TRUE GRACE MEANS YOU SIN NO MORE

[Moe]

I'm sorry, you either do not have the ability to express your thoughts correctly, or, you are one very confused person. That doesn't mean that I do not love you, however, as a minister I believe you need to do some more study in God's word. We are all sinners until the day we are glorified and not until then. May I ask what Bible you are using and if it applies, what denomination you follow? Cheers

 

[Hurricane1]

There should be no excuse for ANY sin at all. No excuses or redefinitions whatsoever. No picking and choosing. Refusing to confess sin means that one is not convicted of his sin and that his sin remains. THAT is what is deadly. Not the fact that people can and do sin. And, of course, none should say that he has "the grace of God" in order to be free to sin.

However, you also wrote in post #26 that "Grace IS NOT the same as the forgiveness of sins". I cannot agree with this. The forgiveness of sins is central to the gospel, and is always to be administered through the word and the ministry of reconciliation (i.e. confession and absolution). This forgiveness is closely tied to the redemption which was purchased in full for God's people. Eph.1:7 says that "we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace". This grace spoken of here is justifying or salvific grace, which can not be earned and which is given once and for all to God's people. To cut it short: we definetely can not excuse any sin in the name of grace. But, thanks be to God; because of His great grace and mercy there is forgiveness of sins for those who ask for it by confessing their sins (which of course includes repentance).

As for the statement "we always have the power to say no to sin through the power of the Holy Spirit" I again would be wary of how one handles the term "sin" in this wise. Remember that the context of 1Cor.10.12-13 was about the israelites and their desert trail, of which some of them fell away. The warning was against idolatry. And being tempted is not to sin. As said, I do see a huge difference between a pattern of sin, or living in sin, and sin itself as such. Saying "no" to temptations we can do, but saying "no to sin" as such, we can not. Unlike the pharisaical surface scratching, God's law cuts extremely deep, wide and sharp on that matter. None can pride themselves of being totally sin free. Those who do so are deceived.

There is NO difference between an antinomian who think his sin is no real sin from a "christian perfectionist" who think his sin is no real sin. BOTH are justifying their sin and are displeasing God in their wicked pride. BOTH are lost.

Okay, Where did I s there is any excuse for sin and that we shouldn't confess it? The reason for the statement that I made concerning grace not being the same as forgiveness is this.... My ex-wife, who recently left me for a man she met on the internet believes now that sin no longer exists because of grace. She believes that grace has covered ALL sin, no matter what your belief is and what you do. She says grace covers it all. That is the reason I said it is not the same. Yes, grace includes the ability for us to repent and be forgiven of our sins, but the operating word there is "repent".

Also, please reread 1 Corinthians 10. The whole text also refers to pagan revelry, sexual immorality, and tested the Lord God (as some do today with their wrong hearted beliefs. Temptation is temptation and Peter even says that, when we si, it's because we are led away by our own lusts. We are given the power to overcome sin. Does that mean we will never sin? Of course not. But my testimony proves that you can "make the choice" to sin or not.

As far as "Gods law" is concerned, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with true Christianity. The gentiles should never have even been exposed to it in the first place. The law is completely fulfilled and been done away with. Gods laws are now written on our hearts and in our minds. We are led by the Spirit of God, not the written law. Our obedience comes from within, not adherence to external demands. That is why I said that we can overcome sin by the power of the Holy Spirit. It's all about the heart brother.

 

[Red33]

Graces teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, and to live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11,12). When we trust in the sacrifice of Christ, God delivers us from the world and the power of darkness and translates us into the kingdom of His dear Son (). We are taken from out of the world () but we must be transformed so that we do not continue to conform to this world, as we grow in the word through grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ in the midst of a body of believers. When a believers stops growing in grace and in the knowledge of Christ, they stop loving the cross and following Christ. The first thing that happens is sin begins to rear up its ugly head and take over the flesh with all of its desires and affections. The Holy Spirit becomes grieved because sin in the heart has broken fellowship with Christ and with other believers that are Spirit-filled and are following the Lord.

That believer, no matter what setting they are in, begins to seek out fulfillment in areas of need through the flesh and not through fellowship with God through the Spirit. They are in bondage and enslaved to their emotions and must be satisfied emotionally to go on in their life. They can no longer be fulfilled and edified by the grace of God. Pleasures and others forms and desires of the flesh are pursued at any cost, even the lost of a marriage or godly relationships with those that love them and would lay their life down in a heartbeat. When this happens the devil will always accuse both parties that they are responsible for what has happened and assign blame in the areas that hurt and incapacitate each other from responding to the grace and wisdom of God.

