Marijuana

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Persei

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I was just wondering if there were any Christians here that smoke marijuana. I have smoked cannabis for several years and I really do not feel guilty about it. As far as I know there is nothing in the Bible that suggests that it is sinful (I don't think the authors of the Bible had ever even heard of smoking pot!)
I know the evils of alcohol all too well after having a few too many over the years and yet alcohol is used as a sacrament in most sects of Christianity (as far as I know). In my opinion marijuana is much better for you than alcohol and does not lead to a loss of inhibitions. I don't think I would ever make a decision while high that I wouldn't make while sober, the same cannot be said for getting drunk.
Just wondering what your feelings on it are. Also I'd like to know what your feelings are on marijuana being used medicinally. I have Crohn's disease and can legally smoke and grow marijuana in order to treat my chronic pain and loss of appetite (though I don't grow it myself).
 
I was just wondering if there were any Christians here that smoke marijuana. I have smoked cannabis for several years and I really do not feel guilty about it. As far as I know there is nothing in the Bible that suggests that it is sinful (I don't think the authors of the Bible had ever even heard of smoking pot!)
I know the evils of alcohol all too well after having a few too many over the years and yet alcohol is used as a sacrament in most sects of Christianity (as far as I know). In my opinion marijuana is much better for you than alcohol and does not lead to a loss of inhibitions. I don't think I would ever make a decision while high that I wouldn't make while sober, the same cannot be said for getting drunk.
Just wondering what your feelings on it are. Also I'd like to know what your feelings are on marijuana being used medicinally. I have Crohn's disease and can legally smoke and grow marijuana in order to treat my chronic pain and loss of appetite (though I don't grow it myself).

do you think people didnt take mind altering substances back then??? My brother has chrons and ive never heard of being able to smoke weed in order to treat that....
 
do you think people didnt take mind altering substances back then??? My brother has chrons and ive never heard of being able to smoke weed in order to treat that....

Obviously I know that people took mind-altering substances in Biblical times. I've heard arguments that beer was the original reason for the development of agricultural societies. I was referring to cannabis in particular, which while used medicinally in China thousands of years ago had not spread to the middle-east. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. I know that hashish became quite popular and prominent in those areas at some point but this was mostly after the establisment of the Christian faith, AFAIK.

You are American and legal pot is quite difficult for Americans to obtain, or so I've heard. Not so in Canada, just so you know.

The prescription drugs I take to control my Chron's disease are apo-prednisone and azathioprine supplemented with calcium and vitamin D. These drugs treat the actual flare ups and reduce my body's tendency to attack itself whenever I eat but they come at a cost. Prednisone is highly addictive and is not a good long term treatment as it causes osteoperosis (the reason for my calcium supplements). I will have to end my prednisone use in a month or two. The azathioprine is an immunosuppressant so as long as I am on it it I have increased risks of infection and illness due to the low white blood cell count it gives me. It's also known to cause pancreatis (people have rarely died from azathioprine related pancreatis) and could possibly have some effect on birth defects if I ever choose to have a baby.

Does any of that sounds fun to you? To top it off, all they do is treat my flare-ups and do nothing for my symptoms (which are the worst part of Chron's) like the extreme pain I have after eating and the loss of appetite associated w/ Crohn's. The only painkillers I've ever been given (besides cannabis) have been opiates which are HIGHLY addictive and not a good long term choice to deal with pain.

Pot makes me want to eat and it totally helps with the pain. I would recommend it to your brother.

What I'm really looking to discuss, though, is marijuana usage from an Christian point of view: the ethics and morality of it.
 
I never implied any of that sounded fun..... so not sure where your gettin that from.................... anyways, my personal stand point is that its wrong......I think for things like this...... each individual should seek god on the matter and do what he or she feels like god says to do
 
Yeah sorry for jumping the gun there. I was sort of expecting a hostile response as it's what I've normally encountered from people when I explain my pot usage. I tip my hat to you
 
no i wouldnt be hostile towards you! I'm not one for casting judgment on people.... god knows ive been there done that
 
Studies have shown that a marijuana cigarette is harsher on your lungs than a tobacco cigarette. Besides that I believe it leads to other drug use. It is illegal here in the United States for legitimate reasons (in the same way other drugs are illegal- crack,cocaine, meth..etc). I would be careful what your suggesting for others just because you condone it for your own life. (especially the young people).

I peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

eph 5:18 18And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Yeah, I wouldn't suggest people smoke just to get baked and messed up (though admittedly that was why I started back in high school). I would recommend it to anyone suffering from the pain associated with a GI disorder though.

Admittedly I am not the best role model regarding substance use. I have experimented with many drugs, though I steer clear from addictive drugs (except alcohol, caffeine and tobacco). I do think that some chemicals have a lot to offer so long as they are used responsibly, like anything. Moderation is key. I also think that some drugs actually have the potential to bring you closer to God or at least open your mind to possibilities you haven't considered. I was a staunch life-long atheist (raised without religion) until I first started experimenting with LSD, which really opened my mind to the idea that everything is connected and that the universe must have been designed and have a creator. One of my most peaceful moments and one when I felt closest to God was when I was on LSD and sitting on top of a cliff by the sea watching the sunrise. I could feeling the overwhelming feeling of interconnectedness that I describe as God. I could see His work and the beauty of His creation . As the mist rose from the sea and enveloped me I realized that the rock I was sitting on, the grass that covered it, the mist, the ocean and my self were all just small components of a larger more beautiful thing. It was then that I had a startling revelation concerning the explanation of evil in a world created by a benevolent and omnipotent God.

I was thinking of the writings of St. Augustine (Confessions in particular). For so long I had wondered how God could let there be evil in the world. Why would a omnipotent being allow evil to exist? If God is the one creator and he is benevolent why did he create evil? I realized that everything in the universe is a part of God's creation and taken on a whole it is wholly good. Evil does not exist, not in the same way that God's Creation does (which is good). What we describe as evil is merely the absence of good or the use of human free will (which God gave us and is good) to take something good that God created and use it for a corrupted purpose. A rock, for example, is part of God's creation and is by definition good. That doesn't mean that I can't take a rock and break someone's window with it or harm someone else. This is an example of human free will corrupting the goodness of Creation for malicious purposes. Does the fact that I could hurt you with a rock (or even the fact that I did hurt someone with a rock) make rocks evil? No, of course not. Is the man who threw the rock evil? No, because he is also part of God's creation and must be good by definition. Would it have been better if the did not throw the rock? I think so. In this way evil can be viewed as the lesser of two goods. Something can be more good (excuse the ****ty grammar) than something else and so the lesser good can seem evil by comparison.

The secret is that if you view all of Creation as a whole and acknowledge that all of Creation is inherently good to some degree then you must acknowledge that the universe is a very good place, composed entirely of good and not evil. I think a lot of what people describe as evil in the world is really only what inconveniences them or affects them negatively, but this is a selfish way to think. From our limited perspective there might seem to be evil in the world, but this is why we have to open our minds to possibilities beyond the realm of our own experience in order to progress peacefully to a better future.

I realize that this post is long as **** and so I don't blame you if you didn't read it all (though if you did I'd love to hear what you think). I am not advocating drug use, but I am stating my belief that there is nothing inherently evil about it and that a lot of good can come from certain chemicals if used responsibly. In my mind there is a distinct difference between drug use and drug abuse. I also acknowledge that there are many drugs that have no value and nothing to offer, such as meth (which I know is all but an epidemic in certain parts of the States), heroin, coke and a few others. However I think that when used moderately and responsibly by adults (drugs are not for kids!) they can bring great insight and help bring you closer to your spiritual side.
 
It is my personal belief that "pot" is wrong. I have tried it and it impaires my judgement, and I want to be ready for the Lord when he comes back. That beng said if you are taking pot to deal with pain then I hold nothing against you
 
I have said this before in a similar forum....The bible says to honor your vessel and to keep it clean of harmful things..marijuana kills brain cells and has a negative effect on your lung operation...it also destroys the ability to have long term memory.

the bible also says to abide by the laws of the land, and unless you live in a state that it is legal, you are knowingly sinning.
 
