The unbeliever continued..

[angelofmercy]

I could do this all day, but here's my response.
I realize you, like Mediate, are a universalist.
It's strictly un Biblical, so I am not surprised you have no respect for the Word of God.

Jesus is the LOGOS...the Word.
What do we say to this?

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness (2 Tim. 3:16)

By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit (Eph. 3:4,5)

What was revealed by the holy apostles and prophets is made known to us through the Bible.


For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.

For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ. (1 Cor. 2:10-16)


Interesting that you seek to use the Bible to say the Bible is "but a book".
I won't say more here out of respect for the OP, whose thread I have already trampled all over.


I am sorry, BlackTigress777! I ask you to forgive me.

If we wish to discuss this further, may I suggest we begin a thread for it?

I am not a universalist, I just believe the truth. And for your sakes and an example I quote from the bible. Now if the will of God is to save all, that will being carried out by Jesus, then for what other purpose does it serve?

If ALL of scripture is used to "instruct in righteousness " then let ALL of it be used for that purpose. What is then the purpose of dying "unsaved"? TO INSTRUCT IN RIGHTEOUSNESS!

The problem is in the interpretation of scripture. Does not the bible say that scripture is NOT subjected to private interpretation?

 

[Abiding]

when making a doctrine you are better taking all parallel passages in the bible
on a subject. and allow the 99 help you with the 1 that seems different rather
than the one oddball change the 99.

 

[GreenNnice]

when making a doctrine you are better taking all parallel passages in the bible
on a subject. and allow the 99 help you with the 1 that seems different rather
than the one oddball change the 99.

WE ARE to rightfully divide Scripture, as we ask Him to present it to us right, the Lord leads, but because 'we' are not just to ask but also to seek , Christ in us THEN will help us FIND the Truth, for we have 'the mind of Christ.' We are to faithfully go to His door and....

ASK....
...sEEK and ye shall...
...knock and the door shall be....


King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you

 

[angelofmercy]

when making a doctrine you are better taking all parallel passages in the bible
on a subject. and allow the 99 help you with the 1 that seems different rather
than the one oddball change the 99.

There are many verses supporting the truth of all being saved. It depends on how it is read.

 

[kenisyes]

I am not a universalist, I just believe the truth. And for your sakes and an example I quote from the bible. Now if the will of God is to save all, that will being carried out by Jesus, then for what other purpose does it serve?

If ALL of scripture is used to "instruct in righteousness " then let ALL of it be used for that purpose. What is then the purpose of dying "unsaved"? TO INSTRUCT IN RIGHTEOUSNESS!

The problem is in the interpretation of scripture. Does not the bible say that scripture is NOT subjected to private interpretation?

Watch that you quote accurately (since you did not provide verse numbers, I have to guess):

2Tim 3:16 says all Scripture is profitable (or useful) for instructing in righteousness. It does not say that is its only purpose.

1 Peter 1:20 says that "no prophecy of Scripture is of any private explanation. The King James does use the word interpretation, but that word may have changed its meaning. I pulled this word out of Strongs, for "ellipsis", the Greek word. First, it does not apply to all Scripture, only to those parts of prophecy. The following verses make it clear that Peter (and thus God) is concerned about people claiming to have received private revelation about how to interpret Scriptural prophecy, that is different from the public meaning plainly written in Scripture.

We run into such things occasionally today, like the claim that Jesus was not in fact born of a virgin, but that those Scriptures are symbolic and tell us only that He was brought up in a fairly sinless environment. That privately interprets Isaiah 7:14 as not applicable to Jesus in clear defiance of Matt. 1:22. Even mainline pastors have publically made such statements, and all it does is make Jesus less real than He actually is (I have had to counsel people actually hurt by such statements), thus making Him appear less human, and thus denying what He can achieve in us in this lifetime.

 

[angelofmercy]

Watch that you quote accurately (since you did not provide verse numbers, I have to guess):

2Tim 3:16 says all Scripture is profitable (or useful) for instructing in righteousness. It does not say that is its only purpose.

1 Peter 1:20 says that "no prophecy of Scripture is of any private explanation. The King James does use the word interpretation, but that word may have changed its meaning. I pulled this word out of Strongs, for "ellipsis", the Greek word. First, it does not apply to all Scripture, only to those parts of prophecy. The following verses make it clear that Peter (and thus God) is concerned about people claiming to have received private revelation about how to interpret Scriptural prophecy, that is different from the public meaning plainly written in Scripture.

