Unreasonable Teacher

[jimsun]

The Deputy Head @ our daughter's high school is just so unbelievably unapproachable & unwilling to engage in any meaningful dialogue re: problems our daughter is having with studies. She sets impossible tasks @ times which are impossible for an adult to tackle, let alone a 15 yr old. Then when we try to speak to her, knowing my legal background, this woman hides behind the school authority, almost paranoid that I'm gonna take matters to a formal level. She is undoubtedly obnoxious, unpleasant & quite condescending @ times. I think this may be because she is aware of my reputation in the legal theatre as she cannot seem to differentiate between personal & professional matters.
I feel I may have to go beyond her to get this matter heard & am praying for guidance & direction from my God.
Anyone, too, got any suggestions?
J+

 

[dmdave17]

Dear friend,

Since you are obviously a believer, I must conclude that you have approached this person in a non-aggressive, non-threatening manner. I do not know the full ramifications of this situation for your daughter, so I can't say that patiently waiting on God for His solution (the usual approach to these types of dilemmas) is an option in this case.

I can say that, in my experience, there are many people out there who "love the world" and will not be swayed by anything a believer tries to say. While I would never recommend it to anyone, I have encountered situations where I had to say, "God, I know this is not what You would want me to do, and I hope I don't regret it down the line, but I have to take some action on this matter. I ask your forgiveness in advance, and pray for your guidance in completing this task in as 'Christian' a manner as possible.".

Just keep in mind that when we step out of alignment with God's plan, we run the risk of falling all over ourselves.

Praying that God helps you with your decision.

 

[zeroturbulence]

The Deputy Head @ our daughter's high school is just so unbelievably unapproachable & unwilling to engage in any meaningful dialogue re: problems our daughter is having with studies. She sets impossible tasks @ times which are impossible for an adult to tackle, let alone a 15 yr old. Then when we try to speak to her, knowing my legal background, this woman hides behind the school authority, almost paranoid that I'm gonna take matters to a formal level. She is undoubtedly obnoxious, unpleasant & quite condescending @ times. I think this may be because she is aware of my reputation in the legal theatre as she cannot seem to differentiate between personal & professional matters.
I feel I may have to go beyond her to get this matter heard & am praying for guidance & direction from my God.
Anyone, too, got any suggestions?
J+

Tell her you will have no choice but to launch a formal complaint if she continues to refuse to work with you concerning the issues your daughter is having with the education there.

 

[jimsun]

Thank you dmdave17 & zeroturbulance for your input. As you rightly point out I am a believer & have been since age 7, however I am fearful that a point may come when our daughters well-being, in whatever manner, will dictate how I proceed with this matter.
I spoke to a friend from Church who is also a police officer & who has had to deal with troubled souls @ that school before. He assures me me that much of the problem is as I understand it ie; my performances in Court which have sparked a truly silly & irrational, imagined fear of me!
Why is it people just do not seem to believe you can be a Prosecuting Counsel & Christian (as well as a Policeman too for that matter?!).
Thanx again, guys!
J+

 

[answers]

Are you able to have your daughter switch teachers? What unreasonable demands is the teacher asking of your daughter?

 

[violakat]

I must admit, your case is one that is unusual. From a teacher's perspective (formally worked in schools), I'm not really sure why she would be scared of you, unless she were a new teacher. However, you saying she is the deputy head, leads me to believe she is not. You have two options. If your spouse is not as well known, you might see if she will meet with the teacher to express your concerns. If that does not work, then (without mentioning it to the teacher, so as not to be seen as a threat), contact the principal/dean and let them know you wish to speak with him/her and your child's teacher, letting them know that you have made several attempts to contact the teacher, but to no avail. Also, let the principal/dean know the nature of your complaint.

 

[Lucy68]

She obviously feels threatened...probably by anyone that opposes her methods. Lack of security and self-confidence maybe?

