Can someone lose their salvation?

[Skinski7]

The bible doesn't say what you are trying to make it say. It is your inference and your philosophy only.

No where in the bible will you find written that the Lord will write a persons name in the Book of Life but if they don't do a good job then God will change His mind and erase them.

All that is told is the people who are in the Book of Life and the people who are not in the Book of Life.

Joh 9:13 They brought to the Pharisees him that aforetime was blind.
Joh 9:14 And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.
Joh 9:15 Then again the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. He said unto them, He put clay upon mine eyes, and I washed, and do see.
Joh 9:16 Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.
Joh 9:17 They say unto the blind man again, What sayest thou of him, that he hath opened thine eyes? He said, He is a prophet.
Joh 9:18 But the Jews did not believe concerning him, that he had been blind, and received his sight, until they called the parents of him that had received his sight.
Joh 9:19 And they asked them, saying, Is this your son, who ye say was born blind? how then doth he now see?
Joh 9:20 His parents answered them and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind:
Joh 9:21 But by what means he now seeth, we know not; or who hath opened his eyes, we know not: he is of age; ask him: he shall speak for himself.
Joh 9:22 These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue.
Joh 9:23 Therefore said his parents, He is of age; ask him.
Joh 9:24 Then again called they the man that was blind, and said unto him, Give God the praise: we know that this man is a sinner.
Joh 9:25 He answered and said, Whether he be a sinner or no, I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.
Joh 9:26 Then said they to him again, What did he to thee? how opened he thine eyes?
Joh 9:27 He answered them, I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again? will ye also be his disciples?
Joh 9:28 Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples.
Joh 9:29 We know that God spake unto Moses: as for this fellow, we know not from whence he is.
Joh 9:30 The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes.
Joh 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
Joh 9:32 Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind.
Joh 9:33 If this man were not of God, he could do nothing.
Joh 9:34 They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out.
Joh 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
Joh 9:36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
Joh 9:37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.
Joh 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Joh 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

 

[Abiding]

pretty scary verse.
glad im still stupid.

 

[GreenNnice]

The bible doesn't say what you are trying to make it say. It is your inference and your philosophy only.

No where in the bible will you find written that the Lord will write a persons name in the Book of Life but if they don't do a good job then God will change His mind and erase them.

All that is told is the people who are in the Book of Life and the people who are not in the Book of Life.

Revelations 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Now, you have .

well, well,led, My son, fabulous, fabulous, spiritually entrenched, full-on Truth

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

There is no way I am going to read through all of these many posts. My guess is that your question has been adequately answered by this point.

What I will do is add a little insight that usually gets skipped over when discussing this topic.

The historical period that passages like Hebrews 6:4-6, the Epistle of Jude, etc... were written was a very dark pagan period of history at the beginning of the Christian expansionary period and there were some people that would accept Jesus Christ as savior and then change their mind and go right back to the pagan temple prostitutes and demonic activities they had previously been involved in and never turn back to God afterwards.

Some of these even began syncreting (e.g. mixing) Christian theology with paganism and the Gnostic thought that existed in the first century and began slipping back into Christian assemblies (e.g. churches) as false teachers and "wolves" to try and mislead others with their "new revelations."

These are the people that created Christian Gnosticism that warred for souls against orthodox Christianity during the second and third centuries before the Council of Nicaea. By the early 4th century, Gnostics were kicked out the church and officially forbidden to meet, by the mid 4th century their books were widely banned and by the late 4th century Gnosticism carried a death penalty in the Roman empire. THESE are the people the authors of scripture were referring to.

Don't confuse these people with Christians struggling through the sanctification process (saved but not perfect), struggling with addiction, who fell into an immoral relationship and is needing church discipline to come out of it, missing the mark on some theological points after salvation they need to correct (which happens to everyone as they grow in the knowledge of Christ), or other life issues.

