Catholic Heresy (for the record)

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Ugly

Guest
I am sick of reading the term 'catholic bashing' on here. Guess what, expressing my opinion, and giving the reasons for it is not 'bashing'. I don't doubt that there are a few people on here who are bashing, as there are jerks everywhere in life. But mostly what i see is just people disagreeing with catholics and the catholics call that 'bashing'. Get over it. Its not bashing or hateful to express my belief.

Secondly, about 5 pages back i posted a question to catholics. I notice not one catholic even acknowledged the question. So i'll try it again, see if you guys still hide from it. -- Why do catholics care so much about being accepted as Christian to begin with? You're called catholics because you're catholic. Why can't you just be catholic, and let Christians be Christians? Why try to force yourself into acceptance? Go be catholic and stop trying to force yourself into Christianity. There are differences in our beliefs... and you even have a different name for your set of beliefs. Catholicism. So why are you not happy sticking with that?
 
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chesser

Guest
catholics are christians (im not Catholic BTW)
 
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SantoSubito

Guest
I am sick of reading the term 'catholic bashing' on here. Guess what, expressing my opinion, and giving the reasons for it is not 'bashing'. I don't doubt that there are a few people on here who are bashing, as there are jerks everywhere in life. But mostly what i see is just people disagreeing with catholics and the catholics call that 'bashing'. Get over it. Its not bashing or hateful to express my belief.
In my mind it's only bashing when I see the words "pagan", "of Satan", "not of God", or "evil" in the critique of Catholicism.

Secondly, about 5 pages back i posted a question to catholics. I notice not one catholic even acknowledged the question. So i'll try it again, see if you guys still hide from it. -- Why do catholics care so much about being accepted as Christian to begin with? You're called catholics because you're catholic. Why can't you just be catholic, and let Christians be Christians? Why try to force yourself into acceptance? Go be catholic and stop trying to force yourself into Christianity. There are differences in our beliefs... and you even have a different name for your set of beliefs. Catholicism. So why are you not happy sticking with that?
Well for starters for 1500 years in the West the name Catholic was never used except as describing a charteristic of the Church (universal). During that time the Church was simply that, the Church, and it's faithful were simply called Christian, and the Pope was not the Catholic Pope he was the Christian Pope. For those 1500 years we were Christianity in the West. During the Reformation there arose a need for us to differentiate ourselves from Protestants (funny that, you have a name for your beliefs as well) so we took to calling ourselves Catholic.

But in our own circle the practice of calling ourselves simply Christian still lives on. In homilies Priests never say "It is the duty of all Catholic people" they simply say "It is the duty of all Christian people". When my grandmother spoke of "Christians" it was understood that she was talking about Catholics, because if she wasn't she would have said Protestants.

Basically we care because we are Christian. Modern day Protestants have simply narrowed the definition of "Christian" to include only Protestants.
 
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GreenNnice

Guest
Okay because I answer one aspect of our faith you make an assumption that that is the only aspect I look at in my LIFE? You know nothing about who I am and what Honor I give or don't give to God. I give
ALL Honor to God, as He rightfully deserves, though imperfectly as all men.

If my church service was in a cardboard box, I would go there! But because God is All-Encompassing our faith should try to address God in Heart, Mind, Body, Soul, Spirit, Truth, Works, knowledge as well as material things, which the Catholic Faith addresses beyond any and all faiths.


Why do you honor God with 'material things?'

You know what God did to the Israelites who were busy constructing and then worshiping a golden calf statue (idol) while Moses up on mountain getting 10 commandments from God?

Smited !

Well, OK, not smited , but they would have been destroyed if Moses hadn't pleaded with God not to kill.those material 'thing' idol worshippers.


So, God likes the worship and honoring to Him done by 'material things?

No, He does not. He despises idol worship.

God wants us to Love Him, and, paying homage to Mary is IN NO WAY mentioned in scripture.

Why must you feel then that what you ADD in thought to God's Word is true??

Befuddling. Exasperating. Blasphemous.

We are neither to add to nor take away from the Bible.

