Holiness

[Jullianna]

Does anyone else think that we are often far too casual about the holiness of God? God is love and tenderness and protection and provision and all sorts of other awesomeness to us, but He is also mighty and righteous and holy. Just something that's been on my mind alot recently...

2 Samuel 6

David again brought together all the able young men of Israel—thirty thousand. 2 He and all his men went to Baalah[a] in Judah to bring up from there the ark of God, which is called by the Name,[b] the name of the Lord Almighty, who is enthroned between the cherubim on the ark. 3 They set the ark of God on a new cart and brought it from the house of Abinadab, which was on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab, were guiding the new cart 4 with the ark of God on it,[c] and Ahio was walking in front of it. 5 David and all Israel were celebrating with all their might before the Lord, with castanets,[d] harps, lyres, timbrels, sistrums and cymbals.


6 When they came to the threshing floor of Nakon, Uzzah reached out and took hold of the ark of God, because the oxen stumbled. 7 The Lord’s anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down, and he died there beside the ark of God.

 

[LightningClap0002]

Does anyone else think that we are often far too casual about the holiness of God? God is love and tenderness and protection and provision and all sorts of other awesomeness to us, but He is also mighty and righteous and holy. Just something that's been on my mind alot recently...

2 Samuel 6

David again brought together all the able young men of Israel—thirty thousand. 2 He and all his men went to Baalah[a] in Judah to bring up from there the ark of God, which is called by the Name,[b] the name of the Lord Almighty, who is enthroned between the cherubim on the ark. 3 They set the ark of God on a new cart and brought it from the house of Abinadab, which was on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab, were guiding the new cart 4 with the ark of God on it,[c] and Ahio was walking in front of it. 5 David and all Israel were celebrating with all their might before the Lord, with castanets,[d] harps, lyres, timbrels, sistrums and cymbals.


6 When they came to the threshing floor of Nakon, Uzzah reached out and took hold of the ark of God, because the oxen stumbled. 7 The Lord’s anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down, and he died there beside the ark of God.

Jullianna, would you share your definition of holiness?

 

[Jullianna]

What holy means to me: Divine, pure, sacred

God is a God of order. The scriptures make that clear. He has given us standards. He has given us instructions. Yes, He is gracious. Yes, He is merciful. Yes, He is forgiving. But..ever since Ritter made his comment in another thread about Ananais and Sapphira, it has been on my mind just how casual we have become about some things, you know?

I'm not talking about legalism...cutting/not cutting hair, what we wear, what we eat, etc. I'm talking about reverence for the holy things of God and His ways. Does that make sense?

 

[LightningClap0002]

What holy means to me: Divine, pure, sacred

God is a God of order. The scriptures make that clear. He has given us standards. He has given us instructions. Yes, He is gracious. Yes, He is merciful. Yes, He is forgiving. But..ever since Ritter made his comment in another thread about Ananais and Sapphira, it has been on my mind just how casual we have become about some things, you know?

I'm not talking about legalism...cutting/not cutting hair, what we wear, what we eat, etc. I'm talking about reverence for the holy things of God and His ways. Does that make sense?

Gotchya! I guess I saw the Ark things as more a demonstration of His power. I think I see where you were going with this, though. God's holiness, especially combined with His power, is truly awe inspiring.

For me, I see many people pointing to God's holiness and righteousness and trying to claim it for themselves and as justification of their own actions. This has bothered me on several occasions. I don't know if it's really related, but kind of ties in with your "not about legalism." We are not holy, things that are justified for God to do are not necessarily justified for us to do.

 

[Oncefallen]

I have to agree that much of the church has lost sight of the absolute holiness of God. It seems that in so much of the protestant world that we focus so much on the love and forgiveness of God, and our position as sons and daughters of the King that at times an almost irreverent tone can enter into our relationship with Him. I think this has gotten worse as our culture has become more and more familiar. Hearing people say things like, "Jesus is my homie" drives me nuts.

I think that much of the church has also lost touch with the fact that we are called to be Holy as He is.

