i need help with this math problem

[iamsoandso]

Not necessarily. In some languages, a line above can indicate that they are to be numbers. We have no evidence that this copyist was not following that tradition. Remember, he was copying, it did not have to be his tradition, so the use of the line need not be consistent with nomina sacra use elsewhere. If this is the case that it is a word, then one copy or the other is a deliberate alteration for theological reasons. Either, 666 is a theological variant, or this "word" is. It now becomes a question of which to accept. My Abraham story argues for the 666, the date argues for the word. How does the word "arithmos" in the passage apply if this is not a number?

,,,,now you yourself said in another post,,,"the Catholics burned the Alexandrian libraries",,,look for the origin of the papyrus 115,,,,it was found in the "dump" on the outskirts of town,,,"no-one burns their own bible,,,someone else piled them up and burned them,,,there were scrolls written in Hebrew,Aramaic,Greek,found in this dump,both old and new testament.,,,,,,,,now to the dead sea scrolls who would put into caves scrolls and seal them off,,if they thought they would not return?,,they did not though we know "becouse we found them",,if not they would have told their children where they were and years later they would have retrieved them,,,so they put them their to preserve the word of god,,,but they did not survive the Romans siege of ad70,,,that is someone was going town by town slaying and burning books,,,,,,,first in the dead sea(they hid them in caves),,,,,and then in Egypt(they piled them up in the dump and burned them),,,,,,,,,to keep you from seeing something written in these old copies,,,,,,,,"the line above the letters",,,,,,,,

 

[Bookends]

in the "math problem",the thing we are told to count is the beast. the "answer then we found",,is the (number/answer) the answer is then given to us (but it is written in,"Greek nomina sacra),there are many different text in different museums that render the "nomina sacra",,differently some say that it states the number as 666,some manuscripts state 615 or 616,(this is because it is assumed that we are being given a number) i.e.x=600,stigma-6,ect. in "papyrus 115" (you will need to find it on the www to see) you will notice there are three words with a line above it. which is only used in "nomina sacra",so the three words you see in papyrus 115 are not (numbers),,they are the abbreviations of words. it would help if one of you posted it on the form for me (i am computer illiterate) as most of you have noticed "punctuations" and am trying my best to not use to many "commas". you will notice there are at least three words abbreviated in the manuscript. which is why i called the post "i need help with this math problem". the angel tells us to count the number of the beast (how many beast their are). not to take the Greek letters and use the number equivalent's. if you search their is another set of manuscripts that denotes these verses the same "nomina sacra".It was an error in translation to ever translate these verses to numbers i.e. 666,615 ect.

Where we asked to count the number of the beast, 21 st century Christians? Or the 1st century Christians told they could know who this beast is by this number?

The 1st century Christians read this prophecy and they were told they could know who this beast was. Well, how could they know who the beast was if this beast pertains to our century or later? and why would it matter? They would have been in total confusion, but know, they knew exactly how to know who this beast was by applying the numerology to the Greek letter system. Thus we have:

Nero Caesar fits the gematria code number "666." Using this code, his name would be rendered as "NRWN QSR." (NRWN QSR). The number values are:

N = 50
R = 200
W = 6
N = 50
Q = 100
S = 60
R = 200​

which, when added together, equals 666. The fact that Nero fits the description of the "beast" is well documented. (from: http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/beast.html)



Regarding Rev. 17:10 "There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time." We have Flavius Josephus clearly points out that (1)Julius Caesar was the first emperor of Rome, followed by (2)Augustus; (3)Tiberius; (4)Caius (Caligula); (5)Claudius; and the sixth emperor was…(6)Nero (Antiquities, books 18 and 19), who assumed imperial power upon the death of the fifth emperor, Claudius, in October, A.D. 54. The matter is confirmed just a little later in the writings of Roman historians: Suetonius (Lives of the Twelve Caesars and Dio Cassius, Roman History 5). Nero reigned from 54AD to June of 68AD. John informs us that the seventh king was "not yet come." That would be (7)Galba, who assumed power upon Nero's death in June, A.D. 68. But he was only to continue a "short space." As a matter of historical fact, his reign lasted but six months until January 15, A.D. 69. (The Mark Of The Beast)

 

[kenisyes]

6 = flesh/man
me in the place of god
me in the place of flesh
me in the place of spirit

"Me, Me, Me!"

