Once saved Always Saved! Does the New Testament support this??

[eternally-gratefull]

1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

proves they were washed (made clean) sanctified (set apart) and justified (declared innocent of all crimes) by God and not because they changed their life. it was the work of God, not their work.

2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

a dog is born a dog. a person is born unsaved.

a dog can pretent=d to be something other than a dog/ a person can pretend they are someone other than unsaved

a dog will always return to her self, her true identity, which is a dog, an unsaved person will always return to their true identity, which is of the world.

both of those passages refute what your saying you believe in, if you would just interpret them correctly

 

[Closemyeyes2cU]

both of those passages refute what your saying you believe in, if you would just interpret them correctly

Repeat what you just said, but this time do it in front of a mirror.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Repeat what you just said, but this time do it in front of a mirror.

I would if it was true. but its not.

Jesus said he gave me eternal life. You want me to believe he gave me conditional life. I can;t call God a liar. You do what you please!

 

[RedTent]

In order to understand God principles through scripture, it must be first understood that all scripture from Genesis to Revelation are the words of one God, given to us over many thousand years, to different people in different cultures, but the very same principles. If you find one principle disagrees with another, then it is not God who is in error, but your understanding. The poster who quoted Corinthians so confidently is a case in point. She was not understanding that message. People who want NT only cannot understand Christ, for the complete picture of Christ requires OT knowledge.

The principle that stands up to careful study of the entire bible, OT and NT, is that we are never able to make ourselves holy enough to be saved, it is through God’s grace that we are included as a result of our faith. AFTER we are saved, after we are included, we are trained in the ways of God. We must understand and think in terms of God as triune, not as three separate apart pieces. Then there is a key verse that sums up what happens, and it is sort of an explanation of all other scripture. It is Mark 3: 28 I assure you: People will be forgiven for all sins and whatever blasphemies(they may blaspheme. 29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness,(but is guilty of an eternal sin” . This was spoken by Christ in response to being accused of having an unclean spirit, but I think the principle stands that God will forgive us of almost everything. God talks of being condemned under the law, but we are under grace. I think God is telling us, by that, that after we are saved we can go to Christ to be cleansed of our sin, but if we are not saved through our faith in God, then we cannot go for salvation to what we don't believe in.

I am sorry, I do not fully understand what God means by blaspheme against the HS, but I assume God means as long as we do not deny Him.

 

[oldhermit]

Better yet, Lets look at hos the author of Hebrews SHOULD be translated.

1. Context. The author is speaking to Hebrew people who claimed to have tasted the truth of the gospel, and have returned to the law, (the law states we must work our way to earn salvation) He is warning people who have heard the truth of the gospel. to not show their faith was dead, and reveal who they truly were by returning to the vomit they truly trusted in.
2. We must see what the context and start of the passages is. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE THAT, then determine what is impossible.,
3. Then we come to the who. I agree, the who is those who have been saved, For only those who are saved have tasted and become partakers of the HS.
4. Then we go on, And see that paul makes a questionary statement. "IF THEY FALL AWAY" And we must note. Paul is not saying the did fall away, He is saying if they could fall away, How can I say this? again look at context of the letter. The law. What does the law state? It states one is cleansed only for the sins forgiven by the sacrifice of the animal. Any sin after than, another sacrifice must be given, Thus in between, when one sins, they have "FALLEN AWAY" so, in returning to law. you are staing one is ABLE to fall away, and must be renewed by another sacrifice. Thus paul, refering to law. says IF THEY FALL AWAY.
5. Finally we come to what is impossible. "TO RENEW THEM TO REPENTANCE" this has 2 major conclusions.
A. If they ever did fall away, they could never be saved again - according to law, this is not true, for one can be renewed simply by sacrifice. even those who say you can lose salvation, and that is the context of the author in this text, if one could lose salvation (OSAS is FALSE) whoever did lose salvation can never be saved again.
B, The author is really saying they can't fall away, and even if they could, if they did, they are lost forever.
6. Crucified for themselves christ all over again. The author is stating a fact, unlike the law where a sacrifice would have to be done again if one fell away, if one can fall away now, Christ owuld have to be crucified again in order to renew them.
7. And put christ to open shame. why do they do this? they say there is a sin which Christ did not pay the price for (now over 2000 years ago) and he must return to earth to die again for the sin he forgot to die for in the first place.

the context here is animal sacrifice. Hebrews says it never took away sin, and had to be repeated over and over. if we can 'fall away" or lose salvation.l Christ must return again and be crucified over and over for the sin which caused us to "fall away" to begin with.