Don't confuse these people with those that accepted Christ but became deceived and ended up following a false teacher, cult, or even atheism and later repented and came back to the truth as these are NOT the ones the authors of Hebrew, Jude, etc... were referencing.

And one of the devil's favorite lies is to deceive people that they went too far to come back to God. Many a strong Christian today was fooled by this at some point in their life.

My personal belief is that the ones the biblical authors were referencing as having lost their salvation could no longer repent because they had lost all desire to repent. In my observations, if you have a real desire to repent then you can.

Peace.

How can someone lose their salvation? How does someone know if they've lost their salvation.

 

[Abiding]

good info Ageofknowledge...as much as i wanted to pester you
ill just have to wait on that

 

[Katy-follower]

But it's hard for me to understand how a person who is reborn from above could see themselves as not saved eternally, sealed by the Holy Spirit, purchased by the blood, adopted into the family of God, inheritor of the PROMISE, members of the Holy City and of God's Elect.

What is Jesus going to do, hand over the receipt to Satan after purchasing you with his blood? sounds absurd doesn't it. Un-seal you after sealing you? God gives us to Jesus and then takes us away?

Amen. Completely agree. You cannot be unborn, then reborn then unborn. Lol.

It's worrying to think that some give Satan credit as if he has power to pluck us from the Father's hand. He can try to distract us from doing our work, but not take us away from God's unconditional love. We are still God's children. He never stops being our Father


Reminds me of these scriptures...

Romans 8:31-39: "What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written: “For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.” Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord"

John 10:28-30: "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and My Father are one.”

 

[Red33]

So a person can be practically unfaithful to God, live a rebellious life, and still be righteous? Practical sinners but positional righteous, is that what being washed by the blood of Christ and justified by His grace means? What is righteousness?

Here's what the scriptures says: 1 John 3:7- Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8- He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
2 Cor 5:17- Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
If one continues to live same way they did prior to salvation, no change has been brought in that life and thus they are not righteous. Genuine salvation brings about inward transformation which is manifested outwardly.

James 2:23- And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. His belief was not a mere mental knowledge of God but one that was accompanied with faithfulness therefore righteousness was imputed on his account.

This is where many of you tune out God's chastening and judge God as being unfaithful to those who He has redeemed with the blood of Christ and unreliable to His promises. If I break fellowship with God and venture into sin, God does not forsake me. He will do what He has to do through a plan of disciplining me to get me back. How long that takes will depend on my response to His chastening. If I rebel and continue in my sin God will continue to keep me under discipline. He will take grace away from me and stop blessing me and if He has to He will afflict me and make life very miserable for me to get my attention. If I continue to resist these measures of drawing me back through discipline He may have to scourge me or bring me to the brink of losing my life through a close call with death.

All of this would be grievous and miserable for me and I would be without the various measures of God's grace, having no fellowship with God or with anyone else because I would be under discipline. It would appear to some that I have forsaken God or that He has forsaken me, but in God's eternal reality I would be very much under God's hand of discipline, which could continue for years or even decades. God is long-suffering and not slack concerning His promise and desires to yield a peaceable fruit of righteousness in my life and will never give up or quit. I belong to Him and if I do not humble myself after He has scourged me He may take my life and I would die without dying grace and suffer the lost of rewards. In other words it would not be a peaceful or rewarding death knowing that my time is over but one that God has to remove me before my time because of my resistance to all that He has done to win me back into His grace and fellowship. I would never have lost my salvation nor would it be taken from me at any time, but I would experience a life without grace and the hand of blessing upon me. It is never a good thing for anyone to fall into the hands of God's chastening.

Some are so quit to nullify salvation instead of understanding the hand of God upon the life of a redeemed soul. Some want to look and see a believer living in sin and judge and accuse him of departing from the faith or of antinomianism and never discern the hand of discipline. This is walking and judging another by sight and not by the faith that we have been given through the written word and inspiration of the Spirit. This is how error and wrong understanding happens in the heart and believers, who are under discipline, are used as scapegoats to perpetrate this error. Do you think when a believer is under discipline that they are bearing fruit unto God? Are you going to judge them as not being saved or not having God's righteousness because you see no fruit? Perhaps what you do not see or discern is the hand of God's chastening and you judge unjustly revealing that you lack something very important in your faith.

