The False Doctrine of OSAS

[marianna]

Where do you guys come up with this stuff???

Who is saying they earned the rightvto be saved. On page 7, I'm quite clear saying 'I am running a race,' for getting 'a crown of life from Christ Jesus.' So as did Paul. So as do will you

Grace alone is wrong, mari, faith, too, and, that's the BIG difference-maker word of Ephesians 2:8 , mari, and, wow, the Lord leads, great, I don't need to bring up 'I run the race' page 7 post, thanks

Are Grace and faith gifts?

 

[Crossfire]

Amen!
God Bless!
And even not in church yet perhaps. For He searches out the sinners where they are.
We don't see Him at work in others unless we're directly working with them and can hear their professions.
We may not see those He is working with at all - until later if He delivers them to our own assembly, part of His Houshold!

I like your post very much.



Why did the church give up on you?
Because you evidently were stuck in sin, so they determined you were reprobate?
Yes, this is exactly the worst case scenario, isn't it. Hypocritical.

I'm grateful The LORD is using you to rectify that problem.
Compassion for sinners is what Jesus wants.
God Bless
marianna

Believe me, I was a backslider in every sense of the word. I knew the Lord as a young man but because of the hypocrisy in the church I willingly turn my back on God and lived like a hellion. There is no doubt in my mind that if I had died during this time, I would have gone to hell. Fortunately, God had other plans.

Regardless if a person believes that one can forfeit their salvation or not does not change the fact that if we are willing to humble ourselves and run to God, He is faithful to forgive. I believe that this truth needs to be our emphasis when discipling others.

 

[cfultz3]

Actually it is not called ripping into each other. it is called exposing a false gospel of works. Putting self above God and expecting God to reward you for it, and telling the world how righteous you are. when God tells us our works are as filthy rags which would make God puke.

Actually, it is accepting God in all His administrations.

 

[Abiding]

People may not learn or change up immediately in these discussions.
But they do learn, it may take some time for it to sink in.

Its not so good to be wishywashy so even in our wrong doctrine
while we hold to it we are gona be firm...but we change and grow.

Others that read these discussions also learn...so as long as nobody
brings out any illegal weapons id say let the games continue.

 

[marianna]

Is it ripping into another, Ricky, when their gospel explains a false understanding of one's getting to Heaven.

Justification is a lot MORE than just the cross and, YES, it is true that one is SAVED by the finished work on the cross but the gospel does NOT stop there, it only has just begun .

Please present the Gospel in a few sentences, as if you were preaching to a lost soul who is crashing around in fear and guilt.

He asks you:

"What must I do to be saved"?

 

[marianna]

Actually it is not called ripping into each other. it is called exposing a false gospel of works. Putting self above God and expecting God to reward you for it, and telling the world how righteous you are. when God tells us our works are as filthy rags which would make God puke.

This is telling it like it is.
If people heard the Law preached more maybe they would be "Eternally Grateful" for the Good News of what Jesus has done for them.

marianna

 

[marianna]

You guys must be kidding, sigh.....

Where do I even once speak of works for salvation?


I don't. I speak of Truth. For justification, we need both to believe in Jesus and also we need the Holy Spirit in our body.

Like I said, read 1 Cor. 6 and get back to me, and, this has nothing to do with works, but, for many, it has to do with the Lord leading them to a greater understanding of things not seen, which can only be seen through faith

You said there were 4 things one had to do to "get the Holy Spirit"
#4 was etc.

Don't you know when you believed in what the Bible says about JESUS you received the Holy Spirit?
It can even be argued you received the Spirit first, in order to believe!

If you don't have the Spirit, you NEVER had Jesus.

 

[homwardbound]

The following questions should be asked by you and honestly answered: If we are in our sabbatical rest now, then is our rest also constituted with the works of the flesh? That is, has the Spirit cleansed my works and all which remains now are my works done in righteousness through Him? Has He told me as He told Jesus, 'Well done. Nobecause of unbeliefw come and rest while I make your enemies your footstool?' Has it yet been said of me as it was said concerning God, 'and God saw all His works, in that they were good, and He rested'? And as long as I are here in the flesh, have I yet become a witness of my fellow brothers as they who have obtained rest and look down upon me as I too run to obtain that same rest? So, if rest is now, why do I yet toil in the works I received upon God's expulsion of us from Eden?

