6 Questions for Jehovah's Witnesses

[TJ12]

You know that your argument is a dead-end.

And yet it is you, Bowman, that cannot bring yourself to answer my one, simple question that I've asked eight times now. This demonstrates overwhelmingly that you don't really care about what the text says. It's all about what you want it to say, and ridiculing others along the way.

So post your pictures, make your insults, ignore evidence to the contrary; at the end of the day, it's your actions that show you for what you are.

 

[Bowman]

And yet it is you, Bowman, that cannot bring yourself to answer my one, simple question that I've asked eight times now. This demonstrates overwhelmingly that you don't really care about what the text says. It's all about what you want it to say, and ridiculing others along the way.

So post your pictures, make your insults, ignore evidence to the contrary; at the end of the day, it's your actions that show you for what you are.

If you were confident in your position, then you should be able to answer your own questions.

 

[TJ12]

If you were confident in your position, then you should be able to answer your own questions.

No Bowman, by your refusal to answer a simple and obvious question, it shows that you don't have the courage to answer honestly when you know that the answer is contrary to your position. You made a challenge and I answered it; and instead of acknowledging the point, you distract, ridicule and hide from it.

 

[Bowman]

No Bowman, by your refusal to answer a simple and obvious question, it shows that you don't have the courage to answer honestly when you know that the answer is contrary to your position. You made a challenge and I answered it; and instead of acknowledging the point, you distract, ridicule and hide from it.

So...you go with your answer ....and then what?


Show us how it supposedly thwarts the Trinity...

 

[Bowman]

Now you must go off and think really, really, really hard as to how you want your story to end.

 

[TJ12]

As I said Bowman, you lack the courage to answer, and to answer truthfully.

 

[Bowman]

As I said Bowman, you lack the courage to answer, and to answer truthfully.

You have the floor.....show us how your position supposedly thwarts the Trinity.

 

[nkz0]

John 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. (KJV)
doesn't matter which denomination/group you belong to- don't you think its little silly to prove you or me is right quoting from scripture? who knows oneday God will be confused by what you are saying and say i never knew you and where did you get that foolish idea?
Jesus did not come to this world to confuse anyone He came to seek and save that was lost
i was lost but am now found.
and oh yes! Jesus is Lord
Don't matter what you think

 

[Bowman]

Ugh huh...just what I thought....

 

[TJ12]

You have the floor.....show us how your position supposedly thwarts the Trinity.

Bowman, I have little interest in continuing; you've already demonstrated my point here perfectly. Most would have quit long before they got themselves into the situation you have, but this is the inevitable conclusion when you're reading your belief into scripture.

By holding on to your Trinity 'proof' text no matter what, you get yourself into the rather absurd situation where you either have to deny other parts of scripture or simply pretend that it doesn't exist. You chose to pretend that Genesis 48:16,19 doesn't exist, which is why you cannot answer my question.

As far as I'm concerned, until you find the honesty to answer it, we have nothing more to discuss.

 

[Bowman]

Bowman, I have little interest in continuing; you've already demonstrated my point here perfectly. Most would have quit long before they got themselves into the situation you have, but this is the inevitable conclusion when you're reading your belief into scripture.

By holding on to your Trinity 'proof' text no matter what, you get yourself into the rather absurd situation where you either have to deny other parts of scripture or simply pretend that it doesn't exist. You chose to pretend that Genesis 48:16,19 doesn't exist, which is why you cannot answer my question.

As far as I'm concerned, until you find the honesty to answer it, we have nothing more to discuss.

There you go again complaining that your questions are not being answered.

If you had any confidence in your position at all - then you should be able to answer your own questions.

We are still waiting for you to finish your story....besides stalling-out, what do you do now? How does your position somehow thwart the Trinity?

It doesn't.

Your story is over...

 

[GreenNnice]

Hello GreenNnice,


So instead of telling me what the Bible could say to prove that Jesus is not God, you turn it around and just repeat again what you think it's saying that proves Jesus is God. In other words, you're not going to answer my question at all.

Why is this such a difficult question? Does anyone here professing belief in Jesus as God have an straight answer?



