Seventh Day Adventism

[LawofLove]

Of course you can because that (the biblical spine of your doctrine) is the device used to keep you there. Don't you understand this? It was in the wilderness that satan attempted to stand on scripture. Clearly if satan has an agenda it is to use scripture to pervert the church and any would be believers.

Sir I think you missed one of my threads--> http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/46603-inductive-bible-study.html <---link This is how I study my bible.

Now if you would like to point out something you feel is wrong with what I believe about any part of the bible I share then do so. But for you to sit here and tell me I got the bible wrong with out pointing out what part of the bible. I don't care much for your Opinion what you think about me, because its not about me its about Jesus and his word.

 

[Laodicea]

Of course you can because that (the biblical spine of your doctrine) is the device used to keep you there. Don't you understand this? It was in the wilderness that satan attempted to stand on scripture. Clearly if satan has an agenda it is to use scripture to pervert the church and any would be believers.

So which church do you go to? I hope you are not afraid to tell us?

 

[Laodicea]

The face of a servant of Satan.

She served her father the devil, served him well.

You need to be very careful how you judge.

 

[LawofLove]

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

 

[greatblue]

So which church do you go to? I hope you are not afraid to tell us?

I took a few days away from CC because of the very tired endeavors that I can get involved in. In many cases, I instigate some of these tired endeavors and continue to post and consider and...well, I fully know that I allow some of my use of CC to become idolatrous. Anyway...I post that for whatever it is worth to like believers who find this to be true for them as well.

Lao and Law of Love, I believe that as a believer and follower of Jesus Christ I am part of the body of Christ. I attend a nondenominational church with a statement of faith that holds to basic reformation theological statements of faith.

I did spend some time praying about all of the information in this post. My point is solely about paternity, which is really all I care to see, as to me that is the first major discernment issue. Why would I advance to further consider SDA when I initially discern that they have ventured on the wrong path? Now, SDA having a history in Miller becoming a "following", White being a "prophet", and the clear word written with ideas not in God's word, then that is the wrong path. Both of you have stated that you do not use the clear word, but attend a church that has allowed the clear word to become something used, despite promulgated to not be anything.

I hold on to Jesus only, namely through His word and the idea of sola scriptura. My understanding is that you hold on to a type of "church", the SDA, which formed around 150 years ago, which has much criticism for the paternity issues I have already raised.

Again, the Second Great Awakening birthed a great deal of nontrinitatrian systems as well as gnostic laden ideas. Miller's adventism is in company of those systems/movements. That may mean nothing to you, but means "flee" to me.

Bless you both. As always I hope my faith is genuine in believing Jesus Christ as the absolute Lord of my life. It is a daily journey to check if I am following Him, or myself, or even worse, someone else claiming to be him or having more knowledgeable of Him than just His word.

 

[cenallen]

“Seventh-day Adventism is incredibly complex”

Unlike the basic tenets of the Christian faith, Seventh-day Adventism is incredible complex. With an aberrant closed theology, it is no surprise that we found virtue in our closed minds. It was considered meritorious… to become “settled in the truth.” We felt sorry for the ignorance of those poor “non-Adventists” or “Sunday keepers” who were described in-house as heathen, outsiders, apostate Protestants, whores of Babylon, and their clergy as false shepherds. Sadly, we even made fun of people who believed in biblical Christianity like we do now. Utilizing typical cultic methodologies, Seventh-day Adventism employs the following spiritually-abusive strategies:

· Extreme authoritarian accountability, organizational structure, and a closed belief system.

· Information control that denigrates or cuts off outside sources of information—especially if critical of the group.

· Discouraging critical, rational thoughts and questions; for example, comment like, “Satan is the cause of all doubt; he wants to keep you from the truth,” or “Those former ministers and lay persons are actually full of pride. They think they know more than the entire church.”

· Excessive financial obligations that comprise a two-tier membership system (e.g., only “tithers” are allowed to hold church offices or positions of influence, no tithe funds can be used for local church needs like building expansion, maintenance, and church school needs). One hundred percent of the tithe funds go directly to several levels of hierarchical, administrative organizations. The local church properties are wholly-owned by the Conference. Ministers are appointed and paid by the Conference. Generally, only one offering per month is allowed for church expense—many non-tithe contributions are also remitted to the Conference treasury. The hierarchy essentially exerts almost total control over the local churches.