Hebrews chapter 4 talks about how they in the day when they were led out of bondage in egypt that they never entered his rest because of unbelief, and the onlt work left is to work to enter his rest, and this done through belief in him where righteousness is attained by faith not by works, even Paul backed this up with all his works of the law were and are dung, and that he forsook them all in order to gain Christ. Therefore I have given up my works also and thus entered into his restwhere now he God does the works first in me and afterward thrtough me, this is the Holy Ghost doing the work whileall I am is the vessel, like a water glass I am used by God as God sees fit, just as I use a water glass for its purpose to get a drink when I see fit. Could anyone here imagine a water glass complaining that it has not been used in a while. So then us being a water glass God' that is, why do we cry and throw fits, either we are in God or we are not? In God the works are finishewd from the foundation of the world, so belief and enter into his rest as he already rested from the begining of this world. Through belief we unfortunately get caught up in works and diminish the Faith and do not rest in him.
John 15 is good ex: a vine or even a tree branch which is what we are the branches the extension of the tree God being the tree, we being the branches. Tell me does a branch when fruit is on it is it of the branch are the tree? Can a branch produce fruit? Does the branch grunt and groan for fruit production? No the branch all it ever does is abide in the tree and the tree does all the producing, the branch in essence just rests and thus bears fruit on the branch produced by God. This is what God meant when he said enter into his rest, so you can rest from your works and just abide in him and he will produce all the fruiit needed in you the believer, and youwill just bear it. Nowyou might only have one piece of fruit on your tree, while others have globs of fruit as so it may seem, I tell you the truth just be concerned about wheher you are abiding and not concerned if others are or not.
Homwardbound I am

 

[Abiding]

IF your not led by the Spirit(this does not mean follow)
then your not saved Rom 8:14.

This again is what happens when we BELIEVE the gospel
Romans 8:15-17
15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery lleading to FEAR again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

 

[marianna]

Believe me, I was a backslider in every sense of the word. I knew the Lord as a young man but because of the hypocrisy in the church I willingly turn my back on God and lived like a hellion.

What kind of hypocrisy was in that church?

 

[cfultz3]

You guys must be kidding, sigh.....

Where do I even once speak of works for salvation?


I don't. I speak of Truth. For justification, we need both to believe in Jesus and also we need the Holy Spirit in our body.

Like I said, read 1 Cor. 6 and get back to me, and, this has nothing to do with works, but, for many, it has to do with the Lord leading them to a greater understanding of things not seen, which can only be seen through faith

Brother,

this is their defence towards obedeince to God. It is argued that if one must follow Christ then that is work. If it is work then they will say, ' I wont follow His Spirit' (yet this part theysomehow agree to because it says Christ and will therefore look only at the grace part of salvation, while nullifying we are to be led by His Spirit. God indeeds lulls the spirit part of us and by such are we spoken to by His Spirit ).

But because we speak on the full adminstration of God's new Covenant, and say that we are to follow the Spiriit, and we know that the Spirit is God and is sent from/of God and Jesus, but yet they do not understand us saying this, although we all know that there is but one God. So maybe, we should say follow Jesus' Spirit, even God's Spirit, seeing that we are spiritual. They see 'the' when we say 'the Spirit' and by this, we are leaving out the true meaning of God. God is our Father, and is the Word (Jesus, in the flesh), and is the Spirit (the part of Him who speaks to our spirit, seeing that we (our souls) are to die to the flesh and become spiritual).

If I have caused one to be blashemious because I have used 'the Spirit' and made it seem that I am giving 'the Spirit' more of a place then Jesus and/or God. I am sorry. I just thought we all knew that we have but one God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Where do you guys come up with this stuff???

Who is saying they earned the rightvto be saved. On page 7, I'm quite clear saying 'I am running a race,' for getting 'a crown of life from Christ Jesus.' So as did Paul. So as do will you

You just said it. You are running the race, hoping to finish it to get a reward. this hopeing to earn the right to be saved.

And you ask us where we get it??

Grace alone is wrong, mari, faith, too, and, that's the BIG difference-maker word of Ephesians 2:8 , mari, and, wow, the Lord leads, great, I don't need to bring up 'I run the race' page 7 post, thanks

No grace plus works is wrong.

if it is grace, it is no longer works. otherwise grace is no longer grace.

and if it is not of grace, it is of works. And your denying your working? It is one or the other, not both,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Please note that not once did I ever say anything close to your statement. This is something that you yourself have interjected into the conversation because you are attempting to argue against a perspective that you assume that I hold to when I never stated such a thing.

lol. I am still trying to figure out what you believe, are you now denying you think one can lose salvation?

