The Fixed Earth

[Cup-of-Ruin]

To goofy: This is the kind of nonsense I was talking about. To Cup: they're not "simulated" images - I've taken images of distant galaxies myself:
http://speur.tripod.com/astropics/index.album/ngc-891?i=50&s=1
http://speur.tripod.com/astropics/index.album/m64?i=39&s=1
Nasa isn't fake either, I've seen the space station and space shuttle in orbit for myself and I have the pictures to prove it:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3034/2364205053_6a53e86e58_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2154/2110105639_493fe9b3ee_o.jpg
Your theory is wrong and your accusations are false.

Greetings again,

Oh there is a space station up there, you can send a coke can into orbit if you like it's not hard.

However those other images you display are simulated, you have a small computer in your telescope that artificually simulates what your telescope does not see, in fact one with the spirit can see straight away that your images are fake. If you would like to provide me with the details of your telescope I will explain to you further how this is achieved, just state the make, and a general technical description of your telescope and it's components.

 

[Slepsog4]

Cup,

I have seen the pendulum. This one was on the campus of a Christian University. It was not "rigged".

 

[MahogonySnail]

I think you are make yourself quite clear, you don't believe the Bible to be factual and you say that the Prophets and Apostles have 'borrowed' from Egyptian and Babylonian mythology! Spoken like a true pagan 'Snail.

The ancient Hebrews had the Egyptians to the southwest and the Babylonians to the northeast. Both civilizations had flat-earth cosmologies. We also know that God's people spent much time in Egypt, and also spent time in Babylon. The Biblical cosmology closely parallels the Sumero-Babylonian cosmology, and it may also draw upon Egyptian cosmology.

So, you haven't fooled me with your talk about how you supposedly get your knowledge about the universe and science only from the bible. The truth is that you hold to a Ptolemaic geocentric view which is from Greek Philosophy, not the bible. Perhaps you are the pagan then . And you shamelessly misquote scripture to support the Ptolemaic view you hold to. If you did get your views from the bible alone, you would also believe in a flat-earth. Flat-earthers hold more literally and strictly to what the bible says than you do. Arguments that claim that the bible holds to a spherical earth and not a flat earth are weak, and are the product of modern invention from people who attempt to prove that the bible is not contradictary to modern day science.

Furthermore, your paranoia about NASA convinces me you are not of sound mind. One of the hallmarks of a Christian is a sound mind (2 Tim 1:7), Yet much of your statements about NASA etc indicates insanity. Not to mention your believing conspiracy theories including the myths about Tesla's EM work.


Quote:
If you can point us to the verse where Jesus declared a geocentric earth model to His disciples in all his scientific importance, please do.

But you just said the Bible is non-scientific and non-factual and borrowed from pagan mythology, see how you condecendingly say about our Lord "in all his scientific importance" that is dorogatory, you 'Snail are a nasty little devil aren't you, showing your true colours now,.

I was not condesecending, I was making the point that Jesus did not declare any sort of scientific knowledge about the universe etc to his disciples, as far as I'm aware. Jesus did not come to Earth to be a scientist, and the bible was not written for scientific purpose, to satisfy your quest for scientific fact.. Yet you claim that they did in a previous statement:

quote:

and Christ and the Apostles and the Lord Most High Himself were just ignorant and backward and had no idea what they were talking about

So I ask again, please provide these quotes from the new testament where Christ or the apostles clearly and unequivocally presented a geocentric view. If you can't, then I prove my point.

Because I only see evidence of flat earth throughout even the new testament:

Rev 20:8 And he will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle. The number of them is as the sand of the sea.


Rev 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
And the word for quarter there is angle or corner as Strong's says. And there are four of them. Much harder for you to prove a spherical earth from those verses. Because a sphere only has two poles, north and south. How can an angel stand on a third and fourth corner with a spherical earth model? The only explanation for these verses is their symbolic or figurative meaning, not their literal one. And this is where you err. If you are spiritual and not carnal you should be able to interpret the true meaning of the passages about the earth in Isaiah and elsewhere and not be fixated with crazed ideas that are contradictary to modern-day scientific established fact.






Quote:
No, you say that as a buffoon, not as a Christian. I am surprised though that you don't think the earth is flat and square shaped, afterall the bible does say the earth has FOUR corners:

That is lie 'Snail, a false accusation...you bear false witness against me, I along with the Bible state that the world is spherical, but you do lie and say that the Bible and I say that the world is flat, that is lie, which makes you a liar.

