth until their theology is unwrapped through probing them in regards to when any sin MUST stop. None will say that any sin MUST stop.

It is because of these deceptions that no-one is coming out of their sins in the church system. Everyone gets saved "in" their sins, or they thing they do.



I really hope you ponder these things and start digging because the deception in force today is so deep and dangerous and only those who are diligent will not be fooled.

Many will say Lord, Lord and will be rejected because they bought into a false gospel message which did not have them departing from iniquity to do the Father's will.

God bless.
 
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mmlj29

Guest
Thus it is error to say that someone can be "saved" and then "slip" into an act of fornication and not "lose their salvation."
Speaking of "slip"....I dont bye into this slipping in and out of salvation way of thinking. You are basing salvation too much on your own works and righteousness. I hope you dont have a bad day and then unexpectedly die. I mean you may have been saved that morning and then that afternoon, you slip up and sin and before you have a chance to repent you die of a sudden heart attack.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

...and yes God did "save us in our sins"

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

But dont think I'm condoning sin and saying we can just live like we want because...

1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

But also keep in mind....

1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
Romans 5


12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


2 Corinthians 3


4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit;[a] for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
 
Jun 24, 2010
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God's grace is indeed His graciousness. Grace is also His divine influence on the heart.

Grace never was and never will be a cover for willful sin.

One is still dead in their sins even after a genuine repentance and that is why one must be raised up by the power of God and the blood applied to wash away past sins.

Verse 5 there is the quickening which means...

suzōopoieō
From G4862 and G2227; to reanimate conjointly with (figuratively): - quicken together with.


This is what God does, we cannot do it. It is His divine influence on our heart revealing the true light.

I wrote an article on the Quickening if you would like to take a look.

The Pearl of Great Price: Salvation



What the modern theologians have done is redefine grace into being a cover for continued willful sin. Grace has nothing to do with that and that is a dangerous error.

This is why people will constantly refer to grace as a covering as opposed to a cleansing. We are cleansed through God's grace by abiding in the light through a working faith as we submit to God as He works through us. Thus we align our walk with His revealed will as we grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ having had our previous sins purged by the blood.

That is salvation.
If God rolled back the windows of heaven and gave you and I a glimpse from His throne of grace, I think we would be shocked, amazed and bewildered at just how much sin (willful or otherwise) that His grace, through the blood of Christ that was sprinkled upon the mercy seat, has covered in our own lives, even to this very day. We should rejoice over that but there are some that demand repentance. There is an abundance of sin that we have been a partaker of that we have not even been convicted of yet and that has to do with iniquity. There is so much evil in the heart of some believer's because of iniquity that they and others would never know anything about it because they don't live in any outward sins of the flesh. They are pretty good at keeping that in check at least outwardly.

But when it comes to the tongue their counsel is not from God. Have you ever studied the content of Job's three friends and the counsel they gave to him? What did the Lord think of that counsel and what were they persuaded of that was going on in Job's life that was bringing on so much adversity and calamity? None of you guys want to talk about iniquity and the roll is plays in the believer's life including your life as well. You just want to talk about outward sin and not the issues and imagination of the heart that involve iniquity and many sins of the tongue. Let's not talk about repenting of those things. You guys act like a bunch of loose women when it comes to iniquity because you have never been taught anything about it except maybe a definition or two. So go get out your commentaries and your favored website and learn all about it in the next (30) minutes and come back and show us your expertise. That is something that just might give me a chuckle, but it will take alot more than that I'm afraid.
 
Jun 24, 2010
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God's grace is indeed His graciousness. Grace is also His divine influence on the heart.

Grace never was and never will be a cover for willful sin.

One is still dead in their sins even after a genuine repentance and that is why one must be raised up by the power of God and the blood applied to wash away past sins.

Verse 5 there is the quickening which means...

suzōopoieō
From G4862 and G2227; to reanimate conjointly with (figuratively): - quicken together with.


This is what God does, we cannot do it. It is His divine influence on our heart revealing the true light.

I wrote an article on the Quickening if you would like to take a look.

The Pearl of Great Price: Salvation



What the modern theologians have done is redefine grace into being a cover for continued willful sin. Grace has nothing to do with that and that is a dangerous error.

This is why people will constantly refer to grace as a covering as opposed to a cleansing. We are cleansed through God's grace by abiding in the light through a working faith as we submit to God as He works through us. Thus we align our walk with His revealed will as we grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ having had our previous sins purged by the blood.

That is salvation.
Tell me something, Oh righteous one, why do the scriptures in (Rom 5:15,17,20) point out that when sin abounds that grace MUCH MORE abounds? Why does God make grace abound MUCH MORE than sin? According to you no one gets grace until they repent, so why does God make grace MUCH MORE abound on behalf of the guilty sinner? If I remember correctly, and I do, didn't Christ come and die for man while he was yet a sinner (Rom 5:8). Why would God choose to give sinful man an act of mercy and grace by sending His Son before man repented of his sin, when the law had already come to show him his sin and how guilty he really is, maybe because of what (Rom 8:3,4) says...

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in (not by) us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The law can always condemn the sinner as a transgressor, but the law has no power to condemn sin, that could only happen through Christ on the cross through His flesh, who is the end of the law of righteousness to everyone the BELIEVETH (Rom 10:4)! ...and read on.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
I have had a few minutes to reflect on some of the things I have said. AnandaHya, I am sorry for attacking what you said to me trying to help me. I can see how your end statement is humoris now that I read it with that mindset. I did not see it that way at first, but saw it as a cheapshot at me. I appreciate what you said and your are right, It seems like I am trying to be argumentative, I should word things alot different.

cfultz3 , you were right in the very beginning, I did not need to make that comment about certain people that I don't agree with, I am sorry for not accepting what you said, because you are totally right. Thank you for your humble approach to try and keep peace in these discussions.

Red, anything I have said that is offensive, I am sorry for that, and I will try not to get that way, please do the same with me. We are discussing God's word, you feel you are speaking the truth and I feel I am too, and sometimes I forget the most import thing, "speak the truth in love". Doesn't matter what I say if I do not do that.

I might not agree with some things, but I dont want to offend any of you so I am very sorry.
Accepted, and likewise, if I have offended, I do apologize. There is wisdom in few words.