One way to get past those defenses may be to first be sympathetic to the problems she runs into everyday and express appreciation for the time and energy she puts into her job...of course you have a complaint about her methods but don't approach those until you've established a repoire with her. Then she will be more open to listen to what you have to say

And definitely pray for her! She doesn't realize how she is hurting herself by being unapproachable.

 

[mori]

As a professor myself, there are a couple of things that would put me on edge. You've mentioned that you're a lawyer, which in my office has been parent-code for "do as I say or I'll sue you." You've mentioned a police officer, which is very similar. I'm not saying that you're actually intending any of this, but almost undoubtedly she's thinking of other similar situations.

Not all dogs will bite strangers, yet some people have learned through their experiences a rational fear of entire species.

First, I rarely deal with parents and prefer to deal with the student alone, but this is a luxury of dealing with students who are legally adults. I find that parents rarely get the full story even if the child does not intend to lie. Hence, to the extent you can, let your daughter handle it. It may result in some poor grades, but these will be universal if your claim is true that the tasks are impossible. (Unless the assignments are personalized, which is another thing entirely.)

Second, if I've dealt several times with a parent and nothing satisfactory has come of it, I invite them to go to my supervisors. That is why they're there - going to a supervisor doesn't mean that the talks have failed. It's entirely possible that I'm being unfair, but a parent is probably not the one who will convince me of it.

Finally, every kid needs to "fail" sometimes. I don't mean get an F, but to come across something they can't do. My favorite graduate-level math teacher would give us tests that were 10 questions long, each of which had four parts. You were not expected to finish, but to show him what you could do in that allotted time. A lot of people didn't understand this and ended up talking to the dean.

To be honest, we haven't heard both sides of the story and I don't suspect we ever will. However, you've mentioned your legal prowess multiple times, yet the actual problems much less frequently. I would have expected a litany of "she is requiring _____, isn't that ridiculous?"

 

[jimsun]

My "legal prowess" that mori refers too is, unfortunately a product of the media & not my Agency' s Press Office. The Deputy Head is a non-teaching staff member & deals with the entire student body. I have no wish to lock horns with her but am disturbed that we are by far not the first family to feel aggrieved by her tactics. I am also worried to learn that she is responsible for student's pastoral care. Frankly, I have better things to do with my time than engage this lady in combat.
She does though set unreasonable demands & is arguably far too quick to judge & discipline. Our daughter is registered disabled with only 25% vision & will eventually lose all effective sight due to retinitis pigmentosa. This deputy head recently dragged our daughter into an examination room & attempted to force our daughter to sit an exam paper on which she couldn't even distinguish the print fonts. It was the intervention of the invigilator that created some semblance of order.
After I raised this matter, informally, with her this lady then sent me a questionnable & quite threatening e-mail, threatening various actions by the LEA. However I think she has just realised the gravity of her mistake. She has assumed she could, rightly, shelter behind the school & it's governors on a matter in school - which of course it was, until she sent me the e-mail, outside the protection of school & it's authority.
Her problem is, simply, fear of what happens next as sending correspondence of threat & menace in this way makes the LEA, school & it's governors answerable. As other parents, etc. appear to have suffered in the same way this is a matter that has to be addressed for the potential of students to be kept safe.

 

[violakat]

As a professor myself, there are a couple of things that would put me on edge. You've mentioned that you're a lawyer, which in my office has been parent-code for "do as I say or I'll sue you." You've mentioned a police officer, which is very similar. I'm not saying that you're actually intending any of this, but almost undoubtedly she's thinking of other similar situations.

Not all dogs will bite strangers, yet some people have learned through their experiences a rational fear of entire species.

First, I rarely deal with parents and prefer to deal with the student alone, but this is a luxury of dealing with students who are legally adults. I find that parents rarely get the full story even if the child does not intend to lie. Hence, to the extent you can, let your daughter handle it. It may result in some poor grades, but these will be universal if your claim is true that the tasks are impossible. (Unless the assignments are personalized, which is another thing entirely.)