I understand very well that the Hebrew letter is directed to Hebrew christians. This text has nothing to do with the old law or with animal sacrifices. Those under the law did not have access to share in the Holy Spirit and these have ONCE AGAIN crusified the Son of God to themselves, not animal sacrifices. These were christians that have fallen away from the gospel, not the law of Moses.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In order to understand God principles through scripture, it must be first understood that all scripture from Genesis to Revelation are the words of one God, given to us over many thousand years, to different people in different cultures, but the very same principles. If you find one principle disagrees with another, then it is not God who is in error, but your understanding. The poster who quoted Corinthians so confidently is a case in point. She was not understanding that message. People who want NT only cannot understand Christ, for the complete picture of Christ requires OT knowledge.

The principle that stands up to careful study of the entire bible, OT and NT, is that we are never able to make ourselves holy enough to be saved, it is through God’s grace that we are included as a result of our faith. AFTER we are saved, after we are included, we are trained in the ways of God. We must understand and think in terms of God as triune, not as three separate apart pieces. Then there is a key verse that sums up what happens, and it is sort of an explanation of all other scripture. It is Mark 3: 28 I assure you: People will be forgiven for all sins and whatever blasphemies(they may blaspheme. 29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness,(but is guilty of an eternal sin” . This was spoken by Christ in response to being accused of having an unclean spirit, but I think the principle stands that God will forgive us of almost everything. God talks of being condemned under the law, but we are under grace. I think God is telling us, by that, that after we are saved we can go to Christ to be cleansed of our sin, but if we are not saved through our faith in God, then we cannot go for salvation to what we don't believe in.

I am sorry, I do not fully understand what God means by blaspheme against the HS, but I assume God means as long as we do not deny Him.

Look at context. Jesus performed miracles. but it was not his work, but the work of God. they attributed the work of God to satan and not the HS who did all the work through Christ.

He also said they were in danger of doing this sin, even though they literally did it. It means they still have a chance to repent.

The HS's job is to convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgment , Of sin because they reject Christ, this are still in theri sin. Of righteousness because Christ paid the debt and has returned to the father, Of judgment because the ruler of this world has been judged, and you will be judged with him if you do not come to truth. Since the HS is the one who teaches all the world this, if you reject what the HS says, you are in danger of commiting this sin. But if you die in this state, you have fulfilled that sin, and that sin will not be forgiven.

No one will go to hell because of any sin they commit, they will go to hell because they rejected what the HS came to teach us (ultimately rejecting Christ)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I understand very well that the Hebrew letter is directed to Hebrew christians. This text has nothing to do with the old law or with animal sacrifices. Those under the law did not have access to share in the Holy Spirit and these have ONCE AGAIN crusified the Son of God to themselves, not animal sacrifices. These were christians that have fallen away from the gospel, not the law of Moses.

Then you do not understand at all. Because the whole book of hebrews was talking about the danger of returning to law.

How can we crucify for ourselves christ again unless we reject what his death did, By saying there is some sin we can commit which his death did not pay for. This is returning to law, and rejecting grace.

we can prove this further by reading the next two verses.

7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

Notice the wording here, it does not say it is cursed, it says it is close, or near to being cursed, who's end is to be birned.

Then look at related passage, 1 cor 12

God silver precious stone wood hey stray, If my work endures I will recieve a reward, If it does not, I am NEAR to being cursed, but I am still saved, Even though as through Fire (end is burned)

 

[Red33]

proves they were washed (made clean) sanctified (set apart) and justified (declared innocent of all crimes) by God and not because they changed their life. it was the work of God, not their work.




a dog is born a dog. a person is born unsaved.

a dog can pretent=d to be something other than a dog/ a person can pretend they are someone other than unsaved

a dog will always return to her self, her true identity, which is a dog, an unsaved person will always return to their true identity, which is of the world.

both of those passages refute what your saying you believe in, if you would just interpret them correctly

Explain these and tell us if these passages are speaking of dogs...

