A little while back, you were kvetching that the government doesn't spend enough money for education on prenatal care. Might want to excuse yourself for a minute, your bias is showing.
Pregnancies from rape a "gift from God"?????
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A little while back, you were kvetching that the government doesn't spend enough money for education on prenatal care. Might want to excuse yourself for a minute, your bias is showing.
the rape happened because God does allow free will and sometimes people do things to others they shouldn't, we are all guilty of sin, the rape is a horrible thing, but the chile that is the result of this has no choice in the matter, a child is always a gift, even in the face of terrible circumstances, is it right to take one horrible crime and sin and then murder a child and create a second one? if a woman doesnt want a reminder of what happened, someone would gladly take that baby and love and raise them
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Hava91
Guest
And no, abortion wont take away the memory, but it might stop a woman from killing herself. in many situuations, women KNOW they cannot handle having the child. so its either carry to term this thing that you will bear hatred for, that will pain you every day and remind you, have this thing inside you for 9 months and cause yourself more pain in childbirth from his mistake - almost always causing severe deppression, sometimes to the point of suicide ooooor have an abortion which is extremely emotionally, physically, and mentally painful for the woman anyway. in many cases, its abortion or suicide. would you tell your sister, daughter, mother to commit suicide before abortion? because if it goes through that legally a woman does not have that choice there will b many more suicides from woman who cannot bear t do it themselves, or find a place to do it illegally. n then YOU raise the suicide rate because you think its better to take that choice away. have they not had enough choices already taken from them?
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Hava91
Guest
basically re-wrote a previous statement. phone gliched and said the other didnt send so excuse the repeat.
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Hava91
Guest
Actually, I'm going to excuse myself from this thread. most people dont seem to get what im saying. if god gave us free will, why are we okay with taking peoples choices away? Most of you are using words like "the woman" "she" but you dont have any experiance. you have never been in that situation and you think you are fit to descern for those who have been. i dont see God in this debate, i dont see his love. i see people worried about the word of the law, but not the emotions or mental well - being of his children.
While there can be no doubt that all life is precious and sacred and a gift from God, in the case of rape, if the mother chooses not to give up the baby for adoption but also doesn't want to keep it after it is born, that then becomes another story since the child would not have been conceived by moral willingness or through an act of Love. Therefore, since the Republicans appear so willing to defend that stance, the answer appears to be that since they certainly have the financial means and widely believe in the cause, they should be eagerly reaching out for those children as they can and should be the ones to take those babies and give proper care to those unwanted children! What else could be more fair under the circumstances.
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violakat
Guest
It's interesting how those who feel that abortion is a right for all women, and those who feel that it's murdering the unborn, usually never think about what abortion does to the woman. And what's even more interesting are those who bring up rape cases do not usually even know the statistics of women having an abortion because of rape.
Statistics, overtime, is showing that abortion is for more harmful to women. There are studies that are currently or have been recently done in several European nations showing how detrimental it is to women, not just emotionally, but also physically. Maybe, instead of arguing over whose right or wrong, we, as a society should do some massive research, say at least a year or two, before deciding if abortion is right or wrong. Go back and study the cases of women who had abortion 10, 20, and even 30 years ago, and see what there life is like today. Talk with women who've recently had abortions, or who had abortions in the past. Listen to women who've been raped and chose to give their child up for adoption, chose to keep their baby, or chose to abort and try to feel what it was like for them, to feel their emotional struggles. Don't just quote what others feed you, study for yourself.
On a personal stance, I can't say what I would do if every faced with this situation. Knowing myself, I would more then likely give the child up for adoption rather then commit an abortion. And if every woman were honest with themselves, unless they have been through it, more then likely, they do not know what they would do, specifically because they are not dealing with all the emotions of being pregnant from rape. If we are following God with all our heart, then more then likely abortion will not occur. But the fact is, I've seen and heard many young women and men say one thing, live one thing, follow God with all their heart, and then the minute something happens, something insides them snap and then quickly they go on a path they said they never would.
While I do not approve of abortion, I cannot force others to agree with me. I can only tell others why I feel the way I do. And from what I've seen and heard, abortion does not only destroy the child inside, but quite often, the woman as well. Yes rape is a horrible thing for anyone to go through, and pregnancy only compounds the emotion. However, I do not feel that abortion is the answer for heart wrenching situations, such as this.
Statistics, overtime, is showing that abortion is for more harmful to women. There are studies that are currently or have been recently done in several European nations showing how detrimental it is to women, not just emotionally, but also physically. Maybe, instead of arguing over whose right or wrong, we, as a society should do some massive research, say at least a year or two, before deciding if abortion is right or wrong. Go back and study the cases of women who had abortion 10, 20, and even 30 years ago, and see what there life is like today. Talk with women who've recently had abortions, or who had abortions in the past. Listen to women who've been raped and chose to give their child up for adoption, chose to keep their baby, or chose to abort and try to feel what it was like for them, to feel their emotional struggles. Don't just quote what others feed you, study for yourself.