 

[Crossfire]

My personal belief is that the ones the biblical authors were referencing as having lost their salvation could no longer repent because they had lost all desire to repent. In my observations, if you have a real desire to repent then you can.

Amen. As long as we are willing to repent He is willing to forgive. Sure, we could not repent unless He first convicted our hearts but ultimately the decision to position ourselves through humility to receive the free gift of forgiveness is our to make.

 

[psychomom]

Will you all forgive me for an anecdote?

When our son (now 24) was a very little boy, he received salvation from sin and death in Jesus. He was 9 years old.
I never knew this for years, but shortly after that, one night in desperation, he offered his soul to the enemy if his mommy would be made well, physically.

A few years later he told me he wasn't going to heaven because of that deal he had made. (he's a very faithful boy, and thank the Lord for His mercies on our naiveté.)
I admit I cried a little, because this child lived a life of faithful obedience to the Lord, yet thought it was for...nothing?
Than I showed him this:
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body. (1 Corinthians 6:19-20)

I realize the context of the verses, yet I hold this to be truth. We are not our own!
I explained to our son that what he had offered was not his to offer--he belongs to the Lord. (you can't give away what you do not own)
I got his dad, and we prayed together, and let him know in no uncertain terms that he had been lied to, and that his redemption was secure in Jesus.
(not to mention he didn't realize that his mom was still sick! )

Do you see that he tried to walk away--to forfeit what is his inheritance, and that he believed a lie?
The price paid at Calvary was sufficient in the Father's eyes, and every one who is truly saved remains so.
Sealed with the pledge of our inheritance.
For as many as are the promises of God, in Jesus they are yes!
If we are faithless, He still remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

I agree that there are those who claim His Name and are not His--how can this not be true when it is in His Word?
But for those who are His--not their own any longer, but freed slaves who willingly placed their ear to the door for the awl to go through--
I thank our God for His love, and His faithfulness. It's His fidelity that matters.
He bought us. He gave grace and faith to believe. He began the work, and He is faithful to complete it. Alpha and Omega, it's ALL about Him.
I gave up all right to myself when I was purchased by the blood of the Savior.
Thank the Lord!!
and thank you for listening.
-ellie

 

[Red33]

Will you all forgive me for an anecdote?

When our son (now 24) was a very little boy, he received salvation from sin and death in Jesus. He was 9 years old.
I never knew this for years, but shortly after that, one night in desperation, he offered his soul to the enemy if his mommy would be made well, physically.

A few years later he told me he wasn't going to heaven because of that deal he had made. (he's a very faithful boy, and thank the Lord for His mercies on our naiveté.)
I admit I cried a little, because this child lived a life of faithful obedience to the Lord, yet thought it was for...nothing?
Than I showed him this:
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body. (1 Corinthians 6:19-20)

I realize the context of the verses, yet I hold this to be truth. We are not our own!
I explained to our son that what he had offered was not his to offer--he belongs to the Lord. (you can't give away what you do not own)
I got his dad, and we prayed together, and let him know in no uncertain terms that he had been lied to, and that his redemption was secure in Jesus.
(not to mention he didn't realize that his mom was still sick! )

Do you see that he tried to walk away--to forfeit what is his inheritance, and that he believed a lie?
The price paid at Calvary was sufficient in the Father's eyes, and every one who is truly saved remains so.
Sealed with the pledge of our inheritance.
For as many as are the promises of God, in Jesus they are yes!
If we are faithless, He still remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

