Gay marriage
- Thread starter joshhuntnm
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I
If you want to over drink can you? if you want a tattoo can you? if you want to kill can you? YES to all of the above and all the evil you can think of... it does not make them right in the eyes of the lord... But we are born into sin and can be forgiven, RIGHT??? so who should we be to judge???? Let gays get married. its love.. even if you believe its wrong.. its love, in there own way... its not like gays go out get married turn into the natural born killers and go out and kill people. They have a relationship based off of love like anyone else. Its just different.. and if there was no sin in the world there would be no judge!!!!
U
1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
now thats some dynamite topic
so those gays should rather end up being frowned upon ?
banning gay marriage wont turn those gays into "normal" people again but unhappy people instead.
so please tell me how gay marriage conflicts with anything that isn't gay ?
its simply a personal preference.
think about how ridiculously it would be if you really..i mean really liked cheese with nutella on top but you can't eat it in public because it is seen as a sin.
as long as your habit of eating cheese together with chocolate cream doesn't interfere with anyones freedom you should be good to go, right ?
so again, how does gay marriage interfere with your freedom ?
so those gays should rather end up being frowned upon ?
banning gay marriage wont turn those gays into "normal" people again but unhappy people instead.
so please tell me how gay marriage conflicts with anything that isn't gay ?
its simply a personal preference.
think about how ridiculously it would be if you really..i mean really liked cheese with nutella on top but you can't eat it in public because it is seen as a sin.
as long as your habit of eating cheese together with chocolate cream doesn't interfere with anyones freedom you should be good to go, right ?
so again, how does gay marriage interfere with your freedom ?
U
That was my 'true personality, in a loving, honest, heart with Christ' answer.
What i really wish is non-Christians to stop coming on this CHRISTIAN site whining about people using the bible. If you don't want to hear biblical answers perhaps you should try a site where the foundation of group of peoples beliefs isn't the bible.
What i really wish is non-Christians to stop coming on this CHRISTIAN site whining about people using the bible. If you don't want to hear biblical answers perhaps you should try a site where the foundation of group of peoples beliefs isn't the bible.
F
I haven't decided for certain yet but that same suggestion given you Josh I have been contemplating. Why was government involved with marriages in the first place? Homosexual actions are wrong in the sight of the Lord. Let marriage be left up to God and his church. On the other hand I'm worried this idea could become a semantics issue. If all we're doing is giving gay marriage a name other than marriage what's the real difference? Perhaps the question answers itself.
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose. By any other name would smell as sweet."
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose. By any other name would smell as sweet."
I think he whines about blind people. I'm not saying the bible is bad for many matters but you should use it as a guidance so you know in which direction you need to look, not as a guide so you can close your eyes and ears and follow blindly.
Yeah, who would have thought that an old artifact can't address every problem in these modern days .
Sorry sir, but church hasn't proven itself to be a good representative of god and his interests.
And again, not allowing gays to marry won't turn them back in any way. They are just not married then.
How can a matter of such little importance grieve onto certain people because it doesn't line up with their interpretation of the bible..
"Gay marriage," just at city hall but certainly in church, makes a mockery of God's own institution. So as a christian i cannot approve of it.
True, marriage in city hall is just an adminstrative matter that grands two people certain rights. In that it's bascially the same as a civil union. But i, as a christian, just can't agree with a government that facilitates the gay lifestyle through "gay marriage."
True, marriage in city hall is just an adminstrative matter that grands two people certain rights. In that it's bascially the same as a civil union. But i, as a christian, just can't agree with a government that facilitates the gay lifestyle through "gay marriage."
Would it be okay then if gays had a separate but almost parallel religion compared to Christianity ?
What if they interpret the bible in a way that is more friendly towards gays and gay marriage ? Maybe they'll even get their own type of church.
After all, god loves beings who love, nay ?
Think about this:
Gays aren't "made", they are born this way. What happens to them in their childhood when they don't yet know about their affinity ? Why would god abandon his child when it can't even take credit for a sin ? How would you react if someone pulled you to justice for a "crime" you didn't willingly commit ?
What if they interpret the bible in a way that is more friendly towards gays and gay marriage ? Maybe they'll even get their own type of church.
After all, god loves beings who love, nay ?
Think about this:
Gays aren't "made", they are born this way. What happens to them in their childhood when they don't yet know about their affinity ? Why would god abandon his child when it can't even take credit for a sin ? How would you react if someone pulled you to justice for a "crime" you didn't willingly commit ?
please explain.
for me the church is the middleman in this deal and middlemen are usually the type to take advantages for themselves.
don't get me wrong, but at least here in Germany the church is an honorable institution because it performs many good deeds.
