Can someone lose their salvation?

[eternally-gratefull]

those in favor of OSAS will only post their side, selenah... while there are scriptures that teach that, there are also other scriptures that say a man can forfeit his salvation from sin and false doctrine. when it comes to salvation, you can't cite one part of scriptures, and then ignore the other side...

now, if this doctrine, once saved always saved, were indeed biblical and scriptural, it would be painfully evident within the early church fathers... the fact of the matter is, unconditional eternal security didnt exist during that time.

the only place it existed was in Greek philosophy, because that's where it started.
in Epicurean Gnosticism.

Like I said selena. We see this guys faults. He is listening to men and Not God. the church became roman in nature around 300 Ad, and they destroyed any documents they considered severe heresy. One would be believing in faith alone.

If you look, the early church believed mary was a virgin, mother of God, and they also believed tin the Eucharistic teaching of true flesh and blood at the lords supper. The fact is, the only history we can prove is scripture. Jewish hjistory outside scripture did nto support Christ. that is why he broke their man made laws, and rejected their history outside scripture. And why they rejected him, They held historical writings outside scriptiure as equal to it. and in doing so followed men and not God. we should learn from their mistake.

The fact is, He has positional sanctification and conditional sanctification messed up and together.

My position is in Christ. My condition is depent on my life. I should be growing in Christ to match my condition with my position. As we all should. He want to make sanctification conditional equal to eternal life. and he wants to earn his salvation by doing whatever it is he thinks we have the ability to do to earn a gift God promised to all who have faith in him.

 

[selenah]

How did you deny God? This is the question. did you stop believing in him fully? Or just lose faith in him?

I have lost faith, and even became a prodigal son. But I never stopped believing Christ was the messiah who died for our sin.

It does not have to do with free will. If you have Christ and the HS in you. and have seen Gods love and his forgiveness. How could you every deny him fully and no longer say he is the christ who died for you? I just can't see it.

Either way, John said we would never depart. So that is good enough for me

Well there were a few times. When I was really little someone told me to never say that I don't believe in God because it would open up my mind so...stupid me said "I don't believe in God" just out of curiosity. I wasn't that serious thoug. A year ago I was definitly serious about trying to stop believing in God and said I hated Him and didn't believe in Him and stuff. There's been other things to I guess. I'm not sure if I ever completely stopped believeing or not. Anyways not sure.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well there were a few times. When I was really little someone told me to never say that I don't believe in God because it would open up my mind so...stupid me said "I don't believe in God" just out of curiosity. I wasn't that serious thoug. A year ago I was definitly serious about trying to stop believing in God and said I hated Him and didn't believe in Him and stuff. There's been other things to I guess. I'm not sure if I ever completely stopped believeing or not. Anyways not sure.

I am sure we have all been angry enough to say it. But I think if we looked deep inside, it was our flesh talking and not us. I have also been there.

 

[Tombo]

Well there were a few times. When I was really little someone told me to never say that I don't believe in God because it would open up my mind so...stupid me said "I don't believe in God" just out of curiosity. I wasn't that serious thoug. A year ago I was definitly serious about trying to stop believing in God and said I hated Him and didn't believe in Him and stuff. There's been other things to I guess. I'm not sure if I ever completely stopped believeing or not. Anyways not sure.

Selenah, you are still very young, so what said as a child was said in childish ignorance. I'm not excusing sin, but don't torment yourself about things that you did as a child. Look to Christ now as your all in all. If you are saved, then all sins; past, present, and future are forgiven you for Jesus' sake. And don't think that you have committed the unpardonable sin. People who commit that sin have no desire for the things of God whatsoever, they are happy without Christ and are not worried that they have offended Him in some way. The very fact that you are still seeking the things of God prove that you have not committed that sin.
Satan loves to put thoughts into our heads that even we know are ridiculous, just to discourage us. Don't fall for his schemes. When the thoughts come, just ignore them. Turn to God's word and prayer. If you continually do that, you will notice the thoughts lessen. Satan will first trouble you buy making you think that you committed a sin against God by not believing in Him, then he will proceed to torment you by bringing the same accusation against you, "that you couldn't be saved because you denied God." It is a common trick to keep God's people feeling unsaved and guilty. It makes us look to what we have done, instead of looking to what Christ has done for us.
Keep looking up, not inward. Jesus is our righteousness and He delights to hear our prayers and troubles. He knows the schemes of satan better than any of us possibly could. Remember, satan tried to get Jesus to deny His own Father, so how much more will he attack us weak humans!!!! But we have Jesus' strength to oppose satan.
God bless, my friend.