Again, catholicism adds 7 books to the Bible The naivety and spitefulness to assume these EXTRA books into scripture puts judgment and confusion on God's holy , inspired writings .


Grave consequences, I think, to ones who decide this is right way to honor and worship Jesus, although I will end with one positive, the catholics do help out the poor and the needy, I think, as much as other religions, that compassion is noted. But will compassion and love of man and, rosary prayers, direct following idols and misinterpreting scripture and adding Mary's unproven, unfounded scriptural authority, and, etc., ec. heresies STILL allow you to get to Heaven?????

I don't no. But what I say mattets not, so, good for you, and, God says in scripture there is forgiveness fir your taking if you confess your blasphemies, for, far as I can tell, anyway, your heresies are not done against the Holy Spirit. (Mark 3:28-29)

But , I will not judge your final destination (Christ alone is to judge eternity and that will be on our Judgment Day ), only your condition, and, state of misunderstanding that not only are you not Christ's chosen church as you elect to say (read 2 Timothy 4:10), as I read scripture and cite from it, you, seemingly, are in danger of being when you die not Christ's :(
 
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GRA

Guest
SantoSubito said:
When my grandmother spoke of "Christians" it was understood that she was talking about Catholics, because if she wasn't she would have said Protestants.
:eek:
Do you realize that this statement labels all Protestants as non-Christians?

SantoSubito said:
Modern day Protestants have simply narrowed the definition of "Christian" to include only Protestants.
:confused:
What kind of statement is this, after making the previous statement?

There is an old saying that just may fit perfectly here:

"If that aint the pot calling the kettle black."

.

 
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Angel997

Guest
Just on the subject of praying to Mary because she's the mother of Jesus
Matt 12:46-50 " While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.
He (Jesus) replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

It might of been mentioned before... I'm not saying Catholics aren't christian i believe that as long as a person believes that Jesus died for their sin, they are a christian. I think different denominations are just different ways to bring people to the gospel none is more right than another. I just think praying to Mary for your sins isn't right... i admit however i don't know much about Catholicism
 
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kayem77

Guest
I am sick of reading the term 'catholic bashing' on here. Guess what, expressing my opinion, and giving the reasons for it is not 'bashing'. I don't doubt that there are a few people on here who are bashing, as there are jerks everywhere in life. But mostly what i see is just people disagreeing with catholics and the catholics call that 'bashing'. Get over it. Its not bashing or hateful to express my belief.
I so agree with this...it kinda reminds me of what pro-homosexuality people say. Just because we are saying that something is unbiblical doesn't mean we are hatin on the person. I don't hold anything against anyone, but I'm not gonna defend something that it's unbiblical. I don't believe in ecumenism, I don't think there are many ways, I don't believe that just believing in Jesus is okay because in that case I would still be Catholic myself. Or I could be a Mormon, or a Jehova Witness, or whatever, or I could even be a "liberal Christian" and don't care about what God likes and what he hates.

The "Protestant" churches (that's how they call us I believe) are not perfect either, not at all, I don't believe there is a perfect denomination actually. Actually not even my church is perfect, my pastor is a human who errs, but I stay because I feel the Spirit of God there :) ,because they teach the Bible and believe in living the Bible , and because I'm not perfect either. I believe the Church is a spiritual church made of imperfect believers who stumble and fail, but as long as they have their faith in Jesus, I will call them brothers and sisters. I don't defend those who preach another gospel, and there are many of those witht the protestants too, that's why we need to test everything (1Thess5:21) .

I was Catholic, my whole family is Catholic, I come from a country where Catholicism was the main religion and still is, so saying that I don't know anything or that I got it wrong or didn't understand what happened in front of my own eyes all these years is just an arrogant and ignorant statement. I know many Catholics who don't agree with practices like praying to saints or Mary, or the sacraments, but for whatever reason they still go to the RCC. I'm not God to declare who is going to Heaven or Hell, that's not my business, but I know that knowing the truth of what the Bible says helped me, so I hope knowing the truth also helps someone, at least one person in here. :).
 
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SantoSubito

Guest
Why do you honor God with 'material things?'
The same reason God commanded the Israelites to. God's temple was filled with precious things, so to are the houses of God today (albeit largely to a much lesser degree).

