The False Doctrine of OSAS

[rauleetoe]

Children, children, don't you know , bickering and strife just show your carnality.

Cmon , learn to BE in the Spirit, His yours being ONE, and, be at rest.
learn this and the going of your life will be unsecreted , you can QUIT reading the books. In Him, IS where our rest is ? Yes. The Lord leads, it'a great journey to be living and bresthing as His Spirit leads, for this journey with Him, through His 'Sword' is 'living and active.' . Be living His dream life for you, all your life, for in it and after it both is 'rest,' great rest.

One more thing about immature speaking and strife: unless one be's as a child, they will NOT enter the kingdom of Heaven .

Some people sadly must resort to name calling, I for one, did not..I did not question why it may have took anyone a while to grow or get to a place where they are at now in the Lord, and quite frankly..it is nobody's business..some sadly show their immaturity by name calling and accusing..
My being vegetarian or having a hard time finding a place to call home, or a place that actually felt like home albeit it took a while, is not anyone's concern. If people spent a portion of the energy making false accusations which are based on nothing, or assumptions about others. Maybe they would be fruitfull in their walk and do much for God..just saying..Don't look at me, look at God..

 

[marianna]

Does every one understand the difference between our sabbatical rest we reeive when we are in God's presence and Christ's rest which we have now in the flesh? If you read the very first post of this thread and have questions, I will do my best to explain to you.

In summary, we are not in our sabbatical rest now, seeing that not only are we still in the flesh, but we are also still under Christ's toil.

Christ, on the other hand, offers us rest from the heavy laden of the curse placed upon us from our explusion from Eden and gives us His toils, not as by a curse, but as by a blessing. He also gives us spiitual rest from our battles.

So, have we entered our rest yet? No, we have not rested from our works as Jesus had when He went before God's presence and was told to rest from His works. We must still work Christ's toils (proclaiming the Gospel, being co-participants with the Spirit (acts of love), those things He told us to do).

And in our walk with Him, when in times of needing rest, we then can take our break in Him so that we can continue our journey we are led on.

So, you are shifting your dogmatic position somewhat, to now say we do have rest from the Law; rest from the burden of sin; rest from spiritual battles.

But you have not apologized to those you've trashed for 100s of posts who tried to tell you exactly what you now proclaim yourself (Spirit-led of course).

You still don't understand what rest comes from knowing one has received eternal life; has been accepted in The Beloved; the enmity with God was ended by the propitiation on the Cross, and so on.

In order to avoid humbly apologizing to the Church who has entered His rest, has received His peace, you're going to try to take a step to the side and come back with a new approach - I'll tell you now, though since I'm an abomination-committing OSAS fake sluggard who doubts your "prophetic" calling, you won't accept it:

Hebrews does NOT support your new thesis, either.

-

Also, Is Jesus working at all, now?

So, have we entered our rest yet? No, we have not rested from our works as Jesus had when He went before God's presence and was told to rest from His works.

Do you understand what it signifies that The High Priest SAT DOWN, rather than remained standing?

What is Jesus doing right now? Do you know?

 

[marianna]

But, misunderstanding Scripture is grave, we are not to TAKE AWAY or ADD TO all the words of His Truth.

The why are you doing it?

The Lord leads

Never into continuing confusion and continuing error.
Are you not feeling correction from Him?

This would be a concern.

 

[marianna]

Children, children, don't you know , bickering and strife just show your carnality.

"Grace Shmace" a potential proverb from a very wise man?
I thought you were all set to attack eternal security believers?

Now you're a peacemaker, after multiple threads sowing discord and doubt?

Cmon , learn to BE in the Spirit

But you said that may take a lot of time, 'if He permits'.
You said there were steps to receiving the Spirit.
You said believers can be walking around for (years? decades?) without the Spirit.

His yours being ONE, and, be at rest.

You said there is no rest for believers.

learn this and the going of your life will be unsecreted , you can QUIT reading the books.

Which Books.
The Books of the Bible I suppose.
Now you just perfectly follow a spirit (subjectively).
When was your Graduation Day.

In Him, IS where our rest is ? Yes.

Are you going to apologize for sowing all that discord, where for post after long post you denied believers have their rest in Christ.

The Lord leads, it'a great journey to be living and bresthing as His Spirit leads, for this journey with Him, through His 'Sword' is 'living and active.' .

Should we no longer be in terror of losing our salvation since you appear to have had a change of mind on that one. Is it that easy to undo all that damage.