Always been one of the meanings, and part of why I think 666 was the original.

 

[iamsoandso]

i must sleep now it is 6am my time ,,,,"i am in the midst of loving you",,,,sweet dreams,,,,,,,,,

 

[kenisyes]

,,,,now you yourself said in another post,,,"the Catholics burned the Alexandrian libraries",,,look for the origin of the papyrus 115,,,,it was found in the "dump" on the outskirts of town,,,"no-one burns their own bible,,,someone else piled them up and burned them,,,there were scrolls written in Hebrew,Aramaic,Greek,found in this dump,both old and new testament.,,,,,,,,now to the dead sea scrolls who would put into caves scrolls and seal them off,,if they thought they would not return?,,they did not though we know "becouse we found them",,if not they would have told their children where they were and years later they would have retrieved them,,,so they put them their to preserve the word of god,,,but they did not survive the Romans siege of ad70,,,that is someone was going town by town slaying and burning books,,,,,,,first in the dead sea(they hid them in caves),,,,,and then in Egypt(they piled them up in the dump and burned them),,,,,,,,,to keep you from seeing something written in these old copies,,,,,,,,"the line above the letters",,,,,,,,

The Catholics burned what was left in 391, I think it was. Other people took a turn at other times. There were a lot of such people. In the Dead Sea case, the regular Jews or the Romans are a good candidate. To prove that it was the line above the letters that caused the burning would require a lot of other evidence about that line. They could have been in one of the churches pronounced heretical by the Catholics and torched by their armies. There were lots of gnostics in Egypt. They could have been burned way later by Moslems; there's just too many different possibilities for who burned what. Can you find any other source that mentions the word, or the 616 (either way), so we know what kind of society to link it to? Without some tradition to link it to, copying error is still the most likely option (although by no means proven). I know of no related matter in the Nag Hammadi library (Egyptian gnostic).

Related item: Eusebius says that Revelation was the last book added to the NT canon. Even in 300 AD, not all churches agreed it was inspired.

 

[WolfInOxHide]

Always been one of the meanings, and part of why I think 666 was the original.

I think it's very purpose is to show us how many graven images we can assign to it.
Ergo: "Here is wisdom, let him who has understanding..."
How many of us count ourselves wise from the standard of John at least, but most likely Christ? heheh.
But we all come up with something.
Yet whatever it means, it's something based on a special wisdom, it's gotta be a conclusion that a high school drop out can grasp, because I don't think God only reveals to people like Einstein.
( though E does equal mc square as far as I know )

 

[Laodicea]

Revelation 13:18 KJV
(18) Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[kenisyes]

,,,,now you yourself said in another post,,,"the Catholics burned the Alexandrian libraries",,,look for the origin of the papyrus 115,,,,it was found in the "dump" on the outskirts of town,,,"no-one burns their own bible,,,someone else piled them up and burned them,,,there were scrolls written in Hebrew,Aramaic,Greek,found in this dump,both old and new testament.,,,,,,,,now to the dead sea scrolls who would put into caves scrolls and seal them off,,if they thought they would not return?,,they did not though we know "becouse we found them",,if not they would have told their children where they were and years later they would have retrieved them,,,so they put them their to preserve the word of god,,,but they did not survive the Romans siege of ad70,,,that is someone was going town by town slaying and burning books,,,,,,,first in the dead sea(they hid them in caves),,,,,and then in Egypt(they piled them up in the dump and burned them),,,,,,,,,to keep you from seeing something written in these old copies,,,,,,,,"the line above the letters",,,,,,,,

Last night, I had another thought. I'll be busy most of today so I'll post now. If this a word or an abbreviation, you must account for two things:
1. The word "arithmos" in the verse requires there to be a "computation". If there is no number in the verse, you must explain what that word means in such a contect.
2. If this is a word, or an abbreviation, how do you explain the stigma (actually called digamma at the time)? This letter had not been used to write words in Greek for nearly 800 years. What word could it possibly refer to?