We run into such things occasionally today, like the claim that Jesus was not in fact born of a virgin, but that those Scriptures are symbolic and tell us only that He was brought up in a fairly sinless environment. That privately interprets Isaiah 7:14 as not applicable to Jesus in clear defiance of Matt. 1:22. Even mainline pastors have publically made such statements, and all it does is make Jesus less real than He actually is (I have had to counsel people actually hurt by such statements), thus making Him appear less human, and thus denying what He can achieve in us in this lifetime.

What that verse means beloved is that no matter what one may THINK, interpret, imagine, exaggerate, or just plain get wrong, scripture or the operation of God is unimpeded by it. It CANNOT BE BROKEN. Because as much as any one of us may know, we only know in part.

 

[RickShafer]

when making a doctrine you are better taking all parallel passages in the bible
on a subject. and allow the 99 help you with the 1 that seems different rather
than the one oddball change the 99.

The rich man in hell.
The first of the great two commandments.
What are we saved from? - Why the necessity of the atonement.

These are things I never hear addressed by this pragmatic gospel of AoM and Mediate.

 

[psychomom]

I am not a universalist, I just believe the truth.

My understanding of universalism is that it states that all mankind is/has been/will be saved by the sacrifice of Christ.
If that is wrong, or I have thought that of you incorrectly, I apologize.

The problem I had was when you stated the Bible is "but a book". I got pretty fired up over it, didn't I? For some reason the whole thing made me think of Hebrews 10:29, but perhaps that was too much cookie dough.

My problem, and what I should estimate to be your dilemma, is what you said above.
Because if the Bible is "but a book", than from whom or what do you derive this "truth" you speak of?
You see, it's either the inspired Word of God from which all Truth (in this world) comes, or it's just another book. It's either living and active, or it's dead. It's either the sword of the Spirit, or it's just another "philosphy and empty deception according to the tradition of men...".

grace and peace,
ellie

 

[psychomom]

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/52146-what-exactly-unbeliever.html#post827852

I dunno if I am doing that right...whether it will show what was written, or just form a link.
I'd like to find out...

In that post Mediate (though I offered the young woman no advice) makes my point.
He states this...
I never said we should make anything up. Nor to go by precepts.

Nor did I try to teach a specific interpretation of doctrine. I gave her the advice that she should question what she hears.

Why do you think there are so many different doctrines?

So many ignorant people who believe exactly what they are told?

There are thousand of pastors, ministers and preachers and many of them teaching a different message.

There is nobody who has authority over me but God. And the same with the girl posting this question.

So again, search it for YOURSELF.

But isn't the logical conclusion of that that we windup with millions, or billions of different "authoritative" sources of "Biblical doctrine"?
As believers, saved by the grace of God through faith in the redemptive work of the cross of Christ, I think we have to have a place
at which to stop the proverbial buck.

Of course we should search the scriptures ourselves.
But the gift of teaching was also given for a reason.

 

[angelofmercy]

My understanding of universalism is that it states that all mankind is/has been/will be saved by the sacrifice of Christ.
If that is wrong, or I have thought that of you incorrectly, I apologize.

The problem I had was when you stated the Bible is "but a book". I got pretty fired up over it, didn't I? For some reason the whole thing made me think of Hebrews 10:29, but perhaps that was too much cookie dough.

My problem, and what I should estimate to be your dilemma, is what you said above.
Because if the Bible is "but a book", than from whom or what do you derive this "truth" you speak of?
You see, it's either the inspired Word of God from which all Truth (in this world) comes, or it's just another book. It's either living and active, or it's dead. It's either the sword of the Spirit, or it's just another "philosphy and empty deception according to the tradition of men...".

grace and peace,
ellie

Beloved be not deceived. If eternal life is NOT found in scripture, then by DEFINITION it is part of the veil that passes away. It is a testimony to is written for our EXAMPLE. Everyone of those people the book talks about are according to the flesh, DEAD......Even Jesus! Because the letter brings death.

Now what's the truth of the matter? That more than likely you grew up in an area in which christianity is dominant religion and the bible absolute. Across the other side of the world another grew up in a muslim environment with the same feelings as you toward his book.

 

[RickShafer]

Beloved be not deceived. If eternal life is NOT found in scripture, then by DEFINITION it is part of the veil that passes away. It is a testimony to is written for our EXAMPLE. Everyone of those people the book talks about are according to the flesh, DEAD......Even Jesus! Because the letter brings death.