2Tim 4:10a
For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica;

3Jn 1:9-11
9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.
10 Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.
11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

Lk 11:24-26
24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

Mt 27:3-5
3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

with... Jn 6:70,71 & Jn 13:10,11
70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.

Mk 7:25-28
25 For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:
26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.
27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.
28 And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.

* Who are the dogs referred to in (Job 30:1, Ps 22:16, Is 56:10,11, Mt 7:6, Phil 3:2 & Rev 22:15)

 

[RedTent]

I think our readers need to think carefully about some of the things said here.

“the law states we must work our way to earn salvation”.

Nowhere in any scripture does it say that the law saved anyone, it was faith and grace. OT explains that God is holy, we are not, and we cannot make ourselves holy except through God’s grace.

“the context here is animal sacrifice. Hebrews says it never took away sin, and had to be repeated over and over. if we can 'fall away" or lose salvation.l Christ must return again and be crucified over and over for the sin which caused us to "fall away" to begin with.”

It is explained that the sacrifices of the temple was a shadow or a picture of Christ. God is eternal, only humans have time. The blood of animals was used as a picture of what Christ did. If we study what God gave them as a picture of Christ we can learn a lot about the work Christ did. It was not the blood of animals, as we are told, but Christ’s blood. But I think it is wrong to discount the picture of Christ that God used to teach the Hebrews.

“Look at context. Jesus performed miracles. But it was not his work, but the work of God. they attributed the work of God to satan and not the HS who did all the work through Christ.”

I think we must remember that Jesus was God, and the HS is part of the triune God.

“No one will go to hell because of any sin they commit, they will go to hell because they rejected what the HS came to teach us (ultimately rejecting Christ}

RIGHT ON!

Quote: “Then you do not understand at all. Because the whole book of hebrews was talking about the danger of returning to law.”

So often people read this truth and don’t understand at all. It is true that we can go to law instead of forgiveness of sins through Christ to be saved, but often they use it to discount the law itself, like discounting God’s word. That is not the purpose of this teaching. Also, because Jews at that time wanted gentiles to obey rituals like circumcision to be included in the kingdom, sometimes that was referred to as “law” in the epistles.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

If you believe you can lose your salvation by your decision then it means you believe you can regain your salvation by a decision and that you got your "initial" salvation in same manner. But - this is all your work. Not the work of God. That is the problem with that view.

Nonono, that is not what I am saying.
But what about the tale about the sower, are the people who accept the word, but are later "strangled" never saved then? I mean, if you believe you are saved, but they can still choose to walk away from God. He will not force Himself upon anyone.

 

[RedTent]

I said : "It is true that we can go to law instead of forgiveness of sins through Christ to be saved". Oh my, oh my. I didn't get the word "some think" we can go to law typed in. It is through Christ's blood we are saved. It is God's grace, not law our salvation comes from. The law comes to us as our guide after salvation. What I typed was not what I thought or God said. It was not truth, I try so hard to only say what God says in scrpture.

 

[starfield]

When you become saved you build a relationship with God forever but it can be broken by backsliding and becoming apostate. So we are to endure to the end and hold firmly to the profession of our faith (Heb 10:23).
Some examples of people who lost their salvation are Demas and the Apostle Judas Iscariot. Demas was once saved but having loved the things of this world, left the ministry (Titus 4:10). Judas Iscariot was a believer who fell into apostasy by betraying Christ. Eternal salvation can be revoked when one backslides.

Romans 6:1-What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
1 Peter 5:8- Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.
Matt 26:41- Watch and pray that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

 

[Shaije]

In order to understand God principles through scripture, it must be first understood that all scripture from Genesis to Revelation are the words of one God, given to us over many thousand years, to different people in different cultures, but the very same principles. If you find one principle disagrees with another, then it is not God who is in error, but your understanding. The poster who quoted Corinthians so confidently is a case in point. She was not understanding that message. People who want NT only cannot understand Christ, for the complete picture of Christ requires OT knowledge.

The principle that stands up to careful study of the entire bible, OT and NT, is that we are never able to make ourselves holy enough to be saved, it is through God’s grace that we are included as a result of our faith. AFTER we are saved, after we are included, we are trained in the ways of God. We must understand and think in terms of God as triune, not as three separate apart pieces. Then there is a key verse that sums up what happens, and it is sort of an explanation of all other scripture. It is Mark 3: 28 I assure you: People will be forgiven for all sins and whatever blasphemies(they may blaspheme. 29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness,(but is guilty of an eternal sin” . This was spoken by Christ in response to being accused of having an unclean spirit, but I think the principle stands that God will forgive us of almost everything. God talks of being condemned under the law, but we are under grace. I think God is telling us, by that, that after we are saved we can go to Christ to be cleansed of our sin, but if we are not saved through our faith in God, then we cannot go for salvation to what we don't believe in.