This causes more division between each party and brings in a root of bitterness. The devil wants both parties to be occupied with the details they are experiencing to keep them from going after the throne of God to obtain mercy and find grace to help in the time of need. The devil drives the flesh to react and live in past and present wounds of negativity and self preservation to take both completely out of the will of God and accuse God that He has no power to keep them together through reconciliation. This is the strategy of the devil and his organized effort to destroy the capacity of the soul from receiving the grace of God in that situation.

 

[resurrection33]

The Grace of God, the reason God said that the law had nothing to do with him giving grace for man to be saved; is Because the law didn't come till four hundred (400+) years later......... so how can God say to someone do this or that or obey my law so you can be saved when there was NO LAW GIVING!!! So this is what the Lord God is saying how salvation is by grace. Now, we need to learn how to receive the salvation God is offering through grace. God is saying, When I decided to save mankind it was not based on what they had to do....why? because they didn't know what I wanted them to do YET. So, because I have MADE A WAY for them to not be ETERNALLY LOST, witout OWING THEM ANYTHING, CAUSE THEY DID NOT GIVE ANYTHING, NOT BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT GIVE IT, but because, THERE IS NO WAY POSSIBLE ANY MAN CAN DO ANYTHING TO TAKE AWAY WHAT ADAM DID TO THEM. THE LAW I GAVE ADAM WHEN HE BROKE IT; HE MESSED IT UP FOR ALL HIS SEED. It was not Moses law we are being redeemed from, it was Adams law. The LAW of SIN and DEATH.
Which caused all man to spiritually die............ remember, Moses law did not cause no man to loose their souls/spiritually die......... ALL WAS ALREADY DEAD!!, BEFORE MOSES LAW EVEN CAME....... THEY DIED THROUGH THE FIRST MAN ADAM, Moses Law was not for salvation................

But there was a process in Moses' law that would be used to forgive sins, Yet, it could not make man whole again... perfect, or save their souls/spirits... which forgiveness can do, but even though they were forgiven, they kept on sinning the same sins, which voided the first act of forgiveness... the Law of sacrifices ( Hebrews 9-10-11) So what God done, as He planed to do from the beginning ( when Adam sinned) was, without owing it to man he was going to give them a PROCESS to be saved: with the first part of it done already ( Jesus being the Priest, The Alter, the Lampstand/Light, The Oil/anointing, The Gate of the Temple, the Horns, the Curtain that leads to the Holy of Holies, HE WAS AND IS THE WHOLE SANCTUARY, EVERYTHING THAT WAS IN THE SANCTUARY AND EVERYTHING IT WAS MADE OF:JESUS CHRIST IS, HE HAS FULFILLED THIS PART OF THE LAW........... using the old testament sacrificial law, and token of covenant: THE BLOOD, this was done to show us the way things are going to be THROUGH THE LAW OF FAITH.... So Grace...... is the way God brought through a perfect way to save souls.......... REMEMBER THE BIBLE SAY.... WHERE THERE IS NO LAW, THERE IS NO SIN, SO IF GOD SAID NO MORE LAW, THEN YOUR SINS ARE NO LONGER SINS, THEN IF YOU LIE, CHEAT, STEAL, COMMIT IDOLATRY, ect........ God can not say No man has sinned, but we have to see the big plan of God, He gave us a law, but it is one he said He will help us to fullfill, with understanding of the nature of the flesh, giving us the Holy Spirit through the shed Blood of Christ Jesus, and ALLLLLLLLL the works he has done,,,,,,

God, has giving a law, the law of faith. yet through grace in which this law came, Man was going to STOP SINNING THE SAME SINS, NOT COMING BACK EVERY YEAR FOR THE SAME SINS TO REPENT OF............ THE HOLY SPIRIT WORKING FROM THE INSIDE OUT, CHANGING THE HEART AND MINDS, PURGING US, CLEANSING US, PREPARING US FOR THE WORLD TO COME. there is so much more....... THE GRACE OF GOD IS NOT A EASY WAY THROUGH A DOOR AND ONCE YOU STEP THROUGH THE DOOR SALVATION IS HANDED TO YOU............ GRACE IS THE DOOR THAT WAS OPENED WITHOUT YOU TOUCHING THE KNOB, BUT ONCE INSIDE THERE IS MUCH TO DO, YET YOU ARE GIVING A GUIDE TO HELP YOU MAKE IT TO THE DOOR THAT LET YOU OUT ON THE OTHER SIDE......WHICH IS SALVATION. God Bless........