I guess the church in America performs almost identical because they both share the same origin and the same ideals.
but their say about god isn't nearly as pure as just the connection between a woman/man and god. so why would i want a middleman in this relationship ? what use does it have ? if i doubt god or am unsure about him in any way, how can a man or the church for that matter possibly be more convincing/true/pure ?
I don't believe the bible is "just" an artifact,i know it is THE artifact that helped society and mankind rise to the position it takes today.
I know this isn't a new issue entirely but an aging civilization gains key insight or major knowledge almost every decade and the pace is slowly going faster every day.
It's members clearly have more knowledge than any older generations and this new insight interferes with the old insights, checked upon, validated and so on. You know, the normal learning process.
While the bible might have been entirely accurate back then, it has to be reinterpret with the knowledge you gained over time.
and one more thing about the church and the so called self-proclaimed messengers:
http://christianchat.com/christian-...threat-homosexuality-pastor-scott-lively.html
look at this. it didn't watch it myself but the title is speaking for itself.
it freaks me out. thats why i want to cut out the middleman entirely if the church actually supports this.
i mean..really ?
for me the church is the middleman in this deal and middlemen are usually the type to take advantages for themselves.
don't get me wrong, but at least here in Germany the church is an honorable institution because it performs many good deeds.
I guess the church in America performs almost identical because they both share the same origin and the same ideals.
but their say about god isn't nearly as pure as just the connection between a woman/man and god. so why would i want a middleman in this relationship ? what use does it have ? if i doubt god or am unsure about him in any way, how can a man or the church for that matter possibly be more convincing/true/pure ?
I don't believe the bible is "just" an artifact,i know it is THE artifact that helped society and mankind rise to the position it takes today.
I know this isn't a new issue entirely but an aging civilization gains key insight or major knowledge almost every decade and the pace is slowly going faster every day.
It's members clearly have more knowledge than any older generations and this new insight interferes with the old insights, checked upon, validated and so on. You know, the normal learning process.
While the bible might have been entirely accurate back then, it has to be reinterpret with the knowledge you gained over time.
and one more thing about the church and the so called self-proclaimed messengers:
http://christianchat.com/christian-...threat-homosexuality-pastor-scott-lively.html
look at this. it didn't watch it myself but the title is speaking for itself.
it freaks me out. thats why i want to cut out the middleman entirely if the church actually supports this.
i mean..really ?
T
I totally agree with you.
But just to play devil's advocate: the argument against the above would be that it doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that eating cheese with nutella is a sin.
And thanks for making me hungry, by the way.
A better example might be piercings. Getting pierced (ears, noses, belly buttons, whatever) is a sin according to the Bible. Should we make it illegal?
But just to play devil's advocate: the argument against the above would be that it doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that eating cheese with nutella is a sin.
And thanks for making me hungry, by the way.
A better example might be piercings. Getting pierced (ears, noses, belly buttons, whatever) is a sin according to the Bible. Should we make it illegal?
J
What I meant:
The Church is the actual Body of Christ on earth. Society tends to look at what they believe to be the Church (some of which, as you say, can simply be structured social clubs that perform good deeds) and mistake it for the Church. But, as I said, the difference is absolutely HUGE. If you are truly seeking Truth, as your chatname implies, don't settle for looking at the fake stuff, okay?
Consider this scripture:
Matthew 13:
24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
The true Church's function as a "middleman" is to share the love and truth of Christ with the world because they have a heart for those who are lost and hurting, not for personal gain. And because they know the penalties for "personal gain" and deception within the Body of Christ are SEVERE:
Acts 5:
Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2 With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet.
3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”
5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6 Then some young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.
7 About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 Peter asked her, “Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?”
“Yes,” she said, “that is the price.”
9 Peter said to her, “How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.”
10 At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.)
Scientific validation is another topic altogether. Twenty years from now (if the world is still in its broken condition) someone might read this and laugh at us for thinking we knew what we were talking about scientifically in 2012. I wonder how often the Creator looks down at us, smiles and shakes His head, as we ponder the amazing things He made, that still seem to be working incredibly well after all these years.
Be mindful not to confuse knowledge with wisdom. Doing so is as erroneous as believing the Church and the tares are one and the same.
I'm not a fan of clicking links regarding someone's religious opinions on a thing, especially "self-proclaimed messengers" ..especially with 101 degree fever, so I'll skip that last part.
Are you up for a challenge in which there is no way for you to lose? Pick up the Bible and read it rather than taking the word of others as to what it says. All of it. In context, not bits and pieces. I would recommend reading the New Testament first, because the Old Testament can be very confusing otherwise. Once you have done this, see if you still believe that it has little application to our daily lives. Pray for understanding and God will honor it. Who knows? Maybe God can use you to awaken your country and be the change you'd like to see with regard to matters of faith.