 

[Liz01]

i understand holiness as obedience to God and i think its not easy to increase it through we grow , to take our desires and put them under the feet of God sometimes is painful, but it can make us very happy.

....but im not sure that im talking about the same meaning of holiness in this thread....

 

[timothy10]

Holiness is the very nature of God " HOLY" defines as "dedicated or set apart for the services of God; living a life of spiritual purity". Holiness in our lives is conforming to the character of God and living in the way that will please him. Holiness is not to be considered an option just for those who desire to walk a little closer with God. Rather the Lord sees it as a requirement for every child of God. Because of our love for Him,we desire to be like him in our affections,attitudes,thoughts and actions.

 

[LightningClap0002]

Holiness is the very nature of God " HOLY" defines as "dedicated or set apart for the services of God; living a life of spiritual purity". Holiness in our lives is conforming to the character of God and living in the way that will please him. Holiness is not to be considered an option just for those who desire to walk a little closer with God. Rather the Lord sees it as a requirement for every child of God. Because of our love for Him,we desire to be like him in our affections,attitudes,thoughts and actions.

Timothy, you have presented an interesting position. Can you back it up with scripture? Your statement that the Lord sees it as a requirement seems odd. Biblically, we are sanctified(Set apart as or declare holy; consecrate.) through Christ.

1 Corinthians 6:11 - And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[Jullianna]

I think that's what's been on my mind, timothy10, and that's my point. It is NOT optional:


13 Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”
17 Since you call on a Father who judges each person’s work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear. 18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. 20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. 21 Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.
22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,
“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.”

And this is the word that was preached to you.



Oncefallen, YES, you've hit on exactly what I'm talking about...the "Jesus is my homie" kinda stuff. Trying to make God commercial rather than conveying His righteousness and holiness. He puts the AWE in awesome.

Here's what's swimming around in my brain...How can we hope to be all He wants to mold us into until we appreciate Him for Who He truly is?



EXODUS 33:
18 Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.”
19 And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”
21 Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”

 

[Descyple]

Thank you Julianna for reminding us of the need to hold reverence for God's holiness in equal representation of affection for His love. In fact, it is very difficult (if not outright impossible) to fully understand the depth of His love on the Cross without mentioning the fierceness of His wrath also on the Cross. Without mentioning God's holiness, God's love and grace on the Cross become, at best, a superficial nicety, or at worst, incoherent. Jesus did not die on the Cross just to display God's love, but to declare His unswerving holiness in stark contrast with our sin and unrighteousness. Jesus died for us because God is holy, and because we are unholy. Those two truths cannot be separated or diluted without diluting and diminishing the Cross.

"Not all the thunderbolts of divine judgment which were let loose in the Old Testament times, not all the vials of wrath which shall yet be poured forth on an apostate Christendom during the uparalleled horrors of the Great Tribulation, not all the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth of the damned in the Lake of Fire ever gave, or ever will give such a demonstration of God's inflexible justice and ineffable holiness, of his infinite hatred of sin, as did the wrath of God which flamed against his own Son on the Cross.
- A.W. Pink, The Seven Sayings of the Savior on the Cross, Chapter 4, pg 61


Since Ananias and Sapphira were mentioned, I thought I should link here a good animation video on those two biblical characters, which we should definitely not forget about during our own meditations on the holiness of God.

"And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things." - Acts 5:11


[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyCAVatfLmY[/video]

 

[LightningClap0002]

I think that's what's been on my mind, timothy10, and that's my point. It is NOT optional:

for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy." 1 Peter 1:16


Oncefallen, YES, you've hit on exactly what I'm talking about...the "Jesus is my homie" kinda stuff. Trying to make God commercial rather than conveying His righteousness and holiness. He puts the AWE in awesome.

Here's what's swimming around in my brain...How can we hope to be all He wants to mold us into until we appreciate Him for Who He truly is?

