14 Dead Colorado Shooting - Still developing.

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iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
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#81
no i agree to be curious,,,look real close at the photo of the tanks on the other news post,,,,three or four Bradly's going the wrong way (red-lights are all green at their backs),,,about 40 soldiers walking beside tanks and in the bottom right hand corner is a rock dove,,(that don't seem to know their there)directly hehind the tanks is the pipe rack of a diesel rig(going the wrong way),,,there are no dividing lines in the road(yellow or white stripes),,,,if you look at the shadows in the picture they are directly under the tanks(high noon),,,,but if you look close at the soldiers shadows they cast (two different directions)but neither match the shadow's under the tanks,,,,if you look directly behind the "Diesel rig" there is one of the trucks like we see on news clips from Iraq/Afghanistan (rounded type cab white) going head on into the diesel,,,,,,look at the canopy signs (look for English words),,,what launguage is on these signs? looks like English but what word starts with "gry"?,,,,,there are three shades of tint from front to back,,,and the picture does not foreshorten correctly (things appear smaller with distance),,,,now i know they really had an exercise in st.Louis,,,,,,,,so why not just use the real pictures???,,,,why create extra ones?,,,,,,,,,i agree why so many different stories,,,,
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,610
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#82
should add this also,,,newt Gingrich was on jay lino the other night jay said "if you watch one channel,,they show mean pictures of Obama,,,on the other just the opposite with Romney,,,,,,,,,,newt told him,,"so then you see if you are for one of them just watch that channel",,,notice he didn't dissagree,,that is he knows both channels were showing you what they wanted you to believe,,,,,so then notice we ,,,,"pretty much all disagree about what we saw on the news",,,you see the channel i watched said this,,,and the one you watched sad that,,,,,,and the one eward99 watched "said what he said it said",,,,,,,,,,
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,610
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#83
something i wish someone could explain is this,,,,I'm poor,,,,i have no satellite,cable ect. h.d.tv only ,,,,,my boys have tv down hall with old style h.d.converter box and rabbit ears,,,,,,i have flat screen with outdoor on rotatory pole in living room,,,,,,few years back i moved computer desk against wall so i could see down hall (keeping eye on boys what they watch ect.) i take the zapper and change the t.v. so i can see what their watching ect.(one's only 10),,,,,,,most times mine goes to commercial exactly with theirs,,,,about once a month one of them goes to commercial and the other begins to change either before or after)10 seconds or so, but shows same commercial,,,,but out of sync (time with the other),,,,,maybe once every two months we both have the t.v's on the same channel and im seeing one show and their watching another show,,,,,,,,,,"why"??????????
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
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#84
i know why "i work on computers",,,just curious who else knows why,,,,,,,,
 
Jun 24, 2010
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#85
I'm not for the death penalty.
If the opportunity to take him down in the act were there, I would have been for that.

Besides...I don't think he is the only one guilty for this disaster: we need to slow down on this. He's in jail. That's enough until a grand jury (hopefully) does a parallel investigation.

As for the heart behind it, the guy was drugged/demon possessed. There's a lot of that going around these days, and certain agencies are involved.
I'll tell you right out, I am for the death penalty and you will never find another believer that believes in the mercy and grace of God more than I. If God has to bring a man to his knees through the sentence and execution of capital punishment here or abroad, then so be it. If the man does not avail himself of that mercy and turn to Christ to be cleansed from his sin and dies in his sin without being cleansed, then he suffered the sin unto physical death because of his crime against another.

Tell me your thoughts on this edward99. Moses, Paul and David were all murderers that never suffered death for their sin and Moses gave the law, David lived under the law and Paul was zealous for the law. Instead, God put away their sin through mercy, raised them up and used them for His purposes. Should they have died for taking the life of another. Yes they should have BUT GOD... They should have paid for their sin BUT GOD...

Do you think because we are under grace that we are not subject to the ordinances of man? If you want to live a life of crime and don't want to be executed then go and move to a state where you can be protected by the law. What do you think it will be like for man in the kingdom age who violates God's righteousness and takes the life of another. Will there be swift judgment upon that soul or will he be given mercy for his sin? We live in the dispensation of grace and when sin abounds grace much more abounds, but under the law of the land that we live we must suffer as a transgressor and unless God intervenes, which is very rare, the law will be upheld and the consequences will be exacted, even unto death.
 
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edward99

Guest
#86
I'll tell you right out, I am for the death penalty and you will never find another believer that believes in the mercy and grace of God more than I. If God has to bring a man to his knees through the sentence and execution of capital punishment here or abroad, then so be it. If the man does not avail himself of that mercy and turn to Christ to be cleansed from his sin and dies in his sin without being cleansed, then he suffered the sin unto physical death because of his crime against another.