· Language manipulation—ascribing new “inside” or “in-house” meanings in ordinary words or use an excessive vocabulary subtly moving a person to want to become an insider. Largely, these aberrant linguistic problems have roots in their faulty hermeneutics. Others, like their exclusive “investigative judgment” and “shut door” terminology, are solely reflective of their subculture.

As a young minister, father, and departmental leader, I had little time to even think about questioning anything as I weekly preached perfectionist-type sermons to a receptive audience. The Lord has graciously forgiven me. Truly, God redeems our past to advance His kingdom. Additionally, He restores the years that the locusts ate—nothing is lost. Praise God!

Beyond Adventism - The Truth Re-Examined

 

[cenallen]

A wide spectrum of Seventh-day Adventists know very little about their history, doctrines, organizational structure, and governing policies. When an inquiring member determines that even one doctrinal pillar is not Biblical, it clearly creates concern that other teachings may not pass close scrutiny as well. Being born in the Millerite deception of the early 1840s, Adventism shortly thereafter imposed a vast assortment of cultic views on its disillusioned adherents:

· The exclusive investigative judgment doctrine, as the central core of their faith, teaches that the atonement was not completed at the Cross—initially delayed for 1800 years, it is still in the process of being completed [an anti-Gospel message indeed].

· The “shut door” teaching, later abandoned, that grace for sinners ended on October 22, 1844.

· Only 144,000 people would be saved—later abandoned as membership exceeded this number.

· Soul sleep/conditionalism/annihilationism was brought from the liberal Christian Connection Church by James White and Joseph Bates, early SDA pioneers.

· Those worshipping on Sunday will ultimately receive the mark of the beast.

· The final test will be Jewish Sabbath observance—even though the word “Sabbath” does not appear in the entire book of Revelation (nor in the book of Genesis as well). Adventists insist, however, that both books are significant in supporting their Sabbatarian views. Jesus is not their final test. Instead, they warn that the final test is all about a day of worship—creating a dividing wall in Christendom. The final test centers upon the created instead of upon the Creator Himself.

· That the Law (Torah) is split into two parts—a pick-and-choose tactic to impose Sabbatarianism on Christians.

· In the context of an imminent, forthcoming “National Sunday Law,” a death decree will be issued upon all loyal Sabbatarians. In the final crisis, they warn, &#147;Sunday keepers” are going to actually kill the “Sabbath keepers.”

· Satan bears our sins as typified by the scapegoat on the annual Day of Atonement. Thus, Satan has a meaningful, salvific role to perform in our salvation by eventually having to suffer for all our sins that are meticulously recorded in heaven (see Great Controversy, pages 422 & 485; Testimonies for the Church, vol. 5, page 475).

· Arianism, a belief held until the mid 1890s, teaches that Christ was created or “derived from the Father” as Ellen White would say it. Most current SDA beliefs were formulated by their Arian pioneers. Consequently, some of their doctrines are still tainted by this heresy.

· The latter rain or outpouring of the Holy Spirit is still in the future—a denial of Pentecost.

· The extrabiblical authority of their prophetess, messenger, and co-founder, Ellen G. White—acclaimed to be the “Spirit of Prophecy.” She remains the apple of the Adventist eye.

· That fallen humankind can reach perfection with divine assistance and flawlessly keep the Ten Commandments—a partnership for salvation (see COL, page 69). In other words, they believe that God helps us to save ourselves.

· That the created archangel, Michael, is actually Jesus Christ (akin to the Jehovah’s Witnesses view). This view seriously compromises the divinity of Jesus Christ.

· Our sins, once confessed and forgiven, may haunt us again and be held against us until the “blotting out” of sins occurs during the final phase of their exclusive investigative judgment that began in 1844; there are literally scores of other aberrant teachings, traditions, and unpublished standards that foster wholesale legalism and create uncertainty of one’s identity in Christ.

