Will anyone miss Twinkies?
- Thread starter celestemekent
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A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
No celestemekent, I never said what you are wrongly attributing to me. The reason I've had you on ignore is because you appear to be unable to have a discussion with me without consistently accusing me of saying whatever you want me to be saying and that is simply an unacceptable dysfunctional communication style.
This is a classic example. Instead of asking, "ageofknowledge" are you saying that all government spending is bad? And, how does social security fit into what you said?" and allowing me to answer: you just accuse me of whatever you want to wrongly attribute to me as a matter of course.
It's NOT ok and so you're going back on ignore until the day that you finally learn that wrongly projecting what's in your head on what other people say is NOT acceptable.
Learn to communicate properly. Rule #1: It's always best to ask questions to discover another's position than to interject your own negative ones onto what they are saying.
*ignore on*
This is a classic example. Instead of asking, "ageofknowledge" are you saying that all government spending is bad? And, how does social security fit into what you said?" and allowing me to answer: you just accuse me of whatever you want to wrongly attribute to me as a matter of course.
It's NOT ok and so you're going back on ignore until the day that you finally learn that wrongly projecting what's in your head on what other people say is NOT acceptable.
Learn to communicate properly. Rule #1: It's always best to ask questions to discover another's position than to interject your own negative ones onto what they are saying.
*ignore on*
I actually buy none of those companies products...and besides 18000 out of over 3 million? i cant possibly be expected to care about every individual problem in this nation
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
Aren't you missing the point? I just said that this is not an isolated case but rather an example of what many companies that haven't offshored U.S. jobs overseas are in danger of and that it is a result of serious systemic problems that if left unresolved will affect most Americans.
you wont find any twinkies in the stores, people snapped them up up and are getting huge profits from them online, they wont go anywhere, as popular as they are the rights to make them will be sold to someone else and they will be back. It's not rocket science to make them.
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
See this yet? Someone is selling a box of twinkies produced on the last day of operations at Hostess Brands, Inc. on Ebay for $21,000,000.00... lol. They are stating they will give the money to help out Hurricane Sandy victims.
RARE Hostess Twinkies BB Date Nov 15 Last Day of Ops 95 Donation to Sandy | eBay
Personally, I believe that anyone with $21 million to donate would not give it to this individual so they might donate it but would rather personally ensure the money went to the aforementioned cause. Why, in my opinion, you'd have to be a FOOL to give $21 million to someone else and trust them to donate what you could simply donate yourself unless THAT box of twinkies was really worth ALL THAT to you... lol.
RARE Hostess Twinkies BB Date Nov 15 Last Day of Ops 95 Donation to Sandy | eBay
Personally, I believe that anyone with $21 million to donate would not give it to this individual so they might donate it but would rather personally ensure the money went to the aforementioned cause. Why, in my opinion, you'd have to be a FOOL to give $21 million to someone else and trust them to donate what you could simply donate yourself unless THAT box of twinkies was really worth ALL THAT to you... lol.
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
Well, that one seller notwithstanding, it looks like a 10 count box of twinkies is going for about $20.00 on Ebay right now and that is a big markup to what they were going for last week. It will most likely continue to go up as they become scarcer.
And, I agree with you on your other point as well. Hostess Brands, Inc. may be dead but the Twinkie will live on. Long live the Twinkie!
And, I agree with you on your other point as well. Hostess Brands, Inc. may be dead but the Twinkie will live on. Long live the Twinkie!
At the bankruptcy court it is very unclear whether or not the judge will discharge the debt. There is plenty of evidence of malfeasance. A Vulture capital group took over the company basically doubled the company's debt load (from $470 million to over $1billion). They gave their management group a "bonus" of $1.5 million too. The management group took the employee's retirement funds and since they were government guaranteed funds the citizens of the US may have to fork over the money. Although it was not Bain Capitol they do essentially the same things to companies. There is no legitimate reason for Hostess to have gone under even if they had offered the union the higher wages. While the management group hides behind the loincloth that it was all "legal" it is still very wrong. Hopefully the bankruptcy judge will slam this one back in the face of Hostess management and tell them to go back and do it all over again right. That judge can reverse the bonuses, can reverse the pay raises for management and force them to negotiate with the union.