Be living His dream life for you

God has a dream for my life, you say.
Show me from the Bible where God dreams.
Or has a dream for my life.

all your life, for in it and after it both is 'rest,' great rest.

Are you able to admit your fault to the church, or do you no longer sin.
Did you know false teaching in the Church and proclaiming direct revelation is a grave sin.
Did you know sowing discord and doubting the efficacy of the Cross is an abomination.

One more thing about immature speaking and strife: unless one be's as a child, they will NOT enter the kingdom of Heaven .

So you think immature speaking is the being as a child Jesus meant.

Immature speaking and strife applies to your writing.
Take it to heart.
Do not think you can smooth it all over now without confession.

That is between you and The LORD.
It will be evident whether or not you have had a change of mind (repentence) by your words (fruit).

5This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us. - 1 John 1

 

[Abiding]

Why not discuss certain verses. Why just flop them up and give your opinion.
Then when others want to go through them does it always go to rhetoric and
attitude? Cutsie talk, and longwinded drivel.

1 tim 4, the few obscure attempts in Hebrews and other proof texts would
not stand per this op if it were done correctly.

Answering questions by referring someone back to a past post...or walking
off when cornered just isnt good enuf if you really think your gona make a
real exposure of any error.

It may rally your crew but nothing more...except for the damage done.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well sir, i am terribly sorry that you took it as a 'slam' i did not slam you, but i do see how you being burned as you said by those who seemed to be legalistic and religious caused you to run the other direction to the grace only camp. It does not say in that scripture that they never were saved, and this certain 'tenet' that many of OSAS hold onto is merely a calvinistic reform or in other words the P for perseverance of the saints..which can be clearly refuted as i have shown in hebrews 3, 1 timothy 4, and in romans 11, which speaks that even those who were grafted in can be possibly cut off. Read it for yourself buddy, i did not make that one up..it should be in your bible..unless of course you ripped that page off or whited it out.

Wow. I asked you about what John said, and you came up with this and did not even speak as to what I said. How should I take this? that your hiding from the truth? Afraid to speak to what John said because you know you can't respond?

Should I ask you again?? I think I will..



OSAS does not teach this, a licentious Gospel which uses OSAS inappropriately teaches this.

Thus before you go slamming people on their belief system, you should try to understand what it is they believe.

And this question.



What do you have to say when the same passages says that one who practices unrighteousness has never seen God not have never known him?

Do we listen to john, and understand these people were never saved. Or listen to you, and say once apon a time someone who had a personal relationship with God and KNEW him, suddenly fell into sin and lost his relationship (salvation) and now do not know him.. See the major issue here?





As for what you said here. So as not to be blamed for doing what you did and skirting what you said to detract from what was asked.


1. I never left a legalistic gospel church for grace alone. I left a grace alone church which was legalistic in their deeling with Gods people. and pushing them away instead of helping them.

2. It does say they were never saved. John said they never were of us *saved) Jude said their condemnation was marked before they were even born (licentious) and many many othe rplaces I can prove this.

3. I am not calvanist. Thanks for branding me though. Typical of people who do not wish to find out what one believes and just wants to look at key words and assume they know everything about them based on a type of Church or whatever.

4. Heb 3: 19 So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

who can be saved if they do not believe? let alone have faith. this does not support you. this supports the fact that those who do not have faith will not be saved. Nice try though. typoical of those who refuse to look at context.

5. 1 Tim 4: speaks of the latter times. when whole churches will fall away from teaching faith. and turn to false Gods and other gospels. It does not prove that a person can fall away.

6. Romans 11 is speaking of Gentiles vs Isreal. How a nation was cut off. And a group of people were grafted in, and telling us we should not be to proud, because we as GENTILES can also fall to unbelief and be cut off also. Again, not talking about induvidual people, but a generation of people.

If you want to keep skirting the issues, and refuse to find out what I believe, thats your fualt, not mine..

now ar eyou going to answer the question?

here I will post it again, so you can not try to hid again!

OSAS does not teach this, a licentious Gospel which uses OSAS inappropriately teaches this.

Thus before you go slamming people on their belief system, you should try to understand what it is they believe.

What do you have to say when the same passages says that one who practices unrighteousness has never seen God not have never known him?

Do we listen to john, and understand these people were never saved. Or listen to you, and say once apon a time someone who had a personal relationship with God and KNEW him, suddenly fell into sin and lost his relationship (salvation) and now do not know him.. See the major issue here?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

did you read hebrews 3:14?

did you read heb 3: 19? They did not believe, thats why they failed to work and trust.