It is good that we should make the effort to resist temptation.

 

[edward99]

I'm sorry, you either do not have the ability to express your thoughts correctly, or, you are one very confused person. That doesn't mean that I do not love you, however, as a minister I believe you need to do some more study in God's word. We are all sinners until the day we are glorified and not until then. May I ask what Bible you are using and if it applies, what denomination you follow? Cheers

The OP is a woman. Therefore can not be an ordained minister.

 

[cronjecj]

what another nonsense thread *sigh*

 

[Deadtosin]

what another nonsense thread *sigh*

make a thread then

 

[cronjecj]

make a thread then

ok what do you prefer other then "TRUE GRACE MEANS YOU SIN NO MORE" ?

 

[Deadtosin]

ok what do you prefer other then "TRUE GRACE MEANS YOU SIN NO MORE" ?

I prefer whatever God puts on your heart brother You create the thread and I'll be there.

 

[tribesman]

The OP is a woman. Therefore can not be an ordained minister.

I believe Moe was saying that he is a minister.

 

[Adhis]

Doesn't the Bible say we have all sinned and fallen short of God's glory? I know it's a simple verse but if you take the Bible to be the word of God and God is not a man that He should lie, then we are all sinners. Only Jesus lived sinless and faultless and He took the sin of man upon himself that we may be reunited with God. But I don't think that means we are sinless...some one correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Deadtosin]

Doesn't the Bible say we have all sinned and fallen short of God's glory? I know it's a simple verse but if you take the Bible to be the word of God and God is not a man that He should lie, then we are all sinners. Only Jesus lived sinless and faultless and He took the sin of man upon himself that we may be reunited with God. But I don't think that means we are sinless...some one correct me if I'm wrong

I was born a sinner. Jesus died that I might live. Sin is death, Jesus is life. Praise God I am not held captive by sin any longer. I live in God, my life in His and His in mine. I do not live in sin, praise God through no doing of mine. My old man was put on the cross with Jesus and I whole heartedly thank God every second of every day that I'm not who I once was. Not nearly, not kind of, but all together a new creature in Christ Jesus amen.

 

[Adhis]

I was born a sinner. Jesus died that I might live. Sin is death, Jesus is life. Praise God I am not held captive by sin any longer. I live in God, my life in His and His in mine. I do not live in sin, praise God through no doing of mine. My old man was put on the cross with Jesus and I whole heartedly thank God every second of every day that I'm not who I once was. Not nearly, not kind of, but all together a new creature in Christ Jesus amen.

Ah I'm glad you brought this up. In Romans early chapters, Paul explains this. In essence he is saying we are either slaves to God or slaves to sin. Because we are set free from slavery to sin just means we are no longer bound by the chains of sin, however it does not mean that we cannot ever sin. I have said what we like to call "a white lie" as a born again christian. Is that not a sin? But does that mean that I am bound to that sin? I confess my sins and I repent them. I understand there is a risk to take God's forgiveness for granted and we often do but that is where His mercy and grace never fail us. His mercies are new every morning and He is faithful to us enough that we are forgiven

God bless

 

[tribesman]

Okay, Where did I s there is any excuse for sin and that we shouldn't confess it? The reason for the statement that I made concerning grace not being the same as forgiveness is this.... My ex-wife, who recently left me for a man she met on the internet believes now that sin no longer exists because of grace. She believes that grace has covered ALL sin, no matter what your belief is and what you do. She says grace covers it all. That is the reason I said it is not the same. Yes, grace includes the ability for us to repent and be forgiven of our sins, but the operating word there is "repent".

Also, please reread 1 Corinthians 10. The whole text also refers to pagan revelry, sexual immorality, and tested the Lord God (as some do today with their wrong hearted beliefs. Temptation is temptation and Peter even says that, when we si, it's because we are led away by our own lusts. We are given the power to overcome sin. Does that mean we will never sin? Of course not. But my testimony proves that you can "make the choice" to sin or not.

You are right about fornication being one of the sins that overtake some of the israelites who fell away in the desert. Oftentimes this fornication was tied to idolatry and idolatry is essentially spiritual fornication. Also remember that idolatry includes making an idol in one's mind/heart (making up a god of one own's thoughts of how "God" should be).

Anyways, we could go on and on with examples. It seems we are agreeing on the essentials here: that there is a difference between not living in sin and being sin-free and that believers can say no to temptations and that that is the normal mode and that sins can not excused. I am very sorry to hear what your former wife did against you. A most clear example indeed of justifying sin. And you know what the law says about the penalty for such sin and what the end will be if she does not repent.

