I needs some help with the "Antichrist" prophecies.

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Elizabeth619

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
First off I want to say HEYYYY YALL!!!! I'm back! *evil grin*

Second off.... I need help. Here is the story..

So, I'm dating this guy. He is pretty cool, but we got in to the discussion of Obama and the whole antichrist deal. He firmly believes Obama is the antichrist. I do not.

He told me to prove to him he is not. I gave him scripture. Told him of the actual prophecies, and he still doesn't accept this.

So....... I am asking you fine people for help(I'm apparently desperate to ask people on here because yall like to argue)

I need evidence the Antichrist is not our president, and we are not about to be raptured December 21.

This is also not a thread to argue. I am seriously asking for help. If you believe Obama is the antichrist then please move on. I need evidence he is NOT.

If arguments do begin I will ask for your posts to be deleted. Don't know if they will, but I will not respond to you for the sake of fighting.
 
Hi Elizabeth,

I think what your asking for is nearly impossible. It will be impossible to not generate an argument. Also dont you want this information for the sake of winning an argument ? : )

I could probabaly help you with this but you would need to be much more specific as to why he believes that ? You would have to address what is most influencing his ideaology. If you ask me someone who believes Obama is "the anti christ" might need medicine not reasoning. lol
 
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The only place "antichrist" is used in the bible is the first and second epistles of John.

John identifies Antichrist as anyone who denies Jesus came in the flesh or anyone who denies the Father and the Son.

antichrist - Online Bible Study Tools www. biblestudytools.com/search/?q=antichrist&c=&t=kjv&ps=10&s=Bibles

Does Obama deny the Father and the Son? I don't see how Obama can be Antichrist.
 
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Elizabeth619 said:
First off I want to say HEYYYY YALL!!!! I'm back! *evil grin*

Second off.... I need help. Here is the story..

So, I'm dating this guy. He is pretty cool, but we got in to the discussion of Obama and the whole antichrist deal. He firmly believes Obama is the antichrist. I do not.

He told me to prove to him he is not. I gave him scripture. Told him of the actual prophecies, and he still doesn't accept this.

So....... I am asking you fine people for help(I'm apparently desperate to ask people on here because yall like to argue)

I need evidence the Antichrist is not our president, and we are not about to be raptured December 21.

This is also not a thread to argue. I am seriously asking for help. If you believe Obama is the antichrist then please move on. I need evidence he is NOT.

If arguments do begin I will ask for your posts to be deleted. Don't know if they will, but I will not respond to you for the sake of fighting.
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Could you ask any easier question than this? This is low hanging fruit. And anyone replying to this looking for a debate, I'm not replying back. I'm set in my ways, and don't need to get in any tar baby debates with message board folks on this topic.

Beth, key in on the words I put in BIG.

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

Ok, Beth.

Revelation was written before 100 AD.

President Obama became president in 2008 AD.

There is nothing shortly or near about an anti-Christ arising almost 2000 years later.

Now he may offer some semantic ways around shortly and near.
Just ask him, well if God meant to say literally shortly and near, how else would he have said it, other than by using these words so close by each other!?!

I'm sure your friend is all about a "literal" interpretation of Revelation.
If he is, then he's pretty much stuck with taking short and near, as short and near.

And again, you message board tar baby debaters, I'm not replying back.
I believe what I believe, so no need gettin stuck in your tar by engaging.

I bid you adieu.
ellogovnah128608743108413295.jpg
 
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As far as this aspect..

and we are not about to be raptured December 21.
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36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,[e] but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour[f] your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

Now if there is a literal rapture, followed by a seven year period, followed by the return of Jesus, well that would pretty much allow someone to be able to calculate his return now wouldn't it?

I mean think about it.

Everyone disappears.
Once everyone disappears you can start counting down from seven!

Well if no one knows when he'll return, how can there be a rapture followed by a seven year tribulation, followed by a return?

Such a belief makes his return totally calculatable.
And he said it's not calculatable.
 
And Beth, if he tries saying the verses below are about a silent "rapture" before some supposed 7 year tribulation, point out to him that the word RETURN is in the context. A rapture followed by a RETURN seven years later, well it isn't a return!

36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,[e] but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour[f] your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
Click to expand...
 