Tom

 

[GreenNnice]

Well there were a few times. When I was really little someone told me to never say that I don't believe in God because it would open up my mind so...stupid me said "I don't believe in God" just out of curiosity. I wasn't that serious thoug. A year ago I was definitly serious about trying to stop believing in God and said I hated Him and didn't believe in Him and stuff. There's been other things to I guess. I'm not sure if I ever completely stopped believeing or not. Anyways not sure.

=======
Sel, the Lord leads, you are seeking Him, and, He is there for you right now in so many ways, through so many people.

God is Love, milady. Listen to everyone on here, take notes, but then throw all that newfound knowledge to Heaven , in prayer. God will give you the answers to all your questions, in wonderful, pumping, Love-
ballady, beaty melody . Don't stop believin', even IF you were to have to go to a far off place, real, like Chicago , or, imagined. Go there, the Lord leads, only Him, put your trust, faith, hope, in Him. Your life, it is a journey of forever, faithfully go only with Him, girl. You go, seniorita, learn however He teaches you of forgiveness and Love, both acts given ALL by overcoming 'life' act after the death on the cross of Jesus.

Only Him, only choose to live your life for Him and promise to forsake your past ways in repentance to Him and then strive to live your life in His grace and mercy, attained by your faith in Him. Only Him.

For God so loved The world that He gave His only begotten Son (Jesus), that whosoever ( anyone) believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

Sel, you can have a life that lasts, not perish, last, with Him, in Heaven after you die.
What can be more bonita than that

Blessings, young lady

In Him, green

 

[GreenNnice]

Selenah, you are still very young, so what said as a child was said in childish ignorance. I'm not excusing sin, but don't torment yourself about things that you did as a child. Look to Christ now as your all in all. If you are saved, then all sins; past, present, and future are forgiven you for Jesus' sake. And don't think that you have committed the unpardonable sin. People who commit that sin have no desire for the things of God whatsoever, they are happy without Christ and are not worried that they have offended Him in some way. The very fact that you are still seeking the things of God prove that you have not committed that sin.
Satan loves to put thoughts into our heads that even we know are ridiculous, just to discourage us. Don't fall for his schemes. When the thoughts come, just ignore them. Turn to God's word and prayer. If you continually do that, you will notice the thoughts lessen. Satan will first trouble you buy making you think that you committed a sin against God by not believing in Him, then he will proceed to torment you by bringing the same accusation against you, "that you couldn't be saved because you denied God." It is a common trick to keep God's people feeling unsaved and guilty. It makes us look to what we have done, instead of looking to what Christ has done for us.
Keep looking up, not inward. Jesus is our righteousness and He delights to hear our prayers and troubles. He knows the schemes of satan better than any of us possibly could. Remember, satan tried to get Jesus to deny His own Father, so how much more will he attack us weak humans!!!! But we have Jesus' strength to oppose satan.
God bless, my friend.

Tom

====
Amen, tombro.

The Enemy , yes, that maker of lies, hoarder of deceit, thief of innocence, really does want you NOT to leave his snaky way of thinking, he wants to tell you that you are more pwerful with living a life in him. But, Sel, don't choose his lies! Don't believe him, that snake!
Choose Christ. Peace will rush, rush into you like a river the MOMENT you do.
Yes!
Choose Life.
Choose Truth.
Choose His way, the narrow path, at 16, your so at an awesome age to accept Him. You can reach others for Christ, not sure of the exact # but when I think a teenager turns 18 and they don't believe in Christ their chance to believe becomes very difficult, harder to repent and willing to leave their junk, I guess is the thinking of that 90%+ # of teens that forever stay lost (don't believe in Christ) after turning 18.