I have said this before in a similar forum....The bible says to honor your vessel and to keep it clean of harmful things..marijuana kills brain cells and has a negative effect on your lung operation...it also destroys the ability to have long term memory.

the bible also says to abide by the laws of the land, and unless you live in a state that it is legal, you are knowingly sinning.

Well it is legal for me to use it as I use it medicinally. Also I fee that to not use it and live a life of pain and torment is disrespectful of the body given to me by God. I think God would approve of what I do as He doesn't want me to be in pain. He would probably not approve of recreational use (or maybe he would. Does he approve of alcohol consumption? I know many Christians who drink).

Also, I have a vapourizer, which completely eliminates any harm done to the lungs as the herb is not burned it's just heated up to a temperature where it releases the active ingredient. Though admittedly I do also smoke marijuana the traditional way. In that way I am being a little disresepctful to my body, but no more than a smoker or a person having a few drinks. For those saying that a marijuana cigarette is more harmful than a regular cigarette, consider the fact that the average marijuana user doesn't smoke nearly as many joints as a cigarette smoker smokes cigs in a day.
 
Job suffered torment and pain for many years, but you don't hear of him taking pain killers or smoking herbs to lessen the pain...no, he sat there and praised God for every "storm" that came his way....He remained faithful throughout all his trials and never had complained about pain and misery.
 
Persei--

People like you really confound me....I still have a dear friend that is caught in the pit of marijuana, not knowing it is wrong...but drugs are like any other sin...! Which in the beginning your conscience is learned to what is good and what is evil...but after abuses, the conscience becomes defiled...thinking that 'why is such and such sinful'? It is truly a revisit to that forbidden tree--the knowledge of good and evil...because the righteous will stay clear of that defiled road, but those warped, do not even hear the warning signs...but they justify what they do...for whatever reason and no reason at all...

I know this because I was a philsophy major in high school and for some reason a lot of kids that experimented with marijuana and drugs would have good insights on certain things--and many philosophers seem to dabble with this garbage...

But it always made them unstable like a tree's leaves in the winter...which is pofound, but also dead and about to fall no matter how hard it holds to the tree...

Bad analogy...let me try this again...People who experiment with drugs or do them...are NEVER spiritually totally there...It is like talking to someone one moment and then a ghost the next moment...and when you fight for those people it is like the greatest torment...because you will be talking to them and then their soul will vanish into the darkness of their existence...where only the LORD can find them...

I hope this helps...drugs ruin the soul!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus is holy...
tony
 
Job suffered torment and pain for many years, but you don't hear of him taking pain killers or smoking herbs to lessen the pain...no, he sat there and praised God for every "storm" that came his way....He remained faithful throughout all his trials and never had complained about pain and misery.

I'm sorry but I really don't buy this. I don't think God wants us to suffer. If you sprained your wrist would you choose to not set it and endure the pain? If you were sick would you not take antibiotics to cure it? I am a Christian but I am not a Christian Scientist - I believe in the power of medicine to heal and I don't think God sees it as a sin. The fact is that I have been prescribed cannabis as a medicine by my doctor. Cannabis not only gives me an appetite (I would barely be able to eat one meal a day without it), but it also cures my pain AND stops my small intestine from swelling up so much that my entire gastrointestinal tract is blocked off. This has happened to me twice and I have been told by my doctors that it is the equivalent pain of childbirth, not to mention that I could die from it if not treated with steroids to reduce the inflammation. I need to eat to live and I make no apologies for taking a medicine that
My only other options besides drug treatment would be surgery - to have 12 cm of my small intestine removed. This would require me to have at least 2 months off work. Eventually I will probably have the surgery, but the truth is I honestly cannot afford it. I know, I know, I'm Canadian and wed have free (****ty) healthcare, but I mean that I can't afford to miss the time from work. I have bills and loans to pay.

People have been using medicines and drugs to treat many ailments for airs. In 1800s and colonial times they used brandy and liquor to treat pain (even for major surgeries). The more refined our medical science become the better we are able to treat pain and injury. In the first and second World Wars morphine was used to treat basically everything, to huge deriment (morphine and opiates in general are extremely physically addictive).