P.S. - I have a heart for your country, as I lived in Germany for seven years as a child (Mannheim, Heidelberg and Kaiserslautern).
The Church is the actual Body of Christ on earth. Society tends to look at what they believe to be the Church (some of which, as you say, can simply be structured social clubs that perform good deeds) and mistake it for the Church. But, as I said, the difference is absolutely HUGE. If you are truly seeking Truth, as your chatname implies, don't settle for looking at the fake stuff, okay?
Consider this scripture:
Matthew 13:
24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
The true Church's function as a "middleman" is to share the love and truth of Christ with the world because they have a heart for those who are lost and hurting, not for personal gain. And because they know the penalties for "personal gain" and deception within the Body of Christ are SEVERE:
Acts 5:
Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2 With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet.
3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”
5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6 Then some young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.
7 About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 Peter asked her, “Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?”
“Yes,” she said, “that is the price.”
9 Peter said to her, “How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.”
10 At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.)
Scientific validation is another topic altogether. Twenty years from now (if the world is still in its broken condition) someone might read this and laugh at us for thinking we knew what we were talking about scientifically in 2012.
I wonder how often the Creator looks down at us, smiles and shakes His head, as we ponder the amazing things He made, that still seem to be working incredibly well after all these years. Be mindful not to confuse knowledge with wisdom. Doing so is as erroneous as believing the Church and the tares are one and the same.
I'm not a fan of clicking links regarding someone's religious opinions on a thing, especially "self-proclaimed messengers"
..especially with 101 degree fever, so I'll skip that last part. Are you up for a challenge in which there is no way for you to lose? Pick up the Bible and read it rather than taking the word of others as to what it says. All of it. In context, not bits and pieces. I would recommend reading the New Testament first, because the Old Testament can be very confusing otherwise. Once you have done this, see if you still believe that it has little application to our daily lives.
Pray for understanding and God will honor it. Who knows? Maybe God can use you to awaken your country and be the change you'd like to see with regard to matters of faith. P.S. - I have a heart for your country, as I lived in Germany for seven years as a child (Mannheim, Heidelberg and Kaiserslautern).
T
First of all, let me be the first to say Guten Tag und Wilkommen!
The last time I was in Germany (which was before you were born -- and it was West Germany back then), Germany didn't have a "separation of Church and State" the way the U.S. does. As far as I know, that is still the case. Religion is taught in public schools, by someone licensed either in the Katholische (Catholic) or Evangelische (what we would call "Lutheran") church. And yet, even with this blending of church and state, weddings are totally separate.
If you want to be married in a church, you can certainly do so. And there are some lovely Cathedrals there, too! But you still have to go to a civil court house at some point and "get it done" or it won't be recognized as a legal marriage by the state.
It is completely possible to go through the Church wedding ceremony and opt not to go through the civil ceremony, but then you are not considered married by the state, and are not entitled to any of the rights marriage affords.
Similarly, many couples opt to be married by the German equivalent of a Justice of the Peace, and not go to church. Their marriage is completely valid in the eyes of the state. How God wishes to view that union is not their concern, and not really mine, either.
If this is no longer the case, let me know ... but I suspect it is still run that way. If anything, Germany has become more secular, less Christian, in the last 30 years since I was there.
I find it strange that here, in the U.S., where we have, supposedly, a separation of Church and State, we don't seem to be able to separate that institution, whereas most European countries that DON"T have a separation of Church and State are able to do it just fine. What's up with that?
The last time I was in Germany (which was before you were born -- and it was West Germany back then), Germany didn't have a "separation of Church and State" the way the U.S. does. As far as I know, that is still the case. Religion is taught in public schools, by someone licensed either in the Katholische (Catholic) or Evangelische (what we would call "Lutheran") church. And yet, even with this blending of church and state, weddings are totally separate.
If you want to be married in a church, you can certainly do so. And there are some lovely Cathedrals there, too! But you still have to go to a civil court house at some point and "get it done" or it won't be recognized as a legal marriage by the state.
It is completely possible to go through the Church wedding ceremony and opt not to go through the civil ceremony, but then you are not considered married by the state, and are not entitled to any of the rights marriage affords.
Similarly, many couples opt to be married by the German equivalent of a Justice of the Peace, and not go to church. Their marriage is completely valid in the eyes of the state. How God wishes to view that union is not their concern, and not really mine, either.
If this is no longer the case, let me know ... but I suspect it is still run that way. If anything, Germany has become more secular, less Christian, in the last 30 years since I was there.
I find it strange that here, in the U.S., where we have, supposedly, a separation of Church and State, we don't seem to be able to separate that institution, whereas most European countries that DON"T have a separation of Church and State are able to do it just fine. What's up with that?