I am sorry, I do not fully understand what God means by blaspheme against the HS, but I assume God means as long as we do not deny Him.

THANK YOU! finally......this is by far the smartest, most earnest thing i think i have ever read in this room, or any other room for that matter. You are obviously on the right narrow path. OT "&" NT. this so true, cant have one with out the other. and i like what you have put so simple, its all about taking God at His Word and endeavoring to Understand His Word. I am ENCOURAGED greatly by your words. I was just thinking that the Triune God belief is comparable to mind, body, and spirit....Mind: the mind of God the Creator Body: "the body of CHRIST." Gods Word made flesh, that He may dwell among us. And Spirit: the HOLY SPIRIT, the helper, the spirit of Jesus, left to guide us in this wicked world that we all live in. It just came to me and maybe i will be able to use this to teach or possibly enlighten someone. Trying to explain the Trinity can be tricky. Unbelievers seem to get annoyed or confused really fast when faced with 1 GOD, but He is a trinity. One passage that i cling to, concerning the the vast unbelief that there is today, (in trade of advanced free thinking brights) "this what they call themselves." 1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the CROSS is foolishness to those who are perishing, BUT to those of us who "Are SAVED" it IS the Power of GOD! AMEN.....this helps me from being bitter, confused, frustrated,offended. An offended Christian is a hazard not only to themselves, but to those who are searching, groping, wanting, waiting for acceptance and to be loved. And you and i both KNOW that JESUS IS LOVE...thank you for lifting up your fellow follower of the CHRIST. Amen and Gods speed to you good slodier of CHRIST. [email protected] ps. im not exactly sure either, but i think that you are right about what you said concerning the Holy Spirit. As long as we dont Deny HIM-God-Jesus-Father-Holy Spirit-Trinity....its all the same Awesome, Life giving, Creator of all, for all. again.....THANK YOU

 

[Katy-follower]

Some examples of people who lost their salvation are Judas Iscariot. Judas Iscariot was a believer who fell into apostasy by betraying Christ

Judas did not have any fruits of a man that was saved. His allegiance was with Rome, not with Christ. He was a "pretend" Christian. He "came out from among them but was not of them". Son of perdition. We are to expect a son of perdition, just like Judas, in the end times.

Apostasy is not a loss of salvation but rather a demonstration that salvation was never truly possessed in the first place (as in, no good fruits)

 

[biggiestomp]

the answer to your question is YES. Anyone who states they have never felt this way is lieing to themselves. whether they believe in OSAS or not.

as for us arguing this. Paul wrote half the New Testament to refute people who think they can earn salvation by a set of rules and regulation, or a works based Gospel. Calling it no gospel at all. So YES we should stand up for thisl for there is only one gospel. As paul said, Anyone who teaches a different gospel should be anathema'd. We should take his lead!

The is not the same as discussing doctrines based on end times prophesy, or how a church is to act. this is the gsoepl, people eternity is at stake here, this is NOT a basic, doctrine where we should just sit back and say it is fine to believe what you believe, because only one of us is right, the ones who are wrong are destined to an eternity separate from God.

Understood, but not all should call themselves teachers. (James 3:1)Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

And anyone who believe their salvation is secure by once saved always saved, anyone whose teaching this, guess who will be judging them. Anyone who strongly believe this, its only through God where the change will come. Not my words, less the Lord is using me.

Spending time taking the lead on this issue when there are many other issues, like how important is this issue to me? Its not! That is why i will not address this issue any longer. But watching other Christian flex their biblical knowledge. A Teacher not only has the right answer at the right time. A Teacher also realize when to let God handle the situation and just be still. To me, this is one of those situations.

I have some Brothers who do believe in the once saved always saved. Do we edify one another still on topics even while they believe on this? We sure do! I believe, anyone who has been chosen by God will know. He says, My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. Salvation is not a set of rules that we work to earn. It is a free gift! That we come to except in order to receive. The new Man! The transformation of our mind done by the work of the spirit. The spirit He workith in us.