Be found, the strength of Jesus, as tombo noted, will run through you like a river every step of The way. And, when you believe and receive and confess your past sins, God forgets them, forevermore

 

[Zilla64007]

Yes, God will not deny his own word. That's why I believe what Jesus said in John 6:37, and 6:44...

John 6:37
37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 6:44
44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Jesus says that those the father gives will come, and he won't cast out. Oh darn, there's no way to get out!

John 6:44, Jesus says that the one who is drawn "...sent me draws him..." will be raised up by Jesus in the Resurrection of the dead.


Romans 6:5
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.


I believe Jesus. Why don't you? Paul is reaffirming the Doctrine of Perseverence of the Saints when he writes Timothy, and also the reliability of God.

i believe Jesus when He said those who endure to the end shall be saved. I dont believe you.
i reject all points of Calvinism... and im happy selenah has not given in to the antinomian heresy of once saved always saved

 

[GreenNnice]

i believe Jesus when He said those who endure to the end shall be saved. I dont believe you.
i reject all points of Calvinism... and im happy selenah has not given in to the antinomian heresy of once saved always saved

//////()////
Cant you bicker somewhere else than where a young lady is trying decide if she wants to believe in Christ.

Why do you need to be on this thread at this time doing that kind of thing ?

God bless you for your doing your best to follow Him, Z., I know you mean well, I know our convictions are so real. But try, for now, to convict and tell stance of salvation somewhere else , thank you.

 

[Zilla64007]

selenah, forfeiting one's salvation does not happen overnight... it takes a choice of turning away from God for good. the Bible does give examples of those who have denied the Lord, thus losing their salvation.

and what all of these OSAS-ers and Calvinists wont tell you is that this little precious doctrine of theirs never existed in the early church...
if it WAS biblical, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, and Tatian would of OPENLY spoken about it...

they teach the exact opposite

 

[Zilla64007]

//////()////
Cant you bicker somewhere else than where a young lady is trying decide if she wants to believe in Christ.

Why do you need to be on this thread at this time doing that kind of thing ?

God bless you for your doing your best to follow Him, Z., I know you mean well, I know our convictions are so real. But try, for now, to convict and tell stance of salvation somewhere else , thank you.

no, i wont. i wont stand for Calvinists to spread their Gnostic putrid filth to someone such as selenah...

selenah, if you want to know what the Word says, don't use these people as commentary... don't even use me...

your best bet is to get off of these forums, and sit and read the Bible, with a concordance, and the Holy Spirit for guidance.

i pray you find it in your heart to do such that

 

[Elizabeth619]

Selenah, I see alot of hostility in this thrad, and I hope you are able to read these posts with an open mind and heart. The bottom line is once you become a child of God you are HIS. No one can take that from you, but you can fall. We all sin and make mistakes, which is why Jesus saved us. We have the gift of repentance. Just because someone becomes a Christian does not make them perfect. We still fall short. I sin everyday, but I ask Gof for forgiveness.
The only advice I will give you is study the bible on your own. Read it, learn from it. All the answers are there. Don't depend on men to tell you about your salvation. Look toward God for that and he will give you the answer.

 

[Zilla64007]

on that note, i will say one last thing, selenah:

you dont have to sin.
you can say "no" to sin.
you dont have to sin every second of every day.
the Lord gives you the willpower and the conviction to say "no".
listen to that conviction. use that willpower.

 

[GreenNnice]

no, i wont. i wont stand for Calvinists to spread their Gnostic putrid filth to someone such as selenah...

selenah, if you want to know what the Word says, don't use these people as commentary... don't even use me...

your best bet is to get off of these forums, and sit and read the Bible, with a concordance, and the Holy Spirit for guidance.

i pray you find it in your heart to do such that

()()()()()()
Sigh.......



Sorry, too, that I used your quote as an example, Z, if that offended you, it was not the only quote that could cause Sel to question who these christians are, it was just the one I grabbed. Hindsight, I wouldn't have used anyone's quote above my ask to keep Love on your heart with the knowing that a person not knowing whether they want to believe or not was asking questions.