If we are going to play the 'who is a liar' game, actually it makes you a liar for not admitting that the bible says the earth has corners and the earth is flat, and basically claiming that the bible presents a Ptolemaic view which is from Greek philosophy, not the bible.

Christians know exactly what the Bible says, you are bearing false witness against God's word, you are accusing God of stating that the Earth is flat and that He is lying, that is not what the Bible says, what the Bible says is quite clear, anybody with the Spirit can understand perfectly well what Isaiah is saying.

I am simply misinterpreting the scriptures to prove a flat earth in the same manner in which you misinterpret scripture to prove a fixed earth and geocentric model. It's not so hard to do and takes minimal intelligence.





Quote:
And it cannot mean corners created by dicing a sphere, because this would have more than 4 corners, and spheres don't have corners.

from the ends of the earth, from the four quarters of the earth, from the pinnicles of the earth, from the earth's extremities,, the outer wings of the earth, the Earth uttermost parts!

Jer. 49:22 "Behold, he shall come up and fly as the eagle, and spread his wings [#3671 kanaph]"

Isa. 24:16 "From the uttermost part [#3671 Kanaph] of the earth"

It says the four corners of the earth. The earth doesn't have outer wings either, it isn't a bird. The only plausable explanation is that FOUR corners means a rectangular shaped object, not a sphere. But if you want to disagree with what the bible says... you may have an interesting time at Judgement Day .

 

[Grimaldus]

So you propose a secular state, what about the satanic atheist beast system we have now, yes you are misunderstood, how should we pray? "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" If you do not believe in a literal kingdom of God that is coming to Earth and if you do not believe that God literally came in the flesh and literally gave in His own divine blood, to establish a literal covenant and a literal kingdom of God on Earth, then you do not truly believe! if you do not believe in the Kingdom coming to Earth where there is no seperation of secular state and the church of God because christ rules over all then you are not a Christian, kid... simple as that.

Well, a government has a priority to support religion. All religions. Frankly I beleive a governmental religion would alow people to be suppressed, and that would be an outrage to any free society.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Well, a government has a priority to support religion. All religions. Frankly I beleive a governmental religion would alow people to be suppressed, and that would be an outrage to any free society.

Unfortunately the sort of "religion" which has ever held governmental power so far in human history, has often been a pseudo-religion exhibiting these traits of suppression. This requires separation of church from state. But the theocracy which Christ will set up , the last will be first and vice versa, the weak and poor will be put first above corporate greed, power, control, which much religious organisations have exhibited so far in human history, and have not been a proper reflection of Christ's nature or His true Church for that matter. No separation of church & state will exist, nor be required.

 

[Grimaldus]

Unfortunately the sort of "religion" which has ever held governmental power so far in human history, has often been a pseudo-religion exhibiting these traits of suppression. This requires separation of church from state. But the theocracy which Christ will set up , the last will be first and vice versa, the weak and poor will be put first above corporate greed, power, control, which much religious organisations have exhibited so far in human history, and have not been a proper reflection of Christ's nature or His true Church for that matter. No separation of church & state will exist, nor be required.

Sounds kinda like communism, I like it! In the end, when someone has power over others, they will use it. Even if it's power that comes from pure motives.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Cup,

I have seen the pendulum. This one was on the campus of a Christian University. It was not "rigged".

That would be right, they set them up everywhere...ever swung on a swing before? You stop swinging after a while, there is subsystem under the Pendulems they build, usually they run them for 16 hours a day, in the subsystem there is a magnetic sucker that can be set to move the pendulem bt the amount of degrees you would like it to move, it also keeps the pendulem ticking over. It's really the funniest thing.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Sounds kinda like communism, I like it! In the end, when someone has power over others, they will use it. Even if it's power that comes from pure motives.

What sounds like communism?

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

I am simply misinterpreting the scriptures to prove a flat earth .

How can I possibly debate that, now I would like to spend some time answering some other geniune questions from other forum members, so 'Snail we will just agree to disagree as we are completely at odds in all areas, so there is no need to continue, the back and forth stuff, I have said my piece and you have said yours, now lets just leave it at that.

