Book Of Enoch?
- Thread starter Katy-follower
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
J
That is quite erroneous. The book of Enoch is only part of the Ethiopian Orthodox and Eritirean Orthodox bibles.
Secondarily, a majority vote isn't what proves something to be true. The majority of people in history have not been Christian. Also, the majority of people who have claimed to be Christian were not.
Secondarily, a majority vote isn't what proves something to be true. The majority of people in history have not been Christian. Also, the majority of people who have claimed to be Christian were not.
S
Yes. No one disputes the translation of Enoch from Greek into Geez (Ethiopian) is the only whole copy in existence.
The Geez version (and the Greek) are predated by the Aramaic version the majority of which survives. It has been dated to the 3rd century BC. Geez was not even spoken in the 3rd century BC.
The Ethiopian copies are quite late, though highly reliable, but late nonetheless. Not one of them is even 1,000 years old. Aramaic Enoch is older than most Biblical texts being 2,300 years old.
The Geez version (and the Greek) are predated by the Aramaic version the majority of which survives. It has been dated to the 3rd century BC. Geez was not even spoken in the 3rd century BC.
The Ethiopian copies are quite late, though highly reliable, but late nonetheless. Not one of them is even 1,000 years old. Aramaic Enoch is older than most Biblical texts being 2,300 years old.
Last edited:
There are three threads on Enoch that have been posted to within the last hour, these are:
LINKS:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/18290-enoch.html?highlight=enoch
http://christianchat.com/christian-young-adults-forum/1217-1-enoch-book-enoch.html?highlight=enoch
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/47228-book-enoch.html?highlight=enoch
Why not get together and share your insights and knowledge (not trying to hi-jack or cross-thread, just consolidate for simplicity and greater edification)
LINKS:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/18290-enoch.html?highlight=enoch
http://christianchat.com/christian-young-adults-forum/1217-1-enoch-book-enoch.html?highlight=enoch
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/47228-book-enoch.html?highlight=enoch
Why not get together and share your insights and knowledge (not trying to hi-jack or cross-thread, just consolidate for simplicity and greater edification)
R
enoch is just one book in a whole genre of superstitious gobbledygook that was intended to 'fill in the blanks' in scripture with speculation and imagination...
jude's letter actually provides an argument -against- the canonicity of the book of enoch...jude quotes a prophecy given by enoch before the flood...but it is widely known that the book of enoch was written beginning in the third century BC and -not- by the biblical enoch... jude is clearly quoting the real enoch...and not the fictional book of enoch...
jude's letter actually provides an argument -against- the canonicity of the book of enoch...jude quotes a prophecy given by enoch before the flood...but it is widely known that the book of enoch was written beginning in the third century BC and -not- by the biblical enoch... jude is clearly quoting the real enoch...and not the fictional book of enoch...
C
Sorry but i do know about this topic
These books were written over a period of time when God was not speaking or commanding His people to write, why do you think the books we have today were approved by the cannon??? These other books were not approved and seen as false because they did NOT meet the requirements of the cannon
Don't be a jerk
These books were written over a period of time when God was not speaking or commanding His people to write, why do you think the books we have today were approved by the cannon??? These other books were not approved and seen as false because they did NOT meet the requirements of the cannon
Don't be a jerk
S
The point is often made that since The Epistle of Jude merely cites a single passage from the Book of Enoch, Jude cannot be seen as endorsing the Book of Enoch as a whole.
Upon closer examination of Jude’s letter, however, we can see there are at least seven places where Jude either directly quotes or refers to the contents of Enoch. Jude does not merely cite a passage from the Book of Enoch, Jude was a veritable Book of Enoch expert!
There are at least 7 places in his letter in which Jude, through the inspiration of God, either quotes directly or refers to 1 Enoch (aka The Book of Enoch, or Ethiopic Enoch):
P.S. There may be other references I have missed.
P.P.S. As an added bonus, in 2 Peter 2:4, Saint Peter gives us a confirming witness to the Apostolic usage of the Book of Enoch.
Copyright © 2006-2012, R.I. Burns
(Excerpted from the "The Book of Enoch: Messianic Prophecy Edition")
Upon closer examination of Jude’s letter, however, we can see there are at least seven places where Jude either directly quotes or refers to the contents of Enoch. Jude does not merely cite a passage from the Book of Enoch, Jude was a veritable Book of Enoch expert!