Beyond Adventism - The Truth Re-Examined

 

[cenallen]

The New Testament, being a later, clearer, superior, superseding, and final revelation, must be allowed to interpret the Old Testament—not the other way around. Growing up as an Adventist in western North Dakota, I well remember an elderly, German-speaking SDA evangelist who emphatically declared that the partition of Scripture into Old and New Testaments was purely “man-made.” Similarly, with the covenants, Seventh-day Adventists regard the New Covenant simply as a warmed-over Old Covenant. Thus, Christ becomes secondary in many of their doctrines to this very day—a point they would readily deny. The fact is that most of their doctrines were formulated under their Arian pioneers. This heretical legacy continues to taint and complicate many of the 28 fundamental beliefs they hold today. For example, it is most difficult—if not impossible—for them to exalt Christ above the importance of the legal Sabbath.

Ellen White sternly declared, “I saw that the holy Sabbath is, and will be, the separating wall between the true Israel of God and unbelievers…And if one believed, and kept the Sabbath,…and then gave it up…they would shut the gates of the Holy City against themselves, as sure as a God that rules in heaven above” (A Word to the Little Flock, page 18). Gratefully, under the New Covenant, there are no “separating walls.” This is a primary characteristic of the New Covenant. Sadly, according to Seventh-day Adventist understanding, Jesus Christ is not the unifying factor among God’s elect. Instead, it is the Jewish Sabbath. Notice that Ellen White, in the statement above, emphatically declares that former Sabbatarians will be excluded from entering “the gates of the Holy City.” Almost every religious conversation with an Adventist will automatically turn to Law observance, not to Jesus being our atoning Substitute and Savior. If in doubt, simply give it a try! We rest where God rests—in Christ and His finished work (see Hebrews 4). Jesus Christ is our True Sabbath Rest.

Beyond Adventism - The Truth Re-Examined

 

[cenallen]

Thankfully, we no longer adhere to a “roller-coaster” religion that teaches a fall from grace with every act of sin. This translates into Seventh-day Adventists living in fear of losing their salvation several times a day. Let us, instead, embrace the promise of “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus” (Phil. 1:6 NIV). After all, we are sinners saved by grace. The central core of the Gospel is the assurance that we can be right with God right now. This is good news, indeed! Truly, we can trust God’s Word. No true believer ever loses his salvation. To be sure, Christians fall at times seriously and radically, but never fully and finally. We persevere because God preserves us. Christianity, in the truest sense, is not a religion but rather a relationship with Jesus Christ. The rebellious sin problem is of utmost concern to our Heavenly Father.

Beyond Adventism - The Truth Re-Examined

 

[cenallen]

Sadly, according to Seventh-day Adventist understanding, Jesus Christ is not the unifying factor among God’s elect. Instead, it is the Jewish Sabbath. Notice that Ellen White, in the statement above, emphatically declares that former Sabbatarians will be excluded from entering “the gates of the Holy City.”

Beyond Adventism - The Truth Re-Examined

FREEMASONRY & JUDAISM

by Paul M. Bessel

(prepared July 1989, revised September 1995)

This paper was prepared to accompany presentations February 15, 1989, at Annandale Royal Arch Chapter No. 77; May 5, 1989, at Mt. Vernon Royal Arch Chapter No. 14; and July 11, 1989, at Henry Knox Field Lodge No. 349. It was revised for presentations September 5, at Skidmore Daylight Lodge No. 237; and October 2, 1995, at Elmer Timberman Lodge No. 54.

Judaism teaches that God's law is contained in the Torah, which is the Jewish Bible and the first 5 books of all Bibles. Jews are taught that the Torah is the eternal law given to us by God who has said it is complete, will never be changed even by God, and can never be altered by any mortal.(10) This can be compared with the statement in the Masonic charges that it is not in the power of any man or body of men to make innovations in the body of Masonry.(11) In both cases this may sound unduly rigid, but in both cases it is only the fundamentals that remain unchanged. Masonry and Judaism, as well as other religions and statements of ethical standards, teach that we must discipline ourselves and keep our passions in check. We follow rituals in synagogues and in Masonic lodges to help us develop this ability

There are many other similarities between the best aspects of Freemasonry and Judaism. Some are on the highest level, such as belief in God and ethical behavior toward all people, and some are as mundane as the tradition of having food after completion of the rituals.