Heb 3: 14 is just the author telling them to make sure had had faith and not just mere belief. many have belief, but do not trust God. we know this because they will end up falling away and going back to their own vomit, because they were not made new creatures in God. but were still the same old creatures who have no trust in anything God said.

 

[marianna]

Some people sadly must resort to name calling, I for one, did not..I did not question why it may have took anyone a while to grow or get to a place where they are at now in the Lord, and quite frankly..it is nobody's business..some sadly show their immaturity by name calling and accusing..
My being vegetarian or having a hard time finding a place to call home, or a place that actually felt like home albeit it took a while, is not anyone's concern. If people spent a portion of the energy making false accusations which are based on nothing, or assumptions about others. Maybe they would be fruitfull in their walk and do much for God..just saying..Don't look at me, look at God..

Then why did you bring all that into it? Your stuff is not anyone's concern, but your friends' stuff (who are not here) - why do we need to hear about?
Why?

Because you needed them to buttress your judgments on them (and others who are just lazy sinners).

Why is the length of time it took you to find a comfortable place (by the Grace of God) any different than it is for every single other believer He is dealing with (including your former Christian friends who were doing the same thing as you)?

So it comes back full circle to you:

If people spent a portion of the energy making false accusations which are based on nothing, or assumptions about others....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Most of the time you can tell which argument
is correct by which one has the least personal
insults. You don't have to know jack squat about
a topic but if you will just pay attention to
which side is hurling personal attacks then 99.9%
of the time that is the wrong one.

Yeah, this is true to some point..

I have been called a calvanist, unlearned, not knowing, unsaved. and the many other names I have been called.

people usually do this when they do not have any amunitions against them, so they throw insults around. I guess it makes them feel better.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So, faith without works (Christ's toils) is dead. He says, 'He who loves me will do my commandments...' So, we must have works with faith. Which works? Yes, the works from Christ.

The danger is when we say loss of works will result in loss of salvation. Instead of realising that those who have true faith will work.

No one will be perfect. Thus if works are essential to salvation, and no one will be perfect. we could never be saved by our works. Because we could never work enough to earn salvation. Only a pharisee believes we can work to earn grace, and thus the blood of Christ, which washes away ALL OUR SIN, is not enough.

 

[Abiding]

EG it would be nice if they didnt play hit and run with scripture.

Each context shows the meaning, and it far from whats been
said.

Ill be surprised but blessed if they can endure scrutiny as they
owe to the bible forums.

 

[Abiding]

did you read heb 3: 19? They did not believe, thats why they failed to work and trust.

Heb 3: 14 is just the author telling them to make sure had had faith and not just mere belief. many have belief, but do not trust God. we know this because they will end up falling away and going back to their own vomit, because they were not made new creatures in God. but were still the same old creatures who have no trust in anything God said.

A profession of faith is not saving faith..if you dont believe it in your heart

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Some people sadly must resort to name calling, I for one, did not..I did not question why it may have took anyone a while to grow or get to a place where they are at now in the Lord, and quite frankly..it is nobody's business..some sadly show their immaturity by name calling and accusing..
My being vegetarian or having a hard time finding a place to call home, or a place that actually felt like home albeit it took a while, is not anyone's concern. If people spent a portion of the energy making false accusations which are based on nothing, or assumptions about others. Maybe they would be fruitfull in their walk and do much for God..just saying..Don't look at me, look at God..

You called me a calvanist. That is not name calling? Why don't we stick to Gods word instead of Going of on tangents like this, we expose ourselves to ridicule when we do these things.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A profession of faith is not saving faith..if you dont believe it in your heart

Amen, this is exactly what James was trying to get at when he said if we believe we do well, even demons believe. The fact is mere belief is not enough.

Some believe in Jesus, but want to add works, because they lack faith in his work and his promise apart from their own good deeds/.

Some say they believe in jesus, but do not believe they are rightly condemned, thus can live their life anyway they please, the easy believist who have faith to place thier faith in All God said.

Without faith, there is no salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG it would be nice if they didnt play hit and run with scripture.

Each context shows the meaning, and it far from whats been
said.

Ill be surprised but blessed if they can endure scrutiny as they
owe to the bible forums.

they have been doing it since the word was first written. if this was a personal author today and people did it, they would be brought up on charges, but since this is Gods word, i guess it is ok. I don't get it. Scritpure was not written in verse chapter form, it was written as letters or books. I sometimes wish they would have left it alone. it is much harder to pul a sentance out of a paragraph in misrepresent what it says than it is to pul a verse out which is separated by a number.