On a personal stance, I can't say what I would do if every faced with this situation. Knowing myself, I would more then likely give the child up for adoption rather then commit an abortion. And if every woman were honest with themselves, unless they have been through it, more then likely, they do not know what they would do, specifically because they are not dealing with all the emotions of being pregnant from rape. If we are following God with all our heart, then more then likely abortion will not occur. But the fact is, I've seen and heard many young women and men say one thing, live one thing, follow God with all their heart, and then the minute something happens, something insides them snap and then quickly they go on a path they said they never would.
While I do not approve of abortion, I cannot force others to agree with me. I can only tell others why I feel the way I do. And from what I've seen and heard, abortion does not only destroy the child inside, but quite often, the woman as well. Yes rape is a horrible thing for anyone to go through, and pregnancy only compounds the emotion. However, I do not feel that abortion is the answer for heart wrenching situations, such as this.
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violakat
Guest
I sort of agree with you here. However, I feel that it's the Christians who should be far more outspoken in finding ways to help women struggling with rape and pregnancy, as it is usually the Christians, from what I've seen, who are the most outspoken on abortion. I'm neither a Republican or Democrat, but I am a Christian, and as a Christian who opposes abortion, I'm willing to help us much as I possibly can to assist women chose not to abort, but rather keep their child or give it up for adoption. And while I can't help much financially, I can help by being a listening ear or help them find the resources they need. I can also go to God in prayer for them.
And quite honestly, every person who calls them self a Christian should be praying for all the single mothers out there on a regular basis, and the single fathers who keep their children when the mothers do not want them. And no, I'm not leaving out parents who are married, but it's harder for single parents, then for married parents. I grew up in a single parent family, simply because my father died when I was a child. I'm grateful that I had an Uncle and Aunt who chose to step up and help my mom through the rough times. But not every single parent has those resources. And too often the single parent gets left in the cracks, especially the moms.
So, if we are wanting to stop abortion, then we need to be willing to help meet the needs of these young women: financially, emotionally and physical needs (food, shelter-after all, some of them don't always have places to stay.)
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twofeet
Guest
I think the best way to understand this topic as with many others is pretty simple:
Do you REALLY believe that Jesus did a COMPLETED work on the cross?
Do you REALLY believe He can set us free from the past and heal all those deep emotional wounds?
Do you REALLY believe that in Christ we really are more than conquerors of all this life throws at us?
In the light of that, is there ever a justified reason BEFORE ALMIGHTY GOD to kill an unborn baby?
Do you REALLY believe that Jesus did a COMPLETED work on the cross?
Do you REALLY believe He can set us free from the past and heal all those deep emotional wounds?
Do you REALLY believe that in Christ we really are more than conquerors of all this life throws at us?
In the light of that, is there ever a justified reason BEFORE ALMIGHTY GOD to kill an unborn baby?
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TheGrungeDiva
Guest
Well, that seems simple to me.
Yes, yes, yes, and yes.
I don't think it's that simple to most people, however.
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twofeet
Guest
I know its not that simple to most but at the end of the day I dont think man or woman will ever be able to justify to Almighty God a GOOD reason as to why its ok. However, Im sure they can to each other.
I think Job learnt that lesson well in the last 3 chapters. Job went from being a man who thought he lost everything, to a guy who realised he lost nothing because nothing belong to him in the first place....not even his kids. God creates life, no one else. Its ALL Gods design.
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Walkinginfaith
Guest
Liberal people want freedom to do as they choose, yet they are falling into a socialist goverment for this freedom. The larger the goverment, the less freedom you have. I am not sure why people dont realize this.
I would like to point out 3 things.
#1 the rights to abortion is not even an issue in congress. Not to mention these issues are currently decided on a state level. Romney wants to keep them what way. What you see on TV and read on the internet is another attempt at "spin and bait" taking a candidates personal beliefs and spinning to wreak havoc in people. Goverment will not take away the right to abortion because they know if they do, people will be performing these abortions in back alleys again.Goverment wants the right to control it.
The problem conservatives are having is with Obama Care where abortion is concerned. This program takes away the choices we have as participants by mandating that we pay for it (taxes) .It completly disregards Our Religious vaules. Please research all the lawsuits from Catholic Churchs against Obama Care. Should we have to pay for something we believe is wrong? Why couldnt this money be used for counceling the mother steering her towards adoption and to help fund the cost of adoption. People want to adopt but the cost is so high it prevents a loving family from adopting.