 

[GreenNnice]

Please present the Gospel in a few sentences, as if you were preaching to a lost soul who is crashing around in fear and guilt.

He asks you:

"What must I do to be saved"?

First off, I am but a pure vessel, want to be, and, with His Spirit guiding me, I am The Holy Spirit changes people, convicts someone locked in a battle of 'Christ Or not' with His counsel, advocacy, and, as Jesus stated, in so many words, He gives the seeker help.

I would mention that Christ died for them and let them know of how much Jesus went through, sublease Jesus, to torturously take on the sins of the world by subjecting Himself to NOT His will but His Father's .
How that act on the cross brought us to Christ and purged ALL'S sins from existence to non-existence, those who believe, their sins, past, present, future, are forgiven, Scripture says, gone to the 'sea of forgetfulness.' So, they're gone . You only need accept Christ and believe on Him for eternal life instead of eternal death.'

The Spirit will work from.there, mari, in a great and powerful way.


And, no, speaking of your post quote below, your argument is false , like your OSAS deadened belief, the Spirit does not come into the believer immediately most often, it takes time for that new believer to just understand that they are saved and as they go to church more and more and increase their FAITH that person will show self ready for God to ask them a question, from 1 Cor. 6....

Don't you know, your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit

Indeed, no, the Spirit is received not at your want, but His. Don't try to take His gift, it is a 'gift,' mari, just like He imparts the Spirit to a believer,' He imparts the manifestation gifts of Hisself to those He deems ready for them to be GIVEN.

BUT, Christ, for those true in faith and running His way the Spirit is given. God does not hold back Hisself to one who faithfully iscwanting to know more of Him after having first believed in the Cross

You said there were 4 things one had to do to "get the Holy Spirit"
#4 was etc.

Don't you know when you believed in what the Bible says about JESUS you received the Holy Spirit?
It can even be argued you received the Spirit first, in order to believe!

If you don't have the Spirit, you NEVER had Jesus.

 

[Abiding]

The following questions should be asked by you and honestly answered: If we are in our sabbatical rest now, then is our rest also constituted with the works of the flesh? That is, has the Spirit cleansed my works and all which remains now are my works done in righteousness through Him? Has He told me as He told Jesus, 'Well done. Nobecause of unbeliefw come and rest while I make your enemies your footstool?' Has it yet been said of me as it was said concerning God, 'and God saw all His works, in that they were good, and He rested'? And as long as I are here in the flesh, have I yet become a witness of my fellow brothers as they who have obtained rest and look down upon me as I too run to obtain that same rest? So, if rest is now, why do I yet toil in the works I received upon God's expulsion of us from Eden?

Hebrews chapter 4 talks about how they in the day when they were led out of bondage in egypt that they never entered his rest because of unbelief, and the onlt work left is to work to enter his rest, and this done through belief in him where righteousness is attained by faith not by works, even Paul backed this up with all his works of the law were and are dung, and that he forsook them all in order to gain Christ. Therefore I have given up my works also and thus entered into his restwhere now he God does the works first in me and afterward thrtough me, this is the Holy Ghost doing the work whileall I am is the vessel, like a water glass I am used by God as God sees fit, just as I use a water glass for its purpose to get a drink when I see fit. Could anyone here imagine a water glass complaining that it has not been used in a while. So then us being a water glass God' that is, why do we cry and throw fits, either we are in God or we are not? In God the works are finishewd from the foundation of the world, so belief and enter into his rest as he already rested from the begining of this world. Through belief we unfortunately get caught up in works and diminish the Faith and do not rest in him.
John 15 is good ex: a vine or even a tree branch which is what we are the branches the extension of the tree God being the tree, we being the branches. Tell me does a branch when fruit is on it is it of the branch are the tree? Can a branch produce fruit? Does the branch grunt and groan for fruit production? No the branch all it ever does is abide in the tree and the tree does all the producing, the branch in essence just rests and thus bears fruit on the branch produced by God. This is what God meant when he said enter into his rest, so you can rest from your works and just abide in him and he will produce all the fruiit needed in you the believer, and youwill just bear it. Nowyou might only have one piece of fruit on your tree, while others have globs of fruit as so it may seem, I tell you the truth just be concerned about wheher you are abiding and not concerned if others are or not.
Homwardbound I am

Amen the branch is nothing more than dead wood drawing its life from the vine, the fruit merely
hangs from it in its season while the vinedresser prunes and dresses it.