EXODUS 33:
18 Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.”
19 And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”
21 Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”

The "homie" thing seems completely different than what Timothy presented, and both of your Exodus examples. :S I completely agree with OnceFallen; "i'm in love with Jesus" or "jesus is my boyfriend" type phrases always kind of bothered me too. :S

Hmmm, I still just see this as God's power. :S Holiness to me has always seemed to be much more about purity than power. Or maybe it just all tied in under respect. God certainly has all three, so maybe it doesn't matter.

 

[Jullianna]

Lightning, I don't know that there is a right or wrong when it comes to defining what holiness is to you, as long as we reverently realize Who God is. He is I AM. He is above all things. He is the Creator of all that is or ever will be. Proverbs, Psalms and Acts all tell us that understanding these things is the beginning of wisdom.

 

[Oncefallen]

Christian doctrine 101:

At the moment of salvation, the righteousness and holiness of Christ is given to a believer. God sees us positionally as holy as Christ is holy. Sanctification is the lifelong process of becoming that holiness that God sees.

 

[timothy10]

Timothy, you have presented an interesting position. Can you back it up with scripture? Your statement that the Lord sees it as a requirement seems odd. Biblically, we are sanctified(Set apart as or declare holy; consecrate.) through Christ.

1 Corinthians 6:11 - And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
( Hebrews 12:14 )

 

[adekruif]

I haven't read all the replies but yes I think often times we are WAY too casual about God's Holiness. A funny little story that happened recently.

I was chatting online with the lady that brought me to Christ about something that I can't remember now. We were talking about something spiritual and I called God "The man upstairs". When I said that she blew a gasket, and I got chewed out pretty good. I am glad we were talking via the internet otherwise I am pretty darn sure I would have gotten slapped upside the head. I didn't see the problem with calling God "The man upstairs" at the time, but that is no longer part of my vocabulary for various reasons.

I think that is what you're trying to get at here...we don't always treat God as HOLY, and tend to blow off Him attributes at times.

 

[GRA]

Let's "raise the bar" a little...

When people use the phrase 'Almighty Dollar' - as innocent as it may seem - they are attributing to the 'dollar' those things that solely belong to God. Why? Since there is only "one thing" that exists that is 'almighty' - the word, in truth, can only refer to God. This is "borderline" or "over the line" blasphemy. Think about it...

There are a lot of things like this that we say and do in our everyday life - "that we think nothing of" - but that actually may have a lot more serious consequences on Judgment Day than people want to believe.

There are so many of these things that Satan has managed to "slip into" the fabric of every society unnoticed.

We invite [demonic] trouble upon ourselves because we do not understand the significance of these things.

We do not understand the significance of these things because we do not recognize the importance of having 'reverence' for the 'holy' things of God.

"Just something to think about..."

.

 

[zeroturbulence]

Does anyone else think that we are often far too casual about the holiness of God?

Yes, I do. I always remember how John fell at Christ's feet as though he was dead when he encountered his presence in Revelation. The thought of that makes me tremble at the thought of actually being in the presence of the Lord. It also tells me that Jesus is so much more than the kind, gentle man that who walked the earth. He has immense power and authority and truly is the Son of GOD.

When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. - Revelation 1:17

 

[Jullianna]

I agree, Gabe

JOHN 18:
4 Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, “Who is it you want?”
5 “Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied.
“I am he,” Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.) 6 When Jesus said, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.

 

[Jullianna]

Christian doctrine 101:

At the moment of salvation, the righteousness and holiness of Christ is given to a believer. God sees us positionally as holy as Christ is holy. Sanctification is the lifelong process of becoming that holiness that God sees.

Thank you for posting this, Oncefallen. I don't want anyone to get the idea that WE made ourselves holy. Any holiness we have is from God alone and the work HE does in us as we yield to the Holy Spirit.

I'm hoping everyone understands that I'm talking about understanding and appreciation of HIS holiness - His ways, what He wants of us

 

[Beloved57]

19) Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are His. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20) But in a great house there are vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonor.
21) If a man therefore purge himself of these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the Master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
22) Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, chartity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
II Timothy 2:19-22

Without Holiness we can not be a vessel of honour to God, nor can we be meet for the Master's use.