Many blessings to all my brother and sisters on this Topic. But please dont ask me, do you believe Once saved Always Saved? I wont answer you nor voice any more on this topic. I humbly remove myself away from any debate on this topic.

Taken the lead on this when im still learning to be a servant. Paul knew what it was to take the lead and to be a servant.

 

[oldhermit]

Better yet, Lets look at hos the author of Hebrews SHOULD be translated.

1. Context. The author is speaking to Hebrew people who claimed to have tasted the truth of the gospel, and have returned to the law, (the law states we must work our way to earn salvation) He is warning people who have heard the truth of the gospel. to not show their faith was dead, and reveal who they truly were by returning to the vomit they truly trusted in.
2. We must see what the context and start of the passages is. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE THAT, then determine what is impossible.,
3. Then we come to the who. I agree, the who is those who have been saved, For only those who are saved have tasted and become partakers of the HS.
4. Then we go on, And see that paul makes a questionary statement. "IF THEY FALL AWAY" And we must note. Paul is not saying the did fall away, He is saying if they could fall away, How can I say this? again look at context of the letter. The law. What does the law state? It states one is cleansed only for the sins forgiven by the sacrifice of the animal. Any sin after than, another sacrifice must be given, Thus in between, when one sins, they have "FALLEN AWAY" so, in returning to law. you are staing one is ABLE to fall away, and must be renewed by another sacrifice. Thus paul, refering to law. says IF THEY FALL AWAY.
5. Finally we come to what is impossible. "TO RENEW THEM TO REPENTANCE" this has 2 major conclusions.
A. If they ever did fall away, they could never be saved again - according to law, this is not true, for one can be renewed simply by sacrifice. even those who say you can lose salvation, and that is the context of the author in this text, if one could lose salvation (OSAS is FALSE) whoever did lose salvation can never be saved again.
B, The author is really saying they can't fall away, and even if they could, if they did, they are lost forever.
6. Crucified for themselves christ all over again. The author is stating a fact, unlike the law where a sacrifice would have to be done again if one fell away, if one can fall away now, Christ owuld have to be crucified again in order to renew them.
7. And put christ to open shame. why do they do this? they say there is a sin which Christ did not pay the price for (now over 2000 years ago) and he must return to earth to die again for the sin he forgot to die for in the first place.

the context here is animal sacrifice. Hebrews says it never took away sin, and had to be repeated over and over. if we can 'fall away" or lose salvation.l Christ must return again and be crucified over and over for the sin which caused us to "fall away" to begin with.


I understand very well that the Hebrew letter is directed to Hebrew christians. This text has nothing to do with the old law or with animal sacrifices. Those under the law did not have access to share in the Holy Spirit and these have ONCE AGAIN crusified the Son of God to themselves, not animal sacrifices. These were christians that have fallen away from the gospel, not the law of Moses.

1. The writer is not saying that they claimed to have tasted, but presents a statement of fact - "They had tasted." But you are right in saying that they returned to the law. These has left the law in response to the gospel. Now that they are rejecting the cross and going bact to the law. This is the foundation they were "laying again."
2. I am assuming that you are using the KJV or the NIV. Am I correct? The UBS does not show this to be a Question. There is no "if" in the Greek. it simply says, παραπεσόντας - literally "having fallen away". This is a statement of fact based on actual cases, not a what if scenario.
3. Under the law, sin was not forgiven on the basis of those sacrifices, but on the basis of what those sacrifices represented - the cross. Lev. chapters 4 and 5 show us that they were indeed forgiven under the law. But it was not by the law. Even David understood this. "How blessed is the man whose transgression is forgiven, whose sins are covered...to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity," Psalms 32:1-2. But he also knew that those sacrifices were not the avenue through which forgiveness came. "Thou doest not delight in sacrifice or I would bring it it." Psalms 51:1-2.
4. The inability to renew again is not linked to a supposition of "IF" they were to fall away. The impossibility is linked to the fact that after having been saved they have rejected the cross, not the old sacrifices, and in so doing have shamed Christ openly.
5. The writer does not say they cannot be 'saved' again. He says that cannot be brought back to repentance again. I am sure you would agree however, that this would render them unable to be saved since there is no longer repentance.
6. He is not comparing the crucifying of Christ again to the repetitious offering of O.T. sacrifice. To those who have rejected and fallen away, they are considering Christ worthy of the crucifiction. Thery are rejecting him and his sacrifice. Like those of 10:29, they are considering the blood of Christ "BY WHICH THEY HAD BEEN SANCTIFIED" and unclean thing, and have insulted the Spirit of grace.
7. The writer's point is that these had been sanctified - made holy - something that all of the sacrifices of the O.T. combined could never do. In verse 29, he even draws a contrast between the one's he speaking of and those who died under the law for rejecting Moses. those who rejected the blood after having been cleansed by it are worther of greater punishment. Verse 30 shows their fate.