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
You are absolutely right in that our current situation is going to run us off the cliff. It'll bring on what you call the great depression, I think most here would take it farther and call it the great tribulation, altho I prefer the term the great judgment. And it's not just us, the whole dang world is built upon a house of cards just waiting to collapse. Tic toc tic toc.
But if the situation WERE solvable, what you propose wouldn't fix it. Government used to grow in step with society. What happened was society stopped growing, and is shrinking back. It went from one for all and all for one to every man for himself. When I grew up commercials would say 'Cheetos - bring enough to share'. Now it's 'Cheetos - get your own freakin bag'. And it's that division of humanity that has allowed robber barons to re-emerge and strangle society. For 2010, 93% of all new wealth went to the top 1%. When the first guy up to the buffet takes 93% of what's being served, that is what strangles the country.
I made a factoid post earlier, I've since done some more study and updated the info.
Hostess pay raises approved in late July 2012:
Brian Driscoll, CEO, around $750,000 to $2,550,000. +1.8 million 340%
Gary Wandschneider; EVP $500,000 to $900,000. +.4 million 80%
John Stewart, EVP, $400,000 to $700,000. +.3 million 75%
David Loeseq EVP, $375,000 to $656,256. +281,000 75%
Kent Magill, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256. +281,000 75%
Richard Seban, EVP $375,000 to $656,256. +281,000 75%
lohn Akeson, SVP, $300,000 to $480,000. +180,000 60%
Steven Birgfeld, SVP $240,000 to $360,000. +120,000 50%
Martha Ross, SVP $240,000 to $360,000. +120,000 50%
Rob Kissiclq SVP $182,000 to $273,008. +91,000 50%
Raises total $4,553,000 Executive compensation increased from $3,737,000 to $7,231,000, an increase of 97%.
*
The average yearly cost per employee (18,500) with benefits is $50,000.
Employee compensation = $925,000,000
Hostess is looking for an 8% pay cut, and to cease contributions to
pensions and health care.
50,000 Old compensation level, average employee
6,000 12% cut in health care (estimate)
5,000 10% cut in retirement (estimate)
3,120 8% cut in pay
35,880 30% cut in pay and benefits
3120 x 18,500 = $57,720,000 Pay cut
6000 x 18,500 = $111,000,000 Health care cut
5000 x 18,500 = $92,500,000 Pension cut
Total concessions sought: = $261,220,000
In addition, Hostess was seeking to load the employee groups with $100 million in company debt.
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And the most important figure of all, Hostess’ annual sales top $2 billion.
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Hostess entered bankruptcy in 2004. Employees gave away hundreds of millions of dollars in wage and benefit concessions, on management’s promise that the savings would be reinvested into modernizing the company and it’s distribution network. This reinvestment never happened. Since the 2004 bankruptcy, Hostess has been under the control of 6 different CEO’s, none of which had any experience in the baking field. Instead, these CEOs were well known Wall Street venture capitalists and liquidators.
Hostess management has been caught in several lies, including threatening to close plants ‘because of the strike’ that were already slated for closure before the strike.They also terminated pension contributions months before the strike, in direct violation of a court order. Today (11/29/12), the bankruptcy court ruled that the company must re-enter negotiations because they bypassed the legally required step of arbitration, moving instead directly to liquidation.
It is obvious to all who investigate (including several business oriented media outlets – try Forbes to start) that since the emergence from the 2004 bankruptcy, the company has been managed as a cash cow for a management team who’s intent all along was to drive the company into debt and liquidation. The strike is merely a convenient excuse to lay the blame for failure on the workers, while management and Wall Street investors walk away with millions.
To modify a saying of mine, “rich people don’t create profits, consumers do’.
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
You don't know what I propose RickyZ. You've never asked me and I've never told you. It seems premature of you to state that someone else's proposals cannot work without ever hearing them.