You know what God did to the Israelites who were busy constructing and then worshiping a golden calf statue (idol) while Moses up on mountain getting 10 commandments from God?
Which if we worshiped an image as God would be applicable. The Ancient Christian concept of veneration of images is different from that, kissing a representation of a Saint or a Cross/Crucifix is considered honoring that person by a show of respect, much in the same way my mother kisses her grandmothers picture every night.

So, God likes the worship and honoring to Him done by 'material things?
I imagine God likes the honor given by people you kiss the images of His Saints and of the Cross as a sign of respect.

No, He does not. He despises idol worship.
Exactly worship.

God wants us to Love Him, and, paying homage to Mary is IN NO WAY mentioned in scripture.
It is certainly alluded to, but first the practice of Sola Scriptura would have to be established for that to be a good basis.

Why must you feel then that what you ADD in thought to God's Word is true??
We don't add anything. To us you have simply half of God's revelation to man, with the other half being the Sacred Tradition.

We are neither to add to nor take away from the Bible.

Again, catholicism adds 7 books to the Bible The naivety and spitefulness to assume these EXTRA books into scripture puts judgment and confusion on God's holy , inspired writings .
I suggest you look into the history of the OT canon and to how we got the Bible. Then you may be singing a different tune.
 
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SantoSubito

Guest
:eek:
Do you realize that this statement labels all Protestants as non-Christians?
It doesn't really if you take it in context with the whole paragraph. She considered Protestants Christians, but felt that they are more aptly labeled Protestant. I would have no problem if people called me Catholic while acknowledging that I'm a Christian.
 

Spartacus1122

Banned [Reason: insulting CC admin in previous pos
Jun 9, 2012
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My Humble 2-Cents

If I may, as a Roman Catholic:

(and please, spare me immature, obtuse responses).

First of all, I have joined this website a few days ago, and so far the experience has been very positive, both on the forums and on the chat-rooms. I look forward to future, insightful and thought-provoking discussions with all of you.

This particular thread however, seems to be stained by many misconceptions, misunderstandings, and regrettably, speckles of "bashing". So as a Catholic, I would like to offer my own opinions and knowledge on the matter.

A quick response to Kayem77, who asked:

Why do catholics care so much about being accepted as Christian to begin with?
Catholics ARE Christians, therefore there is no such thing as trying to be accepted as so. The Catholic tradition, along with Coptics, Greek/Eastern Orthodox, etc., out-date all post-Protestanism denominations.
And now, on to the issue initially presented by RoboOp:

Dear Sir, unless you have a firm understanding of the concept of the Holy Trinity, and have read St. Thomas' "Summa Theologica", your arguments (against?) Catholicism are unfounded.

I tend to disgree with certain arguments you presented. For example, according to the Catholic doctrine, Mary was free of sin, hence why God chose her to be mother of His son Jesus. And yes, God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit are one and the same, and at the same time three separate parts of a whole (hence the concept of the Holy Trinity).

To pray to the Virgin Mary is not "heresy" nor idolatry. It is fundamentally part of Catholic/Orthodox doctrine. She is not heralded as equal to God/Christ, but she is heralded for being His virgin mother, and therefore mother of us all. Catholics, along with Orthodox and other non-protestant denominations, also have saints, and pray to these saints. Once again, this is centuries+ old tradition, long before post-Protestanism, "non-demominational" neo-Christianity.

Which brings me to my second point:

Please understand that the Evangelical movement, Born-Agains, Non-denominationals, Chrsitian-Scientists, etc.... are all forms of neo-Christianity, and therefore simply modern forms of Protestanism, where individuals or leaders of a group "go on their own way" and adopt their own doctrines and methods of worship, often to their personal liking. This means that some do not necessarily follow a specific doctrine. Therefore, to call Catholicism "heresy" is not only contradictory, it is also factually incorrect, if not also offensive. It is simply an older denominational form of Christianity (hence why there is no point in the argument "are they Christians?").