I explained the messianic text, Proverbs 8:22-31, somewhat to you above.

I did answer your question, TJ, sorry, but it is you who by virtue of your answer to me (not the likes of those like bowmaninHissight) that display an inability to understand why falsfying Jesus is not God is not Truth. Jesus is God, cfultz said it well , 'incarnate Word,' and, hopesprung said argument very well for Jesus is not God falsifiability conclusion. Scripture states that faith is based on believing in what is not seen. None have seen God, but does this mean none have seen Jesus? Of course not.

And, to altertwoego, can someone die like Jesus died? Eternal as Jesus was, Yes, as, by dying the Truth showed the world the way Home, through Him Jesus had to die to show the way unto eternal life. John 3:16 is such a simple verse to believe. 'Son' is capitalized, this is no ordinary son , this is a son who is really God.

Does the bible need to say 'Jesus is God,' or, TJ, you will not see Jesus as having been God manifested in the flesh. The Holy Spirit is God's free gift to those, through faith, believe in His grace. What is so hard to believe here? Cryptic? To those who don't believe, Yes, parables tell this Truth.
To those who believe though, the message of the Word is styptic, the bleeding stipsz the heart wondering about Christ is who He says He is, stops. It IS known, God IS the Son Is the Holy Spirit, all three Agents, who act on behalf of man, condemning those not in Him, but embracing those who have accepted His Spirit of grace shown us through the death of His Son on a cross, who ONLY the man died (gave His Spirit unto God, the MAN in Jesús was crucified), not the Spirit in the man, for that was /is/will always be God.

There you go again complaining that your questions are not being answered.

If you had any confidence in your position at all - then you should be able to answer your own questions.

We are still waiting for you to finish your story....besides stalling-out, what do you do now? How does your position somehow thwart the Trinity?

It doesn't.

Your story is over...

Your story is over, TJ, God blessedly you, believe what you want, but Jesús is God is Holy Spirit.
Scripture is clear. God is God is God and the overwhelming Truth is everywhere in the Word.

 

[Jordache]

You cannot quote scripture with a JW. Their bible is altered and they believe any other bible is an incorrect translation. You have to "fight" them with their own scripture, if possible.
I've had my fair share of conversations with JW and apologetics will not win you average JW. The power of God speaking to them personally will win them. My suggestion: pray for them and don't be afraid to pray in the name of Jehovah. I promise God is not offended if you pray in a lesser common name. When speaking with most people of differing opinions, even Christians with different standings, we should always look for common ground. We also believe Jesus was a great prophet. We believe he was much more, but we can agree that he was also a great prophet. We can agree that there is one true God. We can agree that true good works come from knowing an desiring to honor God. We can agree that there is a heaven. We can agree that one name for God is Jehovah.

 

[hopesprings]

Hi hopesprings,


But didn't you just contradict yourself? The man was asking what he must do to have life, to be saved. You say that Jesus knew the man didn't accept him as God, but then that he also knew "the one thing the young man was holding back." Thus, either Jesus didn't think it was at all important for the man to believe that he was God to receive life or he was, as I argue, telling the man to leave such titles, not for himself, but for God alone. Which is it?[/size][/font][/color]


But again, even as you agree, Jesus says to the man, "One thing is missing about you." It wasn't his lack of faith in recognizing who Jesus was.


Thanks hopesprings

Hi TJ,

The ‘one thing’ that the man lacked was complete commitment to God. The love he had for his wealth simply displayed the severe condition of his heart. Jesus said that if we are not willing to give up all to follow him, then we are not worthy of him. Our inability to do this demonstrates the condition of our heart – just like with the young man. Just because someone believes that Jesus is God doesn’t mean that you suddenly know all there is to know about God. God is deeper then that. Meeting Jesus face to face doesn’t mean that you ‘know’ Him. Jesus telling someone ‘Hey, I’m God’ doesn’t mean that you ‘know’ Him. The young man lacked a heart that was in submission to God in ALL things. There is no contradiction. Perhaps you didn’t read John 14:21-23: “Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them. Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, ‘But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not the world?’ Jesus replied, ‘Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.”