Let me just put something out there:
Everyone who has replied has been American, except for thefightinglamb, who I guess is Swedish. I have no idea what the laws are in Sweden, so this is mostly addressed to the yanks, but I know that cannabis is illegal in the United States. Don't you think that it's possible that you guys have a limited perspective based on your historical and cultural circumstances? Cannabis is illegal now, sure, but it wasn't the case prior to 1906 (at the earliest). Before that, farmers were required by law to grow cannabis as it is such a useful crop (not for medicinal purposes, but in many fabrics, paper, etc). Cannabis was mostly banned at the same time your country banned alcohol under the prohibition. Let me remind you that George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin all grew cannabis and encouraged its production. The first ever American paper mill was started by Ben Franklin and the paper was made exclusively from cannabis. The difference is that alcohol was made legal again and cannabis was kept illegal. The reason marijuana was kept illegal and alcohol was brought back was not that they suspected that marijuana was any worse for you than alcohol - it was due to extreme pressure from the American timber magnate William Hearst, who used his sway to keep marijuana illegal for his own personal profit, as hemp-derived paper is exorbitantly less expensive to produce than paper made from timber. This is essentially analogous to large pharmaceutical companies banning the production and sale of cheaper (but chemically identical) no-name medicines just so they can churn out a greater profit.

The government is not God, it's composed of ordinary human beings just like you and me. Many laws are arbitrary and all laws change over time. The only unchanging principles we should follow in life (IMO) are those given to us by God. Youngartist, you say that the Bible tells you to abide by the laws of the land, but what if you had raised in the Third Reich or in an apartheid South Africa? Better yet, what if you had been born in the good ol' USA just a few decades ago? Would you have endorsed the racist policies of segregation and apartheid simply because they were law? I hope not, because though segregation was legal and endorsed by the state, it is wrong and morally bankrupt. In my opinion the only immorality comes from disobedience of God, not disobedience to the government.

As Christians I am sure you have all read or studied the Bible and so I'm certain you are aware that the Bible has undergone many modifications in its history and (sadly) has been used as a tool or political power and persuasion to gain control over the masses. The statement to abide by the law of land is propaganda that was useful to gain power over the ignorant and uneducated masses of Biblical (and even all pre-industrial, to an extent) societies, because the lacked the sufficient knowledge/power/rights to question whether or not the laws their Kings, Emperors and politicians created were ethical.

thefightinglamb -
I am sorry to hear about your friend. Marijuana has not impeded me though, at least in an academic sense. I have a 3.8 GPA and am nearly done my first university degree. Though I am not majoring in philosophy (I didn't know that it was possible to major in a faculty in high school?) I have completed several post-secondary courses in philosophy. Nothing as exhaustive as a full-blown philosophy degree but I am most likely more read in the field than you if you only studied it in high school (I truly mean no offense by this, and correct me if I am wrong). I think that if you were to talk to me you would definitely not describe me as "not being all there". I don't go to school or work stoned (obviously this is a stupid idea). Believe me, I know the pain and torment that drug use can bring as I've seen many people struggle with physical addictions to things like cocaine and psychological addictions to things like MDMA. These sort of addictions cripple one's willpower and prevent one from being able to make moral decisions as all priorities beyond getting high come second place. I am not physically addicted to cannabis (this is impossible) and I am not psychologically addicted to it in that my desire to use it does not stem from a desire to tune out or to get high, but a desire to live pain-free. In a way, yes, you could describe me as dependent on cannabis as I use it to treat chronic pain and give me an appetite, but is this really worse than a diabetic being "dependent" on their insulin or a depressed person being "dependent" on MAOI's or SSRI's? I don't think so, and I don't think it's too much for me to want to live with the same quality of life as a healthy person, especially when this is a possibility for me through a combination of medications.

My opinions on this matter are clearly in opposition to many of yours but I think this is a productive conversation and I just want to say that I am not trying to antagonize anyone here or start a flame war.
 
I studied philsophy for years in college in a secular school....as I was not following Christ at the time , though I did know Him, I was very whimsical back then...

