NAR, Cessationism, Darby, Scofield, Dispensationalism, Zionism and related theories

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1

1still_waters

Guest
#1
#1
I'm making this thread for those who would like to discuss cessationism, NAR, zionism, Darby, Scofield, Dispensationalism, and other theories associated with it.

Sometimes folks who like talking about this, kinda change the topic of threads not about it.

So for those desiring to go into detail on this stuff.....

I offer you this thread.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#2
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#2
1still_waters said:
I'm making this thread for those who would like to discuss cessationism, NAR, zionism, Darby, Scofield, Dispensationalism, and other theories associated with it.

Sometimes folks who like talking about this, kinda change the topic of threads not about it.

So for those desiring to go into detail on this stuff.....

I offer you this thread.
Click to expand...
never heard of any of it:confused::D
 
W

webchatter

Guest
#4
#4
what's NAR?
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#6
#6
So I was looking at a website that roasts on the NAR.
They were making light of a 1999 article in Charisma magazine that was foretelling of future terrorist attacks and a war against Islam by America.

Funny thing is, three years later, 911 happened and then began the war on terror.
Just being objective here.
Thoughts?
link-->Christian Fortune Tellers Never Get it Right, Either

A recent issue of Charisma magazine (April 1999) featured a full-page report that was nothing more than a “Christianized” version of what one might expect from the secular and godless supermarket tabloids. The Charisma article, entitled “Prophets Warn That United States Faces Threat of War, Islamic Terrorism,” reported on a January “distress call” from “modern-day prophets.” The band of 18 leaders, who met “behind closed doors,” included Wagner, Joyner and Paul Cain. According to the magazine, this oracle of impending judgment was further endorsed by others in the prophetic movement, including Bickle (of Kansas City Fellowship fame), revivalist Tommy Tenney, and Vineyard pastor James Ryle.
Click to expand...
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#7
#7
I spent almost 10 minutes looking all this up. So I will make a statement, and then everyone can disagree.

Nothing new has ever been started in the Body of Christ (including these movements in the OP, Christian TV, and this website), other than by the mechanism in I Cor. 12:28. Understood correctly, in each case, we have seen the action, in order, of apostle, prophet, teacher, works of power, etc. Most people do not recognize the operation when they see it. This is because many churches have found it easier to teach that these ministries are not operative. The teaching became so pervasive during the middle ages that the definitions were forgotten, but are slowly being rediscovered now (hence the movements). This means that our whole definition of ministry and fitness for ministry is flawed, cessationism is simply factually untrue, dispensationalism is our imagination (other the second coming and those specific related events, which includes the return of the Jews to Israel, God has treated us the same since 33AD), we create the appearance of new relationships with God by how we organize ourselves to refuse certain things He has given us.

I think that covers them all.
 
W

webchatter

Guest
#8
#8
I'm sure this group has no specialty or corner on the market of prophetic dreams. However any Charismatic church or organization is more aware of, & accepting dreams as words from God. Hence, they would tally the dreams, & proclaim the dreams that were dreamed the most.
Yes there is Scripture to confirm this occurs. The problem is, that other denominations do not record or tally dreams. Nor do other denominations/members believe they recieve messages from God in their sleep, so they probably don't even speak of their dreams to anyone. So I guess the charismatic movement has an advantage, but they don't have any more prophetic dreams than any other denomination.
Job. 33:14-17- "FOR GOD SPEAKETH ONCE,YEA TWICE,YET MAN PERCIEVETH IT NOT. 15-IN A DREAM,IN A VISION OF THE NIGHT, WHEN DEEP SLEEP FALLETH UPON MEN, IN SLUMBERINGS UPON THE BED; 16- THEN HE OPENETH THE EARS OF MEN, AND SEALETH THEIR INSTRUCTION".
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#9
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#9
"...and related theories":D


1still_waters said:
So I was looking at a website that roasts on the NAR.
They were making light of a 1999 article in Charisma magazine that was foretelling of future terrorist attacks and a war against Islam by America.

Funny thing is, three years later, 911 happened and then began the war on terror.
Just being objective here.
Thoughts?
link-->Christian Fortune Tellers Never Get it Right, Either
Click to expand...
serious?:)

easy as 1, 2, 3.

1. israel/neocons did 9-11 (1st active step in taking Greater Israel per Talmud) and blamed it on 'islam'. goal: get the US to take the region down (planned 20 years in advance).....christian zionism/dispensationalism was already in place - presto

2. rick joyner, strang and the clan are occultists/kabbalists and are in on it.