I agree that there are those who claim His Name and are not His--how can this not be true when it is in His Word?
But for those who are His--not their own any longer, but freed slaves who willingly placed their ear to the door for the awl to go through--
I thank our God for His love, and His faithfulness. It's His fidelity that matters.
He bought us. He gave grace and faith to believe. He began the work, and He is faithful to complete it. Alpha and Omega, it's ALL about Him.
I gave up all right to myself when I was purchased by the blood of the Savior.
Thank the Lord!!
and thank you for listening.
-ellie

This is excellent and so mature in understanding of the finished work and grace of God. Positional truth is so important for every one of us to understand and to cleave to no matter what we may be going through in our experience, which could include some pretty ugly sin. Let God be true and every man a liar when it comes to Jesus Christ and Him crucified. You are also a great mom with a deep love for your kids.

 

[Abiding]

Had to open a new box of cleenex.

2 Thessalonians 3:3 But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen and protect you from the evil one.

 

[starfield]

This is where many of you tune out God's chastening and judge God as being unfaithful to those who He has redeemed with the blood of Christ and unreliable to His promises. If I break fellowship with God and venture into sin, God does not forsake me. He will do what He has to do through a plan of disciplining me to get me back. How long that takes will depend on my response to His chastening. If I rebel and continue in my sin God will continue to keep me under discipline. He will take grace away from me and stop blessing me and if He has to He will afflict me and make life very miserable for me to get my attention. If I continue to resist these measures of drawing me back through discipline He may have to scourge me or bring me to the brink of losing my life through a close call with death.

All of this would be grievous and miserable for me and I would be without the various measures of God's grace, having no fellowship with God or with anyone else because I would be under discipline. It would appear to some that I have forsaken God or that He has forsaken me, but in God's eternal reality I would be very much under God's hand of discipline, which could continue for years or even decades. God is long-suffering and not slack concerning His promise and desires to yield a peaceable fruit of righteousness in my life and will never give up or quit. I belong to Him and if I do not humble myself after He has scourged me He may take my life and I would die without dying grace and suffer the lost of rewards. In other words it would not be a peaceful or rewarding death knowing that my time is over but one that God has to remove me before my time because of my resistance to all that He has done to win me back into His grace and fellowship. I would never have lost my salvation nor would it be taken from me at any time, but I would experience a life without grace and the hand of blessing upon me. It is never a good thing for anyone to fall into the hands of God's chastening.

Some are saying the person was not saved to begin with while you are talking about chastening. So which is it, never saved or will be chastened? If they were never saved, why are they being chastened for restoration? Also, what warrants discipline rather than concluding "never saved to begin with"? Would a Christian that commits murder tomorrow be deemed as "never saved to begin with" or saved but will be chastened? What about one that lies?
Going by the premise of OSAS, one can conclude that a murdering, backbiting, fornicating, lying Christian still has hope of eternal life since no sin a believer commits will hinder their eternal salvation. I mean they may be chastened but that's totally fine. Even though they do not return to Christ, they will simply die in misery and lose rewards but will inherit the Kingdom of God. Is that what they are now teaching kids in Sunday school?

Some are so quit to nullify salvation instead of understanding the hand of God upon the life of a redeemed soul. Some want to look and see a believer living in sin and judge and accuse him of departing from the faith or of antinomianism and never discern the hand of discipline.

Again, I'm curious to know how you can differentiate between someone under discipline from someone who was never saved to begin with.

This is walking and judging another by sight and not by the faith that we have been given through the written word and inspiration of the Spirit. This is how error and wrong understanding happens in the heart and believers, who are under discipline, are used as scapegoats to perpetrate this error.

By their fruit ye shall know them (Matt 7:16). Can you honestly say that someone is faithful to God and upright in their heart when their actions are contrary to His will? An unfaithful person has already strayed from God in his/her heart. Actions reflect the conditon of the heart. God is merciful and loving but also just, He will discipline the child who was once saved but strayed away from Him, but if that child fails to return to Him, they have no hope of eternal life at the end of life.