The entire issue of a womans body and right to choose is not really the issue in congress- it is a SPIN to bait and hate again. The REAL issue is" should abortion be included in our health care" and offered in family planning funded by our goverment. Mr O, has signed a bill saying Yes!! it should be covered in ALL of our health care(meaning we will all be participants to paying for abortions.) He also signed a bill saying children(MINORS) can have an abortion without their parents consent. I would also like to remind people that when a goverment controls abortion it is one step closer to what goes on in China, where the goverment makes women have abortions. Dont think for one min this could not happen here in USA. Removing parental consent, one step closer to removing rights of supervison of our children.
This are all ways of forming a larger goverment and controling the people.
#2 I do not want the goverment anywhere near my family. Telling me what I have to do or can't do. Let me remind you that our communist friends in China,(whom we are in great debt to) FORCED ABORTION on their civilians. Let me remind you Hiltler too was a socialist leader.
People better wake up and keep our goverment out of our lives and keep it small. Everytime goverment bails out a company(guess what.... they control that company thru what they call regulations, everytime they get a person on goverment assistance, that person is dependent on the goverment.
#3 A BIG Goverment is dangerous because it sets us up one step closer for socialism.
Defined-A socialist economic system would consist of a system of production and distribution organized to directly satisfy economic demands and human needs, so that goods and services would be produced directly for use instead of for private profit driven by the accumulation of capital.
I would like to add that Romney may not be the greatest person in the world, but he is whole heartedly for a smaller goverment. He wants to keep abortion managed on a state level, and not overseen by the Federal Goverment. Romney is not trying to sell us out to China nor is he wanting to take away a womans right to choose. I do not view Romney as a god, but in him I have hope.
If I have misunderstood something, I apoligize. Dont stone me. This is my understanding/views and not anything I found on the internet. I just wanted to share .......
I would like to point out 3 things.
#1 the rights to abortion is not even an issue in congress. Not to mention these issues are currently decided on a state level. Romney wants to keep them what way. What you see on TV and read on the internet is another attempt at "spin and bait" taking a candidates personal beliefs and spinning to wreak havoc in people. Goverment will not take away the right to abortion because they know if they do, people will be performing these abortions in back alleys again.Goverment wants the right to control it.
The problem conservatives are having is with Obama Care where abortion is concerned. This program takes away the choices we have as participants by mandating that we pay for it (taxes) .It completly disregards Our Religious vaules. Please research all the lawsuits from Catholic Churchs against Obama Care. Should we have to pay for something we believe is wrong? Why couldnt this money be used for counceling the mother steering her towards adoption and to help fund the cost of adoption. People want to adopt but the cost is so high it prevents a loving family from adopting.
The entire issue of a womans body and right to choose is not really the issue in congress- it is a SPIN to bait and hate again. The REAL issue is" should abortion be included in our health care" and offered in family planning funded by our goverment. Mr O, has signed a bill saying Yes!! it should be covered in ALL of our health care(meaning we will all be participants to paying for abortions.) He also signed a bill saying children(MINORS) can have an abortion without their parents consent. I would also like to remind people that when a goverment controls abortion it is one step closer to what goes on in China, where the goverment makes women have abortions. Dont think for one min this could not happen here in USA. Removing parental consent, one step closer to removing rights of supervison of our children.
This are all ways of forming a larger goverment and controling the people.
#2 I do not want the goverment anywhere near my family. Telling me what I have to do or can't do. Let me remind you that our communist friends in China,(whom we are in great debt to) FORCED ABORTION on their civilians. Let me remind you Hiltler too was a socialist leader.
People better wake up and keep our goverment out of our lives and keep it small. Everytime goverment bails out a company(guess what.... they control that company thru what they call regulations, everytime they get a person on goverment assistance, that person is dependent on the goverment.
#3 A BIG Goverment is dangerous because it sets us up one step closer for socialism.
Defined-A socialist economic system would consist of a system of production and distribution organized to directly satisfy economic demands and human needs, so that goods and services would be produced directly for use instead of for private profit driven by the accumulation of capital.
I would like to add that Romney may not be the greatest person in the world, but he is whole heartedly for a smaller goverment. He wants to keep abortion managed on a state level, and not overseen by the Federal Goverment. Romney is not trying to sell us out to China nor is he wanting to take away a womans right to choose. I do not view Romney as a god, but in him I have hope.
If I have misunderstood something, I apoligize. Dont stone me. This is my understanding/views and not anything I found on the internet. I just wanted to share .......
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OFM
Guest
i agree with some points not al but i respect you and your views allways hey thanx for taking the time to share be blessed and vote HAPPY........
