Can someone lose their salvation?

[GreenNnice]

Green its time to pull out of this again i spose.. I just dont think theres any profit in continuing
when if someone says God is faithful...then the other replies....you just want to ok sin...tacky.

Why people cant see that a Faith in God is a Faith in God and not an excuse to sin and
be a fulltime lawbreaker. If thats all you get from it. Then your just plain wrong and cant
hear good.

If one departs a faith in God they depart the faith, and, they WERE saved, where do you come up with 'unwavering.' The context matters not, in this case, because IF one leaves 'the faith' they are LEAVING God, squirrelbuddy.

Now, why do they leave THE FAITH , when ONLY THROUGH FAITH ARE THEY SAVED? Because Satan wins, any false teacher has a demon ministering to him/her. Satan is soo powerful, squirrel, God has given that 'snake' free reign on earth, with, of course, entering in is God and His as His will needs done.
Satan would destroy us all , way long ago, IF he has his way. But God is in control, He reigns, and, not he.. God works all things for good, too, for those who Love Him, and, are called according to His purpose.

Greater is He who is in me than he who is in the world. Only when we accept the world can Satan touch us. Leaving THE FAITH allows Satan to not just touch us but woo us to his wicked ways.

If these things were not Truth, would they be in the Word?

Note: take 'I' out of the equation, 'I don't think this profits anyone to talk about this,' or, 'post #938 makes me think I should maybe leave...'

Now, I paraphrase your quotes, but the meaning is clear, squirrelfriend, no?


Let the Lord lead you, don't you lead you.'

 

[GreenNnice]

If one departs a faith in God they depart the faith, and, they WERE saved, where do you come up with 'unwavering.' The context matters not, in this case, because IF one leaves 'the faith' they are LEAVING God, squirrelbuddy.

Now, why do they leave THE FAITH , when ONLY THROUGH FAITH ARE THEY SAVED? Because Satan wins, any false teacher has a demon ministering to him/her. Satan is soo powerful, squirrel, God has given that 'snake' free reign on earth, with, of course, entering in is God and His as His will needs done.
Satan would destroy us all , way long ago, IF he has his way. But God is in control, He reigns, and, not he.. God works all things for good, too, for those who Love Him, and, are called according to His purpose.

Greater is He who is in me than he who is in the world. Only when we accept the world can Satan touch us. Leaving THE FAITH allows Satan to not just touch us but woo us to his wicked ways.

If these things were not Truth, would they be in the Word?

Note: take 'I' out of the equation, 'I don't think this profits anyone to talk about this,' or, 'post #938 makes me think I should maybe leave...'

Now, I paraphrase your quotes, but the meaning is clear, squirrelfriend, no?


Let the Lord lead you, don't you lead you.'

I am not meaning to lead anyone to believe that I have answers for anyone's salvation that is between you and God and you , me, all of us best let the Spirit lead us , which is going to be a leading of counseling, help, mercy, grace, and, all teaching done in Love. Our salvation , with fear (reverence) and trembling, worked out.

People use God's grace as a cop-out , and, it's a grave mistake, for we are saved by our faith. God's grace provided the Wayx which is through Jesus' shed blood.

 

[Abiding]

If one departs a faith in God they depart the faith, and, they WERE saved, where do you come up with 'unwavering.' The context matters not, in this case, because IF one leaves 'the faith' they are LEAVING God, squirrelbuddy. Greenie the context ALWAYS matters. Paul was instructing an evangelist vrs5 ok so far?..now go back to verse 1 and read. Noone left the faith in this context, and noone is departing from the faith(for that go to 1 tim 4:1 then ill explain that one also ). vrs 4 "they turned their 'EARS' from the faith. check: Acts 28:26-27 Jesus quoted the same. They are not saved..so again this verse does not fit the OP

Now, why do they leave THE FAITH , when ONLY THROUGH FAITH ARE THEY SAVED? Because Satan wins, any false teacher has a demon ministering to him/her. Satan is soo powerful, squirrel, God has given that 'snake' free reign on earth, with, of course, entering in as God's will needs done. Nope God HAS NOT given Satan free reign. Check Col 1:13
Satan would destroy us all , way long ago, IF he has his way. But God is in control, He reigns, and, not he.. God works all things for good, too, for those who Love Him, and, are called according to His purpose.
Oh yes God uses Satan, but Satan is under orders, as it pleases God.