3. principle in occult (magik) - 'revelation of the method' (telling cryptically in advance what will happen)

love zone.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#10
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#10
kenisyes said:
I spent almost 10 minutes looking all this up. So I will make a statement, and then everyone can disagree.

Nothing new has ever been started in the Body of Christ (including these movements in the OP, Christian TV, and this website), other than by the mechanism in I Cor. 12:28. Understood correctly, in each case, we have seen the action, in order, of apostle, prophet, teacher, works of power, etc. Most people do not recognize the operation when they see it. This is because many churches have found it easier to teach that these ministries are not operative. The teaching became so pervasive during the middle ages that the definitions were forgotten, but are slowly being rediscovered now (hence the movements). This means that our whole definition of ministry and fitness for ministry is flawed, cessationism is simply factually untrue, dispensationalism is our imagination (other the second coming and those specific related events, which includes the return of the Jews to Israel, God has treated us the same since 33AD), we create the appearance of new relationships with God by how we organize ourselves to refuse certain things He has given us.

I think that covers them all.
Click to expand...
10 minutes, kenisyes?

yep. i disagree:)
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#12
#12
the way this all has gone today i feel like a goyim
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#13
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#13
kenisyes said:
Gee, ten posts, and we still don't have a discussion going.
Click to expand...
re: the kansas city crackpots and rick joyner knight of malta NAR prophets -

zone said:
1. israel/neocons did 9-11 (1st active step in taking Greater Israel per Talmud) and blamed it on 'islam'. goal: get the US to take the region down (planned 20 years in advance).....christian zionism/dispensationalism was already in place - presto

2. rick joyner, strang and the clan are occultists/kabbalists and are in on it.

3. principle in occult (magik) - 'revelation of the method' (telling cryptically in advance what will happen)

love zone.
Click to expand...
discuss:)
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#16
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,159
113
United Kingdom
#16
Personally, I think Zionism et al, is based on shaky grouind..that is Dispensationalism..that of the imaginitive minds of Darby popularised in the schofield study bible - which has led to the likes of left behind..mind you they are good fiction work and in my opinion fiction like dispensationalism. When I read through Scripture I don't see different dispensations.. I see covenant relationship. which culminates in the true Israel/Israelite (Jesus) which all the OT typifies or points too.
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#17
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#17
1still_waters said:
So I was looking at a website that roasts on the NAR.
They were making light of a 1999 article in Charisma magazine that was foretelling of future terrorist attacks and a war against Islam by America.

Funny thing is, three years later, 911 happened and then began the war on terror.
Just being objective here.
Thoughts?
link-->Christian Fortune Tellers Never Get it Right, Either
Click to expand...
A recent issue of Charisma magazine (April 1999) featured a full-page report that was nothing more than a “Christianized” version of what one might expect from the secular and godless supermarket tabloids. The Charisma article, entitled “Prophets Warn That United States Faces Threat of War, Islamic Terrorism,” reported on a January “distress call” from “modern-day prophets.” The band of 18 leaders, who met “behind closed doors,” included Wagner, Joyner and Paul Cain. According to the magazine, this oracle of impending judgment was further endorsed by others in the prophetic movement, including Bickle (of Kansas City Fellowship fame), revivalist Tommy Tenney, and Vineyard pastor James Ryle.
Click to expand...
Soooo much I'd like to say........ If you investigate these guys in red thoroughly, and maybe some of the others, you'd find other reasons besides spiritual ones how that they came up with this "prophecy". That's all I'm saying.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#18
#18
Stephen63 said:
Soooo much I'd like to say........ If you investigate these guys in red thoroughly, and maybe some of the others, you'd find other reasons besides spiritual ones how that they came up with this "prophecy". That's all I'm saying.
Click to expand...
I see Stephen has entered the thread...



:p
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#20
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#20
Stephen63 said:
Soooo much I'd like to say........ If you investigate these guys in red thoroughly, and maybe some of the others, you'd find other reasons besides spiritual ones how that they came up with this "prophecy". That's all I'm saying.
Click to expand...
Quote:
A recent issue of Charisma magazine (April 1999) featured a full-page report that was nothing more than a “Christianized” version of what one might expect from the secular and godless supermarket tabloids. The Charisma article, entitled “Prophets Warn That United States Faces Threat of War, Islamic Terrorism,” reported on a January “distress call” from “modern-day prophets.” The band of 18 leaders, who met “behind closed doors,” included Wagner, Joyner and Paul Cain. According to the magazine, this oracle of impending judgment was further endorsed by others in the prophetic movement, including Bickle (of Kansas City Fellowship fame), revivalist Tommy Tenney, and Vineyard pastor James Ryle.


:)

are they real prophets, stephen?
 
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