Israel in the wilderness had ALL their needs met...whether they believed it or not...all
they needed was provided by grace...yet they complained and thought He was an evil
God and took things into their own hands...even to calling on other gods(means and methods) to provide

All rest is is believing, really believing.....then fruit and good works are done in us coming from the vine.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

lol. Did He say he stopped us from leaving him?
Did he stop the prodigal son? No. Did the prodigal stop being the son even when he left? No


Did he stop the sheep from leaving? no. Did the sheep willingly come back when he went after them? yes. --Assumption. Does the Shepherd relocate the other sheep so that that one sheep can remain where he is? Or does He say that after so much attempt if he does not repent and return that he is to be treated as an alien, a tax collector. Does it not also say that it is not the will of our Father that one of His children should perish. But yet, we have an example of one who is a brother of faith and yet if he will not repent even under the witness of two or three then he is to become a heathen, one who is a foreigner of that house of faith. Context is important, and with that in mind, here is the Scripture speaking what to do with an unrepentant brother who has gone astray:


Mat 18:12-17How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of thatsheep,than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.But if he will not hearthee, thentake with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.And if he shall neglect to hear them, tellitunto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Ok what your point, Your twisting again. You just proved what I said, that God will go after the one sheep. Now your saying he will not go after all the sheep which has Gone Astry?

As for the rst of the passage, What does scripture say, if they will not hear you, send them into the world so their FLESH MAY BE DESTROYED, but their SOUL SAVED. How can their SOUL be saved if your saying they lose salvation? You contradict yourself so many times.
　

Why did you TWIST what was being discussed. --Are we not still talking about OSAS?

we were talking about a sheep going astray and God going to get him, then you twisted it and said they chose to go away, and some attempt to prove they could chose not to come back, even though Jesus himsel said he brings them back. This is called twisting what is being said.

When we leave, that is when the Shepard comes to get us is it not. Which is what you asked.

So your going to use the REASON we left to refute my thought on the REASON we come back? -- We both speak a side. So what was and is said in response to what you have written is my reply to what I have read.

Then stick to it. You said they could chose not to come back. I said scripture does not say this, your response is they chose to leave. One response does not fit the equation because it was never asked. No one questioned the fact they chose to leave, the question was why do they come back.And Christ answered, He left to go find him, and his sheep knew his voice and came back.

If the sheep does not come back, it is because he does not know his voice, which means the sheep was never his to begin with.

 

[GreenNnice]

You just said it. You are running the race, hoping to finish it to get a reward. this hopeing to earn the right to be saved.

And you ask us where we get it??



No grace plus works is wrong.

if it is grace, it is no longer works. otherwise grace is no longer grace.

and if it is not of grace, it is of works. And your denying your working? It is one or the other, not both,

Wake up, eg.

I don't mean to say that I have already achieved these things or that I have already reached perfection. But I press on to possess that perfection for which Christ Jesus first possessed me. No, dear brothers and sisters, I have not achieved it, but I focus on this one thing: Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead, I press on to reach the end of the race and receive the heavenly prize for which God, through Christ Jesus, is calling us.

 

[Crossfire]

In my opinion, it doesn't matter whether you believe that a person who seemingly abandons the faith is a backslider or was never saved to begin with, both are the church's way of giving up on the person. Now I realize there are times when such people want nothing to do with God or the church after such a decision but that doesn't mean that we abandon them. We should still love them, keep them in prayer and be there for them in their time of need (if possible). They may choose to ignore our words, they may even say some really bad things about us but that does not mean we should give up on them. A lot of times it is our actions, the way we treat people, which draws people to trust us rather than what we say anyways.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually, it is accepting God in all His administrations.

hmm. well every religion on earth thinks they are right in this. You think your right, I think I am right. so why don't we just stick to scriptural facts and let God decide who is right?

 

[Abiding]

time for work...but was thinking how a man who loves someone
he will do nearly anything for them even lay down his life.

when a person is regenerated grace even provides the Love
for God in us...thats why we obey Him....not from fear.
Romans 5

Maybe much of this thread is trying to appeal to tares(not those in the thread, but those we have observed in our lives))
we see and scratch our heads and presume too many things.