Do you think when a believer is under discipline that they are bearing fruit unto God? Are you going to judge them as not being saved or not having God's righteousness because you see no fruit? Perhaps what you do not see or discern is the hand of God's chastening and you judge unjustly revealing that you lack something very important in your faith.

I am not judging anyone but speaking against sin in believers' life. This message has been eradicated in some pulpits. I believe the gospel message has to be balance with the gracious love of God to save and keep us from falling and the call for faithfulness and obedience (our duty). If we are truly born again, we will obey the Lord because our faith is rooted on the power of God. His grace is able to keep us from falling but we must be willing follow His lead. Some that started the Christian faith fell because they failed to look unto Jesus, the finisher of their faith.
The problem is that some people are subtly trying to justify carnality in Christianity. That is why these strange doctrines are propagated to prove saved in sins. There is no such thing as a carnal Christian for no one can serve two masters neither can you walk in darkness and light. It's not about not doing enough good works but about unbelief and shunning the leading of the Spirit; the bible says unbelievers will have their part in the Lake of fire.
There are so many scriptures against carnality in the Christian faith.
Rom 8:6-10
6- For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7- Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8- So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9- But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10- And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
The worker of unrighteousness, the unfaithful, is carnally minded and an enemy of God.
1 Cor 3:1-3
1- And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2- I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3- For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

2 Tim 2:19- Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

1 Peter 1:13-16
13- Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14- As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15- But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16- Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

There won't be make-believers in Heaven as there are in churches today; the Lord is coming for a faithful bride.

Matt 24:13- But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 2 Peter 1:10- Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall. Perseverance is about taking up your cross and following Christ, it's about not getting entangled with false doctrines, it's about walking in the light and heeding to the Spirit, it's about saying no to the dictates of the flesh, it's about desiring sanctification, and it's about seeking spiritual maturity rather remaining babes in Christ or a rollercoaster Christian.

This is how error and wrong understanding happens in the heart and believers, who are under discipline, are used as scapegoats to perpetrate this error. Do you think when a believer is under discipline that they are bearing fruit unto God? Are you going to judge them as not being saved or not having God's righteousness because you see no fruit? Perhaps what you do not see or discern is the hand of God's chastening and you judge unjustly revealing that you lack something very important in your faith.

The only error Satan is has been trying to spread from the beginning is that believers can live like him and still go to Heaven. He is enslaving people with several demonic doctrines to propagate this claim. He knows this is all lies but wants us to believe it so that no one will make it to Heaven. No wonder why the bible warns us to not be ignorant of his devices. He makes more lies to cover up lies and gives false assurance to the unsaved.
Matt 7:21-23
21- Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22- Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23- And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


A believer has assurance of salvation and a secured eternal life if they are faithful to God.

 

[Red33]

Some are saying the person was not saved to begin with while you are talking about chastening. So which is it, never saved or will be chastened? If they were never saved, why are they being chastened for restoration? Also, what warrants discipline rather than concluding "never saved to begin with"? Would a Christian that commits murder tomorrow be deemed as "never saved to begin with" or saved but will be chastened? What about one that lies?
Going by the premise of OSAS, one can conclude that a murdering, backbiting, fornicating, lying Christian still has hope of eternal life since no sin a believer commits will hinder their eternal salvation. I mean they may be chastened but that's totally fine. Even though they do not return to Christ, they will simply die in misery and lose rewards but will inherit the Kingdom of God. Is that what they are now teaching kids in Sunday school?


Again, I'm curious to know how you can differentiate between someone under discipline from someone who was never saved to begin with.


By their fruit ye shall know them (Matt 7:16). Can you honestly say that someone is faithful to God and upright in their heart when their actions are contrary to His will? An unfaithful person has already strayed from God in his/her heart. Actions reflect the conditon of the heart. God is merciful and loving but also just, He will discipline the child who was once saved but strayed away from Him, but if that child fails to return to Him, they have no hope of eternal life at the end of life.