Hmm i see we have to work fast
or Elizabeth619 wont be getting
any Christmas presents.
 
for a dispie i think from their understanding they just have to read
a little further where it states(according to their understanding)
that the Lord wont return until after the man of sin is revealed. 2 thess 2:3

That at least will put him past the pretrib rapture idear.
and send him shopping :)
 
Whereas Obama has an interesting spirit of lawlessness about him that might suggest to some that he is the Antichrist, I think if we look at Daniel and 1 and 2 John and Revelation, we'll see that the spirit of antichrist has been alive and kicking ever since John mentions it in his letters, in the first century. Satan, of course is behind this spirit and 'person' of lawlessness, for Satan himself is lawlessness. Satan himself helped in the fall at the garden when he suggested that man could disobey God and not die. So really, that spirit of antichrist has been around from the beginning.

I know that the popular belief in mainstream Christianity is to think that an Antichrist figure is going to arise at some point in the future, sign some kind of 7-year peace treaty with Israel and break that treaty with Isreal 3 1/2 years down the road. Of course, there is also a theory running rampant that a rapture (some will say a secret one) of the church will occur BEFORE the 7 year tribulation begins.

I believe that people get that idea from a misinterpretation of the 70 weeks prophecy, found in Daniel 9. I believe that the prohecy is actually talking about Jesus Himself, who confirmed the new covenant (they call peace treaty) with Israel, during their last 7 years of the time that was alloted to them to be God's exclusive chosen people. After that last week of the 70 weeks (490 years between the rebuilding of the city of Jerusalem and it's temple after the Babylonian captivity, the gospel was opened up to the gentiles as well.) The prophecy does state that the people of the prince to come will be the abomination that causes desolation to Jerusalem, destroying the city and the temple. Jesus talks of this coming destruction in Matthew 24 and corresponding verses in Luke. Was that prophecy fulfilled or is it yet in the future, as many people today claim?

Interestingly, the apostles wrote their letters to the churches with a certain sence of urgency... saying things like 'it is the last hour' and so forth. When we first look at that, we might think that they are speaking of our times, but we are living almost 2000 years down the road from when they were! Could it mean something else? Paul talked about the day of the Lord and how it would not come until the falling away happened first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, but something was restraining it. John speaks of the antichrist as a spirit that was among them, that it had departed from the true faith and went out from them. Ok, so Paul and Peter were both martyred in Rome sometime in the mid '60's AD. A chart of Popes for the catholic church has the first pope being Peter, followed by a person named Linus in the mid 60's AD, around the same time or just after Paul was martyred. It is interesting that the Roman armies, which Luke actually defines as the 'abomination of desolation', laid seige of Jerusalem for about 4 years before they eventually captured the city and destroyed the temple in 70 AD. This ends the 70 week prophecy. It was fulfilled. It also shows that the 'Antichrist/Little Horn/Beast/Whore of Babylon' or the 'prince that was to come that would have abominations and desolations', began to grow in the mid 60's AD, around the deaths of Peter and Paul. Hmmm. The people of the prince to come was the Roman army. Daniel tells us that the little horn would come out of the 4th beast or empire, which is Rome. The little horn would be different from the other horns in various ways, and it's rising up would be mysterious. Babylon is referred to as being a 'whore' with a sign that says 'Mystery'. A little bit of research and study will show that these descriptions of the little horn/babylon/man of lawlessness, all fit one particular religious entity, the Holy Roman Catholic Church. For a lot of detail into this, you could check out the thread by Gotime on Daniel 7. He explains it quite thoroughly.

The rapture theory began taking root in the 1800's, but I cannot see how anyone can get the idea of a rapture of the church before a tribulation, causing Jesus to return not only a second time, but a third time as well. It seems that the 'Rapture', which is a word one won't find anywhere in scripture, has replaced the Resurrection, that Paul and Jesus and Peter speak of in the New Testament. One thing that the scriptures are clear about - the dead in Christ will be resurrected at His coming. 1 Cor. 15. When will that be? At the last day, according to Jesus, who spoke these words four times in the book of John
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
 
Disdame45 nice post. :)
I agreed with most of that but am pondering
on the last sentence of the 4th para.:)
 
1still_waters said:
As far as this aspect..

36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,[e] but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour[f] your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

Now if there is a literal rapture, followed by a seven year period, followed by the return of Jesus, well that would pretty much allow someone to be able to calculate his return now wouldn't it?

I mean think about it.

Everyone disappears.
Once everyone disappears you can start counting down from seven!

Well if no one knows when he'll return, how can there be a rapture followed by a seven year tribulation, followed by a return?

Such a belief makes his return totally calculatable.
And he said it's not calculatable.
Click to expand...

th
 
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