 

[NodMyHeadLikeYeah]

 

[iamsoandso]

I think it's very purpose is to show us how many graven images we can assign to it.
Ergo: "Here is wisdom, let him who has understanding..."
How many of us count ourselves wise from the standard of John at least, but most likely Christ? heheh.
But we all come up with something.
Yet whatever it means, it's something based on a special wisdom, it's gotta be a conclusion that a high school drop out can grasp, because I don't think God only reveals to people like Einstein.
( though E does equal mc square as far as I know )

i agree isn't probably something complicated that is from when it was written all the way till the Americas were discovered 90% of the people couldn't read,write or do math or if so just basic like "kinder-gardeners",,in 1840 the literacy rate of the u.s. was 11% then it dropped during the civil war.about 1870 it rose then fell again in the depression.the bible wasn't printed till the 15-1600's depending on which bible. so from about 1940 to 2012 (were the only generation to be able to have it and read it),so it's got to be something simple or 99% of mankind took it by accident.

 

[doulos]

Do a yahooo search for quran666 you might be suprised by those who openly claim the number and who they say the man is that 666 represents.

 

[iamsoandso]

dont comb it,in 21 days shell hatch some "new ideas",,,lol,

 

[iamsoandso]

Do a yahooo search for quran666 you might be suprised by those who openly claim the number and who they say the man is that 666 represents.

ye Ive read some on it before,(ive seen it posted on cc before so searched),there's the mark of god,or the mark of the beast(no neutral ground) but there are many religions who dont believe in Christ. they "worship the image of the beast",,or they "worship god",the bible list multiple ways they(the ones with the mark) receive it. (1) they have the mark,"right hand or forehead" (2)they have the name(3)they have the number of his name see rev.13;17. the ones who have these,worship "a kingdom that was wounded to death",then they were tricked (deceived by the two horned beast) into worshiping one of the heads(kingdoms),that reemerged.(i am not defending them,but the Muslims do not do this).

 

[iamsoandso]

Last night, I had another thought. I'll be busy most of today so I'll post now. If this a word or an abbreviation, you must account for two things:
1. The word "arithmos" in the verse requires there to be a "computation". If there is no number in the verse, you must explain what that word means in such a contect.
2. If this is a word, or an abbreviation, how do you explain the stigma (actually called digamma at the time)? This letter had not been used to write words in Greek for nearly 800 years. What word could it possibly refer to?

well,maybe not "i agree with you it should be so",,but there is that it was not in the works of Irenaeus,ah5;30 before and after he spoke on this very point.he born somewhere around 125ad and died around 202ad, reasoned ''Moses was 600 years old,the idol required to the three to bow down to was 60 cubits(book of Daniel),and 6" so he saw it and he stated as to be reckoned by Greek numbers,which is what he later in the writing said,he then argues that they change "iota" by 50,five decades,which then you see he is addressing the fact they(church in about 170) were not using "math"=666" but rather something else "616",(notice he is pointing out the dropped,arithmos),,he was saying "no,i think you do it this way not that way",,read it real careful he goes on to explain that they should not add nor remove or else if they do they would "be deceived,and then the punishment would fall upon them because they could not calculate it",,,so which explains a lot about papyrus 115 they were saying "they are abbreviations" and putting lines above it,,he was saying no,no their not i think it is math,,so then about hundred years later the church at oxyrynchus made the decision,, and put their copy in a basket and set it in the dump outside town(here is the books he said were incorrect,here are the book they found in the dump)they did what he said,but was he right?,john wrote this at pat-mos(to the 7 churches),,Christ told him at the cross(behold thy mother),,her house they say is in Ephesus,but she is buried at Jerusalem ,,,"peter,bishop of Alexandria,b?died 311ce said in his writings,the autograph of revelations is at Ephesus",,,so the book went from pat-mos,was addressed to all 7 churches,and as it was being copied and passed out to the 7 churches(not from another language,the same Greek),,,they begged to differ,,,do lines go above this?,,,or is it "arithmos",,,,,,now your narrowed down to two paths,,,,,