I am not judging anyone but speaking against sin in believers' life. This message has been eradicated in some pulpits. I believe the gospel message has to be balance with the gracious love of God to save and keep us from falling and the call for faithfulness and obedience (our duty). If we are truly born again, we will obey the Lord because our faith is rooted on the power of God. His grace is able to keep us from falling but we must be willing follow His lead. Some that started the Christian faith fell because they failed to look unto Jesus, the finisher of their faith.
The problem is that some people are subtly trying to justify carnality in Christianity. That is why these strange doctrines are propagated to prove saved in sins. There is no such thing as a carnal Christian for no one can serve two masters neither can you walk in darkness and light. It's not about not doing enough good works but about unbelief and shunning the leading of the Spirit; the bible says unbelievers will have their part in the Lake of fire.
There are so many scriptures against carnality in the Christian faith.
Rom 8:6-10
6- For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7- Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8- So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9- But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10- And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
The worker of unrighteousness, the unfaithful, is carnally minded and an enemy of God.
1 Cor 3:1-3
1- And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2- I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3- For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

2 Tim 2:19- Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

1 Peter 1:13-16
13- Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14- As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15- But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16- Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

There won't be make-believers in Heaven as there are in churches today; the Lord is coming for a faithful bride.

Matt 24:13- But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 2 Peter 1:10- Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall. Perseverance is about taking up your cross and following Christ, it's about not getting entangled with false doctrines, it's about walking in the light and heeding to the Spirit, it's about saying no to the dictates of the flesh, it's about desiring sanctification, and it's about seeking spiritual maturity rather remaining babes in Christ or a rollercoaster Christian.


The only error Satan is has been trying to spread from the beginning is that believers can live like him and still go to Heaven. He is enslaving people with several demonic doctrines to propagate this claim. He knows this is all lies but wants us to believe it so that no one will make it to Heaven. No wonder why the bible warns us to not be ignorant of his devices. He makes more lies to cover up lies and gives false assurance to the unsaved.
Matt 7:21-23
21- Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22- Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23- And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


A believer has assurance of salvation and a secured eternal life if they are faithful to God.

Don't confuse the issue with those who are in unbelief and those that come under chastisement. God knows those who belong to Him and we are addressing the eternal security of the believer in relationship to what you call unrepented sin. You have this idea that you can't get out of your head that we are advocating that it is alright to live in sin as a believer. So let me say for the record and for the emphasis of entering your mind... IT IS NOT ALRIGHT NOR IS IT THE WILL OF GOD IN ANY SITUATION FOR A BELIEVER TO LIVE IN ANY FORM OF SIN. I hope by God's grace that you will remember that from now on when you reply to me and others that believe in eternal security.

Many believers have been saved for years and even decades and have never dealt with youthful lust. Do you have any idea what Paul was referring to when he brought that up with Timothy in (2Tim 2:22)? What would be some forms of lust that would fall under being youthful? Take your time and name a few and I will respond after. To my knowledge no one on this site has gone into this subject of youthful lust. I'll give one to start and it is associated with the expression that starts with so many at a very early age...'That's mine, give it to me'. What form of youthful lust is that and how does it develop if it is never dealt with through growing up?

 

[sweetspiritgirl]

We can lose our salavation ..read the story about saul...the Holy spirit left him and he also was tormented by evil spirits.I pray a scripture thats in the bible..Lord do not let your holy spirit ever leave me nor forsake me..yes u can lose your heavely tatse and nvr to experience it again as the bible says..But if you worry about it..then thats the love of Christ saying this is the way walk there of it..Even Satan once Gods most loved angel fell from heaven for wanting to be God..we all know that things change ..feelings change we cannot have a guarantee to be heirs of God if we forsake his word and his ways...We are saved by grace ..thats a start...but it will not save us if we decide to live a way that displeases God ..blessings

 

[Mediate]

There is a problem here. This argument will go on forever.

The problem is this; Is salvation all I care about?

Why do I think about whether I have it, or don't have it at all?