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OFM
Guest
Also i was protestingv at an abortion clinic once,the young lady died in the parking lot the medical staff did nothing 50 ft from the door,they said it was not thier responsability,she bleed to death that clinic was closed 2 weeks later.i am blessed i am adopted,and i wish this children would all be kept or adopted,as i was.
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Walkinginfaith
Guest
Nothing good comes from free abortions. It desensitives the value of life
As a christian and a tax payer you are helping. What you may not realize , you are helping towards paying for abortions, through the free family planning programs offered to people.(funded by tax payers) That is the reason Christians are in an uproar.
I agree with your ideas on helping mothers , but through counceling and helping her view this baby is a little life that needs to be loved as God so loves us, in Mercy and Grace. Counceling her by steering her towards saving the life and giving it up for adoption to a loving family, if she does not want the child. Allowing the mother to realize what a wonderful thing she did for the baby and the family whom adopted it.
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OFM
Guest
i agree with the post walkin-in-faith shared somefree health catre is health-death,especially spiritually,i know a women at a church when i lived in augsta maine,she had 4 abortions,got married was blessed with a beautiful little girl some church members walked away from her,when she shared on Jesus Healing Testimonyi stayed good friends we need to love women christian or not who have had abortions not walk away from them,Jesus Forgives He does not Ever Walk Away from any one ever,look at me i am very imperfect and He is still with me.Jesus Forgives we must forgive those who perform or work in this planned parent hood so called health care a young lady worked at i church i was in,she worked for planned parent good pay benefits ect. she left cause she was lead by the Lord that Abotion was wrong,murder and a Mortal Sin agianist God.
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violakat
Guest
Did I say anything about family planning programs. Actually I was thinking more along the lines of helping the individual girl that you might see in your church or neighborhood. I never mentioned anything about family planning programs. If I were to suggest a program, it would be the Crisis Pregnancy Programs, that are generally run by Christian organizations or people, that provide information for resources to help them keep their children, if they choose, suggest adoption organizations, if they chose that route, and explain the truth of what an abortion is. Generally, they do try and steer the woman away from abortion. In addition to this, many also do fundraisers for basic baby needs, such as diapers, food, etc, just so the moms will have what they need, until they can get back on their feet. Which reminds me of something, a good portion of women only get an abortion because they feel they have no choice. Some, it's because they are being coerced by their boyfriends or family. But a lot is because they feel they can't take care of the child, or do not know where to go. Organizations, like the Crisis Pregnancy Centers I mentioned above, and individuals can step in and help to fill this void, WalkinginFaith. This is what I was talking about.
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AgapeSpiritEyes
Guest
Can’t accept your premise of the fetus in a woman is not Human, Well if we apply this premise then what of its application of Jesus did not satan try to kill Jesus? Was a mass of nonhuman flesh only in Mary? I can't accept that Jesus was not human because His physical body was developing into a Direct fully made only Son of man Son of Father God? Then Jesus flesh was not human? What other being then does God design and then changes His design, because i find nowhere God says He changes the design and gives it a new name dehumaniing it. God's design is that when the laws of formation occur in the physical then a spiritual body follows in developing also because we are a triune being of physical, soulical and spiritual parts and somas. Then Jesus was not a human being developing inside Mary? Well proof of Jesus a real human being along with John The Baptist was the belief and expectancy of humans birthed out of the woman this was and is the belief of people in that era(only a few years ago had any other ideas been conceived contrary to inate hearts of humans in the majority of human histroy). The Holy Spirit filled John the Baptist's spirit when Jesus and Mary were close by while they were being developed to be born into this physical realm world. The Holy Spirit fills humans spirits filling their spirit so they have a spiritual body while it is developing. There is a spirit being in every human being that is growing in the mother before they are birthed out of the Mother. Just because Adam receive his spirit filling his body when God blew into Him is not a valid categorically logic conclusion that it happens that way now foreveryone , this is now the absolute God does NOT literally come down and place His mouth over our mouth and blow a full filling spiritual body into ourfully developed physical body as in Adam God did and now does not form another human this way, God had made Adam to generate and form with his wife to conceive with God, God overseeing His laws His design of human reproduction accompanying Adam in when a physical adamite is conceived with a woman then He Godthe Father of our spirit conceives the spirit to grow and form as the physical body of the child grows in the mother. This is a viable conclusion to the few premises and it is consistent.
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OFM
Guest
Human Life Has a Beginning Thier is A Beginning to Our Human Life thats Called the"MOMENT OF CONCEPTION" We all had one we need and must have 1,Life starts at that Point for us our we are never going to be born,its a 9 month process for that till the "Birth Process"takes place then We are All Born on what is known and called Our Birthday.We all have one.for me well,i was[born,on my Birthday].{all of you were too}.....