Tell me your thoughts on this edward99. Moses, Paul and David were all murderers that never suffered death for their sin and Moses gave the law, David lived under the law and Paul was zealous for the law. Instead, God put away their sin through mercy, raised them up and used them for His purposes. Should they have died for taking the life of another. Yes they should have BUT GOD... They should have paid for their sin BUT GOD...

Do you think because we are under grace that we are not subject to the ordinances of man? If you want to live a life of crime and don't want to be executed then go and move to a state where you can be protected by the law. What do you think it will be like for man in the kingdom age who violates God's righteousness and takes the life of another. Will there be swift judgment upon that soul or will he be given mercy for his sin? We live in the dispensation of grace and when sin abounds grace much more abounds, but under the law of the land that we live we must suffer as a transgressor and unless God intervenes, which is very rare, the law will be upheld and the consequences will be exacted, even unto death.
The death penalty does not act as a deterrent - 88%+ criminologists agree.
So you're talking about retribution; revenge.

Too many innocent people go to prison. New dna and other technologies have proven this.
Most American prisons are private for-profit corporations.
Demographically some are kicked up to felonies when they shouldn't be.
How many innocent men have been put to death?
They will die eventually and meet God.

That's enough.
 
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Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
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#87
something i wish someone could explain is this,,,,I'm poor,,,,i have no satellite,cable ect. h.d.tv only ,,,,,my boys have tv down hall with old style h.d.converter box and rabbit ears,,,,,,i have flat screen with outdoor on rotatory pole in living room,,,,,,few years back i moved computer desk against wall so i could see down hall (keeping eye on boys what they watch ect.) i take the zapper and change the t.v. so i can see what their watching ect.(one's only 10),,,,,,,most times mine goes to commercial exactly with theirs,,,,about once a month one of them goes to commercial and the other begins to change either before or after)10 seconds or so, but shows same commercial,,,,but out of sync (time with the other),,,,,maybe once every two months we both have the t.v's on the same channel and im seeing one show and their watching another show,,,,,,,,,,"why"??????????

There is a slight difference in time with some programs. Since you have a flatscreen im going to assume that you also have High definition TV. If you two happen to be watching them program but you are watching it in HD and they are watching it in SD then the timing will be off. Just a little quirk,
 
T

TheGrungeDiva

Guest
#88
The death penalty does not act as a deterrent - 88%+ criminologists agree.
So you're talking about retribution; revenge.
Putting a criminal to death will not bring back the loved ones he killed.

There is one case I can see for the death penalty: if someone has been sent to prison, and continues to kill, I think for the protection of society, you need to put them down. Their life becomes a threat to others.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#89
John 8


8 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.

2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
I have never liked the death penalty...

I murder you, because you murdered him.................

If you are the executioner, and the person was innocent..... does that make you the murderer?


Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
53
48
#90
John 8




I have never liked the death penalty...

I murder you, because you murdered him.................

If you are the executioner, and the person was innocent..... does that make you the murderer?


Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.
Fulfilling the laws of a society is not the same as murdering. You are simply carrying out the laws of your country. Same as being a soldier and killing someone in war.
 
Jul 25, 2005
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#91
Execution can be done in a spirit of bloodlust, but that does not make execution an intrinsically evil action.

Civil society requires rules. Rules require punishment for those who do not abide by those rules be they legal or otherwise. The death penalty, as it is currently structured in the United States is not a very viable deterrent.

The fundamental question is one of justice, not deterrence. If we wanted to deter crime, we would pay better attention to who we marry and choose to sire children with while simultaneously giving orphaned sons a father figure.

But if your goal is to deprive someone the chances of recidivism and therefore protect society from further atrocities, it is a perfectly viable solution.

If your goal is to show zero toleration as a society for crimes such as this via expulsion from our world, then you have accomplished your goal in execution.

Furthermore, the Biblical role of government dictates that it must bear a sword. A sword is a mechanism for killing and nothing more. There are times, however unfortunate, that bloodshed requires further bloodshed or else we invoke the wrath of God.

I am no fan of the death penalty. I am no fan of shooting and killing in self-defense. I would prefer that the Millennial Kingdom were here and that I would never have to think of such things.

The point is, there are things that, however unpleasant we may find them in the time since the fall, must be done in order to fulfill justice and survive. I am no fan of death of any kind for he who loves death hates God, but that does not free me nor anyone else from the necessities and duties which bind us until the day of redemption.

James Holmes must feel the consequences for his actions in a swift and clean manner.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
217
63
#92
Fulfilling the laws of a society is not the same as murdering. You are simply carrying out the laws of your country. Same as being a soldier and killing someone in war.


Exactly fulfilling the laws of "society"...
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
53
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#93
Well that is how the world is run. You can follow God's laws and forgive this guy all you want, but that doesn't chnage the fact the he broke the law and most face the consequences. "Render to Caeser, what is Caesars."
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
217
63
#94
Well that is how the world is run. You can follow God's laws and forgive this guy all you want, but that doesn't chnage the fact the he broke the law and most face the consequences. "Render to Caeser, what is Caesars."