God bless, Z. May God bless you for doing His will.


===
Good post, elizzy . God bless you, milady, for your good work done all over c.c. and wherever Lord leads you to follow His will

 

[Zilla64007]

i do love the Lord, green... the thing i dont love is heresy...

notice i call the dotctrine "putrid filth", because thats what gnosticism is... it comes from the spirit of antichrist

 

[Tombo]

i believe Jesus when He said those who endure to the end shall be saved. I dont believe you.
i reject all points of Calvinism... and im happy selenah has not given in to the antinomian heresy of once saved always saved

I can hear Zillarella singing.....work work work, I try not to complain. Oh wait, that's Cinderlla.
Poor soul, so lost in your works gospel. So blind to the truth.
I still have hope in God that your eyes will be opened. You are still a very young Christian and have much to learn. But learn it from God's word instread of calling everything Calvinism, or OSAS. God is the one who saves, He is sovereign in everything. He owes us nothing, especially based on any works that we do.
God bless.

Tom

 

[hislastwalk]

The answer is, no.

You can't lose your salvation.

 

[hislastwalk]

"The gospel is offensive simply because it lets you in on the secret that you have no part to play in this great salvation. It tells you that all those tickets you bought with your good works to win the lottery of God's good graces were a waste, and that all that blood, sweat, and tears you spent trying to please God didn't.amount to the hill of holy beans you thought it would amount to.

But not to fret, after the offense wears down a bit, it is followed by intense joy. A joyous hilarity that sings melodies of a God who won this salvation singlehandedly for us by a one-way ticket to a bloodied cross. It provokes thanksgiving because it relays the message that God was pleased with us all along, whether we tried to please Him or not." -my friend, Christian Erickson.

 

[Consumed]

Can someone lose salvation?
wonder how judgement day works? read the bible on judgement day what happens, if im already in then (osas type thing) ok then if i send a "excuse me note" im fine thanks Lord, no need to work out my salvation daily with fear and trembling or to endure , walk crooked paths - really???

We are, as i read it, to endure to the end, walking in His righteousness, His righteousness, be perfect in love, we are given all the teachings and moreso been blessed to be empowered to overcome for it is those who overcome, as Jesus says in revelation, who enter, not those who abused the grace given at such a price.

to walk the opposite direction, not His, grace or mockery?
Its not that i question my salvation, if i dont go daily for the manna, being the bread of life, Jesus, ill just spiritually starve myself to certain spiritual death no?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

selenah, forfeiting one's salvation does not happen overnight... it takes a choice of turning away from God for good. the Bible does give examples of those who have denied the Lord, thus losing their salvation.

and what all of these OSAS-ers and Calvinists wont tell you is that this little precious doctrine of theirs never existed in the early church...
if it WAS biblical, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, and Tatian would of OPENLY spoken about it...

they teach the exact opposite

Thats ok, She can read the bible, which can be trusted, and see a man named Christ, and men named peter paul james and john did teach it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

on that note, i will say one last thing, selenah:

you dont have to sin.
you can say "no" to sin.
you dont have to sin every second of every day.
the Lord gives you the willpower and the conviction to say "no".
listen to that conviction. use that willpower.

Now this I agree with. But also, do not think you will be perfect. Learn what sin is. If you struggle with anything, don't keep it to yourself, seek out a more mature christian you know and confide in them your struggle so they can help you. Scripture tells us to confess our sins to each other. That is so there are no hidden sins. The problem with legalistic churches is people tend to hide their sin, and don't seek help because they are afraid to get judged. Then they end up crashing and burning because there is no hope in their doctrines of works.

Zilla does not know most of us, nor what we believe, I think we have proved that. He is more interested in bashing what he has been taught people teach and not seeing what they actually teach.

If you read, ask question. But don't take what we say as gospel truth, study for yourself. When you stand in front of God, your not going to be judged by what we tell you, but what YOU believe. That is why it is so dangerous to look at hgistory outside the worde of God. Your basing your eternity on what men hundreds of years ago outside the word of God (not inspired) said. That is dangerous!