If you really believe that Jesus was simply telling the man to leave such titles (“good”) for God alone then please supply a sufficient explanation as to why Jesus can call himself “good” after rebuking someone else for calling him good?

I haven’t read your posts yet for Prov. 8 and I will try to get to them shortly…what can I say…sometimes life gets busy. I would really appreciate an answer to my question about Phil. 2 and how Jesus can exist in God’s form and not be God. You have accused others of not giving straight answers, but I’ve noticed (when reading through this VERY long thread) that there are times when you do not supply straight answers either. Feed asked two really good questions that no one has sufficiently answered yet: 1) why did Thomas call Jesus ‘My Lord and My God’? 2) To what was Jesus referring to by the term ‘this temple’ in John 2:18-19? I have asked you to explain to me how Jesus can have God’s form and not be God…yet you are reluctant to do so, since the first answer you gave was a misuse of scripture. I only bring these up to show that Bowman is not the only one unwilling to supply straight answers.

hopesprings

 

[zone]

i don't wanna wade through the whole jesus is "a" god thing.

did they answers the 6 questions yet?
can i get a summary?

 

[GreenNnice]

My prayer is very simple for TJ and all other JW out there, that they can see that Jesus is God, that He walked the face of planet Earth, that He showed mankind the way Home, to His Home, which we ALL will one day go who believe in Him, who understand His way is perfect, who understand His walk on earth WAS perfect, He is sinlessness personified, He is God, He was MADE sinless by His Father to show us how we CAN become sinless, which is only by the BLOOD. The blood of Christ covers ALL our sins, past, present, future, our races are WON the moment we put our life in Him, forevermore.

Forevermore on Earth, we are His !
Forevermore in Heaven, certainly, yes, we are His, too

Don't want to be forever young, don't want to be forever your current age, and, don't want to be forever old, maybe, the Lord (like Hezekiah) puts years on your life for your earnest seeking Him, but want NONE of this mortality to last, want it to go, but EMBRACE it while it is before you. Simply, want to be forever His

Sorry, if I was a little touch on you but, the Lord leads, TJ, and, really, I haven't been that tough on you, just been looking aT YOUR POSTS and proofing their many contradictions against the Word, but to argue with divisiveness is fruitless and to go about warning you , at least, twice, that believing God did not come to earth to be sinless PERFECTION for us to see unto how can come unto (into) us righteousness as Him has been shown, in so many ways, as He has led me.

But, yes, Jordy, right, we are to be pure vessels, that God can work THROUGH, and I pray I have presented my thoughts thoroughly through Him to you, TJ, in Love, your story over, we are to REBUKE wrong stories, TJ

, I don't have all the answers either to your questions,proof texts, etc., no one does, faith must uphold our belief of what we cannot see, for in His perfect timing, we who are His are revealed and will revel in His glorious showings of Himself, through the Word, through our spirit, as we worship Him, in spirit and in Truth, for God is spirit, for God died as a man, but was raised, glorified, and, then, is at God's right hand sitting, waiting on God , who is power unto all for salvation through His Son, whom He made out of His OWN Spirit, and, whom He will make ours forever believes in Him,

 

[TJ12]

Hello hopesprings,

The ‘one thing’ that the man lacked was complete commitment to God.

Well yes, but you also said he didn't believe Jesus was God. It's awfully strange that Jesus would overlook 'mistake' this when the man is sincerely asking for correction.

If you really believe that Jesus was simply telling the man to leave such titles (“good”) for God alone then please supply a sufficient explanation as to why Jesus can call himself “good” after rebuking someone else for calling him good?

I've already answered this. Jesus was objecting to the title because it was the type of hyper-flattering titles commonly given to the religious leaders that didn't overstepped God's glory. In his humility, Jesus said that sort of thing should be for God alone. It's that simple.

I haven’t read your posts yet for Prov. 8 and I will try to get to them shortly…what can I say…sometimes life gets busy. I would really appreciate an answer to my question about Phil. 2 and how Jesus can exist in God’s form and not be God.