 

[iamsoandso]

notice irenaeus,was too,he suggested to them that they not "calculate an answer",,,or else it binds them,,,,,,,,"he was narrowed down to two paths",,,,and he saw they were too,,,,,,

 

[iamsoandso]

well,maybe not "i agree with you it should be so",,but there is that it was not in the works of Irenaeus,ah5;30 before and after he spoke on this very point.he born somewhere around 125ad and died around 202ad, reasoned ''Moses was 600 years old,the idol required to the three to bow down to was 60 cubits(book of Daniel),and 6" so he saw it and he stated as to be reckoned by Greek numbers,which is what he later in the writing said,he then argues that they change "iota" by 50,five decades,which then you see he is addressing the fact they(church in about 170) were not using "math"=666" but rather something else "616",(notice he is pointing out the dropped,arithmos),,he was saying "no,i think you do it this way not that way",,read it real careful he goes on to explain that they should not add nor remove or else if they do they would "be deceived,and then the punishment would fall upon them because they could not calculate it",,,so which explains a lot about papyrus 115 they were saying "they are abbreviations" and putting lines above it,,he was saying no,no their not i think it is math,,so then about hundred years later the church at oxyrynchus made the decision,, and put their copy in a basket and set it in the dump outside town(here is the books he said were incorrect,here are the book they found in the dump)they did what he said,but was he right?,john wrote this at pat-mos(to the 7 churches),,Christ told him at the cross(behold thy mother),,her house they say is in Ephesus,but she is buried at Jerusalem ,,,"peter,bishop of Alexandria,b?died 311ce said in his writings,the autograph of revelations is at Ephesus",,,so the book went from pat-mos,was addressed to all 7 churches,and as it was being copied and passed out to the 7 churches(not from another language,the same Greek),,,they begged to differ,,,do lines go above this?,,,or is it "arithmos",,,,,,now your narrowed down to two paths,,,,,

,,,,,,i said moses,,,Irenaeus said "noah",,,,,,,,,it wont let me edit it,,,noah was 600 years old,,,,,,

 

[iamsoandso]

he said in another a.h.(irenaeus),,,,,,,,,,you change it to "iota",,,for it is the first letter on his name,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[kenisyes]

Iraneus ah5:30 agrees with my interpretation almost verbatim, that it was a copyists error. He condemns only those who should know better. Here is the quote:
I do not know how it is that some have erred following the ordinary mode of speech, and have vitiated the middle number in the name, deducting the amount of fifty from it, so that instead of six decads they will have it that there is but one. [I am inclined to think that this occurred through the fault of the copyists, as is wont to happen, since numbers also are expressed by letters; so that the Greek letter which expresses the number sixty was easily expanded into the letter Iota of the Greeks.]4701 Others then received this reading 559 without examination; some in their simplicity, and upon their own responsibility, making use of this number expressing one decad; while some, in their inexperience, have ventured to seek out a name which should contain the erroneous and spurious number. Now, as regards those who have done this in simplicity, and without evil intent, we are at liberty to assume that pardon will be granted them by God. But as for those who, for the sake of vainglory, lay it down for certain that names containing the spurious number are to be accepted, and affirm that this name, hit upon by themselves, is that of him who is to come; such persons shall not come forth without loss, because they have led into error both themselves and those who confided in them. Now, in the first place, it is loss to wander from the truth, and to imagine that as being the case which is not; then again, as there shall be no light punishment [inflicted] upon him who either adds or subtracts anything from the Scripture,4702 under that such a person must necessarily fall. Moreover, another danger, by no means trifling, shall overtake those who falsely presume that they know the name of Antichrist. For if these men assume one [number], when this [Antichrist] shall come having another, they will be easily led away by him, as supposing him not to be the expected one, who must be guarded against.