 

[Mediate]

The truth is, we all are the goats that need remind ourselves 'i am unworthy. Have mercy on me God'.

The act of work is because of compassion. So if any man counts these works and says 'look at the good tuings I do' then compassion is not truly in him. True compassion does these things for the sake of compassion! For the benifit of another not for the eventual benifit to oneself!

They are down because God wishes us to be charitable and giving toward one another. Because it is good to help a fellow man.

They will be counted by God, as will our sins, and revisited upon us in equal measure. This is that we can berevealed to ourselves in entireity.

The sins we commit unwknowingly are forgiven. The sind we commit knowingly are not. We are in flames for these, that the mirror may reveal to us what is right and benificial instead of these.

We cannot be perfect on our own. We cannot.

But we are afforded the grace of God.

The unpardonable sins are not 'pardonable', but that does not mean that we cannot be reformed from them!

The end result is a cleansing of sin through our own 'torment'.

For we see now darkly.

But, when the light is revealed and the mirror is pointed to us, shall we any longer remain in sin??

We would condemn ourselves, as in our sin, we do.

And through what is 'beyond comprehension', we shall comprehend.

When we are renewed, then it will be clear.

And evety creature on earth and in the sea, and everything that is in them will praise the name of the Lamb. Willingly.

The rod of iron is the word of God. Because it is unbreakable. So loving that even humanity will be agforded choice always.

Yet people will choose God of their OWN volition once the whole truth is revealed.

For we see in part.

Revelation tells us of God's healing for humanity. And each person had their own path to walk in that.

All is well in the kindgom of God.

 

[Abiding]

1 Tim 4 is NOT a proof text of anyone losing salvation. The context(as EG said comes from ch 3) is about Christian
behavior and Paul inserts something apparently the Holyspirit spoke expressly at some time?

That times would come, latter days is a reference to after Pentecost. That people would
leave "the faith" and hook up with doctrines of demons....today we have mormons,
scientology etc...then and now we have groups with both self denial or indulgent lifestyle
Paul warns us to not to be part of.

No matter how hard you squeeze this context you will not be able
to prove this is talking about anyone more than the community that is departing, from "The faith"

 

[Abiding]

The 1 john ones and the hebrews one are very easy...but
i need to go to work soon. I wouldnt mind going through them all.
one by one openningly and honestly.

Not like it hasnt already been done tho and ignored.

 

[rauleetoe]

Then why did you bring all that into it? Your stuff is not anyone's concern, but your friends' stuff (who are not here) - why do we need to hear about?
Why?

Because you needed them to buttress your judgments on them (and others who are just lazy sinners).

Why is the length of time it took you to find a comfortable place (by the Grace of God) any different than it is for every single other believer He is dealing with (including your former Christian friends who were doing the same thing as you)?

So it comes back full circle to you:

I am sorry you think you can read the minds, thoughts and intentions of the heart via forum..you are sadly mistaken.
You once again, are making assumptions..and I honestly do not care to resort to the name calling and accusatory stance you have taking..You are simply wrong about me. Please cease this unnecessary behavior as I never said someone who goes to a bar is a lazy sinner..one must be carefull not to use any doctrine..OSAS or any as excusatory? You do not you say..congratulations..would you like a cookie?
And as far as you beating a dead horse about the length of time it took for me to get where i am at..remember that you were the one who used this to accuse me of not hearing from God or being disobedient..
regardless..of what you think..you really need to stick with what has been truly said..
must i write it in a foreign language for you to comprehend?

-i never said i was better than anyone else..i simply said we should not be spiritually lethargic(thats for all christians)
-I never accused anyone who drank to not be a sincere christian..i said there are those who use liberties to shove it in other people's faces not in love..but in an unloving manner..possibly causing to stumble..and not caring for another brother or sister, whom Christ also has died for.
-I have seen you have done this to others on the forum, please stick to what is being said..stop the flaming insults and act your age please..

 

[rauleetoe]

You called me a calvanist. That is not name calling? Why don't we stick to Gods word instead of Going of on tangents like this, we expose ourselves to ridicule when we do these things.

Show me where i called you a calvinist(learn to spell)
I never did, i simply said that OSAS beliefs originate from calvinism..

Learn to read, and not make false assumptions sir. I did NOT call you a calvinist. You will find no such post.