I've answered this as well. God's form is a spirit. Jesus is also said to be in the image of God. What you continue to miss is that even by comparing him to God, that in itself distinguishes Jesus from God.

Nevertheless, Paul's straightforward model in Christ is to reject selfish ambition. If Jesus was God himself, then it was in no way selfish of him to grasp at equality with God (nor does it make sense that he'd grasp at something he already has). The model breaks down.

You have accused others of not giving straight answers, but I’ve noticed (when reading through this VERY long thread) that there are times when you do not supply straight answers either.

Can you tell me who is described as becoming a "multitude" in LXX Genesis 48:19? I'm just interested to see if you have a problem with answering that.

Feed asked two really good questions that no one has sufficiently answered yet: 1) why did Thomas call Jesus ‘My Lord and My God’?

It was an exclamation (and has been explained).

2) To what was Jesus referring to by the term ‘this temple’ in John 2:18-19?

His body. Question back at you, how many times was the actual Temple in Jerusalem rebuilt in scripture?

 

[TJ12]

Hi GreenNnice,

But, yes, Jordy, right, we are to be pure vessels, that God can work THROUGH, and I pray I have presented my thoughts thoroughly through Him to you, TJ, in Love, your story over, we are to REBUKE wrong stories, TJ

, I don't have all the answers either to your questions,proof texts, etc., no one does

Well I appreciate the sentiments of your prayer, but scripture plainly says that there will be those who "are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge." (Romans 10:2) You're in a difficult position because your claim is that your beliefs are upon scripture alone, when really they rely upon creeds formulated centuries after the completion of the Bible, made by men that had infused worldly philosophical concepts with scripture.

You cannot show me plainly from the Bible that there are three persons in one God because scripture does not teach it. If he wanted to, couldn't Jesus have found the words to explain these things clearly, or do you really think he needed the elite theologians of the fourth and fifth century to explain the things he could not? Jesus said this clearly: "Father...this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." (John 17:1,3) I will believe this over the tradition of later centuries.

 

[TJ12]

did they answers the 6 questions yet?
can i get a summary?

Hi Zone,

They're answered here: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/51806-6-questions-jehovahs-witnesses.html#post823859

 

[TJ12]

Hello Jordache,

You cannot quote scripture with a JW. Their bible is altered and they believe any other bible is an incorrect translation. You have to "fight" them with their own scripture, if possible.

I've argued my points here all throughout using translations such as the ESV, NIV, KJV, etc. I have no problem using other Bibles. But it's worth noting this point from Dr. Jason BeDuhn (not one of Jehovah's Witnesses), who examined particular scriptures in nine translations (including the NWT) and came to this conclusion:

"The Jehovah's Witnesses, on the other hand, are more similar to the Protestants [than Catholics] in their view that the Bible alone must be the source of truth in its every detail. So you might expect translators from this sect to labor under the Protestant Burden. But they do not for the simple reason that the Jehovah's Witness movement was and is a more radical break with the dominant Christian tradition of the previous millennium than most kinds of Protestantism. This movement has, unlike the Protestant Reformation, really sought to re-invent Christianity from scratch. Whether you regard that as good or a bad thing, you can probably understand that it resulted in the Jehovah's Witnesses approaching the Bible with a kind of innocence, and building their system of belief and practice from the raw material of the Bible without predetermining what was to be found there. Some critics, of course, would say that the results of this process can be naive. But for Bible translation, at least, it has meant a fresh approach to the text, with far less presumption than that found in many of the Protestant translations.

"Since the Jehovah's Witnesses are well outside of the Christian mainstream, the impression among the general public, and among several important biblical scholars, is that the differences of the NW from other translations are due to the peculiar ideas and biases of the Witnesses. I have identified a handful of examples of bias in the NW, where in my opinion accuracy was impaired by the commitments of the translators. But the biases of the NW translators do not account for most of the differences of the NW from the other translations. Most of the differences are due to the greater accuracy of the NW as a literal, conservative translation of the original expressions of the New Testament writers." (Truth in Translation, pp. 164-5)