Greater is He who is in me than he who is in the world. Only when we accept the world can Satan touch us. Leaving THE FAITH allows Satan to not just touch us but woo us to his wicked ways. Yes of coarse
we can get in hot water, and satan can woop on us as far as God allows. You dont have to leave the faith for that. Paul even had a messenger of satan sennt to buffet him for Gods purpose. And God uses him for judgement at times...to chastise His children. Yes i spose he could decieve us..to an extent. Cause us to be
ineffective believers and lose rewards. No doubt.

If these things were not Truth, would they be in the Word?

Note: take 'I' out of the equation, 'I don't think this profits anyone to talk about this,' or, 'post #938 makes me think I should maybe leave...'

Now, I paraphrase your quotes, but the meaning is clear, squirrelfriend, no?


Let the Lord lead you, don't you lead you.'

...............
Acts 28:26-27 26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:

27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

 

[Abiding]

I am not meaning to lead anyone to believe that I have answers for anyone's salvation that is between you and God and you , me, all of us best let the Spirit lead us , which is going to be a leading of counseling, help, mercy, grace, and, all teaching done in Love. Our salvation , with fear (reverence) and trembling, worked out.

People use God's grace as a cop-out , and, it's a grave mistake, for we are saved by our faith. God's grace provided the Wayx which is through Jesus' shed blood.

But true grace is divine enablement...its the power your talking about.
There is surely a false definition of grace. But the biblical definition is divine enablement=charis..i think.
so it would be impossible to abuse that, other than not growing in it.

 

[GreenNnice]

...............
Acts 28:26-27 26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:

27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

One who 'turns their ears from the faith' is quite different from one who 'departs the faith.'

Again, CONTEXT does not matter , the words in the verses MATTER

The ones you speak of in Acts 26 never were converted, they were not hearing , had 'dull ears,' but, in 1 Timothy Paul speaks of 'some who will depart the faith,' these are those who knew the Word SECURE in their heart and then left THE FAITH

King James Bible -- "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils."

And, congratulations, Christbro, your 'rep' musta been rapped by someone, so, to speak, you just changed from a rank of 8, to one of 9 maybe 'Alvin' snuck in a vote for ya, squirrel

 

[Abiding]

One who 'turns their ears from the faith' is quite different from one who 'departs the faith.'

Again, CONTEXT does not matter , the words in the verses MATTER

The ones you speak of in Acts 26 never were converted, they were not hearing , had 'dull ears,' but, in 1 Timothy Paul speaks of 'some who will depart the faith,' these are those who knew the Word SECURE in their heart and then left THE FAITH Right...but not so fast...you were refering to 2 tim. and i said you had to go to 1 tim for the departing verse. Of coarse the words are important, but out of context was how you misread 2 tim...then mixed stuff together...naughty naughty..context always matters

King James Bible -- "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils."Again tho this verse is not fit for the op unless i let you get away with context doesnt matter. Thats exactly how false teachers operate...dont fall for that...the subject is talking about people walking away from the truth of the gospel. This nowhere says they were saved..in fact look at verse 2 where they sear their own conscience with a hot iron...that is not a action of a believer. example in Eph 4:17-20

17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

So there is no indication that 1 Tim is talking about regenerate saved believer but just as in 2 Tim these are the lost.


And, congratulations, Christbro, your 'rep' musta been rapped by someone, so, to speak, you just changed from a rank of 8, to one of 9 maybe 'Alvin' snuck in a vote for ya, squirrel

................

 

[GreenNnice]

I won't say any nasty adjectives to describe your comments, squirrel, but, simply, I guess the Lord leads me to say it again. No, the context doesn't matter, in this case, here's why: Paul is speaking of 'faith' with varying descriptives throughout 1 & 2 Timothy.

'The faith.'
'a sincere faith'
'a true faith'

Squirrelbuddy, Paul is speaking to those who ARE Christians, they're not like in Acts 28:26, that is, speaking of those who are NOT of 'the faith.'