You must also understand the word "Catholic" itself (most people have no clue). It means "universal", and all people are welcomed. Therefore the sole notion that Jews, Muslims, homosexuals, Buddhists, etc. are rejected, is once again dishonest. If any of you ever visited the Vatican and St. Peter's Cathedral, you would likely see people of all ethnicities and religious backgrounds attend a Papal Mass, or visit the Cathedral and the incredible museums. Doesn't anyone recall Pope John Paul II's many encounters with people of different religions?

So with all due respect, the notion that Catholicism is heresy and deception, is simply false, regrettably dishonest, and dangerously misleading.

St. Peter and all the first martyrs who initially died at the hands of the Roman Empire were the first "stones" (Peter = stone) of the universal Church that Christ envisioned. What came later under the Holy Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, the Anglican British Empire, and post-Luter Protestanism, is simply a diversification of the Christian faith. NOT HERESY.

Kind regards,

Spartacus
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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with all due respect, the notion that Catholicism is heresy and deception, is simply false, regrettably dishonest, and dangerously misleading.
No, it is false and deceptive.

Only people of this world would accept such an abominable religion as "true"....

The only thing "dangerously misleading" is the heresy of that religion and any other that does not stand for and teach the truth of Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.
 
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damombomb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2011
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If i was lost id want someone to show me Jesus, not rituals id have to do or make it harder than it is. He said my burden is easy and my yoke is
light. Whats wrong with the simplicity in Christ. People probably don't want religion, but Jesus ( a relationship with him), if we push other things
on them, why would they want it
 
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Ugly

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Re: My Humble 2-Cents

Catholics ARE Christians, therefore there is no such thing as trying to be accepted as so.
Really? Cause right now i see a web site full of Christians saying they don't accept Catholics as Christians. Yet i see all these Catholics arguing they are. How is that not trying to be accepted?
 
Jun 24, 2010
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We should ask the same of the Catholic as we do of ourselves and others concerning Christ.

1 - Do you believe that Christ, as the Son of God, was crucified for you and shed His blood on the cross for the remission of your sins?

2 - Have you put your trust in Jesus Christ to save you, forgive you and cleanse you from your own righteousness and personal sin?

3 - Do you believe that there is no other way to be righteous or have eternal life then to receive it by faith as a gift of the grace of God?

These are questions for the heart to believe and receive by faith the gift of the Son of God, who died and gave His life for us as sinners.
 
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SantoSubito

Guest
Re: My Humble 2-Cents

Really? Cause right now i see a web site full of Christians saying they don't accept Catholics as Christians. Yet i see all these Catholics arguing they are. How is that not trying to be accepted?
Well more precisely you see certain members of a website saying that they don't accept Catholics as Christians. In particular it seems to be primarily low-church Evangelicals and Fundamentalists that reject Catholics as Christians. While those belonging to more high-church congregations (your Methodists, Presbyterians, Anglicans, Lutherans, etc.) accept Catholics as Christians.

And bringing up the rear we have your more middle of the road "not really committed to any particular type of Christianity" people that are probably split down the middle.

The way I see it it's not us struggling to be accepted as Christians, it's us arguing against your specific definition of what Christianity is.
 

PopClick

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2011
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Re: My Humble 2-Cents

In particular it seems to be primarily low-church Evangelicals and Fundamentalists that reject Catholics as Christians.
What is a "low-church" evangelical? I've never heard that term before.
 
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SantoSubito

Guest
Re: My Humble 2-Cents

What is a "low-church" evangelical? I've never heard that term before.
"Low-church" is a term used for any church that places emphasis on non-liturgical worship. Which means that their services often have extempore prayers instead of written prayers, no ritual, and mostly no set order to the service. This category includes Baptists, Pentecostals, Calvary Chapel, and pretty much all independent churches.

The opposite of this is "high-church" which is any church that has liturgical worship, set written prayers, ritual, and a rigid order to the service. This category includes all of your mainline Protestant churches and all pre-Reformation churches Catholics, Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Anglicans (Episcopalians in America), and most any church with the word "Reformed" in the title.
 
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Saint-John

Guest
Inquisitions ...through history..Jesuit order.. its in the Roman Catholic history.....not good....