Second, if I've dealt several times with a parent and nothing satisfactory has come of it, I invite them to go to my supervisors. That is why they're there - going to a supervisor doesn't mean that the talks have failed. It's entirely possible that I'm being unfair, but a parent is probably not the one who will convince me of it.

Finally, every kid needs to "fail" sometimes. I don't mean get an F, but to come across something they can't do. My favorite graduate-level math teacher would give us tests that were 10 questions long, each of which had four parts. You were not expected to finish, but to show him what you could do in that allotted time. A lot of people didn't understand this and ended up talking to the dean.

To be honest, we haven't heard both sides of the story and I don't suspect we ever will. However, you've mentioned your legal prowess multiple times, yet the actual problems much less frequently. I would have expected a litany of "she is requiring _____, isn't that ridiculous?"

Mori, do you work with seniors, or college students? You said since they were basically adult, so I was curious. I could see you not having interaction with college students parents, as they need to learn to be independent, but with seniors in high school, not so sure about this. But, then, I generally don't work with seniors. I know, when I was in the public school system, we were encouraged to contact parents on a regular basis, like at least once a grading parent, and especially if the child was failing, or this was some kind of discipline problem and any time the child did something that was really fantastic and brag worthy. And since I'm in the private sector, now, I certainly have to maintain contact with parents, to make sure they know how their child is doing.

 

[violakat]

My "legal prowess" that mori refers too is, unfortunately a product of the media & not my Agency' s Press Office. The Deputy Head is a non-teaching staff member & deals with the entire student body. I have no wish to lock horns with her but am disturbed that we are by far not the first family to feel aggrieved by her tactics. I am also worried to learn that she is responsible for student's pastoral care. Frankly, I have better things to do with my time than engage this lady in combat.
She does though set unreasonable demands & is arguably far too quick to judge & discipline. Our daughter is registered disabled with only 25% vision & will eventually lose all effective sight due to retinitis pigmentosa. This deputy head recently dragged our daughter into an examination room & attempted to force our daughter to sit an exam paper on which she couldn't even distinguish the print fonts. It was the intervention of the invigilator that created some semblance of order.
After I raised this matter, informally, with her this lady then sent me a questionnable & quite threatening e-mail, threatening various actions by the LEA. However I think she has just realised the gravity of her mistake. She has assumed she could, rightly, shelter behind the school & it's governors on a matter in school - which of course it was, until she sent me the e-mail, outside the protection of school & it's authority.
Her problem is, simply, fear of what happens next as sending correspondence of threat & menace in this way makes the LEA, school & it's governors answerable. As other parents, etc. appear to have suffered in the same way this is a matter that has to be addressed for the potential of students to be kept safe.

Since you're a lawyer, I'm assuming you already know to document everything. I am surprised that a non-teacher can actually assign work to students. But then, I guess, since she is the deputy head, she can insist on certain regulations. I think Mori has mentioned one thing though, that I think would help us get a better idea of the situation. Can you give us a description of one of the assignments she assigns? And for what grade level?

 

[mori]

Mori, do you work with seniors, or college students? You said since they were basically adult, so I was curious.

College students, mostly incoming freshmen. By law, we're prohibited from discussing an adult student's grades with anybody, including the people paying the bills, without the student's consent. This is for the protection of the student more than anybody, I learned after seeing a mother slap her child for skipping my classes and lying about her F. :-(

Students don't tend to understand this, though, and nine times out of ten, I know that when I see a parent in my doorway, it ends poorly for the student. We tend to be portrayed as... well, some of the above words, but in most cases it's not the case.

Having read Jimsun's response, though, I recognize that this had already moved far outside of the classroom. It's at this point as an educator that I'd do all correspondence by email, maintain a flawless paper trail, and speak only through intermediaries.

 

[psychomom]

This may be something you've already considered, but...have you thought of homeschooling?
There are so many parents who choose this option that support groups, sports teams, group activities of all kinds are out there.

My sister made this choice when she became weary of dealing with school officials who felt they had more rights regarding her kiddos than she did.