Eventually we all face the consequence of our actions here on earth.

Those of us who accept Yahshua the Messiah into our hearts are forgiven by grace and mercy.

Our Loving Yahvah God sent us Salvation through Yahshua the Messiah.


like you say "that is how the world is run"......

The Light really does show up the darkness.


Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
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#95
Mark 12

13And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words. 14And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not? 15Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it. 16And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's. 17And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.

Says it all......
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#96
I have arrested murderers and those who have committed unspeakable acts against friends and family, and I will absolutely admit to having times when vengeance was a fleeting thought, especially regarding crimes against children. I'm mortal. Some were crimes of passion, some of them were under the influence of one substance or another, one admitted to belonging to satan and admitted that he would have slit our throats given any opportunity. They ALL said that the death penalty was not a deterrent for them.

I stood ready to protect others and myself from them in dangerous situations. But, for me, it always comes down to this: I would have a great deal of difficulty being the one to end the life of an incarcerated unarmed individual. And if I don't feel comfortable doing it myself, how do I expect another to do it for me?

No murder goes unpunished as far as I can see, even if we don't even know a murder has been committed. If a man doesn't repent, he is damned for all eternity. If he does repent, God forgives, but that man still lives with what he has done. If his heart became soft enough to heed the call of the Holy Spirit, I can't imagine what it would be like to live with such a thing. Paul spoke of this torment.
 
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edward99

Guest
#98
I would prefer that the [Millennial] Kingdom were here and that I would never have to think of such things.
The Kingdom is here. Jesus is reigning in heaven.
on earth we have the wheat and the tares growing together until the Harvest, then eternity.
Rev 20 is not referencing one thousand years of Jesus reigning from Jerusalem below, only to have the worst possible rebellion and apostasy happen while He's here in Person.

a thousand years is an Hebraism. it means completion, fullness.
What you're waiting for (no more war; suffering) is eternity. at the Second Advent.
 
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edward99

Guest
#99
James Holmes must feel the consequences for his actions in a swift and clean manner.
Why are you in such a hurry?

Wayne Madsen Report

July 23-24, 2012 -- Aurora massacre: several links between James Holmes and U.S. government research (Salk Institute involved in neurologically enhancing soldiers' abilities on battlefield...connections to DARPA)

James Holmes, the 24-year old suspect in the mass shooting of Batman "The Dark Knight Rises" movie goers in Aurora, Colorado that left 12 people dead and 58 injured, has had a number of links to U.S. government-funded research centers. Holmes's past association with government research projects has prompted police and federal law enforcement officials to order laboratories and schools with which Holmes has had a past association not to talk to the press about Holmes.

Holmes was one of six recipients of a National Institutes of Health Neuroscience Training Grant at the University of Colorado Anschutz Medical Campus in Denver. Holme is a graduate of the University of California at Riverside with a Bachelor of Science degree in neuroscience. Although Holmes dropped out of the PhD neuroscience program at Anschutz in June, police evacuated two buildings at the Anschutz center after the massacre at the Aurora movie theater. Holmes reportedly gave a presentation at the Anschutz campus in May on Micro DNA Biomarkers in a class titled "Biological Basis of Psychiatric and Neurological Disorders."

Initial reports of Holmes having an accomplice in the theater shooting have been discounted by the Aurora police. However, no explanation has been given by police why the Anschutz campus buildings were evacuated after Holmes was already in custody in the Arapahoe County jail.

The Anschutz Medical Campus is on the recently de-commisioned site of the U.S. Army's Fitzsimons Army Medical Center and is named after Philip Anschutz, the billionaire Christian fundamentalist oil and railroad tycoon who also owns The Examiner newspaper chain and website and the neo-conservative Weekly Standard. The Anschutz Medical Campus was built by a $91 million grant from the Anschutz Foundation.

In 2006, at the age of 18, Holmes served as a research intern at the Salk Institute at the University of California at San Diego in La Jolla. It is noteworthy that for the previous two years before Holmes worked at the Salk Institute, the research center was partnered with the Defense Advance Research Projects Agency (DARPA), Columbia University, University of California at San Francisco, University of Wisconsin at Madison, Wake Forest University, and the Mars Company (the manufacturers of Milky Way and Snickers bars) to prevent fatigue in combat troops through the enhanced use of epicatechina, a blood flow-increasing and blood vessel-dilating anti-oxidant flavanol found in cocoa and, particularly, in dark chocolate.

The research was part of a larger DARPA program known as the "Peak Soldier Performance Program," which involved creating brain-machine interfaces for battlefield use, including human-robotic bionics for legs, arms, and eyes. DARPA works closely with the Defense Science Office on projects that include the medical research community. Fitzsimons was at the forefront of DARPA research on the use of brain-connected "neuroprosthetic" limbs for soldiers amputated or paralyzed in combat.