How's that for context? This was done before, and, no, there is nothing nasty or naughty about my saying context, in this case, does not matter, because the verse of 2 Timothy 4:1 stands alone. So does Acts 28'26, again, maybe review what you are going to remark before remarking, plus, check the verse in question
Additionally, never did I use 1 Timothy, the context of those betasz again is NOT necessary for understanding 1Tim. 4:1.

Kewords: the faith .

Here is a 'the faith' statement:

6 For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time has come for my departure. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

 

[GreenNnice]

Here is another faith statement, this from 1 Timothy :

command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer 4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God’s work—which is by faith. 5 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk. 7 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

Maybe, verse is speaking to you, squirrel


'Course, I say this ^ gently, squirrel

 

[ReinItIn]

Hebrews 9

who is salvation coming too?

27 And just as it is appointed for people to die once—and after this, judgment— 28 so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but[f] to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him.

salvation is a promise to those who remain in Christ.

 

[ReinItIn]

abiding
re:who said it did?

the once saved always saved doctrine teaches grace as a cover for lawlessness for His elect.. I think Our salvation is promised to those who wait for him in belief. He will bring it with him and when we stand before him incorruptible is when we know we have receive it.

No one living has already obtained it as far as i can tell.

 

[Abiding]

I won't say any nasty adjectives to describe your comments, squirrel, but, simply, I guess the Lord leads me to say it again. No, the context doesn't matter, in this case, here's why: Paul is speaking of 'faith' with varying descriptives throughout 1 & 2 Timothy.

'The faith.'
'a sincere faith'
'a true faith'

Squirrelbuddy, Paul is speaking to those who ARE Christians, they're not like in Acts 28:26, that is, speaking of those who are NOT of 'the faith.'

How's that for context? This was done before, and, no, there is nothing nasty or naughty about my saying context, in this case, does not matter, because the verse of 2 Timothy 4:1 stands alone. So does Acts 28'26, again, maybe review what you are going to remark before remarking, plus, check the verse in question
Additionally, never did I use 1 Timothy, the context of those betasz again is NOT necessary for understanding 1Tim. 4:1.

Kewords: the faith .



Here is a 'the faith' statement:

6 For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time has come for my departure. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

What? the false teacher comment? If so read it slower and take the intent. Anyone that ever said
context doesnt matter and that you can single out any verse and run with it...i dont even have words for that greenie. You cant get away with that anywhere, in a forum, in a courtroom. Nowhere. But youve said that more than once...so whatever, what you may not understand is that the faith is used in context as the Gospel...meaning that if some departs from the people who hold....oh man never mind...that would take
context...and other rules of interpretation...and you have the Lord leading you. blessings Greennnice

 

[GreenNnice]

I won't say any nasty adjectives to describe your comments, squirrel, but, simply, I guess the Lord leads me to say it again. No, the context doesn't matter, in this case, here's why: Paul is speaking of 'faith' with varying descriptives throughout 1 & 2 Timothy.

'The faith.'
'a sincere faith'
'a true faith'

Squirrelbuddy, Paul is speaking to those who ARE Christians, they're not like in Acts 28:26, that is, speaking of those who are NOT of 'the faith.'

How's that for context? This was done before, and, no, there is nothing nasty or naughty about my saying context, in this case, does not matter, because the verse of 2 Timothy 4:1 stands alone. So does Acts 28'26, again, maybe review what you are going to remark before remarking, plus, check the verse in question
Additionally, never did I use 1 Timothy, the context of those verses, again, is NOT necessary for understanding 2 Tim. 4:1.

KeYwords: the faith .

Here is a 'the faith' statement:

6 For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time has come for my departure. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

I'm sure you agree, squirrel, the bold-faced black word is a keyword, context of 2 Tim. 4:1

List the verse again, green !
Why, green brains what-o would I do without ya

Words for versions of this keyword are: turning away, falling away, abandon, and, think root word of departure

2 Tim. 4:1 " Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"



This is very good Lord led preface for ALL, for tomorrow cee's Hebrews 5 study w, this VERY issue, as He leads, will be lighted , tackled ; this false faith doctrine will be wholly spoken of, in Truth through Him , of Hebrews, 'great words,' magnificently said out of the mouth of God's unknown author who is of God also chosen.