You and your daughter will be in my prayers! <3 ~ellie

 

[violakat]

This may be something you've already considered, but...have you thought of homeschooling?
There are so many parents who choose this option that support groups, sports teams, group activities of all kinds are out there.

My sister made this choice when she became weary of dealing with school officials who felt they had more rights regarding her kiddos than she did.

You and your daughter will be in my prayers! <3 ~ellie

While I'm not sure if Ireland is one of the places, there are some countries that do prohibit homeschooling. Also, many countries, and even some states in the US create laws that make it difficult to home school. So this might not be a viable option for Jimsun. However if he is interested in doing that, he needs to see if there is a home school network system near him, and get information from them about how he should proceed. That last is the first thing I tell parents who want to home school their children, to get in contact with a support system.

 

[zeroturbulence]

My "legal prowess" that mori refers too is, unfortunately a product of the media & not my Agency' s Press Office. The Deputy Head is a non-teaching staff member & deals with the entire student body. I have no wish to lock horns with her but am disturbed that we are by far not the first family to feel aggrieved by her tactics. I am also worried to learn that she is responsible for student's pastoral care. Frankly, I have better things to do with my time than engage this lady in combat.
She does though set unreasonable demands & is arguably far too quick to judge & discipline. Our daughter is registered disabled with only 25% vision & will eventually lose all effective sight due to retinitis pigmentosa. This deputy head recently dragged our daughter into an examination room & attempted to force our daughter to sit an exam paper on which she couldn't even distinguish the print fonts. It was the intervention of the invigilator that created some semblance of order.
After I raised this matter, informally, with her this lady then sent me a questionnable & quite threatening e-mail, threatening various actions by the LEA. However I think she has just realised the gravity of her mistake. She has assumed she could, rightly, shelter behind the school & it's governors on a matter in school - which of course it was, until she sent me the e-mail, outside the protection of school & it's authority.
Her problem is, simply, fear of what happens next as sending correspondence of threat & menace in this way makes the LEA, school & it's governors answerable. As other parents, etc. appear to have suffered in the same way this is a matter that has to be addressed for the potential of students to be kept safe.

I hope that you and the other parents get together and successfully expose this person for who she really is and get her out of that position where she certainly does not belong. If this was in the US, I'm sure she and the school would have been sued by now.

 

[psychomom]

Violakat, you were absolutely right to correct me! Thanks.
I actually did check HSLDA's website for regualtions for homeschooling in Ireland, and found it's somewhat easier than in my state of NY, which is among the 4 most difficult states in the US in which to homeschool. ( and we've been doing just that for 25 years. but I'm not one of "those homeschoolers" who thinks parents who don't choose it are "bad". )

It is NOT for everyone. I honestly think parents almost have to be called by God to homeschool. There are a myriad of reasons to do it, and just as many not to. I meant it merely as a possible alternative, and apologize to you, jimsun, if it seemed to be more than that.

Wishing you well in this difficult situation, and praying for God's blessing for you in all things~ellie

 

[violakat]

Violakat, you were absolutely right to correct me! Thanks.
I actually did check HSLDA's website for regualtions for homeschooling in Ireland, and found it's somewhat easier than in my state of NY, which is among the 4 most difficult states in the US in which to homeschool. ( and we've been doing just that for 25 years. but I'm not one of "those homeschoolers" who thinks parents who don't choose it are "bad". )

It is NOT for everyone. I honestly think parents almost have to be called by God to homeschool. There are a myriad of reasons to do it, and just as many not to. I meant it merely as a possible alternative, and apologize to you, jimsun, if it seemed to be more than that.

Wishing you well in this difficult situation, and praying for God's blessing for you in all things~ellie

The only reason I even realized about the difficulties, was that someone who lived in Germany at one time told me they could not home school children there.

Personally, I think if you can home school, then do so. If not, then that's why we have private and public schools. And like you said, it's not for everyone.

Also, I don't think you sounded like you were trying to push him, but only give a suggestion.