There are at least 7 places in his letter in which Jude, through the inspiration of God, either quotes directly or refers to 1 Enoch (aka The Book of Enoch, or Ethiopic Enoch):
- First, Jude calls Enoch a prophet, despite the fact no explicit prophecy (though some see an implicit prophecy in Methuselah's name) and no book of the prophecies of Enoch can be found in our 66-book Bible common in Western Christendom. Jude alone, among the 40 or so writers in the Bible seems aware of this fact. However, the Book of Enoch everywhere records the prophecies of Enoch, so we can see Jude agrees with the Book of Enoch on this point. Enoch is to be numbered among the prophets.
- Jude 1:6 refers to, "angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling". This is a reference to Enoch 6:6, "They were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it."
- Further, Jude 1:6, relates these were angels which, "he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day" We see this outlined for us later in the book in Enoch 10:12, "Bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is for ever and ever is consummated. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: and to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever."
- Jude also tells us in verse 6, the angels are bound, "...until the judgment of the great day", which is also described in Enoch 54:6, "Michael, and Gabriel, and Raphael, and Phanuel shall take hold of them on that great day, and cast them on that day into the burning furnace, that the Lord of Spirits may take vengeance on them for their unrighteousness in becoming subject to Satan and leading astray those who dwell on the earth."
- In Jude 1:7, the apostle says the sin of these angels was sexual immorality and that Sodom's sin was of the same class as those angels, "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh"; the sexual nature of the angels' sin is corroborated in Enoch 7:1, "All the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them"
- Then there's Jude 1:14 which oddly calculates Enoch was the 7th from Adam, "It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied". But to reckon it this way, Adam's generation has to be counted too; Enoch 60:8, reckons the generations in the identical fashion where Noah says, "where my grandfather was taken up, the seventh from Adam"
- Finally, Jude 1:14-15 caps it off by quoting The Book of Enoch directly as being the source of a prophecy regarding the 2nd-coming of Jesus Christ, "Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him." This quote can be found in Enoch 1:9, "Behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones to execute judgement upon all, and to destroy all the ungodly: and to convict all flesh of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
P.S. There may be other references I have missed.
P.P.S. As an added bonus, in 2 Peter 2:4, Saint Peter gives us a confirming witness to the Apostolic usage of the Book of Enoch.
Copyright © 2006-2012, R.I. Burns
(Excerpted from the "The Book of Enoch: Messianic Prophecy Edition")
O
I'm sure there are many threads created for the gnostics somewhere but a fair word of warning to you, sister - the content in these books may often sound similar to passages and verses found in Scripture. However, the danger lies in the minor nuances.
A friend once tried to convince me to read them and take it for truth. He used the witness testimony analogy - that if Jesus went up to a bunch of women to say, "Good morning," witnesses might record the incident as "hi" or "greetings." His point is that the gnostics (such as the Gospel of Thomas) is merely one viewpoint from a witness. My response is that what if it's recorded as, "Hey, babe, lookin' hot there"? It's still a greeting but now we've introduced a sexual overtone. That's what the gnostics are like - they introduce minor differences that are difficult to sift out.
CARM published an excellent summary of points: http://carm.org/gnosticism. My recommendation: solidify your base with proper systematic theology - the tried and true understandings - so that you'll be equipped to detect the nuances. Then go back to the gnostics if your heart so desires. The gnostics will always be there and I know your heart yearns and desires to learn everything and anything about our Lord. However, there's no point in heading down that path and paying for it in some way because of impatience. Even learning requires patience! It's just not worth the trouble of grieving the Holy Spirit.
A friend once tried to convince me to read them and take it for truth. He used the witness testimony analogy - that if Jesus went up to a bunch of women to say, "Good morning," witnesses might record the incident as "hi" or "greetings." His point is that the gnostics (such as the Gospel of Thomas) is merely one viewpoint from a witness. My response is that what if it's recorded as, "Hey, babe, lookin' hot there"? It's still a greeting but now we've introduced a sexual overtone. That's what the gnostics are like - they introduce minor differences that are difficult to sift out.
CARM published an excellent summary of points: http://carm.org/gnosticism. My recommendation: solidify your base with proper systematic theology - the tried and true understandings - so that you'll be equipped to detect the nuances. Then go back to the gnostics if your heart so desires. The gnostics will always be there and I know your heart yearns and desires to learn everything and anything about our Lord. However, there's no point in heading down that path and paying for it in some way because of impatience. Even learning requires patience! It's just not worth the trouble of grieving the Holy Spirit.