You do not give the source on the second point. The word "arithmos" is valid in this case, because the number 50 is provided, as well as 60. Arithmos means "calculate". My point is, if there is number in the verse, you cannot use arithmos. If the number is 616, you can also use arithmos. I mentioned this only as a problem if the letters chi- iota - digamma are not a number. Iraenaeus is referring to what will happen if you have the wrong number to calculate with.

Ephesus/Patmos: Mary was at least 13 when Jesus was born. She would thus have been 43 in 27 AD (dates by lunar observations of date of Passover by computer). 76 in 60 AD. When was John exiled; I'm sure it was after 60 AD? More than enough time to get to Patmos after spending time with her in Ephesus and have some visions. The Catholics say she wasn't buried at all, but is now in heaven bodily; surely, this proves there is no general agreement on where she was buried. Peter of Alexandria is probably just wrong.

 

[iamsoandso]

you see they filled in the vowels,they took the line from above it,,,,,,,,that is they drew lines all above it,,

 

[iamsoandso]

Iraneus ah5:30 agrees with my interpretation almost verbatim, that it was a copyists error. He condemns only those who should know better. Here is the quote:
I do not know how it is that some have erred following the ordinary mode of speech, and have vitiated the middle number in the name, deducting the amount of fifty from it, so that instead of six decads they will have it that there is but one. [I am inclined to think that this occurred through the fault of the copyists, as is wont to happen, since numbers also are expressed by letters; so that the Greek letter which expresses the number sixty was easily expanded into the letter Iota of the Greeks.]4701 Others then received this reading 559 without examination; some in their simplicity, and upon their own responsibility, making use of this number expressing one decad; while some, in their inexperience, have ventured to seek out a name which should contain the erroneous and spurious number. Now, as regards those who have done this in simplicity, and without evil intent, we are at liberty to assume that pardon will be granted them by God. But as for those who, for the sake of vainglory, lay it down for certain that names containing the spurious number are to be accepted, and affirm that this name, hit upon by themselves, is that of him who is to come; such persons shall not come forth without loss, because they have led into error both themselves and those who confided in them. Now, in the first place, it is loss to wander from the truth, and to imagine that as being the case which is not; then again, as there shall be no light punishment [inflicted] upon him who either adds or subtracts anything from the Scripture,4702 under that such a person must necessarily fall. Moreover, another danger, by no means trifling, shall overtake those who falsely presume that they know the name of Antichrist. For if these men assume one [number], when this [Antichrist] shall come having another, they will be easily led away by him, as supposing him not to be the expected one, who must be guarded against.

You do not give the source on the second point. The word "arithmos" is valid in this case, because the number 50 is provided, as well as 60. Arithmos means "calculate". My point is, if there is number in the verse, you cannot use arithmos. If the number is 616, you can also use arithmos. I mentioned this only as a problem if the letters chi- iota - digamma are not a number. Iraenaeus is referring to what will happen if you have the wrong number to calculate with.

Ephesus/Patmos: Mary was at least 13 when Jesus was born. She would thus have been 43 in 27 AD (dates by lunar observations of date of Passover by computer). 76 in 60 AD. When was John exiled; I'm sure it was after 60 AD? More than enough time to get to Patmos after spending time with her in Ephesus and have some visions. The Catholics say she wasn't buried at all, but is now in heaven bodily; surely, this proves there is no general agreement on where she was buried. Peter of Alexandria is probably just wrong.

,,,,,,,your smarter than the average bear,,,and mary,,,she is part of the puzzel,,,it tells you wjere john was,,,,,,,,,,,,