Now what's the truth of the matter? That more than likely you grew up in an area in which christianity is dominant religion and the bible absolute. Across the other side of the world another grew up in a muslim environment with the same feelings as you toward his book.

Who said eternal life isn't found in scripture?
It's all over the place.
Jesus is dead? - Really?
He's the only one that conquered death.
Those who make heaven will meet Him with His scars and the holes in His hands and ankles.
He lives in heaven in the same body He walked earth in. - It is His living monument of perfect Love
towards us.
Jesus is not dead, in that you do greatly er.

 

[angelofmercy]

Who said eternal life isn't found in scripture?
It's all over the place.
Jesus is dead? - Really?
He's the only one that conquered death.
Those who make heaven will meet Him with His scars and the holes in His hands and ankles.
He lives in heaven in the same body He walked earth in. - It is His living monument of perfect Love
towards us.
Jesus is not dead, in that you do greatly er.

Do you know Jesus in the flesh? We know Him no more!


Jesus is alive by faith (I mean we CANNOT SEE HIM RIGHT). If you believe this, then I ask you, did He accomplish the complete will of God?

 

[RickShafer]

What do you mean 'we know Him no more?'
I know Him better than I did when I was innocent(a child).
'We cannot see Him right?' - This does not apply to me, because I see Him in the
fullness(to my limited apprehension) of His Grace.
He accomplished the will of God, in that He reconciled lost sinners to Him.
But I am completing the will of God in my life.
And that with Jesus' help, because He sent me His Spirit to show me the way.

 

[angelofmercy]

What do you mean 'we know Him no more?'
I know Him better than I did when I was innocent(a child).
'We cannot see Him right?' - This does not apply to me, because I see Him in the
fullness(to my limited apprehension) of His Grace.
He accomplished the will of God, in that He reconciled lost sinners to Him.
But I am completing the will of God in my life.
And that with Jesus' help, because He sent me His Spirit to show me the way.

2 Corinthians 5:14-18

14*For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15*And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

16*Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

17*Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18*And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Now if all things are of God, of whom do you see excluded from this?

 

[RickShafer]

'Now if all things are of God, of whom do you see excluded from this?'

'Therefore if any man be in Christ'
All those who aren't for a start...........

 

[angelofmercy]

'Now if all things are of God, of whom do you see excluded from this?'

'Therefore if any man be in Christ'
All those who aren't for a start...........

I do not argue that all are not yet in Christ. But to be baptized into Christ is to be so unto His DEATH.

Those who aren't are those who haven't been killed yet. You must CRUCIFY THE OLD MAN, where old things pass away.

 

[RickShafer]

I'm not trying to be flippant, but when you say - 'Those who aren't are those who haven't been killed yet';
do you mean those who haven't died,(most from natural causes)?
And when you say - 'You must CRUCIFY THE OLD MAN, where old things pass away';
Does that mean everyone who dies is doing so? - (Crucifying the old man)
Because technically crucifixion is killing, so does that mean only people who kill themselves are
saved? - I honestly don't know what you mean.
What is your stance? So I can answer it.

 

[angelofmercy]

I'm not trying to be flippant, but when you say - 'Those who aren't are those who haven't been killed yet';
do you mean those who haven't died,(most from natural causes)?
And when you say - 'You must CRUCIFY THE OLD MAN, where old things pass away';
Does that mean everyone who dies is doing so? - (Crucifying the old man)
Because technically crucifixion is killing, so does that mean only people who kill themselves are
saved? - I honestly don't know what you mean.
What is your stance? So I can answer it.

Why twist the very same words you find in the bible?

All those who are physically dead now belong to Christ. Those that are alive and remain (you and me) are dead in trespassess (to be present in the body is to be absent from the Lord). But by the transforming of our minds knowing that I to the law, am dead to it, I don't live but it is Christ who lives through me. In this we are Christ's at His coming.

 

[RickShafer]

Yes, I agree, all those in Christ are His.
But not all of mankind.
"For by grace through faith(in what), you are saved(from what),........"

For there is an unction that not all flesh has.

 

[RickShafer]

'All those who are physically dead now belong to Christ'

All of scripture and common sense flatly rejects this statement.
Do you think because you say something it is so?
How does one glean all who ever lived are reunited with God by reading scripture?
My friend, you have a different gospel.