Masonry teaches that those who are morally fit can find "light" in Masonry if they desire it of their own free will. The concept of exercising free will to accept the law and atone for past transgressions is what Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur are about. Jews believe the ten days at the start of our new year are to be used to atone for past sins and resolve to try harder to avoid sin in the future. Similarly, Freemasonry teaches that all men should strive to improve themselves morally and rid themselves of all prejudices.

Light is an important symbol in both Freemasonry and Judaism.(13) One of the Jewish holidays is Chanukah, called the Festival of Lights, commemorating the victory of the Jewish people over those who had made the practice of our religion a crime punishable by death around 165 B.C.E. (B.C.E. stands for Before Common Era, and is used in the Jewish religion as the equivalent of B.C.). Light is also an important symbol in Masonry, representing the Divine spirit, religious freedom, and rededication of the Temple in Jerusalem and of the spiritual Temple within each of us.(14)

One of the fundamental symbols of Masonry is the Temple of Solomon, which also figured as the central part of the Jewish religion. King Solomon, one of the greatest figures in Jewish history, is also one of the most important figures in Masonic rituals, and the majority of that ritual is based on stories about the building of Solomon's Temple.


Judaism

 

[cenallen]

Acts 15 1And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. 2When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. 3And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren. 4And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. 5But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

6And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

12Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

13And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 19Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

22Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren: 23And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: 24Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: 25It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. 28For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

 

[LawofLove]

“Seventh-day Adventism is incredibly complex”

Unlike the basic tenets of the Christian faith, Seventh-day Adventism is incredible complex. With an aberrant closed theology, it is no surprise that we found virtue in our closed minds. It was considered meritorious… to become “settled in the truth.” We felt sorry for the ignorance of those poor “non-Adventists” or “Sunday keepers” who were described in-house as heathen, outsiders, apostate Protestants, whores of Babylon, and their clergy as false shepherds. Sadly, we even made fun of people who believed in biblical Christianity like we do now. Utilizing typical cultic methodologies, Seventh-day Adventism employs the following spiritually-abusive strategies:

· Extreme authoritarian accountability, organizational structure, and a closed belief system.

· Information control that denigrates or cuts off outside sources of information—especially if critical of the group.

· Discouraging critical, rational thoughts and questions; for example, comment like, “Satan is the cause of all doubt; he wants to keep you from the truth,” or “Those former ministers and lay persons are actually full of pride. They think they know more than the entire church.”

· Excessive financial obligations that comprise a two-tier membership system (e.g., only “tithers” are allowed to hold church offices or positions of influence, no tithe funds can be used for local church needs like building expansion, maintenance, and church school needs). One hundred percent of the tithe funds go directly to several levels of hierarchical, administrative organizations. The local church properties are wholly-owned by the Conference. Ministers are appointed and paid by the Conference. Generally, only one offering per month is allowed for church expense—many non-tithe contributions are also remitted to the Conference treasury. The hierarchy essentially exerts almost total control over the local churches.

· Language manipulation—ascribing new “inside” or “in-house” meanings in ordinary words or use an excessive vocabulary subtly moving a person to want to become an insider. Largely, these aberrant linguistic problems have roots in their faulty hermeneutics. Others, like their exclusive “investigative judgment” and “shut door” terminology, are solely reflective of their subculture.

As a young minister, father, and departmental leader, I had little time to even think about questioning anything as I weekly preached perfectionist-type sermons to a receptive audience. The Lord has graciously forgiven me. Truly, God redeems our past to advance His kingdom. Additionally, He restores the years that the locusts ate—nothing is lost. Praise God!

Beyond Adventism - The Truth Re-Examined

The fact that you cant even wright your own thread tells me you follow man and don't have understanding for your self. All I see is a bunch of copy and paste from a web site. The bible says 2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

This is talking about studying the word of God not some web sits and Opinion. This is getting old and very childish.

 

[Laodicea]

The fact that you cant even wright your own thread tells me you follow man and don't have understanding for your self. All I see is a bunch of copy and paste from a web site. The bible says 2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

This is talking about studying the word of God not some web sits and Opinion. This is getting old and very childish.

I agree it is childish and shows spiritual immaturity. All he is doing is to copy and paste from sites that are critical. It looks like he has no info of his own, he is not prepared to have a proper Bible study in the spirit of Christ.