Thank your for your patience in awaiting my response.

 

[starfield]

Judas did not have any fruits of a man that was saved. His allegiance was with Rome, not with Christ. He was a "pretend" Christian. He "came out from among them but was not of them". Son of perdition. We are to expect a son of perdition, just like Judas, in the end times.

Apostasy is not a loss of salvation but rather a demonstration that salvation was never truly possessed in the first place (as in, no good fruits)

Definition of apostasy in Christianity: Renunciation of faith by someone who was formerly saved.
Apostates were once following Christ but then betray Him, fall away and do not plan on being restored to the faith. This is equivalent to crucifying Jesus afresh. When someone does that, are they saved from damnation and candidates for Heaven? No because the Lord is of purer eyes than to behold evil.

 

[Katy-follower]

Definition of apostasy in Christianity: Renunciation of faith by someone who was formerly saved.
Apostates were once following Christ but then betray Him, fall away and do not plan on being restored to the faith. This is equivalent to crucifying Jesus afresh. When someone does that, are they saved from damnation and candidates for Heaven? No because the Lord is of purer eyes than to behold evil.

This does not give evidence that the person leaving was actually saved to begin with. I prefer to trust the bible's definition when it says we will know a person by their fruits.

Once you are born again you cannot undo it and be un-born again, the HS does not leave a person. Some people backslide which means they miss out on blessings in this life and rewards when they get to heaven - but most are drawn back from their backsliden state at some point. It is not possible for a person that has been brought out of darkness with their eyes now open to unbelieve in God and say he denys the gospel. Impossible. If a person turns away from God/leaves their 'faith' then were they ever saved to begin with? Because... those saved are covered by the blood of Jesus, brought out of darkness and are changed. A person who has the truth does not swap their truth for a falsehood.

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us" - this happened in the days of the disciples and still happens today.

 

[Tru2JHWH]

To me OSAS is just peoples philosophy. There is an overwhelmingly amount of scriptures that say a person can be saved and still fall away from the faith. No way that the New Testament would warn us over and over again about something that cant happen.

And it is true that we are all bad. By going bad I mean you abandon your faith. We are saved by faith and not by works, but if people think they can be a Christian and just live life however they choose and still go to heaven, thats not true. We have to turn from certain life styles. We have to be "washed". I know people can have strongholds in their life, and God is very patient with those who are trying, but you have to be trying.

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

That's the point I was trying to reach when I wrote this thread. Yes people can lose their salvation. Christians having faith are gonna have the deeds to show for it. And we are going to sin daily but there is a different in sinning from time to time and living a sinful life style. Just like someone posted earlier we have to fight for what is right which means going back to what the scripture says because everybody can't be right. And I want to give a shoutout to that special person who thinks Satan started this thread. Thanks for your input regardless.

Be Blessed!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's the point I was trying to reach when I wrote this thread. Yes people can lose their salvation. Christians having faith are gonna have the deeds to show for it. And we are going to sin daily but there is a different in sinning from time to time and living a sinful life style. Just like someone posted earlier we have to fight for what is right which means going back to what the scripture says because everybody can't be right. And I want to give a shoutout to that special person who thinks Satan started this thread. Thanks for your input regardless.

Be Blessed!

And thats the point for those arguing against your belief.

The people who say they are saved but continue to live a life of sin did not lose salvation, THEY NEVER HAD IT. You can't lose something you never had.

The major issue with this is law. Those who say one can lose salvation because of sin are placing us ALL back under law. When the real issue is repentance. One who truly repents will show a changed life. One who has not will never change. it is quite simple. If you say you have faith, but HAVE NO WORKS, your faith is dead, a dead faith will save no one.