According to his LinkedIn profile, James Holmes's father, Dr. Robert Holmes, who received a PhD in Statistics in 1981 from the University of California at Berkeley, worked for San Diego-based HNC Software, Inc. from 2000 to 2002. HNC, known as a "neural network" company, and DARPA, beginning in 1998, have worked on developing "cortronic neural networks," which would allow machines to interpret aural and visual stimuli to think like humans. The cortronic concept was developed by HNC Software's chief scientist and co-founder, Robert Hecht-Nielsen. HNC merged with the Minneapolis-based Fair Isaac Corporation (FICO), a computer analysis and decision-making company. Robert Holmes continues to work at FICO.

It has also emerged that Holmes, when he was 20, worked as a camp counselor at Camp Max Straus of the Jewish Big Brothers and Sister of Los Angeles. According to the Jewish Journal, among other tasks, Holmes helped to teach boys between the ages of 7 to 10 archery. In another unusual detail, the car Holmes used to drive to the Aurora movie theater had Tennessee plates. Holmes is originally from San Diego.

James Holmes is the grandson of Lt. Col. Robert Holmes, one of the first Turkish language graduates of the Army Language School, later the Defense Language Institute, in Monterey, California. Graduating from the Turkish language class in 1948, Holmes spent a career in the Army, which likely included more than a few intelligence-related assignments. Typically, U.S. military officers conversant in Turkish served with either the Defense Intelligence Agency or the Central Intelligence Agency at either the U.S. embassy in Ankara or the Consulate General in Istanbul, or both.

Terrence Sejnowski, the Francis Crick Professor at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies and the director of the Computational Neurobiology Laboratory, in an interview with Cognitive Science Online in 2008, had the following comment about recent studies of the human brain: "Alan Newell [cognitive psychology researcher at the intelligence community-linked RAND Corporation] once said that when AI [artificial intelligence] was founded not enough was known about the brain to be of any help and in the early 1980s, symbol processing was the only game in town. That has changed and we now know a lot about the brain, perhaps more than we need to know [emphasis added]."

More than we need to know!

The links between the younger and elder Holmes and U.S. government research on creating super-soldiers, human brain-machine interfaces, and human-like robots beg the question: "Was James Holmes engaged in a real-life Jason Bourne TREADSTONE project that broke down and resulted in deadly consequences in Aurora, Colorado?" In any event, if the Batman movies are now serving as a newer version of J.D. Salinger's "Catcher in the Rye" subliminal messaging triggering mechanism, -- Salinger's novel was of interest to a number of American political assassins -- keep in mind that August 10 is the opening date of The Bourne Legacy. It may be wise to skip that film in the theater for a while.
 
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Jun 24, 2010
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The death penalty does not act as a deterrent - 88%+ criminologists agree.
So you're talking about retribution; revenge.

The purpose of the death penalty is to rid and remove from society those that do not hold life as sacred and take the life of another without that regard. I do not think that rehabilitation with a life sentence or the use of the death penalty as a deterrent has anything to do with capital punishment. Both may have some merit but freeing society from those that do not hold life as sacred will allow for life to continue minimizing that threat.

Too many innocent people go to prison. New dna and other technologies have proven this.

That is a problem with the justice system and how guilt is proven through the type of evidence provided and the weight given to it, but to use that to justify being against the death penalty has little merit. Thank God for DNA testing.

Most American prisons are private for-profit corporations.
Demographically some are kicked up to felonies when they shouldn't be.
How many innocent men have been put to death?

I have no idea how many and that is unfortunate when it happens but God is just in all these things. Have you ever been wronged and accused for something you had no part of? Did you get all upset when it became a 'tag' on your reputation and people never looked at you the same way they did before it happened? Remember Christ was crucified and what sin or crime was He guilty of? He was accused of much but guilty of none, but it did not stop Him from suffering death at 33 yrs old and did not stop Him from becoming sin, even for all those guilty murderers that would suffer the death penalty under the law of the land as first degree murderers.

You want those on death row (guilty or innocent) to have a chance at the gospel, then go visit them and tell them about Christ and Him crucified. They are in a perfect place to hear what you have to say, plenty of time to reflect upon it and they are not going anywhere because their time is short.

They will die eventually and meet God.

The issues of death belong to God and don't think for a moment that He does not use man to fulfill and bring those issues to past and make an end of a man's life with judgment to follow. God's justice is perfect and His ways are past finding out. If an innocent man dies from another man's crime, it does not go unnoticed but all things are of God. Don't get carried away with that last statement because it is said in wisdom and not carelessly.

That's enough.
COMMENTS ABOVE ^^^^^