 

[cenallen]

The fact that you cant even wright your own thread tells me you follow man and don't have understanding for your self. All I see is a bunch of copy and paste from a web site. The bible says 2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

This is talking about studying the word of God not some web sits and Opinion. This is getting old and very childish.

this thread is about the cult known as
Re: Seventh Day Adventism

 

[cenallen]

I agree it is childish and shows spiritual immaturity. All he is doing is to copy and paste from sites that are critical. It looks like he has no info of his own, he is not prepared to have a proper Bible study in the spirit of Christ.

a proper bible study?
Ellen White style?
not happening.

In the Bible, the obelisk was used in Baal worship. In one Old Testament account, the priests of God killed the Baal worshippers on God's orders, and their obelisks were destroyed:4

"&#8230; King Jehu said to the guards and to the officers, 'Go in and slay them; let none escape'. And they smote them with the sword; and the guards before the king threw their bodies out, and went into the inner dwelling of the house of Baal. They brought out the obelisks [pillars] of the house of Baal and burned them." [2 Kings 10:26, Amplified Bible]

It is quite unsettling that a symbol of the Egyptian Sun god appears on the burial site of James and Ellen White.


all this talk of SDA obedience.
the truth hidden in plain sight.

why not denounce White? there might be some credibility, then.

 

[Bea22]

Can I just get a word in............ please? Haha I have to ask a question?

I just want to know how believing Michael is Jesus is compromising the divinity of Jesus? What are people's thoughts about that?
If someone can enlighten me?

 

[Laodicea]

Can I just get a word in............ please? Haha I have to ask a question?

I just want to know how believing Michael is Jesus is compromising the divinity of Jesus? What are people's thoughts about that?
If someone can enlighten me?

Michael means one who is like God. Archangel means chief of the angels.

 

[Bea22]

Michael means one who is like God. Archangel means chief of the angels.

Ok thanks

 

[Laodicea]

Ok thanks

We have always said that Jesus is God and in no way do we ever make Him out to be an angel. Even though some may say we do but, that is all not true.

 

[Johny]

Friend, what you propose here is impossible. William Miller created the adventist movement and used false human predictions of Jesus' second coming to hold people to the faith. He did so in a way that the followers actually became known as "millerites". Again, the question should always be, "Who am I following?" The answer is quite clear by the name spoken, which in this case is clearly not Christ. Regardless, the concept of adventism started with William Miller, full stop.

Now Ellen White's parents joined the millerite movement when she was 12, which simultaneously broke their previous ties to the methodist faith. So for White's teenage years and beyond she grew up in the millerite movement and eventually married a millerite. Why? Well at 12 her parents followed the advent teaching of William Miller. Mind you, Miller's prediction ended in great disappointment. Why? Because people weren't following Christ, they were following a prediction made by a sinful man who claimed to be so inspired to "know". With so many existing followers suddenly left gasping for answers, Ellen G. White takes the stage with her own visionary gift. The 12 year old girl became the next prophetic voice. Although the voice all along should have been Jesus', alone.

So then Ellen G. White, a millerite, advanced the adventist church? And to rebut your claim, the investigative judgement doctrine in SDA is very much White's influence.

I just don't understand how a person involved in SDA cannot see the reckoning of all of this. As I stated, it is a paternity issue. To claim that SDA doctrine isn't based on Miller or White is impossible on multiple fronts as their sinful DNA is all over adventism and its various seventh day offshoots. However, to hear Jesus in Matt 16:24 and understand that it is about following Him, not Miller or White, is just as applicable today as it was 150 years ago when SDA ancestors were called millerites rather than Christ followers.

False accusations? By your statement above you seem to deny where your "faith/church" comes from. It is actually quite hard for me to fathom because this is all about legitimacy. You knock out the legs from the table and the table crashes to the floor. And I am not trying to be rude or combative...but I'm not going to stop pointing to a discernment issue that some may start to reflect upon.

You are waisting your time. SDA's can't see because they don't want to see, very common in cult members. They will never investigate anything that you post and if they feel cornered they will turn violent and sarcastic. Why listening to people like you when they already have the truth, "Sabbath"? They have submitted their judgment completely to their rullers (Judaizers)....