Pray for God to reach many into a less than futile understanding of how very ALWAYS important it IS to follow His Spirit leading you, for no one knows the day or the hour Christ comes.

Comes to take us home, green?
Comes to take YOU . Or, me. What does it matter, only God knows, do not worry about your salvation destination IF your life is wrought in His leading The Lord leads.

Has anyone ever said to you that the Spirit reveals ALL to.you....even 'the deeper things of God.
Don't be cut-off, follow Him, for no fruit means 'cut off' and, how much cutting do you want to afford when only He shews the cutting ??? One more way is this to lose one's salvation! A lack of faith, trusting in His grace and mercy, will be of no good to you ! Or, me.
Produce FRUIT ! Or, else! You will be PRUNED ! So LIVE in Christ's grace and mercy, Love God, Love people, and never forget you are SAVED by Christ, you are under the laws of Christ. Justified by grace ? No, faith ! Faith in OT times, faith in NT times, faith in now's times, FAITH, FAITH, FAITH. It IS what secures YOUR salvation, it is NOT a free gift , it is MERELY a 'measure' given by all by God
Everything we do is by FAITH, for His work ! Just go, by faith, keep His grace in your mind , and YOUR SALVATION, and this latter IS the free gift of God.

Faith, grace, they ARE NOT THE FREE GIFT OF God Neon, NEin, NO!
FAITH=measure given by God, not free, silly, just GIVEN. ALL get a measure of faith, for God is just, God is Love

Grace=a given . It's just what God gives us, just as He shews mercy He shews grace, to who He wants ,cwith ONE exception, ALL MANKIND has received the grace of God's Son that leadeth us all unto salvation

 

[ReinItIn]

abiding,

Christ died to reconcile us to God and to remove sin.

I'm not demonizing anyone.. I'm speaking to false application of once saved always saved as I have seen it applied.

one example of once saved always saved being arrogance and sin of presumption i have seen is.

I grew up with a girl that her parents and church believed once saved always saved. at the age of 8 she gave into their pressure and said the sinners prayer and they baptized her. She became a crack addict, was involved in prostitution, worked for a physic hot line, hated christian's and drank herself to death. Christ could save her if she repented and reconciled to him in her last hours. I do not know if she did.. only he does.. At her funeral they spoke about her being baptized and saying the lil prayer with them when she was 8 and assured everyone she was saved because they witnessed her asking Jesus into her heart.

that is not sound doctrine to me. that is presumption and arrogance..

unfortunately i have seen many example where people wouldn't walk with Christ because they were convinced they had already taken care of it and didn't need to do anything else.

 

[feedm3]

abiding,

Christ died to reconcile us to God and to remove sin.

I'm not demonizing anyone.. I'm speaking to false application of once saved always saved as I have seen it applied.

one example of once saved always saved being arrogance and sin of presumption i have seen is.

I grew up with a girl that her parents and church believed once saved always saved. at the age of 8 she gave into their pressure and said the sinners prayer and they baptized her. She became a crack addict, was involved in prostitution, worked for a physic hot line, hated christian's and drank herself to death. Christ could save her if she repented and reconciled to him in her last hours. I do not know if she did.. only he does.. At her funeral they spoke about her being baptized and saying the lil prayer with them when she was 8 and assured everyone she was saved because they witnessed her asking Jesus into her heart.

that is not sound doctrine to me. that is presumption and arrogance..

unfortunately i have seen many example where people wouldn't walk with Christ because they were convinced they had already taken care of it and didn't need to do anything else.

Thats sad. I have many if my family who live in sin, thinking they are saved, because of Osas docrtine. I really am afraid for them. I am working on few though.

 

[ReinItIn]

With the once saved always saved I have seen many people who believe faith in their salvation means they can't question if they actually have Christ in them because that would be doubt and that would mean they are not saved.. they wont yeild to his conviction, they resist any correction and that is what they are calling faith in salvation ..

if another person humbles themselves and seeks God daily through repentance and daily service they call it doubt.