 

[Slepsog4]

Cup,

Setting a pendulum to continue swinging is done in Grandfather clocks using weights and pulleys. Such does not explain the rotation, but the earth's movement does.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Cup,

Setting a pendulum to continue swinging is done in Grandfather clocks using weights and pulleys. Such does not explain the rotation, but the earth's movement does.

Yep, and you can make the clock pendulem rotate if that's what you want, Focault's Pendulems when they are installed in Museums and UN lobbies and other tax payer funded gathering places, they have a subsystem which houses what is called a 'magnetic sucker', you see the Pendulems would just stop swinging unless they have a component mechanical devise to keep them going. They turn them off for 8 hours at night time to save on electricity.

 

[Grimaldus]

Yep, and you can make the clock pendulem rotate if that's what you want, Focault's Pendulems when they are installed in Museums and UN lobbies and other tax payer funded gathering places, they have a subsystem which houses what is called a 'magnetic sucker', you see the Pendulems would just stop swinging unless they have a component mechanical devise to keep them going. They turn them off for 8 hours at night time to save on electricity.

As I recall, pendulums where invented before electricity

Yep, pendulum=1602

 

[Grimaldus]

I should say before electricity was applied, as it wasn't 'invented'

 

[doubleedge]

Don't worry about the nay sayers comrade. There return of the Body of Christ & the revival of his remnant is at hand. We must keep the vigil - 1 Thessalonians 5. The ignorant can not extrapolate.

 

[doubleedge]

I may not agree 100%, maybe less than 59%, but I can see the lies that surround us as I'm sure U do!

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

As I recall, pendulums where invented before electricity

Yep, pendulum=1602

Yep, Focault's Pendulem = 1851 before that Pendulems did not rotate.

Electricity was mainstream knowledge even before Faraday and his 1831 electromagnetic discoveries, electricty has been known and applied since Mesopotamia. But as you cann see because the Focault Pendulem needs an magnetic magnet it could not really be made until 1851, the Jesuits would have made one sooner if they could, you know Leon Focault was a Jesuit, the Jesuits had all the technology they need by 1851, to make their rotating Pendulem, nice little trick, fraud though, by any definition.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

I may not agree 100%, maybe less than 59%, but I can see the lies that surround us as I'm sure U do!

It has taken many years to reach my level of understanding, and many battles I have had getting to the truth, I would not have been able to do it without the internet; where I have been able to locate many books and documents and archives that would otherwise been out of my reach.

 

[MahogonySnail]

I would not have been able to do it without the internet

aha! the internet, friend or foe? Who is the internet owned by ? NASA? US Government? aha!. Get the picture? Join the dots. Internet is not reliable for such information. I think you have fallen for the quack and conspiracy theories abounding on the internet.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

aha! the internet, friend or foe? Who is the internet owned by ? NASA? US Government? aha!. Get the picture? Join the dots. Internet is not reliable for such information. I think you have fallen for the quack and conspiracy theories abounding on the internet.

There are Bibles and Scriptual writings, lexicons, dictionaries, linguistic studies and theological books and notes, also many authors who have never been able to have their work published, also many ancient and out of print books I have been able to aquire over the internet, I simply would not have otherwise had access to this knowledge, the many Bibles I now have now are not available at the local book store, this is what I mean. Nobody owns the internet, the internet is computers that are linked to each other, nobody owns the internet.

 

[Astronut]

Oh there is a space station up there, you can send a coke can into orbit if you like it's not hard.

Unlike a coke can, a space station cannot be launched in one go. It takes MANY launches and assembly on orbit by humans. Furthermore, the pieces are so massive that the shuttle couldn't do the job without exploiting the rotation of the earth.

However those other images you display are simulated, you have a small computer in your telescope that artificually simulates what your telescope does not see, in fact one with the spirit can see straight away that your images are fake.

My images are not fake, you sir are engaging in defamation. My telescope's computer is powerless to simulate any images at all - it's not involved in image acquisition, only driving the telescope. I demand you prove your accusation.

If you would like to provide me with the details of your telescope I will explain to you further how this is achieved, just state the make, and a general technical description of your telescope and it's components.

It's an 8" Meade LX200 Classic Schmidt-Cassegrain. It has two mirrors that collect the light and focus it through a hole in the center of the primary mirror. The light is collected by my dSLR camera (or in the case of my older images, a meade DSI camera - basically a passively cooled webcam). The telescope's computer only serves to move the telescope in sync with the sky.