As far as "Gods law" is concerned, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with true Christianity. The gentiles should never have even been exposed to it in the first place. The law is completely fulfilled and been done away with. Gods laws are now written on our hearts and in our minds. We are led by the Spirit of God, not the written law. Our obedience comes from within, not adherence to external demands. That is why I said that we can overcome sin by the power of the Holy Spirit. It's all about the heart brother.

Here I cannot say that I fully agree. Of course God's law has everything to do with christianity. Paul, the apostle of the gentiles, testified that he believed ALL that is written in the law and the prophets (Acts 24:14). True though, through the new birth the law of God is written on our circumcized hearts. But I don't see a contradiction between this and what you call "the written law". They are the same. Are you dispensationalist or similar?

Stay on!

 

[Deadtosin]

Ah I'm glad you brought this up. In Romans early chapters, Paul explains this. In essence he is saying we are either slaves to God or slaves to sin. Because we are set free from slavery to sin just means we are no longer bound by the chains of sin, however it does not mean that we cannot ever sin. I have said what we like to call "a white lie" as a born again christian. Is that not a sin? But does that mean that I am bound to that sin? I confess my sins and I repent them. I understand there is a risk to take God's forgiveness for granted and we often do but that is where His mercy and grace never fail us. His mercies are new every morning and He is faithful to us enough that we are forgiven

God bless

Amen, Jesus led by example, how many times did He command we are to forgive our brethren? not 7 times but 70 times 7. He is the Master of forgiveness. For a christian to fall at a stumbling block is quite a real possibility, a chick only needs to wander from the protection of mamma's wing to be in danger of death. However, the chick never HAS to leave the protection of the wing. Through vigilance and wisdom which was learned from the parent, the chick can choose to grow in safety. If it grows careless it may choose to walk away, then whatever befalls it was its own fault. But the mother will never decline her chick to return but instead will rejoice at the homecoming. The bonds of sin, is that once devoured we return to it, like a dog to its own vomit, we no longer decide to commit the action, we seem to be drawn to the action again and again as if by some power of its own, and indeed it is. But through Jesus Christ those bonds are broken. So, I for one choose to stay under the protection of the wing, and in the buxom of our Lord Jesus Christ

God bless

 

[tribesman]

...As far as "Gods law" is concerned, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with true Christianity. The gentiles should never have even been exposed to it in the first place. The law is completely fulfilled and been done away with...

Sorry, but doesn't this "the law is...done away with" open up for the idea that nothing is really a sin, since there's no more law? After all scripture says that "sin is transgression of the law" (1John 3:4). And Jesus said He had not come to destroy the law (Matt.5:17).

 

[Deadtosin]

the evidence would suggest that the opposite is true, there is not less sin since the old laws were done away with but indeed there is more sin. For the old law states that one cannot commit adultery, the new law states that lusting in your heart is committing adultery. It is not the original law, it is MUCH more intimate.

 

[tribesman]

the evidence would suggest that the opposite is true, there is not less sin since the old laws were done away with but indeed there is more sin. For the old law states that one cannot commit adultery, the new law states that lusting in your heart is committing adultery. It is not the original law, it is MUCH more intimate.

You are wrong here. The "original" law also judged the sin of the heart, not only the external sin. What was sin in Moses' and Jesus' day is as much sin today.

Jesus rebuked the rebellious pharisees for not knowing/understanding this. These pharisees looked primarily to the external and did not realize that God's law also judges the sin in man's heart.

God gave but one single law, that only Christ has kept perfectly.

 

[Deadtosin]

okay brother call it what you want, but what the old testament says is not on the same level of depth as what Jesus say's. I said it wasn't the same, you say it wasn't clear. Okay, whatever. Same difference to me. They didn't have the Holy Spirit to write the law within their hearts, so they could only relate sin to what they were told. One may say they wrote out the rough draft in 10 simple commandments, but when the indwelling of the Holy Spirit came, the truth with infinite detail commenced.


27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.

 

[tribesman]

okay brother call it what you want, but what the old testament says is not on the same level of depth as what Jesus say's. I said it wasn't the same, you say it wasn't clear. Okay, whatever. Same difference to me
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.

What you mean with that I said "it wasn't clear"? I did not say that. I will say that the law of God is clear on that internal and external sins are both equally sins before God. It is displayed for example in the command "thou shalt not covet" (Exo.20:17).

Jesus taught nothing new, He taught exactly in line with what Torah (the law of God) says in full on the matter. The pharisees had a shallow sin concept that primarily dealt with the external.