 

[GreenNnice]

What? the false teacher comment? If so read it slower and take the intent. Anyone that ever said
context doesnt matter and that you can single out any verse and run with it...i dont even have words for that greenie. You cant get away with that anywhere, in a forum, in a courtroom. Nowhere. But youve said that more than once...so whatever, what you may not understand is that the faith is used in context as the Gospel...meaning that if some departs from the people who hold....oh man never mind...that would take
context...and other rules of interpretation...and you have the Lord leading you. blessings Greennnice

abidingsquirrel, 'the faith,' why do you insist those two words must have context? Their meaning is obvious. Just quit. Do yourself a prideful favor, look to Christ for your answers , please.

And, please, where do I say that 'CONTEXT is NEVER important.' Of course, it is , it just is obvious that 'the faith' from Paul is speaking of peopke who WERE of the sincere faith that then DEPARTED

 

[Abiding]

abiding
re:who said it did?

the once saved always saved doctrine teaches grace as a cover for lawlessness for His elect.. I think Our salvation is promised to those who wait for him in belief. He will bring it with him and when we stand before him incorruptible is when we know we have receive it.

No one living has already obtained it as far as i can tell.

I thought you meant someone on the thread.

 

[Abiding]

abiding,

Christ died to reconcile us to God and to remove sin.

I'm not demonizing anyone.. I'm speaking to false application of once saved always saved as I have seen it applied.

one example of once saved always saved being arrogance and sin of presumption i have seen is.

I grew up with a girl that her parents and church believed once saved always saved. at the age of 8 she gave into their pressure and said the sinners prayer and they baptized her. She became a crack addict, was involved in prostitution, worked for a physic hot line, hated christian's and drank herself to death. Christ could save her if she repented and reconciled to him in her last hours. I do not know if she did.. only he does.. At her funeral they spoke about her being baptized and saying the lil prayer with them when she was 8 and assured everyone she was saved because they witnessed her asking Jesus into her heart.

that is not sound doctrine to me. that is presumption and arrogance..

unfortunately i have seen many example where people wouldn't walk with Christ because they were convinced they had already taken care of it and didn't need to do anything else.

Im not saying their isnt a possibility of being deceived. And id have to agree there is a false Faith
Why someone would think a prayer alone could save them i couldnt guess. Falling from a false prayer
is different from losing your salvation.

Im not one that likes to risk my peace with God and go one day without prayer, or study.
Why? not that im afraid to lose my salvation...but i just know the darkeness that would come
over me, since i cant produce grace or light. Im a total dependant.

Im not as ive said before against the belief that someone could willingly go apostate.
Id be ok with thinking God would let them go...but i wonder why He ever sealed them in the first place.
If you saying that eternal security people teach salvation is just a prayer and there is no
surrender and selfdenial afterwards and a abiding in their Lord and a continued growth in grace and
knowledge with obedience. And think they are eternally secure and teach people that.

Well yes they are arrogant and prideful fools and heretics.

Like j vernon said...i believe in the eternal security of the believer
and the eternal insecurity of the make believer.

 

[Abiding]

abidingsquirrel, 'the faith,' why do you insist those two words must have context? Their meaning is obvious. Just quit. Do yourself a prideful favor, look to Christ for your answers , please.

And, please, where do I say that 'CONTEXT is NEVER important.' Of course, it is , it just is obvious that 'the faith' from Paul is speaking of peopke who WERE of the sincere faith that then DEPARTED

We might have to slow down a bit GreenNnice...this is getting sloppy i think and
it might be my fault... if we actually do agree or disagree on something..we need
clarity to what it is. Then we can hammer it out.

What do you mean : Do yourself a prideful favor, look to Christ for your answers , please.

Is that meaning you dont want to discuss with me? Or was it a religious jab?

I had more to say and discuss since this is a pretty important subject..but ill pull off for now with you till
i understand what your attitude is about.

 

[Abiding]

#961 you said:The context matters not, in this case
#965 you said:Again, CONTEXT does not matter

#971 I said: But youve said that more than once.

#976 Then you said:And, please, where do I say that 'CONTEXT is NEVER important

#980 Im saying: I dont know, i never said you said that.

See where gona have to slow down dont ya think?