Is that a selfish way of thinking?

is that working towards a goal with the guise of charity, but really the end intent is only for myself?

What then is the alternative?

Complete humility is the alternative.

I do not think about it because it is not mine to decide.

All I know is, I love God. I love Jesus. I want to help others.

That's it.

I wish to love.

Jesus told me He died for mankind's sins. Let that mean to you what that means to you.

John told me that Jesus died not only for my sins, but the sins of the whole world. Let that mean to you, what it means to you.

For God is as He is.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We can lose our salavation ..read the story about saul...the Holy spirit left him and he also was tormented by evil spirits.I pray a scripture thats in the bible..Lord do not let your holy spirit ever leave me nor forsake me..yes u can lose your heavely tatse and nvr to experience it again as the bible says..But if you worry about it..then thats the love of Christ saying this is the way walk there of it..Even Satan once Gods most loved angel fell from heaven for wanting to be God..we all know that things change ..feelings change we cannot have a guarantee to be heirs of God if we forsake his word and his ways...We are saved by grace ..thats a start...but it will not save us if we decide to live a way that displeases God ..blessings

i think Jesus said it best.

Those who believe in me (have faith and trust me completely) ARE NOT CONDEMNED

Those who do not believe ARE ALREADY CONDEMNED because they have not believed in the son of God.


There is no Grey area here. You either have trust in Christ and are saved from Condemnation, or you do not Trust God and are still living in your condemnation.l there is no middle ground, there is no side streets so we can take a different path, there is one way and one way only. Straight and narrow is the gate that leads to eternal life. So many want to take the side streets, and miss the one way which will save them.

Man can not lose salvation, because man could never earn salvation. Man can not lose something given to them they they could never earn in the first place. It is only when we realize this one truth that we can truly repent and give it ALL to God. As Jesus told one of the most religious, the most Biblical knowledgeable and the most law abiding citizen in his time, You, being a teacher of the Jews, do not understand that You ALL need to be born again? Then he told them HOW to be born again (that all who believe will have eternal life) and then told him how they will not be born again (he who does not believe is still condemned)

 

[Bookends]

We can lose our salavation ..read the story about saul...the Holy spirit left him and he also was tormented by evil spirits.I pray a scripture thats in the bible..Lord do not let your holy spirit ever leave me nor forsake me..yes u can lose your heavely tatse and nvr to experience it again as the bible says..But if you worry about it..then thats the love of Christ saying this is the way walk there of it..Even Satan once Gods most loved angel fell from heaven for wanting to be God..we all know that things change ..feelings change we cannot have a guarantee to be heirs of God if we forsake his word and his ways...We are saved by grace ..thats a start...but it will not save us if we decide to live a way that displeases God ..blessings

Ok, please explain to me how you interpret this verse?

“I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand…” (John 10:28).

 

[simplyme_bekah]

no ....no....no....no........no.....bless our Heavenly Father and Lord Jesus....nope, nada can happen because your soul belongs to Jesus if you are His child and nada can ever never take that away from Him. He says so in the Bible.

 

[Mediate]

He could be talking about when they actually RECIEVE their eternal life. Obviously, after they die and have ALREADY lived good lives.

 

[Bookends]

There is a problem here. This argument will go on forever.

The problem is this; Is salvation all I care about?

Why do I think about whether I have it, or don't have it at all?

Is that a selfish way of thinking?

is that working towards a goal with the guise of charity, but really the end intent is only for myself?

What then is the alternative?

Complete humility is the alternative.

I do not think about it because it is not mine to decide.

All I know is, I love God. I love Jesus. I want to help others.

That's it.

I wish to love.

Jesus told me He died for mankind's sins. Let that mean to you what that means to you.

John told me that Jesus died not only for my sins, but the sins of the whole world. Let that mean to you, what it means to you.

For God is as He is.

Why even come here and discuss these, IMO, secondary issues then? You can make the point that all this is vanity.