You did not comment on how drugs, marijuana included, make people neither here nor there...but make everyone "spaced" out...marijuana does this sometimes more than the other drugs even in daily life...and cause people to stop 'caring'...

As you said, drugs have an affect on the mind and morals of people...they can be gateways...for example, if you have done all the drugs you say you have, then perhaps your mind and heart have been warped from the times you have done that...

In college, I had a good friend that did quite a few drugs...who was a philsophy major...and he would always decribe his 'inner journies and struggles with God' whenever He did them...but after He became a Christian, He gave up them all...

And His soul was changed....He was no longer the 'neither here nor there' person, but was sincere, true, and it truly was amazing the change the Lord did in his life...

Philosophy is useless to a large degree...so I could almost let you have 'the you know more than me' card...but I do not think that is true...I know extensively certain people...but also less extensively the whole 'slew' of thoughts that have governed reasoning and its development throughtout history...all thayt matters is being humble and following Christ, and what you discover based on this...

Don't you think there is a difference between the Lord crucified and the Lord crucified, feeling nothing, because He is high?
Obviously there is...

God bless and may the Lord light your way
tony
 
I did not mean to specifically say "your mind is warped"...though it seems to be true since you think 'drugs' can get you closer to God...but I was just pointing out that drugs do have a tendency to be able to affect not just temporal mind perceptions, but to alter the whole worldview of a person...and truly deform the soul...
 
i am trying to turn my life over also but yes i do smoke pot on a daily bases....i have been addicted to alot harder drugs..meth...crack...and cocaine...pills...ive done just about all of em out there...but now i am clean of all of them except pot...to me pot relaxes me and takes my mind off things...and when i need to escape from the emoitonal pain its my way of doing it...i know i may be wrong and i know god may look down on it...but god also knows my heart and he knows i want to quit but god knows i need his help for i cant doit alone
 
well I understand that you use it medically and as it is being prescribed and you are using it according to instruction......i was just replying to the fact that you don't think that god wants us to suffer...I know he doesn't and you said that he would be proud of the fact that you are treating your pain...I was just saying if Job, someone of biblical time could handly pain and praise god for it, then anyone can...they didn't have medicine back then.... they had the healing power of God...and If you can put all your trust in God and have Faith, then By all means you shall be healed...he said if you ask in my name, you will recieve.

thanks for your patience, and i'm very sorry if I offended you...your not abusing yoru privilages and your abiding by the laws of the land...so i geuss i see no problem with it.
 
It is definietly wrong...Even Auburn girl says she does it to 'escape from emotional pain...'

But also think about it...

If someone was smelling all sorts of chemicals and they said I only do it 'once in a while' to get closer to God, what sane person would believe them? When they are carted off to a mental institution, they may still believe they are attained to being closer to God through drugs rather than through Jesus Christ, but all the same they will be insane...

In the same way drugs taint the user...what if someone did what I just said, never having sniffed chemicals (I am not even sure how you do that, but I have heard of people doing it), then claimed to be closer to God through it...don't you see it's an idol...you believe drugs brought you closer to God and not Jesus Christ...your mediater is drugs...tragically funny...nevermind, I mean tragically sad.
 
To the person who started this thread I am Canadian and commented earlier about this matter. So it's not just the American's talking about this. But I do agree with them. If you must use pot to deal with your pain then yes go ahead, but if pot isn't the only SAFE option then you shouldn't be doing that. About the surgery talk to people in your church maybe they can raise money for the two months when you cannot work. Maybe WCB? I would suggest surgery asap then to continue smoking pot. Like I said before I would not to be intoxicated when the Lord comes back, and he is coming back soon.
 
One quick question: If you don't disagree with drinking beer / liquor and you don't disagree with responsible drinking (maybe you do, but alcohol is pretty accepted in most Western societies) then what exactly is the difference between the recreational use of alcohol and marijuana to you? Why is one ok and not the other?

Neither of them are ok. If we are to drink wine let it only be at the Lord's supper. Alcohol is so addicting it ruins peoples live, and their families. But that is just what I believe, and I am open to arguement