I can appreciate that you have your own beliefs; however, if one of them is that the U.S. economy can not be fixed then I certainly do disagree with you.
The U.S. economy can be fixed. And, I assert that I am qualified and know how to fix it. Whether it is fixed or not remains to be seen.
I can appreciate that you have your own beliefs; however, if one of them is that the U.S. economy can not be fixed then I certainly do disagree with you.
The U.S. economy can be fixed. And, I assert that I am qualified and know how to fix it. Whether it is fixed or not remains to be seen.
Very good and very revealing. I would like to add that any bailout of a company that produces a product like this one would never be encouraged or condoned when Michelle Obama is making her drive against obesity and all those foods that contribute to that epidemic. I guess if this company was not responsible for their success then perhaps they should not be responsible for their own bankruptcy, if you know what I mean.
I don't believe government should be involved in the bailout business but they certainly have their own agenda under this administration and is it has it favorites. Voted this man back into office does reveal the mindset of so many in this country being driven by fear and insecurity instead of hope and optimism and how much it really depends on government for all of its welfare needs. For us to ever get back to being a self indigenous republic of people that stops looking for handouts, it is going to take a cataclysmic event that reduces us to nothing and makes us see as a people the error of our way. Can that happen? I hope so, but in the mean time we don't have to contribute by succumbing to that mentality of entitlements and taking the path of wanting something for nothing.
I think ricky is sort of right our economy is the way it is because people nowadays only think about themselves and their profits. Its hard to change the economy if thats how our culture is and if the people not like that are brainwashed by the media and political groups to support that 1%
lol the current president won because people want welfare handouts & entitlements? I thought it was because the other guy flipped flopped and had horrible foreign & domestic policies. lol
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
Good points Red. I agree with you that the bulk of the risk should have been pushed back onto present owners and investors rather than future U.S. taxpayers. Iceland's financial and banking crash was far greater in proportion to the size of their economy and they chose that path, rather than bailouts, and their economy has already recovered and started to soar. Iceland also implemented real accountability as a safeguard against what happened repeating and put the executives responsible in prison.
BUT, that aside, the primary reason our politicians stood aside while Hostess Brands, Inc. died is because they just didn't have a dog in this race. Hostess Brands wasn't putting money into their pockets like the financial and auto sectors do. Unless you pay our politicians money, they won't work for you.
BUT, that aside, the primary reason our politicians stood aside while Hostess Brands, Inc. died is because they just didn't have a dog in this race. Hostess Brands wasn't putting money into their pockets like the financial and auto sectors do. Unless you pay our politicians money, they won't work for you.
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
Global firms are already lining up to buy the intellectual property of Hostess Brands, Inc.. The well known brand names will reemerge owned by other companies (either domestic or foreign), as others in this thread have said, but the jobs themselves will be offshored. China or Mexico are the most likely destinations for those jobs.
Other struggling U.S. companies that use domestic labor are taking notice. Will there be a domino effect? Not in the sense of bankruptcy but in the sense of offshoring more U.S. jobs to prevent bankruptcy.
The Twinkie: Will it return as a Mexican expat? - CSMonitor.com
Other struggling U.S. companies that use domestic labor are taking notice. Will there be a domino effect? Not in the sense of bankruptcy but in the sense of offshoring more U.S. jobs to prevent bankruptcy.
The Twinkie: Will it return as a Mexican expat? - CSMonitor.com
You're right, I haven't heard all your ideas. But what you did say sounded exactly like my older brother's words, so I extrapolated that you would most likely continue down that same path. Mea culpa with the premature.
Yes, it's called the great judgment.
It's not just one or two countries teetering, it's the whole world. And countries are so intertwined nowadays that when the first one falls it's going to run like dominoes across the globe. And that's what's prophesied, the world economies are going to have to fail en mass to clear the way for a global system.
If it were just us, or just Eurpoe, or just anyone on their own it would be fixable. At this point, well, I tell my brother my garage full of beans is going to be worth more than his safe full of gold very soon now.